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Re: Rangers Confront And Arrest Armed Driver

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avatar Rangers Confront And Arrest Armed Driver
April 26, 2011 11:43AM
Yosemite National Park (CA)
Rangers Confront And Arrest Armed Driver

A Valley shift seasonal ranger stopped a 1989 Jeep Cherokee at the Four Mile Trail trailhead on South Side Drive for a minor traffic violation on the afternoon of April 13th. The ranger contacted the three occupants and identified the driver, a 57-year-old man from Fresno. He was returning to the driver's side window after checking the license with dispatch when he saw that the driver was now holding a revolver on his lap. He immediately drew his weapon, retreated to his patrol car for cover, and radioed for backup. Several rangers and a special agent responded and conducted a high-risk stop, removing the driver and the two women with him without further incident. The man was arrested on several felony and misdemeanor charges, including the unlawful possession of a handgun by a convicted felon and possession of methamphetamine. One of the women was also arrested on multiple charges. Due to the decisive and quick actions of the ranger staff, this potentially violent contact was resolved without incident.
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avatar Re: Rangers Confront And Arrest Armed Driver
April 26, 2011 08:28PM
I'm glad the ranger retreated to safety instead of trying to handle it on his own. It's good that this ended with nobody getting hurt.
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jimbo
Re: Rangers Confront And Arrest Armed Driver
April 27, 2011 07:21AM
As a retired Deputy sheriff from Los Angeles, hearing about incidents like that send a chill up my spine. Great fast thinking on the Rangers part. Definately happy the Ranger wasn't hurt.
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Ulysses61
Re: Rangers Confront And Arrest Armed Driver
April 27, 2011 10:36AM
It's depressing and scary for me to think people like this are at the Four Mile trailhead, a place of such tranquil beauty. I always get sick when I drive past the area where Cary Staner adducted and murdered the female ranger in the park.
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Red Lipstick
Re: Rangers Confront And Arrest Armed Driver
April 27, 2011 12:31PM
You ever read "Murder at Yosemite" (I believe that's the title...have it here somewhere)? An interesting read.
There were/are tons of criminals that live in/aound the Sierras (I'm sure any mountainous area...great place to hide), hiding, with parole violations.

On my first Yosemite trip (around 2000, I believe), I was listening to the sentencing on the radio (Fresno station), while sitting in the valley.
Oddly enough, when news broke of them missing, it peaked my interest with the park (because of the scenery). Yes, I'm odd that way. I found the news frightening, but it rekindled my interest with camping. It was one of those forgotten things (Yosemite, in general) to do. KInd of silly, I know, but I wouldn't doubt that the murders actually helped advertize the park.

When it's just my son and I; I carry a buck knife and we wear whistles. I sleep with the buck knife opened up under my pillow. I'm a woman that loves to camp, but I'm not stupid about it. Bears don't scare me, people do. If it's dispersed camping, I always bring my Australian Shepherd. Best camping dog I've ever had. smiling smiley
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avatar Re: Rangers Confront And Arrest Armed Driver
April 27, 2011 12:42PM
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Red Lipstick
You ever read "Murder at Yosemite" (I believe that's the title...have it here somewhere)? An interesting read.

http://www.ske-art.com/skestuff9/0312974574
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jackolive
Re: Rangers Confront And Arrest Armed Driver
May 06, 2011 12:47AM
The link does not work?
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avatar Re: Rangers Confront And Arrest Armed Driver
May 07, 2011 02:31PM
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jackolive
The link does not work?

Just tried it and it worked fine.
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Red Lipstick
Re: Rangers Confront And Arrest Armed Driver
April 27, 2011 01:32PM
Thanks eek. Funny, you read the reviews, but I didn't find it bad. Not the greatest book I ever read, but interesting.
I actually like true crime on serial killers. The only time I get bored with them, is when it gets down to the court hearings. That's when the mystery is over and it becomes more technical...
The Green River Killer, was a good one. Sorry, I'm hijacking the post now. winking smiley



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/27/2011 01:32PM by Red Lipstick.
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fluxfluxa
Re: Rangers Confront And Arrest Armed Driver
April 29, 2011 11:51PM
Wow. Glad it was resolved without harm.
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DanPJ
Re: Rangers Confront And Arrest Armed Driver
April 30, 2011 09:16AM
I like that. Get caught. Go straight to court. Realistic sentence, and realistic fine. All wrapped up in the same day. I bet that saves the tax payers. She got off easy though.
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jackolive
Re: Rangers Confront And Arrest Armed Driver
April 30, 2011 12:21PM
Great job ranger! I think they did get off pretty easy though; throw them down the river.
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avatar Re: Rangers Confront And Arrest Armed Driver
May 04, 2011 08:56PM
I am a little puzzled by this report. The criminality of this event only became clear when it was later determined that the driver was a felon in possession of a firearm, which the ranger apparently did not know when he activated a high-risk stop protocol. If this had been someone without a criminal past, he would have been lawfully in possession of a firearm. Will this be the response to any individual displaying a gun in the National Parks? Will every traffic stop where a gun is detected become a multiple officer response situation?


