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Re: Dogs

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avatar Dogs
March 26, 2009 09:53PM
i have a dog now (a German Shepherd) and would like to know exactly where i can and can't take her in Yosemite... i read where they are allowed on "fully paved trails and roads", but not in "wilderness areas"... what is considered a wilderness area?

my main concern is, am i for example allowed to take her on the trail to Nevada Falls? and if so, am i required to pick up her poop along the way?

thanks for any help
avatar Re: Dogs
March 26, 2009 09:55PM
>am i for example allowed to take her on the trail to Nevada Falls?

No.

avatar Re: Dogs
March 26, 2009 10:10PM
Newman!
avatar Re: Dogs
March 26, 2009 10:12PM
forrestranger wrote:

> Newman!

Eh?

avatar Re: Dogs
March 26, 2009 10:12PM
what about where the Cathedral Picnic area is? (where there is a large beach area by the river).
avatar Re: Dogs
March 26, 2009 10:20PM
Picnic areas should be ok.

avatar Re: Dogs
March 26, 2009 10:15PM
Newman is what Jerry Seinfeld used to say anytime something bad happened, or didn't go his way. lol (Newman was a neighbor he didn't like)
avatar Re: Dogs
March 26, 2009 10:21PM
forrestranger wrote:

> Newman is what Jerry Seinfeld used to say anytime something bad
> happened, or didn't go his way. lol (Newman was a neighbor he
> didn't like)

Ah, no wonder I didn't get it.

Re: Dogs
March 26, 2009 10:18PM
All the wilderness trailheads that I've seen in Yosemite are clearly marked with "NO PETS" signs. Unfortunately, more than a few in our society only read the signs that they want to read. I've seen many dogs up to the Vernal Falls bridge and some all the way up to Nevada Falls.

There are a lot of reasons why pets are not allowed on the wilderness trails (including the semi-paved trail to Vernal Falls bridge) that I won't go into here. All good reasons. But the Park Rangers refuse to enforce their own rules, so people are going to do what they want to do...rules be darned. If the Park Service would enforce these rules with warnings and/or fines, fewer people would break them. What happens is that people see others taking their pets to Vernal or Nevada, so they figure, "why can't I?"

I love animals and I have a beautiful Samoyed of my own. But I don't ruin other people's wilderness experience by taking her where she is not permitted. I know it's quaint and old-fashioned to obey rules these days (don't get me started on those who "tag" rocks in Yosemite), but I try. I'm not sure I would want to live in a world where everyone just obeys the rules that they like.

I thank you for the courtesy that you've shown by asking.





Bill
Re: Dogs
March 26, 2009 10:24PM
I could be wrong, but I would think anything on the Valley floor trails (including those in the Cathedral picnic area) are certainly open to pets. I don't see why not.

I don't know if there are leash requirements - there may be because of the mule deer and other wild animals on the Valley floor.





Bill
avatar Re: Dogs
March 26, 2009 10:49PM
>I don't know if there are leash requirements

There are.

avatar Re: Dogs
March 26, 2009 11:12PM
Wbmyosemite: >I'm not sure I would want to live in a world where everyone just obeys the rules that they like.<

sounds like an oxymoron using "rules" and "likes" in the same sentence!

B
avatar Re: Dogs
March 27, 2009 12:18AM
forrestranger,

About 90-95% of Yosemite is considered wilderness area. The major exceptions are roads or anywhere readily accessed via cars.

Jim
avatar Re: Dogs
March 27, 2009 08:15AM
tomdisco wrote:

> forrestranger,
>
> About 90-95% of Yosemite is considered wilderness area. The
> major exceptions are roads or anywhere readily accessed via
> cars.

However - about 90-95% of the visitation is in the areas not considered wilderness.

I'm pretty sure that a leashed dog can be taken on the Lower Yosemite Fall Trail, to Bridalveil Fall, and on the paved section of the John Muir Trail.

Seriously - if you want to take a dog on a wilderness hike, Yosemite probably isn't the place to do it because of the regulations. The rules are far more relaxed where the Forest Service or Bureau of Land Management has jurisdiction. Or maybe some state parks.

I saw someone who brought a dog to the top of Mt Tallac. The dog was a better hiker than anyone else. It was staring down the keg.



avatar Re: Dogs
March 27, 2009 01:46PM
y_p_w wrote:

> I'm pretty sure that a leashed dog can be taken on the Lower
> Yosemite Fall Trail, to Bridalveil Fall, and on the paved
> section of the John Muir Trail.

Almost right. But the John Muir Trail is closed to pets.

36 CFR § 2.15 – PETS
(a)(1) The following structures/areas are closed to pets except for service animals:
• All trails
• Nondeveloped and any designated Wilderness areas
• Specific areas as posted by signs
• Camp 4, Tamarack Campground, Porcupine Flat Campground, parts of Yosemite Creek
Campground, and all walk-in and backpacker campgrounds
• Nondeveloped areas of Tuolumne Meadows (The intent of this limit is to restrict pets from within
the open natural areas and trails of Tuolumne Meadows, but not the road corridor or parking
areas).
• When snow depth is sufficient for skiing, pets are not permitted on unplowed roads.
• Mariposa Grove Tram Road
(a)(1) Pets are allowed in the following structures/areas:
• Permanent residential areas
• Fully paved roads, walkways, and bicycle pathways
• Meadow Loop and Four-Mile fire roads in Wawona
• Carlon Road and Old Big Oak Flat Road between Hodgdon Meadow and Hazel Green Creek.
• Eleven-Mile and Chowchilla Mountain roads.
(a)(5) Pet excrement must be disposed in accordance with the following conditions:
• Pet excrement must be removed and disposed of in waste receptacles.
(e) Pets may be kept by park residents under the following conditions:
• Residents may keep pets in accordance with the current Pet Policy for Yosemite National Park,
as approved by the Superintendent. Such document is, by reference made part of these
regulations (see attached document.)

