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Re: Question for those who hike

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avatar Question for those who hike
May 06, 2009 01:26PM
i saw on tv today a hiker putting moleskin on the bottom of his foot (which i understand why), along with some kind of foot powder... is putting foot powder normal? this is something new to me... what is it's purpose? and what kind of powder? (my feet are always HOT, especially when i hike)

thanks for any help



Like I always say, "if you can't laugh at yourself, let me do it".

My Yosemite Blog: http://yosemiteforrest.blogspot.com/
avatar Re: Question for those who hike
May 06, 2009 01:29PM
I never noticed a lot of foot powder use when I was leading backpacks.
avatar Re: Question for those who hike
May 06, 2009 01:44PM
It makes your feel not stink so much.
avatar Re: Question for those who hike
May 06, 2009 01:47PM
Ok... seriously I have no idea. Just the goat being the goat.

Um... I don't use moleskin or powder.
Just sock liners and hiking socks.

My recommendations are:
a) don't let your feet get wet and leave them that way
b) take your shoes and socks off every once in awhile and let the liners dry out some...
and your footies dry some too..
c) don't get blisters on day 1 / mile 4 of the JMT (hi Mike) smiling smiley
Re: Question for those who hike
May 06, 2009 02:27PM
The brand I've typically seen used is Gold Bond.

Taken from their website..."It absorbs moisture, controls foot odor and odor-causing bacteria, provides maximum strength itch relief, and cools and soothes irritated skin."

Never used it myself, sock liners are fine.
avatar Re: Question for those who hike
May 06, 2009 03:03PM
Quote
cornbread
The brand I've typically seen used is Gold Bond.

Their ads annoy me. Therefore I will not buy their products.
avatar Re: Question for those who hike
May 06, 2009 02:36PM
I think the main goal of hiking foot protection is two fold:
1. prevent point pressure effects by pading areas that receive constant pressure (pre-existing foot problems, bottom of feet, bunions, etc)
2. minimize lateral or shearing effects on the skin

well fitting and sufficiently thick boots should prevent both generally. however, any movement will tend to be more abrasive and separate the dermal layers if there is water or moisture involved. Hence, foot powder to reduce the moisture on the skin. But once wet, the powder may add abrasiveness to the conditons. Moleskin does not stay on well during my sweaty foot episodes. There is a tape (may have mentioned it before) called Kinesio Tape that has elastic properties but stays on well. You can also add "benzoin" spray to increase the adhesiveness of regular tape products. I have walked through blisters that have become 2 or 3rd degree wounds but this is not advisable and early intervention is very important. If you have underlying medical issues, like diabetes, obviously you need to be even more careful with the foot situation.

what to do with blisters that develop is another issue and I think depends on why they occured, what the situation is with regard to sterility and how big the blister is. There is some value to draining, but you have now converted a closed system to an open one in conditions (wet and warm) that bacteria love.

some folks have used "vasoline" to minimize the shearing forces, I don't know how to use that and on the surface it seems counter productive as the socks seem to stick to the vasoline.



The cure for a fallacious argument is a better argument, not the suppression of ideas.
-- Carl Sagan
avatar Re: Question for those who hike
May 06, 2009 02:46PM
i have never used a sock liner , and probably wouldn't recognize one if it hit me in the face.. i'll have to check them out.. would a place like Bass Pro have them?
avatar Re: Question for those who hike
May 06, 2009 02:54PM
Sock liners may or may not be the magical solution. I have stopped wearing them and found fewer blisters. The idea that they keep your feet dryer seemed flawed. If the add protection without making foot overly tight in the boot, worth considering. The best socks I have found to be sock made from wool that is not itchy. one brand is Darn Tough, in Vermont. Really excellent sock! lifetime guarantee.



The cure for a fallacious argument is a better argument, not the suppression of ideas.
-- Carl Sagan
avatar Re: Question for those who hike
May 06, 2009 02:55PM
Frank;
any particular store where i can get them?
avatar Re: Question for those who hike
May 06, 2009 03:09PM
Quote
forrestranger
Frank;
any particular store where i can get them?