The cure for a fallacious argument is a better argument, not the suppression of ideas.
-- Carl Sagan
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avatar Re: Rangers Confront And Arrest Armed Driver
May 04, 2011 09:40PM
The criminality was that the gun wasn't there, and then appeared. The conclusion the officer had to take is that he was about to be shot. His action was professional and called for. This incident could have easily ended far more tragically for all parties involved.
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avatar Re: Rangers Confront And Arrest Armed Driver
May 04, 2011 11:12PM
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Frank Furter
I am a little puzzled by this report. The criminality of this event only became clear when it was later determined that the driver was a felon in possession of a firearm, which the ranger apparently did not know when he activated a high-risk stop protocol. If this had been someone without a criminal past, he would have been lawfully in possession of a firearm. Will this be the response to any individual displaying a gun in the National Parks? Will every traffic stop where a gun is detected become a multiple officer response situation?

I believe in California it's still illegal to have a firearm in the passenger compartment of a vehicle and any weapon must be unloaded.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/04/2011 11:13PM by y_p_w.
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avatar Re: Rangers Confront And Arrest Armed Driver
May 05, 2011 05:06AM
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y_p_w
Quote
Frank Furter
I am a little puzzled by this report. The criminality of this event only became clear when it was later determined that the driver was a felon in possession of a firearm, which the ranger apparently did not know when he activated a high-risk stop protocol. If this had been someone without a criminal past, he would have been lawfully in possession of a firearm. Will this be the response to any individual displaying a gun in the National Parks? Will every traffic stop where a gun is detected become a multiple officer response situation?

I believe in California it's still illegal to have a firearm in the passenger compartment of a vehicle and any weapon must be unloaded.

I think you are on the right track here. Firearms capable of being concealed (rather than any firearm) may have been the issue here. It does not appear that rifles and shotguns are restricted in that regard, but handguns (except for certain situations) apparently must remain in locked containers or the locked trunk. In other words, unloaded long guns may be carried in the passenger compartment. It appears loaded weapons and concealable weapons (even unloaded) cannot be carried within the passenger compartment of a vehicle.

http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/forms/pdf/Cfl2006.pdf


The cure for a fallacious argument is a better argument, not the suppression of ideas.
-- Carl Sagan
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avatar Re: Rangers Confront And Arrest Armed Driver
May 05, 2011 09:49AM
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Frank Furter
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y_p_w
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Frank Furter
I am a little puzzled by this report. The criminality of this event only became clear when it was later determined that the driver was a felon in possession of a firearm, which the ranger apparently did not know when he activated a high-risk stop protocol. If this had been someone without a criminal past, he would have been lawfully in possession of a firearm. Will this be the response to any individual displaying a gun in the National Parks? Will every traffic stop where a gun is detected become a multiple officer response situation?

I believe in California it's still illegal to have a firearm in the passenger compartment of a vehicle and any weapon must be unloaded.

I think you are on the right track here. Firearms capable of being concealed (rather than any firearm) may have been the issue here. It does not appear that rifles and shotguns are restricted in that regard, but handguns (except for certain situations) apparently must remain in locked containers or the locked trunk. In other words, unloaded long guns may be carried in the passenger compartment. It appears loaded weapons and concealable weapons (even unloaded) cannot be carried within the passenger compartment of a vehicle.

http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/forms/pdf/Cfl2006.pdf

I checked out the 2007 version last night before I posted. However - that guide's section on transportation of firearms is pretty hard to follow. I found something a little more to the point:

http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/travel.php

Quote

Traveling with Firearms in California

HANDGUNS

California Penal Code section 12025 does not prevent a citizen of the United States over 18 years of age who is not lawfully prohibited from firearm possession, and who resides or is temporarily in California, from transporting by motor vehicle any pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable of being concealed upon the person provided the firearm is unloaded and stored in a locked container.

The term "locked container" means a secure container which is fully enclosed and locked by a padlock, key lock, combination lock, or similar locking device. This includes the trunk of a motor vehicle, but does not include the utility or glove compartment. For more information, refer to California Penal Code Section 12026.1.

