Re: Petroglyphs stolen near Bishop

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bbb
I'd be happy to chip in for a bigger reward for information leading to an arrest. This had to have been more than a one man operation, and it's not unheard for accomplices in this type of thing to have sudden pangs of regret.

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DavidSenesac
I will speculate those cutting out the rock also are copper thieves down in the Los Angeles urban area. And they are low skilled little educated laborers working when they can in construction sometimes sawing pavement and concrete otherwise are into burglaries. That they and their gang visited the Eastern Sierra maybe going up to Mammoth maybe car camping, certainly drinking at all hours, trying to hatch ways they could rip something off. So drove around the Owens Valley looking for unguarded stuff they might do their deeds to. Probably read about the petroglyphs and figured that area was sure to usually be empty for miles during some periods of off season weekends. So drove out there and found the spot and made plans. But what misguided urban simpleton morons they are to think they are going to be able to make any money off such. Much like urban copper thieves that rip out wires from public utility boxes that net them a couple hundred bucks while doing $10,000 worth of infrastructure damage.

If they are caught, they ought to be given hammers then spend a year breaking down boulders into little rocks. Instead the measely penalty is just a year in jail where they will probably enjoy the time learning bad ass mannerisms of hard core convicts. Oh there is a fine too but they probably own little as whatever they make probably goes into drink, drugs, guns, and sleaze.

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DavidSenesac
That is incorrect. I assumed NO facts other than the criminal act occurred. That is why trying to get into the mind of why some group might do something like that, I prefaced my post with:

I will speculate

Thus it is pure speculation as one possibility. Such is what law enforcement does every day trying to figure out why criminal acts occur.

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tanngrisnir3

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DavidSenesac
That is incorrect. I assumed NO facts other than the criminal act occurred. That is why trying to get into the mind of why some group might do something like that, I prefaced my post with:

I will speculate

Thus it is pure speculation as one possibility. Such is what law enforcement does every day trying to figure out why criminal acts occur.

A. Facepalm
B. "Speculate" and "assume" are synonyms, so yes, you assumed facts not in evidence. No currently available data whatosever supports your statements.
C. You might just as well have said it was committed by giant space weasels directed by mind control waves from a Paraguay Freemason cell. There is an equal amount of evidence supporting that 'speculation' as well.
D. I'm quite intimately familiar with law enforcement investigations. They are based on available facts and evidence, not wild speculation.

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DavidSenesac

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tanngrisnir3

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DavidSenesac
That is incorrect. I assumed NO facts other than the criminal act occurred. That is why trying to get into the mind of why some group might do something like that, I prefaced my post with:

I will speculate

Thus it is pure speculation as one possibility. Such is what law enforcement does every day trying to figure out why criminal acts occur.

A. Facepalm
B. "Speculate" and "assume" are synonyms, so yes, you assumed facts not in evidence. No currently available data whatosever supports your statements.
C. You might just as well have said it was committed by giant space weasels directed by mind control waves from a Paraguay Freemason cell. There is an equal amount of evidence supporting that 'speculation' as well.
D. I'm quite intimately familiar with law enforcement investigations. They are based on available facts and evidence, not wild speculation.

Quite an incorrect connection between two terms most people including dictionaries would not make?

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/speculate

Definition of SPECULATE

intransitive verb
1.a: to meditate on or ponder a subject : reflect
b: to review something idly or casually and often inconclusively transitive verb
1: to take to be true on the basis of insufficient evidence : theorize
2: to be curious or doubtful about : wonder <speculates whether it will rain all vacation>

Definition of ASSUME

5: to take as granted or true : suppose <I assume he'll be there>

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Just to be clear since you seem to be confused. I as a quite public person using my real name and not some pseudonym, on many sites including this board since the earliest days of the Internet, make considerable use of that relative term on the web and have been doing so for years, which you can readily search on, particularly on serious debate sites. It is meant to be interpreted just as the above definition reads.

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In other words in this case there are many possibilities as to the nature of a group that might have purpetrated the crime. My input is one possibility built on the simple incomplete evidence known currently. It is NOT something I believe to be true or expect any else to, but rather a reflective starting point of what may be the case and I think a rather good one. If there is something specific you want to comment on with my speculation please do as I am curious as to what it is you obviously have issue with? Or are you suggesting the notion of any speculation posted on a community board of enthusiasts where people are wondering why, is an ethical issue until all facts are known? If so that would also be misplaced as a confusion between stating something as true versus wondering what possibility out of several may be.