Well, I bought mine in the Ace Hardware in Truckee, There is a website; google Darn Tough Vermont to find them.



The cure for a fallacious argument is a better argument, not the suppression of ideas.
-- Carl Sagan
avatar Re: Question for those who hike
May 06, 2009 03:08PM
Quote
Frank Furter
I have found to be sock made from wool that is not itchy

I got blisters when I got my wool socks wet. But I didn't not get blisters with wet socks that were a wool and polypropylene blend (probably due to wicking). YMMV
avatar Re: Question for those who hike
May 06, 2009 03:04PM
Quote
forrestranger
would a place like Bass Pro have them?

Do bass wear socks?
avatar Re: Question for those who hike
May 06, 2009 03:20PM
the one's where i live do, i thought they all did.
avatar Re: Question for those who hike
May 06, 2009 03:21PM
On a SOCK?!?!?
avatar Re: Question for those who hike
May 06, 2009 03:17PM
Lifetime guarantee on a sock! R U kidding?

I've only been using Smartwool Hiking and Backpacking Socks for last few years.

Cross Training Shoes... liners... Smartwool Sockies... dats what I been a using lately..
Hate Boots now that shoe companies have gotten it and put nice Vibram Soles on shoes..
avatar Re: Question for those who hike
May 06, 2009 03:23PM
Quote
bill-e-g
Lifetime guarantee on a sock! R U kidding?

I've only been using Smartwool Hiking and Backpacking Socks for last few years.

Cross Training Shoes... liners... Smartwool Sockies... dats what I been a using lately..
Hate Boots now that shoe companies have gotten it and put nice Vibram Soles on shoes..

Cynicism from one so young and innocent!
This is just too easy:
http://www.darntough.com/weknowsocks.html



The cure for a fallacious argument is a better argument, not the suppression of ideas.
-- Carl Sagan
avatar Re: Question for those who hike
May 06, 2009 03:24PM
thanks Frank!
avatar Re: Question for those who hike
May 06, 2009 03:30PM
Quote
Frank Furter
Cynicism from one so young and innocent!

NOW YOU ARE TALKING! *the young part

What the heck is a goat year anyway?!?

I think by lifetime guarantee I don't think they mean... they wore out... you get another pair.
(which is the case with Leki Trekking poles in a sense)
avatar Re: Question for those who hike
May 06, 2009 03:37PM
Quote
bill-e-g
What the heck is a goat year anyway?!?

Isn't it part of that Chinese zodiac thingy?
avatar Re: Question for those who hike
May 06, 2009 03:43PM
Quote
bill-e-g


I think by lifetime guarantee I don't think they mean... they wore out... you get another pair.
(which is the case with Leki Trekking poles in a sense)

I think so! Think about it. It is brilliant. Like a "rebate" (which many people do not execute). The socks are very good but expensive (about 15-20/pair) The "life time guarantee" is the clincher so it is easier to pay that price. However, what are the odds you will wear them out before losing one? If you need the receipt (I don't know for sure that that is necessry) that adds another level of obstacle. Email them for the details. If there is a postage and handling charge, they may recoup some expense there. I doubt that they have to replace more than 1/50 pairs of socks. Good risk management!
Rubbermaid plastic containers used to have a lifetime guarantee, but I would always forget to send them in (it would cost more in postage than to just buy a new container)



The cure for a fallacious argument is a better argument, not the suppression of ideas.
-- Carl Sagan
avatar Re: Question for those who hike
May 06, 2009 03:57PM
Emailing them now!

And they had better not respond
"yes, you get a new pair... baaahhhut... you have to pay for shipping back and forth... and a 20 dolla handling fee... sucka..."

I'll let you know...

