Re: Half Dome Cable extra chits?

I just talked to a friend who did the Half Dome hike on Friday. They got in very late the night before, because the construction delay on route 41 was much worse than reported...several hours long. Anyway, they got a relatively late start, and had an member of their foursome turn out to be unexpectedly slow, so they hit the cables at the worst possible time, i.e. noonish. And there was almost no one there. They passed only one slow hiker on the way up the cables, and passed no descending people at all on the way down, just a handful of people going up. This is amazing, if you remember the zoo it was like on any July Friday last year.

They also said that the rangers at the cable reported only 200 of the 400 permits had been exercised that day, and that they had been handed 45 unused chits by the ones that did show up! Does anyone know what this means? Can you just walk up there and ask if there are any unused chits?

Perhaps Friday is different, because people who ask for the four person maximum reservations are too optimistic about when their friends can get off work. Still, this seems like a lot of wasted capacity on this reserved hiking trail.

I'm sure the rangers don't mind.

The policy is the permits are not transferable but who knows what the practice will be.

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Old Dude

Sounds like people got 4 tickets and only used two of them. They handed the unused
tickets to the ranger. They got what I expected. Heck, I even ordered some... and
I know I can't make it the weekend after this one coming up.
From what I heard you can give the tickets to anyone you want. Why would they
check an id? There was no fee for the ticket.

If I HAD to go up Fri-Sun and didn't have a ticket I'd just hang out where the
trail goes up at LYV and keep asking for one. Bound to get one eventually.

If you don't like the way it is run you need to complain or submit some idea to them.
(there was some way to do it) (I'm not saying you do... )

Sounds like the insanity has calmed on the cables on the weekends. I'd expect them
to continue the same thing or very very similar next year.

Just please please please please!!! do not do what SEKI does and start charging
for overnight wilderness permits.

OK, but the question remains: What happens to the unused tickets that are handed to the rangers at the cables? They may not be transferable by you, but they might be by the authorities. Especially if no one is looking over their shoulders, and there is no ID listed on the tickets.

I have never seen one of these tickets. I had imagined that it was like a wilderness permit, one piece of paper with an authorized headcount listed. So there are actual individual tickets that you get in the mail?

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wherever
OK, but the question remains: What happens to the unused tickets that are handed to the rangers at the cables? They may not be transferable by you, but they might be by the authorities. Especially if no one is looking over their shoulders, and there is no ID listed on the tickets.

I have never seen one of these tickets. I had imagined that it was like a wilderness permit, one piece of paper with an authorized headcount listed. So there are actual individual tickets that you get in the mail?

Apparently yes, according to some posting here who have secured a permit. I imagined there would be quite a few no shows. I was thinking maybe 300 per day being used, but didn't quite imagine 200.

This really isn't working out. I'm pretty sure that the non-permit days are probably heavier with HD traffic than at least most Fridays. They need something else, although I suppose "overbooking" isn't going to work unless they're prepared to issue more permits with the understanding that some days might be almost 600.

Well, I'll bet that Friday is a special case. They could issue more tickets for Fridays, just based on this year's statistics for no-shows. The airlines do it that way....

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wherever
Well, I'll bet that Friday is a special case. They could issue more tickets for Fridays, just based on this year's statistics for no-shows. The airlines do it that way....

And, unlike the airlines, issuing a few more than the quota wouldn't really hurt.

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eeek

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wherever
Well, I'll bet that Friday is a special case. They could issue more tickets for Fridays, just based on this year's statistics for no-shows. The airlines do it that way....

And, unlike the airlines, issuing a few more than the quota wouldn't really hurt.

When airlines overbook, people with reservations get bumped off the flight. I've heard that they start with voluntary bumps with compensation, followed by involuntary ones. Either way is well compensated.

I suppose the worst that could happen is that they issue 500 permits and 95% of them are used. That probably wouldn't be that much worse than a non-permit day.

I think they ARE transferable. No problem.

They look like this:



They also put up signs at the trailhead:



If anyone wants 4 for the 13th....

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bill-e-g
I think they ARE transferable. No problem.

They look like this:



They also put up signs at the trailhead:



If anyone wants 4 for the 13th....

Triskaidekaphobia?

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Bearproof
Triskaidekaphobia?

... or Paraskavedekatriaphobia?

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Bearproof
Triskaidekaphobia?