Re: Dogs
March 27, 2009 01:48PM
y_p_w wrote:
> I'm pretty sure that a leashed dog can be taken on the Lower
> Yosemite Fall Trail, to Bridalveil Fall, and on the paved
> section of the John Muir Trail.

The JMT is a definite 'no'...there's a sign right past Happy Isles. It does seem like lower Yosemite Fall trail would be paved, but I think it's only part way, and on the side coming directly up from the Lodge. Bikes aren't allowed, seems unlikely they'd make a dog exception for there. I don't remember Bridalveil being paved except in spots.

> I saw someone who brought a dog to the top of Mt Tallac. The
> dog was a better hiker than anyone else. It was staring down
> the keg.

No doubt he was a lot better hiker after the keg was empty, since he probably had the sense to drink water 8^)

Not familiar with the trail, but hope it's an easy, non hazardous one.

"It's getting dark and cold, get out the flashlights and jackets"
"Don't have those, but I've got this empty beer keg that I brought instead; will that do?"

Gary
avatar Re: Dogs
March 27, 2009 02:20PM
Sierrafan wrote:

> y_p_w wrote:
> > I'm pretty sure that a leashed dog can be taken on the Lower
> > Yosemite Fall Trail, to Bridalveil Fall, and on the paved
> > section of the John Muir Trail.
>
> The JMT is a definite 'no'...there's a sign right past Happy
> Isles. It does seem like lower Yosemite Fall trail would be
> paved, but I think it's only part way, and on the side coming
> directly up from the Lodge. Bikes aren't allowed, seems
> unlikely they'd make a dog exception for there. I don't
> remember Bridalveil being paved except in spots.

Forgot what the rules were.

I remember seeing someone in a wheelchair with a small dog at Bridalveil. I haven't been there in a while, but I recall it was paved all the way to the viewpoint. The last part is steep, but it was certainly possible to get a wheelchair up their with some serious effort.

> > I saw someone who brought a dog to the top of Mt Tallac. The
> > dog was a better hiker than anyone else. It was staring down
> > the keg.
>
> No doubt he was a lot better hiker after the keg was empty,
> since he probably had the sense to drink water 8^)
>
> Not familiar with the trail, but hope it's an easy, non
> hazardous one.

Not that easy, but this dog had no problems with uneven terrain. It was a champ on loose talus.

> "It's getting dark and cold, get out the flashlights and
> jackets"
> "Don't have those, but I've got this empty beer keg that I
> brought instead; will that do?"

The brewery that organized this beer fest at the top of Tallac has a myspace page.

http://www.myspace.com/191595593

avatar Re: Dogs
April 28, 2009 02:05PM
Quote
y_p_w
I'm pretty sure that a leashed dog can be taken on the Lower Yosemite Fall Trail, to Bridalveil Fall, and on the paved section of the John Muir Trail.

John Muir Trail rules sign at Happy Isles:

avatar Re: Dogs
April 28, 2009 03:25PM
Quote
eeek
Quote
y_p_w
I'm pretty sure that a leashed dog can be taken on the Lower Yosemite Fall Trail, to Bridalveil Fall, and on the paved section of the John Muir Trail.

John Muir Trail rules sign at Happy Isles:

I would note that service animals are not considered "pets". I remember meeting someone with a dog. She had an impairment where she would sometimes just blank out, and her dog was trained to lead her by retracing her path. I suppose blind or other people with needs for service animals might be exempt from these rules.

http://www.nps.gov/access/service_animals.htm

Quote

NPS Position

After careful review of the issues related to the use of service animals in the national parks, and based on the advice provided by the Solicitor's Office, we conclude that we are legally required by Section 504 of the Rehabilitation Act to allow all types of service animals into the parks. The NPS will revise the regulations to adopt a broader interpretation of what a service animal is, and where service animals should be allowed. The NPS will use the same definition of service animal currently found in DOJ regulations (28 CFR36.104). Service animals will not be considered pets and, in general, when accompanying a person with a disability (as defined by Federal law and DOJ regulations), must be allowed wherever visitors or employees are allowed.

Due to the concern for wildlife management issues, the regulation will allow superintendents to close an area to the use of service animals if it is determined that the service animal poses a direct threat to the health or safety of people or wildlife. The regulation will also state that, in determining whether a service animal poses a direct threat, the superintendent must make an individualized assessment based on current scientific knowledge or on the best available objective evidence to ascertain the nature, duration and severity of the risk and the probability that the potential threat will actually occur; and provide an explanation why less restrictive measures will not suffice. We expect to have the proposed rule published in the Federal Register for public review and comment by fall of this year.
Re: Dogs
March 27, 2009 03:09AM
First time we stayed at North Pines, I noticed pets were OK, so we brought our little schnauzer.
http://www.pbase.com/roberthouse/image/1602834

Slowly, reality set in, and while we really enjoy taking her places, we haven't brought her to the Valley since. Some of the things we "didn't" know in advance:

Paved trails only, which limits you to a few around the valley floor, and the trail to mirror lake (but not past the viewpoint). ON A LEASH.

Dogs can't go on shuttles. Dogs aren't allowed in any of the businesses, rooms or cabins or tent cabins. You can't leave the campground to go on a hike and leave the dog there, unless you leave someone there with it. You can't tie them up, with bed, food, and water, and leave. So basically you can't all go on a hike together, because someone has to stay back with the dog.

If the dog is one to get 'lonely' and bark, or likes to warn everyone of people noises, have mercy on your neighbors and don't leave it alone. If you're in a tent and the dog barks at outside noises, a lot of other tent dwellers nearby won't be electing you as "man of the year" 8^). Just a bark or two before you silence it is enough; repeat it every hour or so in the middle of the night, and...

But the other question...please DO pick up the dog poop wherever it is. Nothing spoils a nice Yosemite visit quite like stepping in a pile, or perhaps sitting under a tree only to find that it's been someone's dog's bathroom. Hopefully someday they'll make horse people clean up after their animals too...I never did understand why it was OK to just leave piles in the middle of the trail, convenient or not.

