Just thought I'd say that

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Quote
chick-on
Just thought I'd say that

I haven't seen anything in the Daily Report about it. Any idea why it's closed?

Quote
eeek

Quote
chick-on
Just thought I'd say that

I haven't seen anything in the Daily Report about it. Any idea why it's closed?

Bad road conditions, in the form of ice, is the explanation that was given by the Evergreen Lodge staff (we were surprised by the closure and asked them...).

Quote
eeek

Quote
chick-on
Just thought I'd say that

I haven't seen anything in the Daily Report about it. Any idea why it's closed?

Fluffy white stuff
followed by fully white stuff turning into sheet o ice

Of course it is normally open. But it hasn't been for some time now.
(it was closed xmas time... and was still closed last weekend... and still is now)

Hopefully it clears up soon

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That must have ruined your Christmas plans...


Oh and by the way, go Niners this weekend!

Hey all – new member here. I am employed by Hetch Hetchy. The reason for the road closure is because of a slide in the area past Rest Hill. At least one-half of the paved roadway is gone (slid). Not safe for public transit.

Regards (long time lurker…like the site),

Flip

Thanks for the update. It's good to have the real reason.

Flip,
I asked at 140 entrance station and they only mentioned snow and ice. Of course this makes more sense.
Any idea what timeframe is to get it fixed?
Is Rest Hill the spot where Poopenaut Valley lookout is? Where the picnic table is located?

Also, any chance some schmo like me can get a tour of Mountain Tunnel? (i.e. take a peek at what I presume is the big old pipe inside)
(prob. the same as the one around Early Intake and Cherry Tunnel)

Thanks for the info

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Quote
chick-on
Also, any chance some schmo like me can get a tour of Mountain Tunnel? (i.e. take a peek at what I presume is the big old pipe inside)

I didn't think there are pipes in the tunnels; rather, the the tunnels are lined/sealed as needed so water can flow directly through them. The only exception I'm aware of--I believe there are pipes running through the tunnel dug under/around the south side of the damsite to divert the river from the dam site during construction.

I think HHWP did some tunnel inspections a few years ago--that would have been the best opportunity to go inside one of the aqueduct tunnels, although I'm sure access was restricted :-(

You know the reason I was thinking there was a pipe in there was because...
well... the pipe goes into the mountain ... but after you and HetchyConnetchy
state it's just blasted granite... it makes perfect sense.

Here's the pipe going into the mountain at Cherry Power Tunnel.



For someone who has never seen these ... the pipe is about 5 ft. diameter.

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Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/08/2013 08:58PM by chick-on.

Quote
chick-on
Here's the pipe going into the mountain at Cherry Power Tunnel.

Is there anyplace in Yosemite you haven't been to?!?!?

Well... that's not really Yosemite.

So... here's the side tunnel near HH Dam that connects to The Canyon Power Tunnel:


A crude map of the system can be found on an interpretive sign on the dam itself:


Mountain Tunnel isn't marked on that map but goes from Kirkwood to Priest Reservoir. I tried spying the reservoir itself...
but signs around it say strictly no trespassing...

In direct response... of course not. But I'm trying. Did complete goal of touching all the named lakes last year tho...
but that just now leads me to have to go back to iirc 3 that I haven't visited for a LONG time and don't have photos of.
(I'm working on a photo set of all the lakes... gonna take me awhile though)
And then there's the WL lakes have yet to visit... and a number of peaks... and a number of canyon traverses... and...
then you do it all over again... and again...

Have fun

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Quote
chick-on
and...
then you do it all over again... and again...

Hey, we all know that the hikes look different depending on

1. what direction you're going
2. who you're with
3. what time of day it is
4. what time of year it is
5. how many Twinkies are left in your bear can (well, that one doesn't affect ME very much but I've heard it's a big deal for some folks!)

Guess I know what I'm doing for the rest of my life!

Hey Click-on, I think our terminology is off: Rest Hill is not the picnic table near Poopenaut…much further down the road.

