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Re: Flowers, Hetch Hetchy, and Condon Pt./Mt./Molehill

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avatar Flowers, Hetch Hetchy, and Condon Pt./Mt./Molehill
April 28, 2009 06:32AM
Last Weekend:



More here if interested:
https://picasaweb.google.com/yosemite.chick.on/Condon

There's a story behind all the hardware.... we're just trying to figure it out in more detail ...



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/29/2013 09:45AM by chick-on.
avatar Re: Flowers, Hetch Hetchy, and Condon Pt./Mt./Molehill
April 28, 2009 10:01AM
Really nice lighting on the last few pics! What were the night temps like?

B
avatar Re: Flowers, Hetch Hetchy, and Condon Pt./Mt./Molehill
April 28, 2009 10:57AM
Quote
Bee
What were the night temps like?

Temps at night were in the 40's. A little windy. Clouds went completely away by 9pm. Slept under the stars.
By morning I think it was down to right around 40. Not too bad.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/29/2013 09:53AM by chick-on.
avatar Re: Flowers, Hetch Hetchy, and Condon Pt./Mt./Molehill
April 28, 2009 11:16AM
So if you look at the pictures you can see some sand and some hardware and
footings for some structures.

If you are slightly interested in the history of Eleanor, Cherry, and Hetch Hetchy
you really want to find a copy of
"Hetch Hetchy and its Dam Railroad" by Wurm
a really really great book on the construction of the original dam, it's raising, and much more

Some of the pictures of HH Valley I think will break your heart.
Many I have not seen before.
They really raped the valley when they built the original structure.

Anyway, back to the pictures. I found in the book when they raised the dam:
"Sand for the concrete was dug from a deposit at Miguel Meadow, on the road
between Hetch Hetchy and Lake Eleanor, and carried by a three-mile aaerial
tramway to the aggregates plant at the dam."

Sand overflowed and created quite the anomoly on the land.
Check it out on Google Earth. Just look a little east of Gravel Pit Lake.
The line runs NW to SE towards O Dam.
You can really see the sand line. It turns out it is not an Alien Landing Strip.
O well... the truth is out there...
avatar Re: Flowers, Hetch Hetchy, and Condon Pt./Mt./Molehill
April 28, 2009 11:59AM
Did you have any skin reaction after contact with plant #4 and #5?


https://picasaweb.google.com/yosemite.chick.on/Condon



The cure for a fallacious argument is a better argument, not the suppression of ideas.
-- Carl Sagan




Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/29/2013 09:45AM by chick-on.
avatar Re: Flowers, Hetch Hetchy, and Condon Pt./Mt./Molehill
April 28, 2009 12:20PM
I'll give an answer and Dale will probably give one too. A few weeks ago we went down into Poopenaut Valley and pitched. Dale then proceeded to bushwhack his way up the north side of the valley towards Miguel Meadow looking for the old trail that was taken out of service in like 1882. He didn't find the trail but did find out that some of the best bushwhacking on the planet is right there out of Poopenaut Valley's north side. He did get to the top near the trail to North Mountain before heading back to camp. I guess he was gone for about 5 hours and we did maintain radio contact. He got back looking like he had been dragged through the famous brier patch. He did become very familiar with the yet to bear leaves stalks of pictures 4 & 5. His left nostril was still scabby last weekend. I don't know and don't want to know the details of any other hot spots on his person but I'm sure there were some.



Old Dude
avatar Re: Flowers, Hetch Hetchy, and Condon Pt./Mt./Molehill
April 28, 2009 05:01PM
Quote
mrcondron
....He did become very familiar with the yet to bear leaves stalks of pictures 4 & 5. His left nostril was still scabby last weekend. I don't know and don't want to know the details of any other hot spots on his person but I'm sure there were some.

One other link describing Poopenaut Valley hike mentions poison oak.
http://www.localhikes.com/Hikes/PoopenautValley_0000.asp



Trivia question: What is the relation between cashews and poison oak?



The cure for a fallacious argument is a better argument, not the suppression of ideas.
-- Carl Sagan
avatar Re: Flowers, Hetch Hetchy, and Condon Pt./Mt./Molehill
April 28, 2009 05:08PM
Quote
Frank Furter
Trivia question: What is the relation between cashews and poison oak?

Family: Anacardiaceae
avatar Re: Flowers, Hetch Hetchy, and Condon Pt./Mt./Molehill
April 28, 2009 05:27PM
Quote
eeek
Quote
Frank Furter
Trivia question: What is the relation between cashews and poison oak?

Family: Anacardiaceae

Yesss, but anything more? Why do we never * find cashews with shells?

* Ok, probably should say, rarely.