I only mention all this because we haven't taken the dog since. While it was a fun trip, the restrictions were just too limiting. I do see good reason for the restrictions, and share Bill's thoughts about not ignoring the rules, though for some reason I haven't seen dogs on the trails. Perhaps a seasonal thing?

There is a seasonal kennel behind the stables; after looking at it, I'd rather leave the dog home or with a dogsitter; the wire cages just don't seem like they'd make a very enjoyable Yosemite visit, even for a dog.



Post Edited (03-27-09 07:31)



Gary
Yosemite Photo Galleries: http://www.pbase.com/roberthouse/yo
Re: Dogs
March 27, 2009 07:38AM
Yosemite Lodge and Yosemite VIEW Lodge are two entirely different places. I believe the 'view' one is near El Portal.

Gary
avatar Re: Dogs
March 27, 2009 07:45AM
Sierrafan wrote:

> Yosemite Lodge and Yosemite VIEW Lodge are two entirely
> different places. I believe the 'view' one is near El Portal.
>
> Gary


Roger that.
My error. Somehow I had the impression that the new concessioner in the valley had re-named the old Yosemite Lodge. Yosemite View is outside the park.





The cure for a fallacious argument is a better argument, not the suppression of ideas.
-- Carl Sagan
avatar Re: Dogs
March 27, 2009 03:39AM
Short answer: NO

A little less shorter answer: LEAVE YOUR DOG AT HOME

There are enough annoying mammals in Yosemite, don't bring any extras.
avatar Re: Dogs
March 27, 2009 06:32AM
I like the shorter answer.

Unfortunately IMO they are allowed almost anywhere else outside the
park in the wilderness. I'm an animal lover at I get it .... but I almost
feel that even "homo stupidus" (us) shouldn't even be allowed in at times.

The best example is some wack-a-doodle guy with GOATS! and his
"guard dog" heading into Matterhorn Canyon. When I said "yo, bro,
pets aint allowed in the park" his response was simply "it's not a pet,
it's a guard dog".... nevermind the goats... argh!
We figured he was packing heat too so just said F it.

Anyway, I'll get off the soapbox after:
I dunno about others but I go into the wilderness for "fresher" air
and peace and quiet and solitude... thus the disdain for the
"necessity" of campfires and bringing fido.

I'll send some love in the Orchid thread with a flower...
but looks like Master eeeeek has gone mad with multiple flower posts...
avatar Re: Dogs
March 27, 2009 10:19AM
bill-e-g wrote:

> I like the shorter answer.
>
> Unfortunately IMO they are allowed almost anywhere else outside
> the
> park in the wilderness. I'm an animal lover at I get it ....
> but I almost
> feel that even "homo stupidus" (us) shouldn't even be allowed
> in at times.

They allow horses. Aren't there even a few mounted ranger patrols?

> The best example is some wack-a-doodle guy with GOATS! and his
> "guard dog" heading into Matterhorn Canyon. When I said "yo,
> bro,
> pets aint allowed in the park" his response was simply "it's
> not a pet,
> it's a guard dog".... nevermind the goats... argh!
> We figured he was packing heat too so just said F it.

Not 100% what the rules are on that. Grazing isn't allowed in Yosemite campgrounds. Any animals are supposed to be eating feed. I know horses, mules, and donkeys are allowed. Lllamas are specifically mentioned, with specific areas where they aren't allowed.

> Anyway, I'll get off the soapbox after:
> I dunno about others but I go into the wilderness for
> "fresher" air
> and peace and quiet and solitude... thus the disdain for the
> "necessity" of campfires and bringing fido.

Wilderness areas in the US are multi-use. It would probably freak me out, but plinking is popular in some areas. Some people legally hunt in wilderness areas.

avatar Re: Dogs
March 27, 2009 07:15AM
forrestranger wrote:

and if so, am i required to pick up her
> poop along the way?
>

Is this a serious question?





The cure for a fallacious argument is a better argument, not the suppression of ideas.
-- Carl Sagan
avatar Re: Dogs
March 27, 2009 07:18AM
This is at Parker Pass:

avatar Re: Dogs
March 27, 2009 07:24AM
btw... the bottom sign says "no pets or firearms" ...
I'll spare you the signs at the north entrance where "it's not a pet guy was"...
smiling smiley
avatar Re: Dogs
March 27, 2009 07:27AM

Additional info regarding dogs in link below:
1. apparently you can get your dog a room at Yosemite Lodge
2. there are kennels at the stables

http://www.yosemiteresorts.us/visit/Dogs%20in%20Yosemite%20National%20Park.pdf





The cure for a fallacious argument is a better argument, not the suppression of ideas.
-- Carl Sagan
avatar Re: Dogs
March 27, 2009 07:34AM
>forrestranger wrote:
>
>and if so, am i required to pick up her
>> poop along the way?
>>
>
>Is this a serious question?
>
>Frank Furter

Ok... I can't resist...

The answer is that you actually have to dig a cat hole and make your
dog go in it. It must be 100 ft. from water or trail.

(I'm a cat person)
smiling smiley

I guess Doggie diapers are ok.
avatar Re: Dogs
March 27, 2009 08:52AM
Wilderness areas under the jurisdiction of the Forest Service (USDA) do allow dogs. The following was copied from a FAQ link on their website:


Can I have dogs in the campgrounds and trails?

Your canine companions are welcome in National Forests. The few rules that apply to dogs are meant to assure that you and other National Forest visitors have an enjoyable outdoor recreation experience. Please practice the following, (these rules will be enforced in developed reaction areas). If you are traveling in a National Forest Wilderness, dogs are permitted. However, if you leave a National Forest Wilderness and enter into a National Park, dogs are not permitted.