SHOTGUNS AND RIFLES

Nonconcealable firearms (rifles and shotguns) are not generally covered within the provisions of California Penal Code section 12025 and therefore are not required to be transported in a locked container. However, as with any firearm, nonconcealable firearms must be unloaded while they are being transported. A rifle or shotgun that is defined as an assault weapon pursuant to Penal Code 12276 or 12276.1 must be transported in accordance with Penal Code section 12026.1.

REGISTERED ASSAULT WEAPONS

California Penal Code section 12285(c)(7) requires that registered assault weapons may be transported only between specified locations and must be unloaded and in a locked container when transported.

The term "locked container" means a secure container which is fully enclosed and locked by a padlock, key lock, combination lock, or similar locking device. This includes the trunk of a motor vehicle, but does not include the utility or glove compartment. For more information, refer to California Penal Code Section 12026.1.

As far as I can tell (I am not an attorney) the requirement is that any handgun would have to be transported unloaded in all cases, and either in a locked box in the passenger compartment or in a locked trunk. It probably gets more complicated if the vehicle doesn't have a defined trunk, as with an SUV or station wagon. I saw some interesting discussions on whether a pickup truck's bed box qualifies as a "utility compartment" or a "locked container'.

I remember the older NPS rule was that a firearm transported through an NPS unit had to be unloaded and rendered inoperable somehow (disassembled?).

Of course there is a category of person (i.e. law enforcement) where these restrictions don't apply.

The other thing about this incident is that from the description it sound like "brandishing". It was also concealed in the passenger compartment at one point. I'm also assuming it was loaded. That's easy enough for the ranger to arrest him on those actions alone.
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avatar Re: Rangers Confront And Arrest Armed Driver
May 05, 2011 12:16AM
Just an FYI... Up until last year, it was basically illegal to have a loaded firearm inside any National Park. But a new law took effect in February 2010 that eliminated the prohibition.

ABC News: Visitors to National Parks Can Now Carry Guns
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avatar Re: Rangers Confront And Arrest Armed Driver
May 05, 2011 01:03AM
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plawrence
Just an FYI... Up until last year, it was basically illegal to have a loaded firearm inside any National Park. But a new law took effect in February 2010 that eliminated the prohibition.

Doesn't really apply to California.
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avatar Re: Rangers Confront And Arrest Armed Driver
May 05, 2011 04:19AM
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eeek
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plawrence
Just an FYI... Up until last year, it was basically illegal to have a loaded firearm inside any National Park. But a new law took effect in February 2010 that eliminated the prohibition.

Doesn't really apply to California.

In what way?
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avatar Re: Rangers Confront And Arrest Armed Driver
May 05, 2011 05:27AM
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plawrence
Quote
eeek
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plawrence
Just an FYI... Up until last year, it was basically illegal to have a loaded firearm inside any National Park. But a new law took effect in February 2010 that eliminated the prohibition.

Doesn't really apply to California.

In what way?

In that California law still applies.
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avatar Re: Rangers Confront And Arrest Armed Driver
May 05, 2011 10:52AM
Of course, that's the whole point of the new law -- that local laws now apply also to National Parks that reside in the locality. But in California, it's always been legal to transport firearms in one's vehicle as long as you follow the laws regarding it (i.e. keeping the firearms unloaded; handguns inside a locked container or locked trunk, etc.)

Before the new law, firearms in general were prohibited inside most (if not all) National Parks.
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avatar Re: Rangers Confront And Arrest Armed Driver
May 05, 2011 03:34PM
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plawrence
Of course, that's the whole point of the new law -- that local laws now apply also to National Parks that reside in the locality. But in California, it's always been legal to transport firearms in one's vehicle as long as you follow the laws regarding it (i.e. keeping the firearms unloaded; handguns inside a locked container or locked trunk, etc.)

Before the new law, firearms in general were prohibited inside most (if not all) National Parks.

They were allowed if they were locked and/or otherwise temporarily inoperable. It was more than just transportation inside a vehicle. It does make sense that one normally wouldn't want to leave a firearm inside a vehicle, as it could be stolen when the vehicle is unattended.

http://www.peer.org/docs/nps/08_12_2_brief_history_nps_firearm_regs.pdf

Quote

In general, the current regulation prohibits the possession of weapons in parks but
provides several significant exceptions. One of the most significant exceptions allows
the possession of weapons in vehicles or in temporary lodging if the weapon is
temporarily inoperable or is packed, cased or stored. Thus the current NPS rule does not
impose a general ban on the possession of weapons or firearms.
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GreatRafter
Re: Rangers Confront And Arrest Armed Driver
May 08, 2011 11:28PM
Is Yosemite in "California" or is it consider federal land though?
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avatar Re: Rangers Confront And Arrest Armed Driver
May 09, 2011 10:02AM
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GreatRafter
Is Yosemite in "California" or is it consider federal land though?

