http://www.helenair.com/articles/2009/05/02/state/101st_090502_wolf.txt

Wolves move to YNP headquarters, den near Mammoth

By BRETT FRENCH - Billings Gazette - 05/02/09
BILLINGS — The sound of howling wolves and wolf sightings are becoming regular occurrences at Yellowstone National Park’s headquarters in Mammoth, Wyo. The wolves have even made nighttime elk kills in the backyards of park employee housing.

This spring, a pack of wolves already conditioned to humans has moved from the park’s interior to near its Northeast Entrance, just south of Gardiner.

“It’s an intensive management situation,” said Doug Smith, the park’s lead wolf biologist. “They’re a habituated pack. Photographers love them. But we’re seeking out opportunities to teach them a lesson — that walking through a developed area or near people is not a good idea.”

The pack of four wolves — three black males and one gray female — have denned just a quarter-mile east of Mammoth. As a result, wolves have been spotted around the small community — the same place the U.S. Army set up shop in 1891 to protect the park. The town includes the historic Mammoth Hot Springs Hotel, a visitor center, shops, government offices and employee housing.

The pack migrated from Canyon off and on throughout the winter, Smith said, referring to the area around the Grand Canyon of the Yellowstone. The small pack is likely the remnants of the nearby Hayden pack, which was a favorite with tourists in Hayden Valley because they were so visible.

But the Hayden pack’s alpha male and female were killed by the nearby Mollie’s pack from Pelican Valley. Confined to the east by the bison-killing wolves of Mollie’s — some of the biggest wolves in the park — and the Gibbon Meadows pack to the west, the Hayden pack was under constant threat. Living close to humans, where the other wolves didn’t venture, helped them to survive.......

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The cure for a fallacious argument is a better argument, not the suppression of ideas.
-- Carl Sagan

Brett French of, "The Billings Gazette" AKA "Gazoo" frequently writes some fantastic articles for a pretty good newspaper. I believe I shared with him the link for this forum some time in the past. The Gazette also has an Outdoor section every Thursday that is well worth consulting. I didn't think to first look up the URL for the paper, but I'm sure you can find it on Google. A lot of Yellowstone news in that fine publication.

Also on the topic of wolves, when Canadian wolves were introduced to Yellowstone, a brilliant cartoonist who worked for the "Gazette" at the time penned a cartoon showing two wolves in Yellowstone. One of the wolves uttered the howl, "Aarooo-ay?!" and the other wolf asked, "Aaroo...AY!" You're not from around here, are ya!?" I believe that all sides of the wolf issue got a much-needed chuckle out of that cartoon.

Ahem...while on the topic of reintroduced animals, I have believed for years that the grizzly bear needs to be returned to Yosemite. Just kidding, of course, but can't you just envision the debates?

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I have believed for years that the grizzly bear needs to be returned to Yosemite.

The one on the state flag isn't enough?

Hiking is Yosemite does not compare to Yellowstone backcountry. There is a healthy anxiety that must accompany any person who enters the Yellowstone backcountry (and reinforced by the epidemic warning signs advising that "this is grizzly country" and safety cannot be guaranteed).

There is an aspect to the wolf issue that is a concern to me. Certainly wild dogs and hyenas in africa must attack humans on occasion. Wolves will attack domesticated dogs and may engage in opportunistic wanton killing (domesticated sheep,etc). I just wonder when there will be an attack on the isolated human for territorial or feeding reasons. I think that will really change the debate. I enjoy the wolves in Yellowstone, but it certainly seems like they have been glorified and idolized to the extent that they are not seen as potentially dangerous (to humans).

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The cure for a fallacious argument is a better argument, not the suppression of ideas.
-- Carl Sagan

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Frank Furter

There is an aspect to the wolf issue that is a concern to me. ... I enjoy the wolves in Yellowstone, but it certainly seems like they have been glorified and idolized to the extent that they are not seen as potentially dangerous (to humans).

Good. People that stop respecting/fearing wild animals because they've been idolized just provides a chance for some Darwinism to take place.