The slide, which caused about one-half of a lane to go down the hill, occurred about a mile from the Hetchy compound (about 200 yards from the backpacking camp if you were leaving). It occurred in a very steep and tight gorge, and there is a culvert there as well. Hopefully that clears things up.

What baffles us is this road from Mather to the reservoir is the old Hetch Hetchy railroad grade, and has lasted a very long time. What made this situation so special and cause such damage? Mather road from Mather to Cherry Oil road is also the old railroad grade (the guard rails are made from the old railroad tracks). There is an old trolley station about a mile from Cherry Oil that is still intact minus the cables.

Flip



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/24/2013 11:26AM by HetchyConnection.

Hmm... As you head away from the damn the first spot you hit on the right that you can pull over
there is a picnic table and H3 sign.. with this view:


That is what I was thinking was Rest Hill.

There's another picnic table near Poopenaut BM (where they put in the cell tower(?) last year). I think that is H4.

Regardless, no matter so much. Road is closed for us folks. Thanks

(and would LOVE to see some photos)

EDIT: Was assuming Rest Hill was Here and the road got wiped out Here

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Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/09/2013 02:49PM by chick-on.

Yea, you got it...was thinking you thought the slide was at the Poopenaut TH area.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 02/22/2013 03:52PM by HetchyConnection.

Thanks for the photos. Your comments w/r to the "tites" immediately makes me think of Eleanor.
Now that is a dam that I would think is not long for this world. Looks can be deceiving though
and it probably is in just fine shape. Some patchwork was done years ago... and that is what it
looks like (top of dam). Here's the view of one piece of Eleanor I was thinking of w/r to the tites:


As you can imagine I have a bunch of questions. I'm really interested in how exactly it is plumbed inside the dam.
Your pictures give a good glimpse of it. I've never seen a schematic of the inside. One has to exist..

Kudos on the UV system. Could smell the chlorine when turning the faucet on b4. blah!

One big question I have is... have you or any of your fellow workers ever seen a photo of
a view of the actual cables which were run from Kolana to HH Dome during WWII?
Is there a treasure trove of pictures thru the history of the dam somewhere in a vault or
room around "hh headquarters"? Any idea?

Thanks for taking the time

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Hey Click-on - The dam faucet is treated with CL2, and lots of it.

Yea, Eleanor does look quite ragged. It is what it is. Eleanor was drained last year the two weeks surrounding Thanksgiving for repairs. Well, drained isn't the correct word because there was a natural lake Eleanor before the dam was ever constructed. The natural lake was formed by glacial moraines. Building a dam only made lake Eleanor much bigger. Grinding rocks and signs of the old Kibbie settlement were revealed during the draining/drawdown period. Much of Eleanor is quite shallow especially the Frog Creek side which the following shots will illustrate:







This is the entrance to the tunnel between Eleanor & Cherry:




Getting closer to the natural lake:


Natural lake Eleanor:


There is indeed treasure troves of historical pictures. Although Moccasin Admin has a stash, most are scattered throughout the project. Cabin #1 pictured below has some of the best historic pictures hanging on its walls as well as cabin #2 and the bunkhouse. Others in in powerhouse lobbies and offices of Hetchy staff.

Cabin #1


Looks like I suck at pictures...blurry and all cut off.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 02/22/2013 03:55PM by HetchyConnection.

These are very interesting shots, HC...blurry or not. Keep 'em coming! (and thanks for taking the time to post them!)

Hmm... maybe I'll have to go a knocking...