Both.
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tanngrisnir3
Re: Rangers Confront And Arrest Armed Driver
May 06, 2011 12:51AM
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Frank Furter
I am a little puzzled by this report. The criminality of this event only became clear when it was later determined that the driver was a felon in possession of a firearm, which the ranger apparently did not know when he activated a high-risk stop protocol. If this had been someone without a criminal past, he would have been lawfully in possession of a firearm. Will this be the response to any individual displaying a gun in the National Parks? Will every traffic stop where a gun is detected become a multiple officer response situation?

Are you kidding me? Did you read it correctly?

Anytime I pull anyone over, and I work in LA, if I see ANY type of weapon in the open, and especially w/in reach of ANY occupant, that becomes a guns-up, high-risk stop. Period.
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avatar Re: Rangers Confront And Arrest Armed Driver
May 06, 2011 05:42AM
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tanngrisnir3
Quote
Frank Furter
I am a little puzzled by this report. The criminality of this event only became clear when it was later determined that the driver was a felon in possession of a firearm, which the ranger apparently did not know when he activated a high-risk stop protocol. If this had been someone without a criminal past, he would have been lawfully in possession of a firearm. Will this be the response to any individual displaying a gun in the National Parks? Will every traffic stop where a gun is detected become a multiple officer response situation?

Are you kidding me? Did you read it correctly?

Anytime I pull anyone over, and I work in LA, if I see ANY type of weapon in the open, and especially w/in reach of ANY occupant, that becomes a guns-up, high-risk stop. Period.

ANY weapon? How about an iron frying pan? I do not object to the action of the ranger, however it seems that the increased permissiveness for firearms in the parks will result in either a greater tolerance for them by the rangers or a tremendous consumption of manpower resources. Will everyone jay-walking with a sidearm or a rifle in a rack in the truck cabin be subject to a high-risk stop? My complaint is not with the ranger, but with the increased prevalence of firearms in the park and the probable waste of resources created by the new federal gun regulations.


The cure for a fallacious argument is a better argument, not the suppression of ideas.
-- Carl Sagan
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tanngrisnir3
Re: Rangers Confront And Arrest Armed Driver
May 06, 2011 08:00AM
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Frank Furter
Quote
tanngrisnir3
Quote
Frank Furter
I am a little puzzled by this report. The criminality of this event only became clear when it was later determined that the driver was a felon in possession of a firearm, which the ranger apparently did not know when he activated a high-risk stop protocol. If this had been someone without a criminal past, he would have been lawfully in possession of a firearm. Will this be the response to any individual displaying a gun in the National Parks? Will every traffic stop where a gun is detected become a multiple officer response situation?

Are you kidding me? Did you read it correctly?

Anytime I pull anyone over, and I work in LA, if I see ANY type of weapon in the open, and especially w/in reach of ANY occupant, that becomes a guns-up, high-risk stop. Period.

ANY weapon? How about an iron frying pan? I do not object to the action of the ranger, however it seems that the increased permissiveness for firearms in the parks will result in either a greater tolerance for them by the rangers or a tremendous consumption of manpower resources. Will everyone jay-walking with a sidearm or a rifle in a rack in the truck cabin be subject to a high-risk stop? My complaint is not with the ranger, but with the increased prevalence of firearms in the park and the probable waste of resources created by the new federal gun regulations.

Don't know, as I've never come across that in 11 years, and it would be rather comical to watch a seated driver/passenger try and swing at me with it from inside of a car, so I wouldn't really consider that a weapon unless they were out of the car.

Where I work, if you jaywalk with visible sidearm, you're already going to meet with a certain level of 'service' from any LEO that notices, and I'd call that example relatively extreme.
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avatar Re: Rangers Confront And Arrest Armed Driver
May 06, 2011 08:55AM
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tanngrisnir3

Where I work, if you jaywalk with visible sidearm, you're already going to meet with a certain level of 'service' from any LEO that notices, and I'd call that example relatively extreme.

I do not want to dwell on this issue and I certainly do not disagree with your actions or the ranger's, just pointing out that there are now more guns in the parks and that implies that there will be more difficulities with routine police activities as many situations will presumably require a high-risk response, if rangers are going to be as cautious as possible (as they should be),


The cure for a fallacious argument is a better argument, not the suppression of ideas.
-- Carl Sagan
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avatar Re: Rangers Confront And Arrest Armed Driver
May 06, 2011 10:14AM
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Frank Furter
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tanngrisnir3

Where I work, if you jaywalk with visible sidearm, you're already going to meet with a certain level of 'service' from any LEO that notices, and I'd call that example relatively extreme.