Leave vicious or unusually noisy dogs at home.
Please keep your dog on a leash no more than 6 feet long, or otherwise restrict its freedom to roam at will.
At night keep your dogs and other pets inside an enclosed vehicle or in a tent.
Developed campgrounds are for people, not animals. Please do not bring more than two dogs or other pet to any one campsite.
Do not bring dogs onto developed swimming beaches, even if they are restrained. Guide dogs are an exception.



Post Edited (03-27-09 08:52)



THE YOSEMITE POST
Voice of the Rocky Marmot Empire
avatar Re: Dogs
March 27, 2009 09:58AM
thanks for all of your replies... it cleared up a lot of my questions.
Re: Dogs
March 27, 2009 10:57AM
>They allow horses. Aren't there even a few mounted ranger patrols?

Don't get me started on horses...

Typically Rangers on Patrol are not on horses in Yosemite.
If you see a ranger on a horse he/she is probably going directly to or from
a Ranger Cabin in the backcountry. Or heading to a spike camp.
Now I said typically so maybe you have seen one but that is def. not the
normal method of operation.
avatar Re: Dogs
March 27, 2009 11:18AM
joe_schmo wrote:

> >They allow horses. Aren't there even a few mounted ranger
> patrols?
>
> Don't get me started on horses...
>
> Typically Rangers on Patrol are not on horses in Yosemite.
> If you see a ranger on a horse he/she is probably going
> directly to or from
> a Ranger Cabin in the backcountry. Or heading to a spike
> camp.

Maybe not in Yosemite. I haven't actually seen a mounted LE ranger in Yosemite, but I did see one in Grand Canyon. And the guy was aggressive. He slapped the back of the horse and it took off. This was even in a populated area.

> Now I said typically so maybe you have seen one but that is
> def. not the
> normal method of operation.

I certainly read about how early Army patrols of Yosemite were on horseback. They had to deal with a lot of stuff like illegal logging, mining operations, and poaching. Right now aren't there worries about illegal pot farms?

Re: Dogs
March 27, 2009 10:59AM
>what is considered a wilderness area?

In direct response to this... see the sign above.
I don't know of any TH that don't have a similar sign.

So... even by the time you've hit the bridge below vernal you are in
the wilderness... um... per sey
avatar Re: Dogs
March 27, 2009 11:15AM
joe_schmo wrote:

> >what is considered a wilderness area?
>
> In direct response to this... see the sign above.
> I don't know of any TH that don't have a similar sign.

I think my National Geographic Trails Illustrated map specifically marks where designated wilderness is.

Other NPS maps specifically mark where designated wilderness is. Here's an example, although they don't mark where dogs are allowed save a few beaches.

http://www.nps.gov/pore/planyourvisit/upload/map_park.pdf

In any case, it's pretty easy to figure out you're on a dirt trail in Yosemite and dogs aren't allowed.

> So... even by the time you've hit the bridge below vernal you
> are in
> the wilderness... um... per sey

The AAA Sierra Nevada-Yosemite Area map has a Yosemite Valley closeup area map. They use different shade of green to delineate the wilderness areas from the developed areas. In any case if you found yourself that far, it's not exactly going to be paved is it?
Re: Dogs
March 27, 2009 11:34AM
This one time in Band Camp...
avatar Re: Dogs
March 27, 2009 10:00PM
I don't mind dogs as long as it's a trail that isn't frequented, like the hike from Road's End to Paradise Valley in Kings Canyon. As long as your dogs are well-behaved, no biggie.

In Yosemite, NO DOGS thank you, the squirrels are bad enough.
avatar Re: Dogs
March 27, 2009 11:29PM
Vince wrote:

>he squirrels are bad enough.

Having been bit by one I have to agree.

avatar Re: Dogs
March 28, 2009 12:47AM
eeeek: >Having been bit by one I have to agree.<

nasty!! I have heard that they carry ticks and fleas, not sure if they hae a reputation for rabies, too.

B
avatar Re: Dogs
April 01, 2009 04:50PM
Bee wrote:

> eeeek: >Having been bit by one I have to agree.<
>
> nasty!! I have heard that they carry ticks and fleas, not sure
> if they hae a reputation for rabies, too.

It happened at the top of Nevada Falls. I was leaning back on my hands and it came up and bit my thumb while I wasn't looking. (Must have smelled like trail mix.) Didn't break the skin.

avatar Re: Dogs
March 28, 2009 04:51AM
>isn't frequented, like the hike from Road's End to Paradise Valley

Wha???

To Mist Falls gotta be the MOST used trail there....

You never did respond to my query of where you've been in Kings...
avatar Re: Dogs
March 30, 2009 05:03AM
bill-e-g wrote:

> >isn't frequented, like the hike from Road's End to Paradise
> Valley
>
> Wha???
>
> To Mist Falls gotta be the MOST used trail there....
>
> You never did respond to my query of where you've been in
> Kings...


Vince was too busy cleaning his two mountain guns (http://www.avalanchepress.com/German_Infantry_Guns.php?mode=print) to notice. He also had his gas mask on.



My personal favorite is the Copper Creek Trail out toward LoFM. (1+ mile elevation differential in 6.5 trail miles, no Mist Fall Trail that.) Copied from the 1923 Sierra Club Bulletin where the lake was immortalized:

THE LAKE OF THE FALLEN MOON
By Frank Ernest Hill

All day the thundering of water fills
That throat of rock beneath the peaks. All day
The pines hear, and the trail that wears a way
Between the snows of lonely granite hills

Rarely, in gold of dying afternoons,
Bronzed riders driving mules from grass to grass
Peer up the booming canon as they pass,
And see a glitter like a fallen moon’s

Far off, between the dark of woven trees.
Some say that there white chains of water fall
Down a sheer thousand feet of mountain wall,
Smiting a lake of black-brimmed mysteries

To restless light. And men might track the gleam
From ledge to ledge, and reach the canon floor,
And sprawl in misted ferns beneath the roar
And monstrous magic foaming of the stream….

