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Re: Barriers Bring Better Bear Behavior But Burden Backpackers

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avatar Barriers Bring Better Bear Behavior But Burden Backpackers
May 21, 2009 08:57PM
http://www.counterassault.com/html/bearfence.html
High tech panniers, 165 qt bear resistant coolers and electric fences!


http://missoulian.com/articles/2009/05/07/outdoors/out26.txt

(cut)
This spring, the Montana Department of Fish, Wildlife and Parks certified two new coolers for storing food in remote places like Smith River campsites. A new pannier for horse outfitters has defeated determined bruins. And new models of electric fences have come on the market to protect fruit trees, bee hives and other bear attractants.

For years, the most reliable outdoor bear-proofing was to leave food in the car. In the backcountry, hanging bags at least 10 feet up and 4 feet away from nearby trees was the rule.

But some places won’t cooperate. High-elevation hikers in Glacier National Park have gotten used to packing “bear kegs” with screw-top lids because the sub-alpine forests are too short. Made of plastic aluminum, the kegs weigh about three pounds and hold a couple days’ worth of dried food for small parties.

That puts the kegs on the lighter end of the bear-resistant spectrum. The new Yeti Cooler has airtight seals, special fittings and stainless steel latches that restrict them to car- or raft-camping. They do require padlocking to clear the bear standard, however. They range in size from 45 to 165 quarts.

Kalispell’s Counter Assault manufacturing firm has a new packable electric fence in production for temporary protection in the backcountry. It’s a system that requires a horse to haul, but it should protect the horse’s granary. (cut)

http://www.counterassault.com/html/bearfence.html



The cure for a fallacious argument is a better argument, not the suppression of ideas.
-- Carl Sagan
avatar Re: Barriers Bring Better Bear Behavior But Burden Backpackers
May 21, 2009 10:59PM
OK, well, back to Yosemite, then.
avatar Re: Barriers Bring Better Bear Behavior But Burden Backpackers
May 22, 2009 06:23AM
Quote
A Hot Diggity Dog
Kalispell’s Counter Assault manufacturing firm has a new packable electric fence in production for temporary protection in the backcountry

It's only about 10 pounds. Hmmm.....
Wonder if it will protect my Twinkie and Cupcake stash from the "animals"???

In a huge portion of Glacier you are required to camp only at "backcountry campsites" which are equipped with
a location with a wire to hang your food, a location to cook, and a location to pitch.
You HAVE to use the wire and they don't want you to even bring a bear can. If you do then you have to hang it too...

There is disperse camping in some of the park. The people we ran into doing that when we were day-hiking all
had bear canisters...

I guess I'm a dumb goat... b/c once again I have no idea what Vince is talking about.
avatar Re: Barriers Bring Better Bear Behavior But Burden Backpackers
May 22, 2009 07:18AM
Available at REI. Not clear if this needs to be packed on a horse/mule or if a person could take it.
http://www.rei.com/product/761282
and a dividend too. Maybe you could use posts as trekking poles! During lightening storm I think I might prefer the bears.



The cure for a fallacious argument is a better argument, not the suppression of ideas.
-- Carl Sagan
avatar Re: Barriers Bring Better Bear Behavior But Burden Backpackers
May 22, 2009 07:32AM
Quote
oscar
Available at REI. Not clear if this needs to be packed on a horse/mule or if a person could take it.
Maybe you could use posts as trekking poles! During lightening storm I think I might prefer the bears.

No Problem!
"Packs up conveniently into the 6 x 41-inch storage bag included for easy transport"

Set it up in the middle of a meadow... storm comes a rollin in... a..zzzzzap... twinkies and cupcakes everywhere!
avatar Re: Barriers Bring Better Bear Behavior But Burden Backpackers
May 22, 2009 12:09PM
Quote
bill-e-g
Quote
oscar
Available at REI. Not clear if this needs to be packed on a horse/mule or if a person could take it.
Maybe you could use posts as trekking poles! During lightening storm I think I might prefer the bears.

No Problem!
"Packs up conveniently into the 6 x 41-inch storage bag included for easy transport"

Set it up in the middle of a meadow... storm comes a rollin in... a..zzzzzap... twinkies and cupcakes everywhere!



This item would have been a great boon to Vince on his epic journey up to the top of Half Dome. He could have set it up to protect himself from lightning strikes while trying to figure out why he was the only person up there at the time. (See: <http://yosemitenews.info/forum/read.php?1,11625,11677#msg-11677>; )



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/22/2009 12:13PM by szalkowski.
avatar Re: Barriers Bring Better Bear Behavior But Burden Backpackers
May 22, 2009 09:11AM
WTF!!!



Old Dude
avatar Re: Barriers Bring Better Bear Behavior But Burden Backpackers
May 22, 2009 09:20AM
Quote
mrcondron
WTF!!!

mrcondron, Are you from New England?

(Wicked Twinkie Fire!!! ... indeed)
avatar Re: Barriers Bring Better Bear Behavior But Burden Backpackers
May 22, 2009 06:05PM
Quote
Mr Condron
WTF!!

Mr Condron, I think this qualifies as Potty Mouth!eye popping smiley

Busy Bee



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/22/2009 06:05PM by Bee.
avatar Re: Barriers Bring Better Bear Behavior But Burden Backpackers
May 22, 2009 12:48PM
Quote
Frank Furter
Available at REI. Not clear if this needs to be packed on a horse/mule or if a person could take it.
http://www.rei.com/product/761282
and a dividend too. Maybe you could use posts as trekking poles! During lightening storm I think I might prefer the bears.

8 lbs and packs into a 41x6" package? That's less than some digital SLR packages (camera, tripod, telephoto lenses) that some people bring along in the backcountry.