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Much like when an irrational urban climber burned downed the White Mountain Bristlecon Pine Visitor Center, members on a number of boards you can easily search on, SPECULATED, on possible scenarios and people that might have had reason to do so. Eventually it was found the same person had been vandalizing and burglarizing vehicles at trailheads.

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tanngrisnir3

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DavidSenesac

C. You might just as well have said it was committed by giant space weasels directed by mind control waves from a Paraguay Freemason cell. There is an equal amount of evidence supporting that 'speculation' as well.

As a giant space weasel... I am deeply offended

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DavidSenesac
I will speculate those cutting out the rock also are copper thieves down in the Los Angeles urban area. And they are low skilled little educated laborers working when they can in construction sometimes sawing pavement and concrete otherwise are into burglaries. That they and their gang visited the Eastern Sierra maybe going up to Mammoth maybe car camping, certainly drinking at all hours, trying to hatch ways they could rip something off. So drove around the Owens Valley looking for unguarded stuff they might do their deeds to. Probably read about the petroglyphs and figured that area was sure to usually be empty for miles during some periods of off season weekends. So drove out there and found the spot and made plans. But what misguided urban simpleton morons they are to think they are going to be able to make any money off such. Much like urban copper thieves that rip out wires from public utility boxes that net them a couple hundred bucks while doing $10,000 worth of infrastructure damage.

.

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ryanmj

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DavidSenesac

I will speculate those cutting out the rock also are copper thieves down in the Los Angeles urban area. And they are low skilled little educated laborers working when they can in construction sometimes sawing pavement and concrete otherwise are into burglaries. That they and their gang visited the Eastern Sierra maybe going up to Mammoth maybe car camping, certainly drinking at all hours, trying to hatch ways they could rip something off. So drove around the Owens Valley looking for unguarded stuff they might do their deeds to. Probably read about the petroglyphs and figured that area was sure to usually be empty for miles during some periods of off season weekends. So drove out there and found the spot and made plans. But what misguided urban simpleton morons they are to think they are going to be able to make any money off such. Much like urban copper thieves that rip out wires from public utility boxes that net them a couple hundred bucks while doing $10,000 worth of infrastructure damage.

.

exactly what I was thinking. Well that or Aliens. Possibly both but definitely one of those 3.

( On the other hand, maybe it was just a rival Indian tribe who just wanted to desecrate the Paiute's sacred area. The Miwoks, possibly? )

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plawrence

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ryanmj

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DavidSenesac

I will speculate those cutting out the rock also are copper thieves down in the Los Angeles urban area. And they are low skilled little educated laborers working when they can in construction sometimes sawing pavement and concrete otherwise are into burglaries. That they and their gang visited the Eastern Sierra maybe going up to Mammoth maybe car camping, certainly drinking at all hours, trying to hatch ways they could rip something off. So drove around the Owens Valley looking for unguarded stuff they might do their deeds to. Probably read about the petroglyphs and figured that area was sure to usually be empty for miles during some periods of off season weekends. So drove out there and found the spot and made plans. But what misguided urban simpleton morons they are to think they are going to be able to make any money off such. Much like urban copper thieves that rip out wires from public utility boxes that net them a couple hundred bucks while doing $10,000 worth of infrastructure damage.

.

exactly what I was thinking. Well that or Aliens. Possibly both but definitely one of those 3.

The problem with David's theory is that it presumes too much intelligence and planning on part of the L.A. gangs. They're not familiar with the petroglyphs and I truly doubt they would ever take the time to become so.

Those who took part in this act of vandalism are people who are probably very familiar with the Petroglyphs. Possibly some antiquity relics collector hired someone to get them for their own personal collection.

( On the other hand, maybe it was just a rival Indian tribe who just wanted to desecrate the Paiute's sacred area. The Miwoks, possibly? )

Hopefully they get caught and the indians give them a fair trial on the reservation
.

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plawrence
The problem with David's theory is that it presumes too much intelligence and planning on part of the L.A. gangs. They're not familiar with the petroglyphs and I truly doubt they would ever take the time to become so.

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Those who took part in this act of vandalism are people who are probably very familiar with the Petroglyphs. Possibly some antiquity relics collector hired someone to get them for their own personal collection.