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dqniel

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Frank Furter

There is an aspect to the wolf issue that is a concern to me. ... I enjoy the wolves in Yellowstone, but it certainly seems like they have been glorified and idolized to the extent that they are not seen as potentially dangerous (to humans).

Good. People that stop respecting/fearing wild animals because they've been idolized just provides a chance for some Darwinism to take place.

I am not specifically concerned about the people; in these conflicts the animals lose more than humans typically. These sort of dangers are inherent in the wilderness and why the thrill rides at amusement parks have little appeal to me. Those rides would be more thrilling if there were say, one out of 200 people who got randomly hurt in the riding process.

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The cure for a fallacious argument is a better argument, not the suppression of ideas.
-- Carl Sagan

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Frank Furter
Hiking is Yosemite does not compare to Yellowstone backcountry. There is a healthy anxiety that must accompany any person who enters the Yellowstone backcountry (and reinforced by the epidemic warning signs advising that "this is grizzly country" and safety cannot be guaranteed).

There is an aspect to the wolf issue that is a concern to me. Certainly wild dogs and hyenas in africa must attack humans on occasion. Wolves will attack domesticated dogs and may engage in opportunistic wanton killing (domesticated sheep,etc). I just wonder when there will be an attack on the isolated human for territorial or feeding reasons. I think that will really change the debate. I enjoy the wolves in Yellowstone, but it certainly seems like they have been glorified and idolized to the extent that they are not seen as potentially dangerous (to humans).

FF,

It seems like everyone (but me of course) has seen a bear in Yosemite, and the occurance is so frequent, that everyone has learned that their initial "fear" was unfounded,(i.e., reverse conditioning towards those pesky bears) How often DO you hear of chance encounters with Grizzley Bears, and IS it really something that hangs in the back of your mind?

Bee

My brother-in-law and I hiked in Denali NP a few years ago. Believe me you are always aware of the grizzlies. There were 10-20 bears nibbling grass within sight of the road during the bus ride to our drop off point. The bus driver stopped so we all could get pictures and the bears didn't even look up even though a few of them were within 100' of the road. The back country zone where we were permitted was all open tundra and gravel bars. While hiking (no trails, all cross country) through brushy areas we were sure to make a little human type noise hoping to give the bear that was just around the corner a chance to move off before you came up on it. I always let my b-i-l go first as he was 6 months older and a natural leader. We stored our bear cans 100 yards from out tents and from the cooking spot. The cooking spot was 100 yards from the tents and the bear can depot. We always faced each other while cooking and eating so we had 360 coverage. It was recommended that you wear different clothes while cooking and not bring them back to the sleeping area after eating. We didn't go to that extreme as we didn't cook stinky food. We did pitch against a cliff to reduce the bear approach angles. Sleep came slowly. We high-fived when we were picked up by the bus for having survived without even a single bear bite or mauling. Then there were the moose.

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Old Dude

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Bee

It seems like everyone (but me of course) has seen a bear in Yosemite, and the occurance is so frequent, that everyone has learned that their initial "fear" was unfounded,(i.e., reverse conditioning towards those pesky bears) How often DO you hear of chance encounters with Grizzley Bears, and IS it really something that hangs in the back of your mind?

Bee

I feel like I am frightening you unnecessarily. Not my intention. My comment stems from recently hiking in Yosemite vs Yellowstone and Glacier. I found myself totally unconcerned about hiking alone in Yosemite vs those other parks. In both Yellowstone and Glacier, there are often signs like this:

http://gonw.about.com/od/wyomingpictures/ig/Lake-Yellowstone-Photo-Gallery/Bear-Activity-Warning-Sign-.htm

which give one pause. However I have camped alone in the Rockies and the contacts are very rare. Even when you try to walk quietly, trying to see wildlife, you usually miss seeing bears. My experience is that even grizzly bears, given the choice, will choose to avoid humans. My closest encounter was in Glacier when I walked (probably within 20 feet) past a grizzly in some thick vegetation and only realized it when I heard a crash behind me as the bear took off in the other direction. I don't know how to answer the "how often" question. I have had 4 "close" encounters in the last 10 years and never used bear spray and never felt threatened by the bear. Many people never see bears in the wild. Mostly in Yellowstone, they are seen from a kilometer or more away or you just see the rump disappearing into the trees as you drive along. I would be more concerned about a sprained ankle, burn from a stove, or cut from a pocketknife than from bears. In Alaska, more blood is reported lost to mosquitos than to bears in the wild.