They gaze and gaze, but it is far to go
Till shale and summit die in meadow flowers;
There is a tyranny of jealous hours
Denies them beauty that they yearn to know.

All day the thundering water shakes the pines
Tossing in foam against the granite wall;
Rare passing riders linger at its call
And search the woven branches where it shines;

Always they gaze and wonder, always pass,
Driving beneath the peaks from grass to grass.



Post Edited (03-30-09 05:59)



THE YOSEMITE POST
Voice of the Rocky Marmot Empire
avatar Re: Dogs
March 28, 2009 08:07AM
Hi Bill, sorry, some of the entries on this thread were a little long and I didn't read the whole thing.

When I get back from Coloma/Daffodil Hill tonight I'll put together a collection of the sights and sounds from Kings Canyon. I've been on all the well-worn trails, unfortunately every time I've been to the canyon it's only been a 3-day weekend, so no overnighters, plus I usually mix in Sequoia Park with a quickie loop from Visalia up and around and back out to Fresno.

Cya in a bit
avatar Re: Dogs
March 28, 2009 09:39AM
When I see a dog, I wonder "Is he going to bite? Is he going to jump on me, lick me, try to get my food, etc." Or maybe I'm out just trying to enjoy some solitude and a dog approaches me, forcing a conversation between me and the dogs owners.

They are one of the quickest and surest ways to ruin my outdoors experience.

Forrestranger, this isn't directed at you, per se because you had the respect to ask, but the topic brought up strong feelings on the subject.

avatar Re: Dogs
March 28, 2009 10:02AM
sierranomad wrote:

> When I see a dog, I wonder "Is he going to bite? Is he going to
> jump on me, lick me, try to get my food, etc."

This is what you Americans call satire, yes?

How about cats? You would really love the mountain lion that I occasionally see about 20 yards up the hillside from my back door.
avatar Re: Dogs
March 28, 2009 12:15PM
I would actually love to see a mountain lion in the wild. Does anybody ever call them a Puma anymore or is that technically a different type of mountain cat?

Jim
avatar Re: Dogs
March 28, 2009 12:23PM
tomdisco wrote:

> I would actually love to see a mountain lion in the wild.

I saw one once. But I suspect they've seen me many times.

avatar Re: Dogs
March 28, 2009 08:54PM
szalkowski wrote:

> sierranomad wrote:
>
> > When I see a dog, I wonder "Is he going to bite? Is he going
> to
> > jump on me, lick me, try to get my food, etc."
>
> This is what you Americans call satire, yes?
>
> How about cats? You would really love the mountain lion that I
> occasionally see about 20 yards up the hillside from my back
> door.

I find it amusing to consider the consequences of a cat that can eat a dog.
Scene: Dog is chasing cat; chase rounds a corner and dog stops-- there is a cougar; roles suddenly reversed!





The cure for a fallacious argument is a better argument, not the suppression of ideas.
-- Carl Sagan
avatar Re: Dogs
March 28, 2009 12:40PM
tomdisco: Does anybody ever call them a Puma anymore or is that technically a different type of mountain cat?

it is still used; an older more formal english translation, used by folks walking around with dictionaries winking smiley Kind of like using the term "veranda" instead of porch.

There is a resident catamount (another antiquated term) on the property that I live at part of the year. I have been cautioned against running at dawn and dusk by the neighbors because that is when they are most likely to be seen.

B
avatar Re: Dogs
March 28, 2009 07:11PM
Bee,

See http://www.catamountsports.com/generel/011250aag.html

Leave it to North Carolinians to claim they were the first to use the moniker "catamount".

Jim
avatar Re: Dogs
March 28, 2009 07:15PM
O.K., when you hit my URL it claims this page does not exist. Bull! Just Google catamounts and click on "What is a catamount?"

Damned computer world!

Jim
avatar Re: Dogs
March 28, 2009 07:15PM
tomdisco wrote:

> Leave it to North Carolinians to claim they were the first to
> use the moniker "catamount".

Perhaps they are confusing it with catamite?

avatar Re: Dogs
March 28, 2009 07:19PM
avatar Re: Dogs
March 28, 2009 07:20PM
I give up. Forget it!

Jim
avatar Re: Dogs
March 28, 2009 07:23PM
avatar Re: Dogs
March 28, 2009 07:23PM
tomdisco wrote:

> O.K.,
>
> It's operator error.
>
> Try http://www.catamountsports.com/genrel/011250aag.html

Looks like a bit of dyslexia crept in:

http://www.catamountsports.com/genrel/011205aag.html

avatar Re: Dogs
March 28, 2009 07:25PM
eeek,

It's all that sleep deprivation at three in the morning.

Jim
avatar Re: Dogs
March 28, 2009 07:29PM
tomdisco wrote:

> It's all that sleep deprivation at three in the morning.

My insomnia was bad last night and I'm leaving for Yosemite at 0730 tomorrow. Wake me up when we get their!

avatar Re: Dogs
March 28, 2009 07:31PM
eeek,

It will be 10:30 here so no problem, I'll wake you up.

Jim
avatar Re: Dogs
March 28, 2009 08:02PM
eeek: Wake me up when we get their!

thats almost the dont bother to go to bed so youre ready to go bright and early situation!


>catamite<

to the dictionary, again....!

Not there in American Heritage, what is 'catamite' ?

you NC folk sure take your catamount verrrry seriously!

B



Post Edited (03-28-09 20:05)



The body betrays and the weather conspires, hopefully, not on the same day.
avatar Re: Dogs
March 28, 2009 08:36PM
Bee wrote:

> >catamite<
>
> to the dictionary, again....!
>
> Not there in American Heritage, what is 'catamite' ?

Try Wikipedia.

avatar Re: Dogs
March 28, 2009 08:53PM
eeeek: >Try Wikipedia.<

face red

need new dictionary..

B
avatar Re: Dogs
March 28, 2009 09:01PM
Bee wrote:

> need new dictionary..