(I just checked smartwool and they say "We cannot extend our offer to replace or refund product damaged due to normal wear from use."winking smiley
avatar Re: Question for those who hike
May 06, 2009 04:07PM
I have some Smartwool and they are looking old and "lived in". My Darn Tough socks are stained, but otherwise still have the "elasticity and joie de vive of youth" from the day I bought them (not last week). I keep them on them on the living room mantle where they can be adored and worshipped periodically. (No, Bee, not actually!)



The cure for a fallacious argument is a better argument, not the suppression of ideas.
-- Carl Sagan
avatar Re: Question for those who hike
July 03, 2009 09:41PM
Happy Feet:
Followup report on Darn Tough socks;
Just walked 40 miles in 4 days in 2 pairs of these socks(wore one pair at a time). 22000 feet of elevation change including up and down. No blisters. Best socks I have ever used. I did not use any liner socks, tape, or special padding. I did wear boots, however.



The cure for a fallacious argument is a better argument, not the suppression of ideas.
-- Carl Sagan
avatar Re: Question for those who hike
July 03, 2009 10:13PM
Quote
Frank Furter
Just walked 40 miles in 4 days i

I told you, Bee!
avatar Re: Question for those who hike
May 11, 2009 07:32AM
Hot Diggity Dog was right!

Darn Tough Socks - LIFETIME WARRANTY

Wear them for 2 years... return them for a new pair... no problem
Unconditional Warranty

(I had to call them though... they didn't return my email query)
avatar Re: Question for those who hike
May 06, 2009 04:14PM
I am waiting to see the light...

(for the slow people: email sent... awaiting reply...)
avatar Re: Question for those who hike
May 06, 2009 04:31PM
Guys,

I've been wearing the top of the line Smartwool "Adrenaline" socks, a wool/synthetic blend for excellent wicking. They just upgraded them to a different name than Adrenaline. They go for $18.95 at REI and of course there is always the REI return warranty. Great Outdoor Provisions carries them also.

Anyway, I've been using them in my Osolo boots with not one blister yet. I sometimes get what might be called a hot spot but when I'm done hiking and actually examine my feet there are no blisters or areas of irritation. On the Yosemite trip I will carry some moleskin but don't plan to use it unless it seems like I need to.

The other key to no blisters is well fitting hikers or boots that can be laced pretty tightly to prevent internal foot movement, especially on steep downgrades. I've had to spend a lot of money gearing up for backpacking again and the one place I spent the most was for high quality boots that fit well, provide lots of support, and were easy to break in.
avatar Re: Question for those who hike
May 11, 2009 11:13AM
Wool socks work fine for me smiling smiley


I'll try Gold Bond if it's especially hot as it would probably help with stinky feet. Gold Bond is kind of a miracle powder for keeping your skin dry and unirritated.
avatar Re: Question for those who hike
May 11, 2009 11:23AM
Quote
dqniel
Wool socks work fine for me smiling smiley


I'll try Gold Bond if it's especially hot as it would probably help with stinky feet. Gold Bond is kind of a miracle powder for keeping your skin dry and unirritated.

Doesn't Gold Bond contain menthol? Not that it's that big a deal, but menthol pretty much smells like peppermint, and I've always heard the warnings against anything with a food like odor stored in cars or at a campsite (other than in a bear box or hard-sided RV). Of course people use assorted liniments that contain menthol and/or methyl salicylate (wintergreen) or shower with peppermint soaps, so I suppose it's not unusual.

I think the menthol is one reason why Gold Bond tends to feel cool and tingly.
avatar Thanks For All the Sock Info!!
May 11, 2009 04:57PM
Yesterday, I went on a six mile hike wearing my new Thorlo "Light Hiking" socks: 61% Coolmax,19% Acrylic,14% Nylon, 5% Spandex. The first half of the hike was fine...until my foot started to sweat. At that point of saturation, the fluffy comfy socks turned into a large Brillo Pad that proceeded to turn my feet into one big blister! (I have been wearing the same hiking boots for years, and they have never given me a problem) I have always worn a mostly wool sock with some synthetic mix with great success, but I got talked into trying this new 100% synthetic, and I am REALLY disappointed.


