Re: Bring DEET

I hear they're out in the Valley.

Is that not what the kind and gentle goat has told you already?

I can't handle DEET. Too greasy and the higher concentrations give me a mild allergic reaction. DEET is nasty stuff too. It'll dissolve and/or degrade many plastics including polyester, polycarbonate, polystyrene, ABS, etc. Nylon seems to be immune to its effects. BearVault specifically warns people not to use it to store insect repellents (I think they mean DEET) on their newest lid labels. Polycarbonate doesn't do too well, and whatever material is used for the lid seems to shed when exposed. I read a report of someone who sprayed on DEET in a greenhouse with polycarbonate windows, and they found that they started clouding up as a result.

I use Picaridin/Icaridin repellents. They don't smell bad and don't dissolve plastics.

yep, i had problems in the valley when i was there last weekend.. came home with a number of bites.. first time that ever happened to me in Yosemite.

I was there last week and talked to a Ranger about what seemed to me to be an ever increasing number of mosquitos these last so many years. She said I was right and it is because they have reversed a process that started many decades ago where they used to drain the meadows every year to reduce the mosquitos. They have stopped that process and the meadows are now retaining more and more water, and thus...Mosquitos!!

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mtn man
They have stopped that process and the meadows are now retaining more and more water, and thus...Mosquitos!!

And, thus, less and less tourists! Yahoo!

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Vince
And, thus, less and less tourists! Yahoo!

And less blood in you?

So what products do most of you guys use? There are so many DEET combinations (percentages) and other formulas (formulae?) that it's hard to decide what would work best for Yosemite. Seems like mosquitos are a real problem in Yosemite, so is the stronger stuff better?

Anyone see those new "OFF" clip-on repellents? They say they work as good as the sprays, but you don't have to soak your clothes with poison.

YPW, what brand name does your non-DEET formula go by? I don't like DEET either, just because I don't like the idea of spraying poison all over me (though I plead ignorance on if it is actually bad for people).

Use Off Outdoors or Back Country. I don't recall the exact model. Don't spray your clothes. Wear clothes with a tight weave that fit loosely. Long sleeves, long pants. Spray a little Off in the palm of one hand and rub your hands together, lightly smear Off on your exposed skin which should only be your face, neck, ears, and hands. No repellent will keep the mosquitos away but it will keep them from biting. Many people think repellent will keep the mosquitos from even getting near them but that is a misconception. Well behaved back country mosquitos are only out in the morning and at dusk. Valley mosquitos, including LYV mosquitos are not well behaved.

If you wear shorts and or short sleeves rub Off from the palms of your hands to exposed skin. You will still be swarmed but not bitten.

One can of Off will last me about five years.

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Old Dude

There is some extremely light mosquito netting that is useful under a hat.

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The cure for a fallacious argument is a better argument, not the suppression of ideas.
-- Carl Sagan

That's good too for siting around in the evening. Also very useful on the trail when the little flies are thick. Nothing worse than in haling one of those buggers. Sometimes though you forget you have it on while eating and will jam a spoonful of netting into your mouth.

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Old Dude

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cthenn
So what products do most of you guys use? There are so many DEET combinations (percentages) and other formulas (formulae?) that it's hard to decide what would work best for Yosemite. Seems like mosquitos are a real problem in Yosemite, so is the stronger stuff better?

Anyone see those new "OFF" clip-on repellents? They say they work as good as the sprays, but you don't have to soak your clothes with poison.

YPW, what brand name does your non-DEET formula go by? I don't like DEET either, just because I don't like the idea of spraying poison all over me (though I plead ignorance on if it is actually bad for people).

Here are a couple useful links on the topic:
http://www.epa.gov/pesticides/health/mosquitoes/ai_insectrp.htm
http://www.cdc.gov/ncidod/dvbid/westnile/qa/insect_repellent.htm

With the sizes offered at this site http://www.mosquitocurtains.com/home/mosquito-netting.html you could cover your entire campsite.

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The cure for a fallacious argument is a better argument, not the suppression of ideas.
-- Carl Sagan

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cthenn
YPW, what brand name does your non-DEET formula go by? I don't like DEET either, just because I don't like the idea of spraying poison all over me (though I plead ignorance on if it is actually bad for people).

The ingredient is called Picaridin/Icaridin (hydroxyethyl isobutyl piperidine carboxylate) and used to be known as Bayrepel because it was created by Bayer before the product was spun off to a new company.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Icaridin

It is a chemical, but not a particularly nasty one. I don't know how to describe it other than it has a slightly "sweet" smell but gets neutral after a while. It doesn't feel greasy going on and doesn't really feel like much once it's on your skin. It's sold as Cutter Advanced (7%) or Cutter Advanced Sport (15%), as well as OFF FamilyCare Insect Repellent II Clean Feel (Off seems to change their product names a lot) which is 5%.

http://www.cutterinsectrepellent.com/ProductCategories/RepellentProducts/Cutter+Advanced/
http://www.cutterinsectrepellent.com/ProductCategories/RepellentProducts/AdvancedSport/
http://www.cutterinsectrepellent.com/ProductCategories/RepellentProducts/AdvancedWipes/
http://www.offprotects.com/mosquito-repellent/



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/22/2009 12:06PM by y_p_w.