I looked into subscribing to the OED. Then I looked at the price and fainted.

avatar Re: Dogs
March 28, 2009 09:06PM
eeeek: >I looked into subscribing to the OED. Then I looked at the price and fainted.<

the joke was on me (as it usually is) about carrying a dictionary -- I have one at all times, because there is a whole second layer to the english language that defies me.

I have this beautiful edition of Webster's Encyclopedic Dictionary, but it weighs about 15 lbs...(wont fit in my backpack)

I used to have an online dictionary, but they recinded the free status and it became a morgage!

B
avatar Re: Dogs
March 28, 2009 09:08PM
Bee wrote:

> I used to have an online dictionary, but they recinded the free
> status and it became a morgage!

The OED is $295/year. Way too much for me.

avatar Re: Dogs
March 28, 2009 09:23PM
I'll bet cornhobble isn't in your dictionary.

avatar Re: Dogs
March 28, 2009 11:39PM
eeeek: I'll bet cornhobble isn't in your dictionary

Cornflower, Cornhusk... It is not! Piece of crap, overweight, compendium of useless words!

off to Wikipedia...

>The OED is $295/year. Way too much for me.<

way too much for anyone who likes a decent meal, besides!

meanwhile..

cornhobble: to strike someone else with a fish, especially in the face.
"aye swabby, watch the jib or I'll cornhobble ya!"

(where on EARTH do you get these words?!)

B



Post Edited (03-28-09 23:46)



The body betrays and the weather conspires, hopefully, not on the same day.
avatar Re: Dogs
March 29, 2009 06:30AM
Bee wrote:

> (where on EARTH do you get these words?!)

Some of them come from listening to Public Radio so much. Especially Says You.

avatar Re: Dogs
March 29, 2009 05:03PM
Bee, "cornhobble: to strike someone else with a fish, especially in the face.
"aye swabby, watch the jib or I'll cornhobble ya!" ".


Bee, I can't help but to pass this on:

"You can't judge a pirate by the sound of his 'Arrrs' nor the size of his booty."
Sponge Bob Squarepants





Old Dude
avatar Re: Dogs
March 29, 2009 08:00AM
eeeek: Some of them come from listening to Public Radio so much

ahhh -- like me quoting Science Friday ad naseum(especially when they talk about melting icebergs) Love NPR.

well, as I write this, you are well on your way Shan-gri-la (yosemite).....oh what Id give to burn this keyboard and escape...!

B
avatar Re: Dogs
March 29, 2009 09:43PM
Bee wrote:

> well, as I write this, you are well on your way Shan-gri-la
> (yosemite).....oh what Id give to burn this keyboard and
> escape...!

Yosemite Falls is roarting; the wildflowers along 140 are amazing; I'm hoping the stupid people will be gone tomorrow.

avatar Re: Dogs
March 29, 2009 08:42AM
On---ironically?---Dog Valley Road a little north of Truckee

avatar Re: Dogs
March 29, 2009 05:29PM
mrcondron: "You can't judge a pirate by the sound of his 'Arrrs' nor the size of his booty." Sponge Bob Squarepants

Very clever play on words! smiling smiley

B
avatar Re: Dogs
March 29, 2009 05:34PM
This was an actual piece of dialog on the SBSP children's cartoon show.





Old Dude
avatar Re: Dogs
March 30, 2009 03:05PM
mrcondron wrote:

> This was an actual piece of dialog on the SBSP children's
> cartoon show.
>


When I was growing up, I was always a big fan of "The Rocky and Bullwinkle Show." The writers loved putting in horrible puns and plays on words:

Beginning of one adventure. Rocket J. Squirrel and Bullwinkle Moose are sailing a toy boat in a pond in their hometown of Frostbite Falls. A deep red colored sailboat bumps into their boat. The name "Omar Khayyam" is on the stern. They pick the sailboat up out of the water and examine it.
R.: Golly, Bullwinkle! Do you realize what this is?
B.: Uh, no Rocky.
R.: Why this must be the ruby yacht of Omar Khayyam!



Post Edited (03-30-09 15:17)



THE YOSEMITE POST
Voice of the Rocky Marmot Empire
avatar Re: Dogs
March 29, 2009 05:37PM
avatar Re: Dogs
March 29, 2009 07:14PM
mrcondron: This was an actual piece of dialog on the SBSP children's cartoon show.

It been my experience that cartoons are full of innuendo and double entendere. Really bad to break in laughter around nieces and nephews during cartoons, and they have no clue. I think they put it there to keep those of us adults who are forced to watch them, amused winking smiley I once heard an NPR interview with some old cartoonists, and they admitted that they had contests to see how much adult funny stuff they could slip into the children's hour.

B
avatar Re: Dogs
March 29, 2009 10:53PM
eeeek: Yosemite Falls is roarting; the wildflowers along 140 are amazing; I'm hoping the stupid people will be gone tomorrow.

this sounds SOOOOOOOO nice (except the stupid people). I am beside myself here; its windy, dry, ugly...and I am stuck indoors besides it all. It almost makes me want to turn on one of those fake environmental CD's with the waterfall roar.

B



Post Edited (03-30-09 00:24)



The body betrays and the weather conspires, hopefully, not on the same day.
avatar Re: Dogs
March 30, 2009 06:51AM
>Vince was too busy cleaning his two mountain guns

>My personal favorite is the Copper Creek Trail out toward LoFM.

To make it blatantly clear I was calling him out for an obvious incorrect statement.
And wanted to know where he actually hiked to since he said that.
He obviously loves Kings Canyon b/c it can be pretty empty on the
non holiday weekends. (avoid on Labor Day I'll tell u that...)
I'll fairly certain that is where the "Kings Canyon is better" comes from.

Myself, I have not been up Copper Creek yet... this is on my list of todos
but def. a solo one... been looking at Granite Basin, etc. for a couple years now..