I'm not sure about the effectiveness though. I know cattle and deer are deterred by electric fences, but they don't tend to be either smart or crafty. They're not known to be risk takers either. Some bears have been known to kamikaze jump from branches to take down bear bags. Sooner or later some bear is just going to charge at one of these things despite the shock and/or pain.
avatar Re: Barriers Bring Better Bear Behavior But Burden Backpackers
May 22, 2009 12:53PM
Quote
y_p_w
Some bears have been known to kamikaze jump from branches to take down bear bags.

A good reason not to put your tent under that tree.
avatar Re: Barriers Bring Better Bear Behavior But Burden Backpackers
May 22, 2009 01:26PM
If bears will tear apart a beehive ignoring hundreds of stings on the face and nose then why would a little electricity bother them, other than the initial surprise?

Jim
avatar Re: Barriers Bring Better Bear Behavior But Burden Backpackers
May 22, 2009 02:01PM
Quote
tomdisco
If bears will tear apart a beehive ignoring hundreds of stings on the face and nose then why would a little electricity bother them, other than the initial surprise?

Electric fences have been used to protect apiaries.
avatar Re: Barriers Bring Better Bear Behavior But Burden Backpackers
May 22, 2009 02:24PM
I have one of these but I hate it, weighs too much. But nothing will steal your food so I guess the compromise is OK.

Garcia Bear Canister
avatar Re: Barriers Bring Better Bear Behavior But Burden Backpackers
May 22, 2009 03:03PM
Quote
Frank Furter
Kalispell’s Counter Assault manufacturing firm has a new packable electric fence in production for temporary protection in the backcountry. It’s a system that requires a horse to haul, but it should protect the horse’s granary. (cut)
http://www.counterassault.com/html/bearfence.html




It's not like they actually developed this themselves:
http://www.gallagher.co.nz/electric-fence-systems.aspx

I tracked this down because the 0.11 Joule energy output quoted in the Counter Assault advertisement seemed to be a bit on the small side for an 8kV system. (It's not the voltage that zaps you, it's the current that backs it up.) Turns out that the 'energizer' has a refresh rate of about 1 Hz, so you will get a energy pulse every second. The fact that it is AC rather than DC helps in providing that “unpleasant tingley sensation." Still, it seems to be quite a bit on the light side for a bear.

HOWEVER, it probably will work great on goats. KIWIS CHECK & MATE!!!
avatar Re: Barriers Bring Better Bear Behavior But Burden Backpackers
May 22, 2009 03:13PM
Quote
LennyBeaks
HOWEVER, it probably will work great on goats. KIWIS CHECK & MATE!!!

Whoa!!!!! Maaaaamy...

I was expecting a zinger of something to the affect of "what do you need a bear can in bronco for"...
and I got this!
Mmmmm..... Zingers.... (hmm.... maybe need to add that to my stash too)

Goat Stop

(I think I need to hide within the confines of my electrical fence...) (no bear can required)
avatar Re: Barriers Bring Better Bear Behavior But Burden Backpackers
May 22, 2009 03:16PM
avatar Re: Barriers Bring Better Bear Behavior But Burden Backpackers
May 22, 2009 03:27PM
Quote
bill-e-g

I was expecting a zinger of something to the affect of "what do you need a bear can in bronco for"...
and I got this!



See above ( <http://yosemitenews.info/forum/read.php?1,11830,11886#msg-11886>; ).



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/22/2009 03:29PM by szalkowski.
avatar Re: Barriers Bring Better Bear Behavior But Burden Backpackers
May 22, 2009 03:07PM
Reported bear depredations on apiaries have decreased over the years largely due to the success of using electric fences to limit bear access to apiaries.

http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/AA133
avatar Re: Barriers Bring Better Bear Behavior But Burden Backpackers
May 22, 2009 03:15PM
Quote
eeek
Reported bear depredations on apiaries have decreased over the years largely due to the success of using electric fences to limit bear access to apiaries.

http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/AA133

I think the real question is whether or not it'll be a deterrent for a Sierra bear. Outside of the Sierra Nevada I rarely hear about bears breaking into cars or defeating bear bagging. We've even got bears that figured out how to breach a BearVault before the BV350/400 models were available.
avatar Black bear in car
May 22, 2009 03:22PM
This was outside of the Sierra:


avatar Re: Barriers Bring Better Bear Behavior But Burden Backpackers
May 22, 2009 03:39PM
Quote
y_p_w
Quote
eeek
Reported bear depredations on apiaries have decreased over the years largely due to the success of using electric fences to limit bear access to apiaries.

http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/AA133

I think the real question is whether or not it'll be a deterrent for a Sierra bear. Outside of the Sierra Nevada I rarely hear about bears breaking into cars or defeating bear bagging. We've even got bears that figured out how to breach a BearVault before the BV350/400 models were available.

http://www.jstor.org/pss/3795661
avatar Re: Barriers Bring Better Bear Behavior But Burden Backpackers
May 23, 2009 04:10PM
Quote
eeek
Reported bear depredations on apiaries have decreased over the years largely due to the success of using electric fences to limit bear access to apiaries.

http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/AA133

O.K., what do I know?

Jim
avatar Re: Barriers Bring Better Bear Behavior But Burden Backpackers
May 22, 2009 03:21PM
eeek... now that is just silly...

I thought we were having a serious discussion.
avatar Re: Barriers Bring Better Bear Behavior But Burden Backpackers
May 22, 2009 06:51PM
Some more pictures of bears (Minaret Falls area)

Mamma Bear raids a campsite, eats a can of mixed nuts (left the cooler alone)


Baby bear in a tree about 30 feet up


Other stuff besides scat left behind
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