Sorry - this used to be a duplicate post.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/22/2009 12:06PM by y_p_w.

Have you had the same problem as I with these DEET containers leaking? Aerosol, pump, they all leak. I have to put the container in a plastic bag and let it leak. I put a paper towel in with it and use the paper towel to rub on the stuff rather than spray it all over.

Repel makes a product from lemon eucalyptus oil that works well. A few years ago, we had all 3...DEET, Cutter advanced (picardin) and the lemon-euc...on a visit to the valley after Memorial day. So, in an unscientific test, we got to see what worked and what didn't. The DEET and the lemon euc both worked well. The picardin failed...my son tried it and was being attacked right after he'd put it on. The Repel lemon-euc is all we've used since.

The lemon-euc is a little sticky, though not as bad as deet, and smells better depending on what you like to smell. And at least it's a natural product. It's a little hard to find at times, but I've seen it in Target.

I don't think DEET's ever been proven to be particularly dangerous, but neither were a lot of other things they told us were good for us...

Speaking of mosquitoes, they are thick in parts of the valley, and not an issue in others. There were a few at the campgrounds, but I started a walk up the Mirror Lake trail, and once you get much past the tourist stop, they're vicious and numerous. Some guy stopped his horse and got off, and the horse wasn't even waiting for him to get back on the saddle before he took off; I think if you stopped moving, you'd be sucked dry in about 5 minutes...8^). I didn't have any insect repellent with me, so beat a quick retreat wearning a raincoat and not stopping...except for a few photos, where I watched them land on my fingers as I hurriedly tried to get the photo.

They're spotty, so if yoiu go on a walk take the insect repellent with you; you'll think there are no mosquitoes and then you come to a spot...the black oak grove across Northside drive from the Yosemite Falls bus stop is another one...where they're all over you.

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Gary
Yosemite Photo Galleries: http://www.pbase.com/roberthouse/yo

I'm not quite so fearful of potent chemicals for mosquitos as some folks are but want to know if anybody has personal experience with Sawyer Insect Repellant for Clothing sold by REI. Active ingredient is Permethrin.

This product is never to be sprayed directly on the body or on clothing while being worn. It's designed to be sprayed on clothing and even tent entrances at least a few days prior to a hiking trip. You don't take it with you. Clothing is laid outdoors, sprayed and allowed to sit for 2-4 hours depending upon humidity factor. Lasts up to 6 weeks.

I was thinking of purchasing this product and augmenting it with REI Ultra 30 (Deet) lotion.





On a side note I did a 6.4 mile local hike yesterday on a new section of the several hundred mile long Mountains-to-Sea Trail being developed in NC as part of my full backpack conditioning. A small portion of the trail included walking through ankle deep grasses. Upon returning home I removed my boots and began picking out small burrs and grass seeds from my socks when I realized 1/3 of these items were moving. Ultimately, I discovered roughly 40 ticks of all sizes between the socks and on the lower body. Some were only 1/2 millimeter in size. All this from a 3 hour hike! I had sprayed my socks, ankles, and legs with "Off" at the trailhead. Little good it did. North Carolina is badly infested with ticks this year.

Jim

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tomdisco
I'm not quite so fearful of potent chemicals for mosquitos as some folks are but want to know if anybody has personal experience with Sawyer Insect Repellant for Clothing sold by REI. Active ingredient is Permethrin.

This product is never to be sprayed directly on the body or on clothing while being worn. It's designed to be sprayed on clothing and even tent entrances at least a few days prior to a hiking trip. You don't take it with you. Clothing is laid outdoors, sprayed and allowed to sit for 2-4 hours depending upon humidity factor. Lasts up to 6 weeks.

I was thinking of purchasing this product and augmenting it with REI Ultra 30 (Deet) lotion.

Jim

No specific personal experience, but the drug has been around a long time. Appears to be very toxic to fish, minimal human toxicity. It is, of course, different from DEET as it is an insecticide.


http://pmep.cce.cornell.edu/profiles/extoxnet/metiram-propoxur/permethrin-ext.html

Would be very important to keep it out of fish-containing waters

http://www.fda.gov/cder/foi/anda/2000/75014_Permethrin_Chemr.pdf
http://www.cdc.gov/lice/head/treatment.html#prescription
http://usachppm.apgea.army.mil/documents/Permethrin180508.pdf

Prescription and non-prescription versions are available for use on children and there appears to be very low human toxicity.

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The cure for a fallacious argument is a better argument, not the suppression of ideas.
-- Carl Sagan

I ended up getting the Lemon/Euc formula. We'll try it next weekend if needed...thanks for the replies!