When you think about it, the rangers usually travel alone in the woods and they seem to do just fine. Noise helps. However, if you play music by "Me First and the Gimmie Gimmies" you may be attacked by ANGRY wildlife.

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The cure for a fallacious argument is a better argument, not the suppression of ideas.
-- Carl Sagan



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/03/2009 05:16PM by Frank Furter.

Say, do I read the hand written part of the sign, correctly?: Carcass in area!

(at least it doesn't say "human" in front of carcass)

eeee-yew!

This sign would certainly catch my attention!

(It does from here!)

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Bee
Say, do I read the hand written part of the sign, correctly?: Carcass in area!

That's what I see.

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(at least it doesn't say "human" in front of carcass)

And the sign is there to keep it that way!

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This sign would certainly catch my attention!

It caught mine. Which is why I took the picture.

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Bee
Say, do I read the hand written part of the sign, correctly?: Carcass in area!

(at least it doesn't say "human" in front of carcass)

It is a little hard to read, I would like to think it is just alerting wild flower enthusiasts that behind the sign somewhere there is, in bloom, a Crocus.

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The cure for a fallacious argument is a better argument, not the suppression of ideas.
-- Carl Sagan

Ah, yes, Crocus sativa that little bulb with something extra...and what would be so special about the Crocus sativa , FF? (if it is sativa)

B



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/03/2009 10:56PM by Bee.

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Bee
...and what would be so special about the Crocus sativa , FF? (if it is sativa)

B

(Sighing deeply)..... carcass <=> crocus; a pun (bearly).

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The cure for a fallacious argument is a better argument, not the suppression of ideas.
-- Carl Sagan

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Frank Furter
(bearly).

Groan!

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Frank Furter

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Bee
...and what would be so special about the Crocus sativa , FF? (if it is sativa)

B

(Sighing deeply)..... carcass <=> crocus; a pun (bearly).

It's a QUIZ,, SILLY!

(believe it or not I GOT YOUR JOKE! )

BUT...

Seeing that you brought up a very special little bulb, I wann know if YOU know why it's so darned special

B

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Bee
I wann know if YOU know why it's so darned special

Is a stigma involved?

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eeek

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Bee
I wann know if YOU know why it's so darned special

Is a stigma involved?

Yes, Master Eeeek, but you did not raise yer hand, nor were you called apon, so you have to go back to yer seat (and quit giving Mr. FF any clues )

B

Bee and Eeek,
It sounds like you are trying to spice up the conversation by dangling a carotenoid in front of me. I only know what I read in Wikipedia (and the journal Experimental Biology and Medicine 227:20-25 (2002))
about saffron and what I hear in the 60's tune "Mellow Yellow" by Donovan, which makes some people mad.

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The cure for a fallacious argument is a better argument, not the suppression of ideas.
-- Carl Sagan



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/04/2009 05:03AM by Frank Furter.

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Frank Furter
Bee and Eeek,
It sounds like you are trying to spice up the conversation by dangling a carotenoid in front of me. I only know what I read in Wikipedia (and the journal Experimental Biology and Medicine 227:20-25 (2002))
about saffron and what I hear in the 60's tune "Mellow Yellow" by Donovan, which makes some people mad.

Yes the single stigma of the Crocus sativa is collected and used for the brightly colored spice, Saffron (the main ingredient to risotto). It is not unusual, due to the low yield per plant, for the cost of Saffron to be higher per Oz than gold. ALSO, it is only the the saffron crocus that is used for the spice, other crocus stigma are not edible (probably the origin of the Donovan song)

B

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Bee
[, Saffron (the main ingredient to risotto).
B

Isn't the main ingredient, risotto?