Have you been up Sphinx Lakes? I like pain so if I can fit it in I was
going to do some crazy crap like up Shpinx and xcountry all the way to
Lake Reflection...

How about Window Peak? Have you seen that?
avatar Re: Dogs
March 30, 2009 09:09AM
bill-e-g wrote:


> To make it blatantly clear I was calling him out for an obvious
> incorrect statement.
> And wanted to know where he actually hiked to since he said
> that.


I know... the mountain gun link & photo were just too good to pass up though. Vince seems to spend much more time driving around in his Bronco than he does in actual hiking.


> Myself, I have not been up Copper Creek yet... this is on my
> list of todos
> but def. a solo one... been looking at Granite Basin, etc.
> for a couple years now..

Unless you have a friend that was on the Bataan Death March, solo is best. Recommend that you camp at Lower Tent Meadow the first night - no good camping site between there and the unnamed pass into Granite Basin. I'll have to dig out the file, but if you want, send me your email address (mine is listed in my profile) and I'll email you some photos from the last hike that I took up there.


> Have you been up Sphinx Lakes? I like pain so if I can fit it
> in I was
> going to do some crazy crap like up Shpinx and xcountry all
> the way to
> Lake Reflection...
>
> How about Window Peak? Have you seen that?

No and no.

Talked my son into doing the Rae Lakes loop this past year (early October, caught the southern edge of a storm and had complete snow coverage about the last 700 vertical ft. going up over Glen Pass).

Some years ago, hiked up to Kings from Lodgepole in Sequoia. Was supposed to come in via the Don Cecil trail but loggers in the Nat. Forest wiped out all traces of it (they are supposed to mark it with flags) and ended up following a creek down to the river several miles downriver from Cedar Grove and fording it after nightfall with the "help" of about 10 rangers who shot across a line to me. Again October and a slew of them just happened to be there shutting down the Cedar Grove station for the winter. A passerby saw me scouting out a spot to ford and alerted them. I was their last "save" of the year and everyone wanted to get in on it. The river was so low I could have come across the next morning with little problem.



Post Edited (03-30-09 09:11)



THE YOSEMITE POST
Voice of the Rocky Marmot Empire
avatar Re: Dogs
March 30, 2009 09:44AM
email adx is in my profile too...

Yeah, had the same experience on Rae Lakes loop in early Oct.
Busted my nut and did the loop in 2 days. Pretty difficult over Glen Pass
post-holing up to thigh. You probably had the same enjoyment.
At least/luckily for me the clockwise loop S. of Glen wasn't too bad snow-wise.

Only been to SEKI backpacking a handful of times... although luckily those
have been 4+ day trips sans the Rae Lakes experience.... and have seen
alot of the park...
BUT there is SOOOOO much more to explore there...

Please post or email some photos... would love to see them
avatar Re: Dogs
March 30, 2009 10:42AM
bill-e-g wrote:

> email adx is in my profile too...


Email address isn't showing up when I click on your name. Seem to recall that it is normally blocked unless you specify otherwise in your profile.
avatar Re: Dogs
March 30, 2009 11:12AM
True. It's not blocked anymore.
Please people... no hate mail tho...
smiling smiley
avatar Re: Dogs
March 30, 2009 06:00PM
Bill-e-g: >I like pain so if I can fit it in I was going to do some crazy crap like up Shpinx and xcountry all the way to
Lake Reflection...<

I read somewhere on the Urban Legends Thread that you have hiked 40 mi in a day? (I sometimes mix things up) My last great effort on mountain pain was doing the Dipsea Double run (Muir woods-mt Tam-Stinson beach and back again) the pain was good for a week...!

>Please people... no hate mail tho...smiling smiley<

Just jealous 'cause you can hike so far!

B



Post Edited (03-30-09 18:04)



The body betrays and the weather conspires, hopefully, not on the same day.
avatar Re: Dogs
March 30, 2009 08:40PM
Bee,
Here is the actual urban legend: (and it's true)

Bill-e-g drove from San Jose Saturday morning, hiked the first half the Rae Lakes loop, slept, hiked the second half Sunday, and drove back to San Jose Sunday. He has time stamped pictures.

The untrue urban legend is that he didn't eat anything on the trip.

That's about
[24] 19 miles per day with an average +5K' on Saturday and -5K' Sunday.



Post Edited (03-31-09 02:45)



Old Dude
avatar Re: Dogs
March 31, 2009 12:38AM
mrcondron wrote:

> Bee,
> Here is the actual urban legend: (and it's true)
>
> Bill-e-g drove from San Jose Saturday morning, hiked the first
> half the Rae Lakes loop, slept, hiked the second half Sunday,
> and drove back to San Jose Sunday. He has time stamped
> pictures.
> That's about 24 miles per day with +5K' on Saturday and -5K'
> Sunday.

Actually, the basic loop is about 37 miles. Going CW (there's a topic phrase for Bee's Cafe), Rae Lakes is about 20 miles from Roads End with an elevation differential of around 5.5k. Another 1.5k climb takes you over Glen Pass before heading back down to Roads End.

Aside to Dale: you can probably ignore my previous comment re. Lower Tent Meadow on the Copper Creek Trail. Even with a full pack, you should be able to make Granite Basin in one day. (After driving up from L.A. and not hitting the trailhead before 10 AM at the earliest, I'll be damned if I'm going any further on the first day. Besides, in keeping with the thread, being dog-tired.)



Post Edited (03-31-09 01:36)



THE YOSEMITE POST
Voice of the Rocky Marmot Empire
avatar Re: Dogs
March 30, 2009 08:07PM
Bee,
first of all...
whoof

(so that a bunch o people don't bark ... hahaha..
about this being sooo of topic)

40 miles. Yeah... no.. that's an urban legend. Have never hit that figure.