The cure for a fallacious argument is a better argument, not the suppression of ideas.
-- Carl Sagan
avatar Re: Flowers, Hetch Hetchy, and Condon Pt./Mt./Molehill
April 28, 2009 05:30PM
Quote
Frank Furter
Quote
eeek
Quote
Frank Furter
Trivia question: What is the relation between cashews and poison oak?

Family: Anacardiaceae

Yesss, but anything more? Why do we never * find cashews with shells?

* Ok, probably should say, rarely.

Because people would bitch about getting urushiol on their skin.
avatar Re: Flowers, Hetch Hetchy, and Condon Pt./Mt./Molehill
April 28, 2009 05:33PM
Quote
eeek
Quote
Frank Furter
Quote
eeek
Quote
Frank Furter
Trivia question: What is the relation between cashews and poison oak?

Family: Anacardiaceae

Yesss, but anything more? Why do we never * find cashews with shells?

* Ok, probably should say, rarely.

Because people would bitch about getting urushiol on their skin.

Does eeek get an A+, NOW, Mr. Furter???smoking smiley



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/28/2009 05:34PM by Bee.
avatar Re: Flowers, Hetch Hetchy, and Condon Pt./Mt./Molehill
April 28, 2009 05:40PM
I was wondering when Bee, the horticulturist, would appear on this thread.
Does it seem strange that urushiol can be removed from cashews without contaminating the kernel? In my experience, it seems hard to wash off Rhus related toxins, but maybe that is an urban myth propagated by the Boy Scouts.



The cure for a fallacious argument is a better argument, not the suppression of ideas.
-- Carl Sagan
avatar Re: Flowers, Hetch Hetchy, and Condon Pt./Mt./Molehill
April 28, 2009 05:46PM
I think that's an urban legend. My downfall was that I got back to the comfort of
Poopenaut Valley too late to jump into the river to wash off. Then the next day
humped it up the hill and... um... ah... quite possibly didn't even take a shower
until the NEXT day. (ok, squimies... remember... I got no problem stinking it up
for 7 days in a row w/o a hot shower...) So.. a weekend... hmmph! NO PROBLEM!
avatar Re: Flowers, Hetch Hetchy, and Condon Pt./Mt./Molehill
April 28, 2009 05:47PM
Quote
Frank Furter
I was wondering when Bee, the horticulturist, would appear on this thread.

I had to wait for everyone to hit the WIKI...didnt wanna spoil the funwink

Quote

Does it seem strange that urushiol can be removed from cashews without contaminating the kernel?

It seems that there is no limit to the amount of abuse that we are willing to put our food through...

(hey, are we the local ghosts...peekaboo I don't see you)(I never log out, so I didn't want my name to just hang on the marquee, forever)
avatar Re: Flowers, Hetch Hetchy, and Condon Pt./Mt./Molehill
April 28, 2009 05:29PM
>There is a reason this is one of the only places in Yosemite that has poison oak.

Uh... there is poison oak all the way to Wapama and beyond...
And in the Grand Cayon of the Tuolumne... from Pate to Muir Gorge...
and in Yosemite Valley... (Rockslides)
And all around Kolana Rock... (another story... winking smiley )

BUT.. man.. o... man... I hope to heck NOT in Indian Canyon!
Or this boy might just turn around and say no thanks!
(I've had it enough times when the brain finally decided it was time to recognize it!)
(Unfortunately I cannot recognize Poison Oak Twiggy)

It is the steepest trail in the park by far. Rivals Henry Coe for steepage.
If I recall correctly it was about 1300ft. in about 1 mile.

Trail was in great shape except for 1 major deadfall in late March when we went.

The up was music to my ears after the xcountry bush-wack-a-doodle-doo
to the largest pond south of Swamp Lake.

If you are in the HH area stop on Evergreen Rd. between Poop Mtn the knob
right after the road makes a near 360 turn. Hike up to that knob and there
are some nice views of the huge granite face below.
Late in the year... wanna try to hike from Poopenaut Valley to this gorge.
It's pretty impressive. However, I'm fairly certain I'll be regretting that one too...
avatar Re: Flowers, Hetch Hetchy, and Condon Pt./Mt./Molehill
April 28, 2009 12:14PM
Regarding your flower, consider a Brodiaea species. Google that and see if it looks like your plant. Hard to tell the number of petals or stamen,pistil structure.



The cure for a fallacious argument is a better argument, not the suppression of ideas.
-- Carl Sagan
avatar Re: Flowers, Hetch Hetchy, and Condon Pt./Mt./Molehill
April 28, 2009 05:49PM
>are we the local ghosts...peekaboo I don't see you

I don't know about you... but my therapist said "at least make it LOOK like you are sane".
avatar Re: Flowers, Hetch Hetchy, and Condon Pt./Mt./Molehill
April 28, 2009 05:54PM
Quote
bill-e-g
>are we the local ghosts...peekaboo I don't see you

I don't know about you... but my therapist said "at least make it LOOK like you are sane".