I do not want to dwell on this issue and I certainly do not disagree with your actions or the ranger's, just pointing out that there are now more guns in the parks and that implies that there will be more difficulities with routine police activities as many situations will presumably require a high-risk response, if rangers are going to be as cautious as possible (as they should be),

Any handgun held in plain sight on a driver's lap is clearly a violation of several California laws. That in and of itself would be grounds for police action anywhere in California. It would be at the very least illegal transportation of a handgun, and as I suggested - brandishing a weapon.

I think most LEO jurisdictions are in incorporated cities, where California law states that one can carry a firearm, but it must be unloaded and is subject to inspection on demand by law enforcement. I've seen video of an open-carry advocate who was stopped, told to place his hands against a wall, and his weapon was check by a police officer to make sure it wasn't loaded. He did everything by the book, but I'm not sure why he would willingly go through all that hassle. There are some unincorporated areas where it might not be legal to carry a loaded firearm, although the laws can be vague. Mariposa is unincorporated, but I haven't heard of many people toting loaded guns.

I'm not sure what the rule is in unincorporated areas (like all of Yosemite now) where it is legal to carry a loaded firearm. I'm not sure if the law allows for impromptu "safety inspections".
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bbb
Re: Rangers Confront And Arrest Armed Driver
May 05, 2011 05:31AM
The federal law that allows firearms in national parks has a provision that defers to each state's law on the matter, allowing for tighter local regulations. And in California there are currently some important new rules before the Assembly (not that they'd be relevant in this instance, though)...


Portantino's open-carry gun ban heads to Assembly floor

A bill by state Assemblyman Anthony Portantino, D-Pasadena, to ban the "open carry" of unloaded handguns was overwhelmingly approved today in Assembly Appropriations and now moves on to a hearing by the full Assembly later this spring, officials said.


http://www.pasadenastarnews.com/news/ci_17992183
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avatar Re: Rangers Confront And Arrest Armed Driver
May 06, 2011 10:21AM
Quote
bbb
The federal law that allows firearms in national parks has a provision that defers to each state's law on the matter, allowing for tighter local regulations. And in California there are currently some important new rules before the Assembly (not that they'd be relevant in this instance, though)...


Portantino's open-carry gun ban heads to Assembly floor

A bill by state Assemblyman Anthony Portantino, D-Pasadena, to ban the "open carry" of unloaded handguns was overwhelmingly approved today in Assembly Appropriations and now moves on to a hearing by the full Assembly later this spring, officials said.


http://www.pasadenastarnews.com/news/ci_17992183

Yosemite is unincorporated, so it could get interesting. I still haven't figured out what a "prohibited area" is in an unincorporated area.

The primary issue has been people getting freaked out with people carrying holstered sidearms in cities.
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kingeorge
Re: Rangers Confront And Arrest Armed Driver
May 06, 2011 02:47PM
Well, I am OK with people carrying guns in the wilderness, seems natural. It is the city that scares me.
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avatar Re: Rangers Confront And Arrest Armed Driver
May 07, 2011 07:09AM
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kingeorge
Well, I am OK with people carrying guns in the wilderness, seems natural. It is the city that scares me.

Anyone near a carried gun, even one carried by a law enforcement officer, must maintain a certain wariness and inherent alertness to the actions of that individual. Whether hunting, during recreational use or even in a gun shop, one must view with caution those in possession of firearms. I, personally, consider even the presence of guns in the backcountry (or the national forest, where they are much more common as they have been allowed for years) to be a preventable distraction and annoyance to my visit (unless hunting). In many ways, it is no different from encountering someone with an angry dog on a leash, carrying a rattlesnake, driving an oncoming vehicle or exhibiting some behavior that may suddenly result in injury to someone else.


The cure for a fallacious argument is a better argument, not the suppression of ideas.
-- Carl Sagan
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emc2
Re: Rangers Confront And Arrest Armed Driver
May 09, 2011 12:50AM
Guns in anyone's hands make me feel uneasy, policeman, hunter, or not. Even if I know them, I feel a bit uneasy. I applaud the ranger for his strength and coolness.
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jackolive
Re: Rangers Confront And Arrest Armed Driver
May 09, 2011 09:26AM
Indeed. Dealing with armed crazy people is much scarier than a bear. I applaud.
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