Re: Muir Trail Paving

Muir Trail (Between Happy Isles and Vernal Falls Bridge) is underway. Weather permitting the work will continue into January 2008 with intermittent closures.

By "paving", I hope you don't mean anything other than fixing the existing dirt.

CaT

Ditto that!

And while they are "paving", I hope they put up some bigger signs that say "NO PETS."

Is it too much to expect people to obey simple signs? For some reason, a lot of people in this country think that rules apply to everyone else but themselves. I've seen pets all the way up to the Half Dome steps and the park rangers refuse to do anything about it.

Okay, off the soapbox........

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Bill

california-trailwalker wrote:

> By "paving", I hope you don't mean anything other than fixing
> the existing dirt.

By "paving" they mean paving. The only "existing dirt" on that part of the JMT is from the paving wearing out.

If you're talking about asphalt, cement or the like, as in the case of much of the leftover stuff on the Four Mile Trail, then I'm sorry to hear that. Asphalt paving of trails like the JMT, Four Mile Trail and others like those (except the bike trails in the valley) are an unfortunate hangover of bygone days from an now-extinct way of thinking about wilderness/nature trails.

In this case, I sincerely hope they do not re-pave anything beyond Happy Isles heading up toward the falls. In fact, if they do anything, they should remove the existing leftover asphalt sections and return the trail to a packed dirt trail. I've been up and down these trails with the leftover asphalt sections on them, and those sections become needlessly slippery when loose grit and sand coat the asphalt. You have to slow way down to avoid slipping and falling on your butt -- almost like ice, but in summer.

CaT

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If future generations are to remember us with gratitude rather than contempt, we must leave them more than the miracle of technology.
We must leave them a glimpse of the world as it was in the beginning, not just after we got through with it.
- Lyndon Johnson, on signing the Wilderness Act into law (1964)

Don't get your britches strangled, most of Yosemite Valley has been paved in one way or another. Ever heard of Curry Village? Ahhhh-whaneeeee hotel at thousands of dollars a night?

The pavement from Happy Isles to the Vernal Fall bridge actually keeps the park more the way it was/is, erosion down, and I don't mind it. The JMT from there to the bridge is pretty much elbows and you know w00t anyway.

Yes ... we stay in Curry Village whenever we're there (been doing that for over 35 years). I wasn't referring to the Valley, but to the trails heading out of the Valley up into the mountains. I'm sure erosion is an issue along most parts of any trails, but I don't think anyone would suggest paving the entire PCT, for example, to overcome that. I don't see any difference between that example and the paving we're talking about here. And the way it was isn't necessarily the way it should be, IMO.

What's "w00t"?

CaT



Post Edited (12-17-07 04:52)

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If future generations are to remember us with gratitude rather than contempt, we must leave them more than the miracle of technology.
We must leave them a glimpse of the world as it was in the beginning, not just after we got through with it.
- Lyndon Johnson, on signing the Wilderness Act into law (1964)

I tend to agree with CaT. Coming down that part of the trail in September with full packs, I felt those sections were very slippery with the "loose grit and sand."

QuailHiker wrote:

> I tend to agree with CaT. Coming down that part of the trail
> in September with full packs, I felt those sections were very
> slippery with the "loose grit and sand."

Good thing you had all those tourists to break your fall!

My biggest problem with the crowd that doesn't get off the paved trails is that they're often oblivious that they're not the only users. I came across a family of three walking three across a paved section of the John Muir Trail. I was going back to the Valley trying to balance a 35 lb pack on my back. They wouldn't even tuck in and I was forced to get off trail unless I wanted either their kid to get knocked over when he walked straight into me and/or I get knocked down as a result of this kid bumping into me.

I think Yosemite is a wonderful place for kids, but there should be at least some attempt at a little common courtesy. I found that those in the backcountry knew that the trails were a shared resource, and to be careful around others wearing heavy packs.

Ok. My turn since someone said I was slightly cynical lately.
I think it's fine to actually pave the section from Happy to Vernal.
JMT is already paved that far so why not keep it ship shape?
I think we all know how many people use that trail!

Regarding the PCT/JMT paving... um... I kinda think they almost
do that already. Instead of asphalt they just use "pavers".
I definitely don't want asphalt everywhere but it makes sense
on the JMT to vernal trail. Not sure if I agree with the paving of
the PCT/JMT for pack mules... let's not get started on the pack mules..
ok... why not...
never walked thru so much crap in my life from north kings canyon
entrance to LeConte Canyon/Dusy Basin. (thank god the mules
seem to travel that section mostly) The Ranger at LeConte said
they will never go away but supposedly the number has
greatly diminished in the last 20 years. I thought that SEKI was
paving the trail with manure for awhile!
(IT REALLY WAS the John Manure Trail for awhile!)

Couldn't agree more with the pets/ rules don't apply to me comments.

Ok.. enough... somone else's turn...



Post Edited (12-18-07 06:43)

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Everything I know I learned from

I thought pets were allowed on all paved trails. Of course they are taken illegally on dirt trails.

The link is the current pet policy in Yosemite.

http://www.nps.gov/yose/planyourvisit/pets.htm

"These regulations protect both pets and wildlife from disease and each other. The National Park Service has prohibited pets on trails for many years. In particular, dogs chase wildlife, pollute water sources, and can become defensive and dangerous in unfamiliar surroundings. Pet owners have the burden to assure their pet does not damage the park values for others in those areas where pets are allowed."