Naw, mine said to just succumb to it and remove all doubt...
avatar Re: Flowers, Hetch Hetchy, and Condon Pt./Mt./Molehill
April 28, 2009 05:58PM
Was there ANY?

Rolling on floor laugh

and

Dancing GIrl
avatar Re: Flowers, Hetch Hetchy, and Condon Pt./Mt./Molehill
April 28, 2009 06:04PM
Quote
bill-e-g
Was there ANY?

Rolling on floor laugh

and

Dancing GIrl

It depends on which family member you ask moody smiley
avatar Re: Flowers, Hetch Hetchy, and Condon Pt./Mt./Molehill
April 28, 2009 07:17PM
All seriousness aside, the search function for the discussion forum does not bring up any discussion of poison-oak or "poison oak":

There is a lot of anecdotal (antidotal?) information on the internet. Found the following in Wilderness Medicine, 5th edition :

"The best approaches to prophylaxis come from an intimate understanding of the chemistry of urushiol and the biology of the weeds[53] and reside mainly in recognition and avoidance. Where this is not possible, protective clothing that is either disposable or washable should be worn. Wool is the best material to use as a protective barrier because it binds the allergen readily.[37] Clothing should be washed with detergent or, more preferably, bleach to inactivate urushiol. Tools and other inanimate objects are best cleaned with a dilute solution of bleach. Bleach rapidly inactivates urushiol, and organic solvents such as alcohol, gasoline, and acetone can extract it from contaminated surfaces. A commercially available solvent is Tecnu, sold OTC, but this is merely an inexpensive petroleum solvent sold at a high price. It should not be used for therapy. An excellent choice is rubbing (isopropyl) alcohol, which should be applied liberally for decontamination and followed by liberal use of water wash-off to avoid spreading the oil on the skin. Care should be taken to limit contact time with the skin, particularly with children, who may be susceptible to transcutaneous alcohol toxicity. Use of soap is inferior to better solvents. The newer topical agent Zanfel has been shown to experimentally decrease urushiol-induced contact dermatitis. It is a mixture of alcohol solubles and anionic surfactants that binds to the urushiol antigen and renders it unable to induce an allergic reaction. If applied soon enough after exposure, it has the potential to decrease urushiol-induced allergic contact dermatitis.[40] The idea of using barrier preparations has become popular again, even though in the past, such creams and ointments proved disappointing.[144] The current favorite, an organoclay called Ivy-Block, was developed to protect forestry workers against these weeds during national firefighting escapades.[55] This approach was confirmed in a multicenter study.[117] The lotion can be obtained readily from a pharmacist or by major marketers. Oak-N-Ivy-Armor (Tec Laboratories) is a product marketed to be used as a preventative. It actively binds urushiol and keeps it from contacting the skin. Stokogard outdoor cream, composed of a linoleic ester dimer,[145] was removed from the market for lack of U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA) approval but is still available in industrial supply houses that are not regulated. When the cream is first applied, it has a foul smell (like dead fish), resulting from release of the ester. The odor disappears in about 20 minutes, and the cream acts like a barrier to delay the penetration of urushiol oil. It must be washed off in 4 to 6 hours for protection."



The cure for a fallacious argument is a better argument, not the suppression of ideas.
-- Carl Sagan
avatar Re: Flowers, Hetch Hetchy, and Condon Pt./Mt./Molehill
April 28, 2009 07:23PM
My last encounter with poison oak was while taking a photo. I looked down to see what was annoying my leg and found some pretty, three lobed leaves. Washed right away but still broke out.
avatar Re: Flowers, Hetch Hetchy, and Condon Pt./Mt./Molehill
April 28, 2009 08:34PM
I wish poison ivy was as easy to identify as poison oak, before an exposure.



The cure for a fallacious argument is a better argument, not the suppression of ideas.
-- Carl Sagan
Re: Flowers, Hetch Hetchy, and Condon Pt./Mt./Molehill
April 28, 2009 09:58PM
That's a very common species, elegant brodiae. Will see far more at lower elevation like Red Hills.

With most people, it takes just one ignorant bout with poison oak to make enough of an impression that they avoid it like the plague the rest of their lives. And any real California kid brought up in rural areas learns what it look like and how to avoid it by sight. Note one can readily pick up the itchy oil in the winter when it has no leaves by merely touching the bare branches, twigs, or dried and fallen brown leaves.
avatar Re: Flowers, Hetch Hetchy, and Condon Pt./Mt./Molehill
April 29, 2009 04:10AM
Quote
DavidSenesac
With most people, it takes just one ignorant bout with poison oak to make enough of an impression that they avoid it like the plague the rest of their lives..