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Dave

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plawrence

The problem with David's theory is that it presumes too much intelligence and planning on part of the L.A. gangs. They're not familiar with the petroglyphs and I truly doubt they would ever take the time to become so.

The problem with that is that you assume he was talking about LA street gangs. Obviously he was using 'gang' in the generic "band of theives."

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DavidSenesac

I will speculate those cutting out the rock also are copper thieves down in the Los Angeles urban area. And they are low skilled little educated laborers working when they can in construction sometimes sawing pavement and concrete otherwise are into burglaries. That they and their gang visited the Eastern Sierra maybe going up to Mammoth maybe car camping, certainly drinking at all hours, trying to hatch ways they could rip something off.

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Dave

Those who took part in this act of vandalism are people who are probably very familiar with the Petroglyphs. Possibly some antiquity relics collector hired someone to get them for their own personal collection.

It wasn't vandalism but an act of theft. Most likely they did have a buyer lined up or were paid by a private collector.

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plawrence

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Dave

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plawrence

The problem with David's theory is that it presumes too much intelligence and planning on part of the L.A. gangs. They're not familiar with the petroglyphs and I truly doubt they would ever take the time to become so.

The problem with that is that you assume he was talking about LA street gangs. Obviously he was using 'gang' in the generic "band of theives."

Possibly, by my point was they were from the L.A. area and unfamiliar with the petroglyphs. Here's his original quote (underlines added by me):

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DavidSenesac

I will speculate those cutting out the rock also are copper thieves down in the Los Angeles urban area. And they are low skilled little educated laborers working when they can in construction sometimes sawing pavement and concrete otherwise are into burglaries. That they and their gang visited the Eastern Sierra maybe going up to Mammoth maybe car camping, certainly drinking at all hours, trying to hatch ways they could rip something off.

So I'm think he was speculating that it was some sort of criminal gang from the Los Angeles area. Neither him or I were necessarily assuming "street gangs" per se but instead any sort of criminal gang from the Los Angeles metro area.

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Dave

Those who took part in this act of vandalism are people who are probably very familiar with the Petroglyphs. Possibly some antiquity relics collector hired someone to get them for their own personal collection.

It wasn't vandalism but an act of theft. Most likely they did have a buyer lined up or were paid by a private collector.

It was both, a theft and an act of vandalism.

And I agree that they probably had a buyer already lined up, or quite possibly, it was the private collector who instigated this and lined up a crew to commit the theft, very probably some locals who live in the area and already knew exactly where the petroglyphs were located.

.

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Half Dome Hiker
Does anyone have connections to the BLM office?! I would like to donate some money too to increase the reward.

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DavidSenesac
tan3 >>>"Ah, perhaps you've never heard of the word 'synonym'. That could be where your cognitive dissonance is coming from..."

Your obviously emotional reaction betrays meaningful input. From other posts you have made, I expected you would start personal attacks. As has been my ethic and style for years which one can Google on extensively on the web, I don't continue to respond to persons on Internet boards who cannot respond and discuss issues calmly or with considered logic.

I've made my points in simple English I'm confident any other members reading my post here will so understand.

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Ohnivy-Drak

Can they actually sell them? Since they can't, what's the point of hoarding them in their basements? Or just vandals being vandals for the heck of it?

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Half Dome Hiker
@DavidSenesac/tanngrisnir3:

Happy Thanksgiving!

I kindly suggest you quit fighting over this.

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BLM
Thank you for your concern regarding theft and defacement of the petroglyph panels north of Bishop. We have had an overwhelming response to this crime. Here is a link to information on how you can donate to the reward fund.

http://www.blm.gov/ca/st/en/info/newsroom/2012/november/donation_fund_for.html

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marmot
well for anyone interested, i emailed the BLM about the possibility of being able to donate. i received this email and have a link to where i am able to donate

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BLM
Thank you for your concern regarding theft and defacement of the petroglyph panels north of Bishop. We have had an overwhelming response to this crime. Here is a link to information on how you can donate to the reward fund.

http://www.blm.gov/ca/st/en/info/newsroom/2012/november/donation_fund_for.html

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plawrence
Any word around Bishop about who people suspect stole the petroglyphs?

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hikerchick395
Here is one of the stolen petroglyphs. I went out Wednesday to see the damage with my own eyes. Pretty sad.