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The cure for a fallacious argument is a better argument, not the suppression of ideas.
-- Carl Sagan

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Frank Furter

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Bee
[, Saffron (the main ingredient to risotto).
B

Isn't the main ingredient, risotto?

*groan*

Just a note: One is probably 100K times more likely to be killed getting to a man-eating wolf than actually being man-eaten by that wolf considering that only a small handfull of US people have been killed by wolves in the last two hundred years while we have killed well over one million people on the roads. And let's do bring the grizzly back to Yosemite. It'll still be safer than driving but won't feel like it during dinner prep in the back country!

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Old Dude

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mrcondron
Just a note: One is probably 100K times more likely to be killed getting to a man-eating wolf than actually being man-eaten by that wolf considering that only a small handfull of US people have been killed by wolves in the last two hundred years while we have killed well over one million people on the roads. And let's do bring the grizzly back to Yosemite. It'll still be safer than driving but won't feel like it during dinner prep in the back country!

Maybe more than 100K.
We could just put a bunch of webcams in the parks and on the animals themselves. We could then all stay home at our computers!

There are huge sections of Yellowstone closed each year to allow the griz some peace. I doubt that sort of Sierra closure would be tolerated by the hiking/backpacking public. Wolves might be an option in Yosemite, but without elk and moose, there would be tremendous pressure on coyotes, goats, sheep and deer populations. Wolves are even known to eat swans during molting.

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The cure for a fallacious argument is a better argument, not the suppression of ideas.
-- Carl Sagan

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Frank Furter
We could then all stay home at our computers!
Wolves might be an option in Yosemite, but without elk and moose, there would be tremendous pressure on coyotes, goats, sheep and deer populations.

This whole staying home on the compooper... aint cutting it for me this weekend!
Goats! Bahhhh... no!!!!

With regards to Grizzlies... only been to Yellowstone and Glacier once each. Week each.
Only saw a Black Bear at Yellowstone and... like all the wildlife there.. there was a huge traffic jam..
I got all hot and bothered... and 'WHAT!... NO!!! Not a stinking Black Bear! Whoopidy Poo!'.
(my dad was excited tho... so... I guess it was O.K)
The wife and I went 'hunting' for Moose and Grizz on two separate days in the SW portion of the
park ... Bechler River one day and Horseshoe and xcountry to Robinson Lake on another...
and .. nothing!

Glacier... we saw Grizzlies on 3 separate days... Ranger didn't even believe that we saw one
at Avalanche Lake... had to show him a picture to prove it... and the ever elesuive Moose!
I was sooo friggin happy about that! The Griz we saw were up on the hills... on two occasions...
not giving a poo about us. The people I talked to who seemed to have experience
backpacking said they never used Bear Spray (I refused to buy any....) (if a bear charged me
I would a) poop my pants b) pee my pants c) shriek like a little girl d) become catatonic
e) spray bear spray in my face followed by the wifies)
Plus... I just let the wifie hike in front some...
All that being said I can honestly say that it didn't really bother us or affect us that much...
in more times than once it just annoyed the crap out of me. (last thing I want to hear
for a mile is 2 little girls singing some stupid song to 'scare' the bears)
It's like the dingle bells... I wanna shoot those people. Fortunately for me... the wife is
usually blowing the smoke off the barrell before I can even get my hands on it.

Anyway, that's my story. And why I love the Sierra. Hike alone. Not too much to worry about.
Camp wherever you want. Sleep with bear can close enough to you to not have to
come out o bag for dinner OR breakfast!

Hope you enjoyed my little story as much as I enjoyed typing it. Now ... I need to go eat some breakfast.


One more thing. Ask some people what's on the California Flag. I'll bet they haven't any idea
its the California Grizzly. And it's also a good chance they have no idea that we used to have Grizz.

Just looked up the name:
Ursus arctos horribilis

Love it.

I don't know much about cooking (see Backcountry Food thread)... but isn't the main ingredient of risotto rice?
I know I've heard Chef Ramsey go on about Donkey Butts... but I'm fairly certain that isn't in risotto...

(and anyone new to this forum... you have to take the good with the bad)

I'm hoping this will be a photo-op next week.