Let me just tell you a little story to put things into perspective.
First of all, I'm from the flatlands of Wisconsin. Skiied alot when I
was "growing up"... and those hills... well, no way you would call them
mountains..
The very first time the wife and I went to Yosemite 20 years ago we
were like deer in headlights. We hiked up the Mist Trail to Emerald Pool
and a buddy of mine and myself swam in the pool (there were no
'don't swim in here' signs then). Well that hike up to Vernal was HARD!
It was hotter than the bejesus and it was take one step, wait.....
repeat.... because of the number of people going up it.
Well, near the Emerald Pool is the sign to Nevada Falls. We took a look at
that and said "well, I guess we are never going to get to there in
our lifetimes...". and the top of Half Dome... hahaha! no way
Actually, we mistook Mount Watkins for Half Dome when we were swimming
in Mirror Lake (it was a pretty impressive lake then). Some little kid
goes ...no, it's THAT... we still go "d'uoh! on that one...".

The great thing about Yosemite is that there is sooo many options and
destinations for various level of pain. Sure, I can hike up 5000ft and
25 miles and be at some wonderous spot... but I can also hike
2 miles with minimal gain and be at just as nice a spot.
Like I mentioned before my best guess would be the average people
backpacking in yosemite is about 6 miles.

It's ALL good.

btw ... we owe Mike more than "all the money in the world" ... he got us
into this which has been a passion for us for about 15 years now...
smiling smiley
avatar Re: Dogs
March 30, 2009 08:57PM
bill-e-g:>(so that a bunch o people don't bark ... hahaha..
about this being sooo off topic)<

(some time I'm gonna open my own thread called "Bee's Cafe" and anytime I swerve off topic, I will export the conversation there) (no spiders allowed!)

bill-e-g:>The very first time the wife and I went to Yosemite 20 years ago we
were like deer in headlights<

I KNOW the look-- I thought that I was on another planet. I get so overwhelmed that I have trouble sticking to plans and just keep going and going until its too late to salvage the fact that a large part of the return trip will be in the dark. Most folks will not hike with me because of my rep for 'death marches' with little to no food (I have unusually low apetite)(even the boyfriend says 'no way' to a hike, usually)

mrcondron: >That's about 24 miles per day with +5K' on Saturday and -5K' Sunday.<

Is this comparable to Half Dome in a day? There is where I met my waterloo(I finished, but, I dont remember much of the return)

B



Post Edited (03-31-09 00:48)



The body betrays and the weather conspires, hopefully, not on the same day.
avatar Re: Dogs
March 31, 2009 07:09AM
>Actually, the basic loop is about 37 miles.

Yeah, you get all kinds of mileage out there. The Kings Canyon book I have
by Mike White says 38.9 miles for the loop.
I've read some stuff of people dayhiking the whole loop too.
I actually like to stop and smell the Orchids smiling smiley every once in awhile and
take a siesta for a bit.
Plenty of PCTers are doing 30 miles a day so this is nothing extraordinary...

Len, your advice is heeded... It's "only" 8 miles...
But ... "the best laid plans of mice and men..."
South facing... brutally hot... 1 mile up...
And the DOGS WILL BE TALKING on the way down...!

Thanks!
avatar Re: Dogs
April 01, 2009 12:16PM
i hiked up to Vernal Falls on monday (3/30/09)... and guess what i saw right away? people walking their dogs on the trail!! one of them let their dog run free without a leash even.. i couldn't believe it, signs every where of no dogs allowed.
avatar Re: Dogs
April 01, 2009 06:17PM
eeek: >It happened at the top of Nevada Falls<

Such a "surprise" may have sent me over the falls winking smiley

b
avatar Re: Dogs
April 02, 2009 06:56AM
Those little guys at Vernal and Nevada are also experts at raiding your pack for goodies if you snooze or look the other way. They expect to be fed by humans and if it's not forthcoming they take matters into their own paws.

Jim
avatar Re: Dogs
April 09, 2009 01:47PM
This is for Mike:

I found it in the Superintendents Compendium:

A pirate walks into a bar with a steering wheel in his pants - The bartender asks "whats up with the steering wheel buddy ?" The pirate says "aaargh, I dunno - its drivin' me nuts"
avatar Re: Dogs
April 28, 2009 02:21PM
I think there is yet another sign on the other side of the High Sierra Trail sign also.
And... we did see a dog at the top of Nevada on our way to Diving Board. Argh!!

avatar Re: Dogs
April 28, 2009 02:42PM
I can remember when Sierra Point was listed on that sign. They should fix the trail and put it back!
avatar Re: Dogs
April 28, 2009 02:56PM
They would have to put up all kinds of railings... and the lookout point is pretty small.
...
But... what a view... smiling smiley
avatar Re: Dogs
April 28, 2009 08:14PM
Quote
eeek
I can remember when Sierra Point was listed on that sign. They should fix the trail and put it back!

I'll be on it this Sunday!!! I can't wait!!!
avatar Re: Dogs
April 28, 2009 09:17PM
Quote
Dan-O
I'll be on it this Sunday!!! I can't wait!!!

Try not to fall down too much. My hand still hurts a bit. But I was off the trail a lot.
avatar Re: Dogs
May 05, 2009 05:59PM
Quote
eeek
Quote
Dan-O
I'll be on it this Sunday!!! I can't wait!!!

Try not to fall down too much. My hand still hurts a bit. But I was off the trail a lot.

It was very slippery!! Especially since it was raining lightly!!

I sat up on the point with nobody around, I didn't see anyone the entire hike. I felt like a rebel leaving the JMT and heading up the rockfall. People were looking at me like I was crazy!!
avatar Re: Dogs
May 05, 2009 06:12PM
Where's the pictures?
avatar Re: Dogs
May 05, 2009 09:18PM
Only had my cell phone...once I download them I'll post them up.
avatar Re: Dogs
May 06, 2009 01:40AM
Personally, I'm waiting for Forrest to post a picture of his dog wearing those sunglasses.
avatar Re: Dogs
May 06, 2009 10:39AM
Can we have the one with him on the water skis?
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