Yes but on the issue of poison-oak vs poison-ivy it still seems that "oak" is easier to identify than "ivy" . Ivy is not in California to my knowledge. CDC does indicate that Ivy can be found in Oregon and Washington however.

http://www.cdc.gov/niosh/topics/plants/

poison-ivy:



sumac:





The cure for a fallacious argument is a better argument, not the suppression of ideas.
-- Carl Sagan
avatar Re: Flowers, Hetch Hetchy, and Condon Pt./Mt./Molehill
April 29, 2009 08:51AM
I'm with Billy: It's when its leafless state that it's darn near impossible to avoid the Poison Oak. I have been very lucky to have been around it as much as I have and I have never had it...I hope to keep it that way!

B
avatar Re: Flowers, Hetch Hetchy, and Condon Pt./Mt./Molehill
April 29, 2009 07:47PM
Maybe this is interesting to others out there... It certainly is to me..

From "Hetch Hetchy and its Dam Railroad":
"When vacated by the contractor, the camp at O'Shaughnessy Dam
met full approval of the superintendent of Yosemite National Park. As
a result of sand dredging at Miguel Meadow, an artificial lake was
created; and when the area was cleaned and landscaped, a
permanent beauty spot resulted."

Some of the views in the book are a bit rose colored glasses... but
I'd sorta agree with him on the above statement.
I think they could have come up with a better name for the lake
than 'Gravel Pit Lake' though.

There are fish in the lake and it is ripe with all sorts of wildlife. I've even
seen a skunk there once. Swamp Lake, on the other hand, lacks any
fish... (however it was still fun boating on it in my trail boat) smiling smiley )
avatar Re: Flowers, Hetch Hetchy, and Condon Pt./Mt./Molehill
April 29, 2009 08:13PM
Quote

Some of the views in the book are a bit rose colored glasses... but
I'd sorta agree with him on the above statement.
I think they could have come up with a better name for the lake
than 'Gravel Pit Lake' though.

There are fish in the lake and it is ripe with all sorts of wildlife. I've even
seen a skunk there once. Swamp Lake, on the other hand, lacks any
fish... (however it was still fun boating on it in my trail boat) smiling smiley )

Are either of these lakes of the quality to swim in?

How big are they?

B
avatar Re: Flowers, Hetch Hetchy, and Condon Pt./Mt./Molehill
April 29, 2009 10:23PM
Quote
Bee
Are either of these lakes of the quality to swim in?

You'd freeze! The water is below 80 F.
avatar Re: Flowers, Hetch Hetchy, and Condon Pt./Mt./Molehill
April 30, 2009 12:20AM
Quote
eeek
Quote
Bee
Are either of these lakes of the quality to swim in?

You'd freeze! The water is below 80 F.

Foged aboud id!!
avatar Re: Flowers, Hetch Hetchy, and Condon Pt./Mt./Molehill
April 29, 2009 09:54PM
Both the lakes are relatively small.
Picture #16 is Gravel Pit Lake (there is a trail right to it... wink )
Gravel Pit has a large number of aquatic plants in it. Later in the year
they really choke up the lake. Over the years it has gotten progressively
worse. I wouldn't recommend swimming in it myself. If you've ever
gotten your feet caught up in weeds... not fun... happened to me in
the Hudson River... since then... I'm a whole lot more careful...

Swamp Lake is off trail and surrounded entirely by trees and the area around
it is fairly steep into the lake. The lake itself definitely has a swampy eery feeling to it.
It doesn't really have any good places to camp around it and is rarely visited.
I know when Mike and I went there we were camped on a slope. I was into
fishing then and had the trail boat in it ... it doesn't have nearly the amount of
aquatic plants in it (I don't recall many at all).. but I doubt you'll want to do too much
swimming in it.

Definitely need to go back and check it out again sometime. Only been to Swamp
once... and it was before we started taking pictures... so... it's all from my noggin..
Anyone have any different thoughts about it that has been there recently?

Gravel Pit ... really like it... lots of great flat spots around it to hang out... alot of
dragonflies and other insects to keep your interest... (at least they do me..)
avatar Re: Flowers, Hetch Hetchy, and Condon Pt./Mt./Molehill
April 30, 2009 12:35PM
Dale,

You swam in the Hudson River? Were you the same color when you got out?

Jim
avatar Re: Flowers, Hetch Hetchy, and Condon Pt./Mt./Molehill
April 30, 2009 04:10PM
Quote
tomdisco
You swam in the Hudson River? Were you the same color when you got out?

I was wondering if anyone was going to mention anything.
My therapist says that it quite possibly balanced out my chemical imbalance.
Hey with the whole "green" movement I just look at it as I've been way
ahead of the curve for years!
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