Busy Bee
avatar Re: Thanks For All the Sock Info!!
May 11, 2009 05:12PM
Quote
Bee
Yesterday, I went on a six mile hike wearing my new Thorlo "Light Hiking" socks: 61% Coolmax,19% Acrylic,14% Nylon, 5% Spandex. The first half of the hike was fine...until my foot started to sweat. At that point of saturation, the fluffy comfy socks turned into a large Brillo Pad that proceeded to turn my feet into one big blister! (I have been wearing the same hiking boots for years, and they have never given me a problem) I have always worn a mostly wool sock with some synthetic mix with great success, but I got talked into trying this new 100% synthetic, and I am REALLY disappointed.


Busy Bee

Maybe Bodyglide or Footglide?

http://www.bodyglide.com
avatar Re: Thanks For All the Sock Info!!
May 11, 2009 05:48PM
Quote

Maybe Bodyglide or Footglide?

http://www.bodyglide.com

Thank you; I did not know about this product.

Busy Bee
avatar Re: Question for those who hike
May 11, 2009 11:28AM
I loved Gold Bond when I was a child...

(Gold Bond Ice Cream - Green Bay, Wisconsin)
avatar Re: Question for those who hike
May 11, 2009 05:21PM
When I was a child indeed.



Old Dude
avatar Re: Question for those who hike
May 11, 2009 05:52PM
Quote
mrcondron
When I was a child indeed.

I can almost hear the smirk as I read this line wink

Busy Bee
avatar Re: Question for those who hike
May 11, 2009 05:56PM
Quote
not so Busy Bee
Quote
old dude mrcondron
When I was a child indeed.

I can almost hear the smirk as I read this line wink

HEY! I'm watching!
I'll just let it be known that I'm eating some NOW!

tongue sticking out smiley

(this peppermint "ice cream" is deeee-licious!)


Hey...cool... Hot Diggity Dog must have lobied for his own:
Hot Dog
avatar Re: Question for those who hike
May 11, 2009 06:13PM
Quote
bill-e-g
Quote
not so Busy Bee
Quote
old dude mrcondron
When I was a child indeed.

I can almost hear the smirk as I read this line wink

Quote
Stinky OldGoatee)HEY! I'm watching!
I'll just let it be known that I'm eating some NOW![/quote


BEWARE: Lurking OLDgoats in the vacinityGoat Stop

Quote
Stinky OldGoatee
(this peppermint "ice cream" is deeee-licious!)

hey, is it the kind with chocolatey chunks, or is it the plain ice-cream?

Quote

Hey...cool... Hot Diggity Dog must have lobied for his own:
Hot Dog

Very Cool!!

Busy Bee
avatar Re: Question for those who hike
July 03, 2009 09:57PM
I wore them on my trip too. It'll take me awhile to figure the elevation and distance...
Anyway... Very very happy with them too...
Only complaint is that they stink to high heaven.
I had to throw them outside the tent at night.
avatar Re: Question for those who hike
July 03, 2009 10:14PM
Quote
bill-e-g
Only complaint is that they stink to high heaven.
I had to throw them outside the tent at night.

Try sticking them in your pee bottle? Chick
avatar Re: Question for those who hike
July 03, 2009 10:24PM
Quote
bill-e-g
I wore them on my trip too. It'll take me awhile to figure the elevation and distance...
Anyway... Very very happy with them too...
Only complaint is that they stink to high heaven.
I had to throw them outside the tent at night.

I would not blame the socks for that event. It is a perfect culture medium within hiking boots: moist, dark , warm. No telling what is growing in there. I had a pair of tennis shoes I liked that got so pungent I finally had to have them autoclaved.



The cure for a fallacious argument is a better argument, not the suppression of ideas.
-- Carl Sagan
avatar Re: Question for those who hike
July 04, 2009 08:00AM
I blame the socks. My other socks certainly never stunk that much!
It's a small price to pay though. They are definitely keepers. Love em.