I guess we could argue whether the trail from Happy Isles to Vernal Falls Bridge is an "unpaved or poorly paved trail" as the policy refers to (I think it is at least poorly paved), but I'm pretty sure the sign at the trailhead states "no pets" regardless.

Of course, that's a minor issue on the .8 of a mile up to the bridge. More importantly, I haven't been on the trail to Half Dome in the past 10 years where I didn't see dogs somewhere between Vernal Falls Bridge and the Half Dome steps. You can see them at Nevada Falls on almost any summer day.

I know those people who think of their pets as "members of the family" will continue to abide by only the rules that they like. I've VERY POLITELY mentioned to people on the JMT that they should take their animals back to the trailhead as they are not allowed in wilderness areas. Since this is a polite forum, I can't print their replies here. I'm sure you can guess what they were. I've never had one say they didn't know the policy or see the trailhead sign. They just didn't care.

I wish the gosh-darn Park Rangers would get off their behinds and ticket a few of these people. But I've never seen it happen. Even when I've mentioned the problem to the Park Rangers, they don't do anything about it. The problem will only get worse if the policy is not enforced. When one guy sees someone else with their pets, they'll want to do the same thing too.

I like animals. I like Yosemite more. I'd like people to follow rules that are implemented for good reasons. And I think keeping pets off of trails is for many good reasons.

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Bill

Amen Bill...

On the HUGE sign "High Sierra Loop Trail" that maps out the
distances to Whitney it says right on the bottom in huge
letters "NO PETS ON TRAILS". I'd put the picture but I am just a
caveman.

Have a nice day

Refering to the paving again.. When I hiked to Clouds Rest on November 17th the paving seemed to be complete up to the bridge.

I was quite surprised and found it LESS slippery than before.

Mike

Work is currently on hold until the weather improves.

The paving is done:



http://yosemitephotos.net/main.php?g2_itemId=7928

The original post on this subject are from some months ago, but I walked this section several days ago for the first time in 3 years and found it to be rather treacherous on tired legs. The sand on the asphalt makes it quite slippery and I was actually using walking sticks to maintain balance frequently. I suspect this will be impassable during significant ice and snow. Perhaps that was intended.
FF

I've heard that there are world class competition skateboarders that have learned that the trail is newly paved, and go up there very early in the morning before most people are on the trail. They are said to ride down the trail at very speeds, making it very dangerous if you're standing in the wrong place at the wrong time. Anyone else hear about this?

Time for a toll booth on the Happy Isles trail?

Backpacker's-----------------------------FREE

Day hikers------------------------------$15.00
Fuel sur-charge--------------------$ 2.00
Maintenance sur-charge---------$ 5.00
Cell tower sur-charge------------$ 6.00
Laptop hook-up charge----------$ 5.00
Box lunch delivery-----------------$13.00
Medical stations-------------------$ 7.00
Trailhead pet hotel---------------$ 25.00
Piped in Disney music------------$ 3.00
Rain shelters-----------------------$ 4.00
Contingency fee-------------------$ 5.00
Daily trinket/hawkers license------$ 15.00


Jim

tomdisco wrote:

> Time for a toll booth on the Happy Isles trail?
>
> Backpacker's-----------------------------FREE
>
> Day hikers------------------------------$15.00
> Fuel sur-charge--------------------$ 2.00
> Maintenance sur-charge---------$ 5.00
> Cell tower sur-charge------------$ 6.00
> Laptop hook-up charge----------$ 5.00
> Box lunch delivery-----------------$13.00
> Medical stations-------------------$ 7.00
> Trailhead pet hotel---------------$ 25.00
> Piped in Disney music------------$ 3.00
> Rain shelters-----------------------$ 4.00
> Contingency fee-------------------$ 5.00
> Daily trinket/hawkers license------$ 15.00
>
>
> Jim

Jim, you are positively dis-GUST-ing ;-)

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Wilderness forever,
Bruce Jensen

Oh yeah! I forgot to add one fee category:

Day trail biking fee for common folk----------------------$ 100.
Biking fee for departing U.S. presidents--------------$100,000.

Jim

mark2 wrote:

> I've heard that there are world class competition skateboarders
> that have learned that the trail is newly paved, and go up
> there very early in the morning before most people are on the
> trail. They are said to ride down the trail at very speeds,
> making it very dangerous if you're standing in the wrong place
> at the wrong time. Anyone else hear about this?

Skateboards in Yosemite are specifically only allowed in three areas as stated in the Superintendent's Compendium:

• Yosemite Village Mall
• Bicycle paths in Yosemite Valley
• Residential areas

I'd certainly hate for anyone to get hurt. Some backpackers get off to an early start and some punk knocking over someone with a 40 lb backpack strapped on should be thrown out of the park.

Will they have a guy up there every morning, going over it with one of those riding sweepers? (tee-hee) thats when I quit going....
Russ

I'm guessing that this high speed skateboarding may have only happened when they just paved the trail because, I would think that the dust that would continue to accumulate and make it a bit dangerous. Someone mentioned the slippery part here before. That might prohibit the continued use of the trail by them, unless that is, if they have a death wish. And, come to think of it, having watched some of the things some skateboarders do, that might not be out of the realm of possibility.

For those upset about the paving up to the bridge, I think they first started paving that trail in the 1920s or maybe it was the 1930s. It’s not a new idea. They originally even paved to at least Nevada Fall. You can still see what’s left of some of it here and there.

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mark2