Nah... taking on a boating and peak bagging trip in Northern Yosemite

I and 4 others climbed Half Dome on Saturday, July 30. We got our HD permits when we picked up our backcountry permit in the Wilderness Center. They are dated. There are 300 day use permits and 100 backcountry permits issued per day Friday through Sunday and all holidays. We arrived at the subdome on Saturday at 1100, coming from near Sunrise. There were not an exceptional number of people on the trail, but there were a couple dozen on the cables, some in both directions. The trip up the cables took about 25 minutes, less on the way down. I have seen pictures on weekends showing a ridiculous number of people trying to get up and down the cables at once. That was not our experience at all. I think alot of people are climbing HD on Monday through Thursday to avoid the permit issue altogether.
There were 2 rangers posted at the beginning of the subdome portion of the climb. We asked them how many people showed up this year without a permit and had to be turned away. To my utter surprise they stated that not a single person had yet been turned away, although many have shown up without permits, apparently not aware that one was needed, although the trail is well marked to notify you of the permit requirement. The rangers said that hikers are showing up with many extra and unused permits each day. They give them to the rangers, if not before to other hikers, who then pass them on to those without a permit. They clearly are transferring them from one person to the next in practice. I don't know what the rules say. From my experience the system is working well as long as they allow the permits to continue to be transferred. No huge weekend lines or safety concerns. If you really don't want the hassle of dealing with a permit then just don't go Fri thru Sun. Even if you don't get a permit it appears that you will be able to get up if you just wait for extras to become available to the subdome rangers. Hope this helps.

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mschaefer
There were 2 rangers posted at the beginning of the subdome portion of the climb. We asked them how many people showed up this year without a permit and had to be turned away. To my utter surprise they stated that not a single person had yet been turned away, although many have shown up without permits, apparently not aware that one was needed, although the trail is well marked to notify you of the permit requirement. The rangers said that hikers are showing up with many extra and unused permits each day. They give them to the rangers, if not before to other hikers, who then pass them on to those without a permit. They clearly are transferring them from one person to the next in practice. I don't know what the rules say. From my experience the system is working well as long as they allow the permits to continue to be transferred. No huge weekend lines or safety concerns. If you really don't want the hassle of dealing with a permit then just don't go Fri thru Sun. Even if you don't get a permit it appears that you will be able to get up if you just wait for extras to become available to the subdome rangers. Hope this helps.

It's pretty simple. There was no language on the permits or in the procedures to obtain permits that indicate that they are non-transferrable. They simply can't be sold.

The reasons for the permit system is to limit the number of people going up on peak days. If this is what they're doing, then it seems to have achieved that goal.

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y_p_w
The reasons for the permit system is to limit the number of people going up on peak days. If this is what they're doing, then it seems to have achieved that goal.

Agreed. It seems to be working well. Comforting to see that the rangers are being kind in passing on unused permits.

I hiked half dome on wednesday and it started to get real crowded around 10:30. I was coming down the cables and a teenage girl seized up and blocked both directions. Two guys worked their way down to her and guided her down. What a mess. I think it is just a matter of time before permits will be required everyday. It probably is a good thing.

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bugsinrugs
I hiked half dome on wednesday and it started to get real crowded around 10:30. I was coming down the cables and a teenage girl seized up and blocked both directions. Two guys worked their way down to her and guided her down. What a mess. I think it is just a matter of time before permits will be required everyday. It probably is a good thing.

How do you block BOTH directions? You just go around her. Two people can fit between the rails, and you can always go outside of them. So in what way did she block BOTH directions?

( I really need to do HD this summer and see what all the ruckus is about. Have things changed on the cables THAT much? )



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/10/2010 07:45PM by qumqats.

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qumqats

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bugsinrugs
I hiked half dome on wednesday and it started to get real crowded around 10:30. I was coming down the cables and a teenage girl seized up and blocked both directions. Two guys worked their way down to her and guided her down. What a mess. I think it is just a matter of time before permits will be required everyday. It probably is a good thing.

How do you block BOTH directions? You just go around her. Two people can fit between the rails, and you can always go outside of them. So in what way did she block BOTH directions?

( I really need to do HD this summer and see what all the ruckus is about. Have things changed on the cables THAT much? )

No one would go around her. I was with my daughter and her friend and felt I should stay with them.Lots of people don't feel comfortable going outside the cables .

If a hiker showed up with a permit from the previous day, is it likely they'd be allowed to go up? I was thinking a good excuse would be to say they started their hike around 11pm and took a long time to get there, which is why they're a day late.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/31/2010 10:32AM by JTK555.

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JTK555
If a hiker showed up with a permit from the previous day, is it likely they'd be allowed to go up? I was thinking a good excuse would be to say they started their hike around 11pm and took a long time to get there, which is why they're a day late.

Not on the previous day's permit. The permit is only for hiking above the subdome on the day for which it was issued.
(They undoubtedly wouldn't honor the permit for the dog that you brought along either... even if it was for the proper day.)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/31/2010 11:02AM by szalkowski.

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szalkowski
Not on the previous day's permit. The permit is only for hiking above the subdome on the day for which it was issued.
(They undoubtedly wouldn't honor the permit for the dog that you brought along either... even if it was for the proper day.)

Interesting. Everyone in my group has permits for the same day we're hiking. There are some other folks who want to join us, though, and they can only find permits for the day before or after we're hiking. That's why I was curious.

I suppose if they were to gamble on it, the best bet would be to use a permit for the day after. That way, the rangers would be able to save it and give it to another hiker the following day. I'll tell my other buddies to attempt this at their own risk.