So... where did you go exactly? Kaweah Gap? Please post something (start another thread).
avatar Re: Question for those who hike
July 04, 2009 10:50AM
Quote
bill-e-g
I blame the socks. My other socks certainly never stunk that much!
It's a small price to pay though. They are definitely keepers. Love em.

So... where did you go exactly? Kaweah Gap? Please post something (start another thread).

Reports in agonizing detail to follow when I get some pics available.

On the foot odor issue:
citral, citronellal, and geraniol deoxycholic acid seem to be useful in reducing the production of unpleasant odors from common skin bacteria. I searched google and Pubmed and found this material has several of the important ingredients. Might be worth a try:

Freeman Bare Foot Softening Foot Lotion, Peppermint & Plum, Invigorating
http://www.drugstore.com/qxp20963_333181_sespider/freeman/bare_foot_softening_foot_lotion_peppermint_and_plum_invigorating.htm


A pharmacist may be able to put together something without all the extra stuff in a lotion that could be helpful or could recommend some commercial product with fewer mystery ingredients. Once the boots are colonized, it may be difficult to completely eliminate the effect by a lotion on the foot. Also, consider a dilute bleach solution when washing the socks to kill resident bacteria.

(we all have odor issues. my personal one is axilla effuvium in spite of daily ablutions, I can be become quite "gamey" when sweating constantly)

Info and references on the foot issue from:


http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16699586
1: Can J Microbiol. 2006 Apr;52(4):357-64. Links
Foot odor due to microbial metabolism and its control.Ara K, Hama M, Akiba S, Koike K, Okisaka K, Hagura T, Kamiya T, Tomita F.
Biological Science Laboratories, Kao Co., Ltd., Tochigi 321-3497, Japan. ara.katsutoshi@kao.co.jp

To characterize foot odor, we analyzed its components by sensory tests, isolated microorganisms that produce it, and evaluated the mechanism of the occurrence of foot odor. As a result, foot odor was found to be derived from isovaleric acid, which is produced when Staphylococcus epidermidis, a resident species of the normal cutaneous microbial flora, degrades leucine present in sweat. In addition, Bacillus subtilis was detected in the plantar skin of subjects with strong foot odor, and this species was shown to be closely associated with increased foot odor. Therefore, we screened various naturally occurring substances and fragrant agents that inhibit microbial production of foot odor without disturbing the normal microbial flora of the human skin. As a result, we identified citral, citronellal, and geraniol as fragrant agents that inhibit the generation of isovaleric acid at low concentrations.



: Nippon Saikingaku Zasshi. 1990 Jul;45(4):797-800.Links
[Relationship between an offensive smell given off from human foot and Staphylococcus epidermidis][Article in Japanese]


Kobayashi S.
Laboratory of R & D, Koji-Honp Co., Ltd., Adachi-ku, Japan.

The bacteria isolated from foot skins of 17 volunteers by the swab sampling method were mostly gram-positive cocci, which were identified as Staphylococcus epidermidis by the ID-kit SP-18 (Nissui Co., Ltd). After incubation of S. epidermidis on agar plates containing oleic acid and Tween 80 for 24 h at 35 C, the smell noticed was similar to an offensive smell of human pes. However, under the same conditions, the smell of another staphylococcal species was different from that of S. epidermidis. Except for the staphylococcal species, the colonies isolated from the skins were mostly those of yeast (unidentified) and gave off no offensive smell. From these results, it was considered that the smell of human pes might be given off by S. epidermidis, and if this species is inhibited, the smell would also be inhibited. A selective bactericide for gram-positive bacteria, which is a lotion containing deoxycholic acid, was applied to the feet of the 17 volunteers. The experiments showed that the application obviously decreased the counts of colonies of S. epidermidis and inhibited the smell as compared with controls.

Additional information from family physician website:
http://www.fpnotebook.com/Ortho/Sx/FtOdr.htm



The cure for a fallacious argument is a better argument, not the suppression of ideas.
-- Carl Sagan




Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/04/2009 10:57AM by Frank Furter.
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