Very familiar with Eleanor. Visited it twice when it was drained last year.
both in December (took full advantage of the no snow)
Some of the same photos can be found here:
http://yosemitenews.info/forum/read.php?3,49907,49907#msg-49907

or just look here:
https://picasaweb.google.com/103089501068510688008/Inferno
and here:
https://picasaweb.google.com/103089501068510688008/KibbieXmas

Over Xmas the wife was with me... and while I went and explored the dam and pipe to Cherry
she went the other way... said she was going to hike around the lake... I told her to not try
that since she would need the entire day and we only had a few hours... and that it's gets
nice and cliffy closer to Eleanor Creek entrance... does she listen to me? of course not
She took a good tumble and scrapped her booty big time... made it back after dark after
I started packing a sleeping bag and other warm clothes in a backpack to go find her.
(she didn't even make it to the entry to Eleanor Creek).

Thanks for sharing ur photos.

Know anything about the anti-aircraft cables?

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Yea, seems you visited while it was drawn down (not suprised considering your rambunctious wild heart). Your shot of the Cherry tunnel is from the opposite direction of my shots. We were in the lake bed itself.



It would be an all day affair to walk around Eleanor for sure. In fact, I wouldn't even want to try getting from the inlet to Kibbie Creek. That is a very steep area.

Here is something us anglers find interesting: Lake Eleanor is sporting two new signs. One located in the Eleanor campground and the other in the display case thingy once you cross the Eleanor dam.



What makes this interesting is "single barbless" regulations never exist without other lesser regs also being in place--such as "zero limit" and "artificial" (artificial meaning no bait allowed). You can both use bait (not live bait as the sign states) and you can keep fish at Eleanor. Because this lake is within park boundaries, special rules and regs do not appear in the Department of Fish & Wildlife literature. Game wardens (called Wildlife Officers now) cannot enforce NP rules/regs. They cannot even pursue a poacher from NF land onto NP land. NP fishing regs are only enforced by NP rangers. The only thing I can find in any Yosemite literature regarding fishing rules/regs basically refers to DFW rule books. Huh???

You probably know as much about the cables as I do. You really seem to know about and get around Yosemite like no other.

Flip



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/24/2013 11:28AM by HetchyConnection.

I saw the grinding rocks near the campground shoreline when the lake was low during the drought period of the eighties. Also saw the debris hanging on the top of the handrail on the downstream side of the dam after the January 1997 downpour. The volume of water flowing out of the lake then had to be something to behold. Chick-on has pictures of the debris I believe.

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Old Dude

Although we've been to Eleanor a zillion times.... didn't take photos back then.
Have debris pix... but those are from 2005. And from last year. They don't clear the debris.
Probably joe camper takes it and burns it though.

w/r to fishing... I quit fishing years ago... although have fished many a lake in Yosemite.
w/r to Eleanor ... Was in trusty trailboat when lake was full
fishing right at Eleanor inlet... and zippy a dee doo da... here's comes Mr. Ranger in his
speed boat checking that I had a fishing license.... certain he thought I was nuts for
fishing in my goofy trail boat but, hey, it was fun. and he is probably right

As far as lake level... I was fairly certain that the lake was drained to pre-dam level-ish
every year to avoid water load on the dam. Much like Lake Florence. No?

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Quote
chick-on
As far as lake level... I was fairly certain that the lake was drained to pre-dam level-ish
every year to avoid water load on the dam. Much like Lake Florence. No?

I suspect that the water in Eleanor is drained (or pumped, depending on relative water levels) into Cherry mostly to maximize power generation at Holm. This is similar to Waugh Lake, which is drained into Gem Lake each year.

Basilbop is correct. Draining Eleanor like last winter is done only when major repairs are necessary.

OK. Thx. From "Laurel Ridge" have seen the lakebed and z old dood has hiked on the lakebed
on another occasion... so thus my assumption.

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Historical note: the Lake Eleanor dam was the first major facility constructed for the HH system. It was used to run a small powerplant located near the site of Early Intake. The penstock for this plant is still visible, just past the Tuolumne bridge (heading towards Cherry Lake). The water was diverted from Cherry Creek above the current bridge into the Lower Cherry Aqueduct, which the Cherry road follows (on the right) for about a mile between the two bridges. This smallish aqueduct, I believe, is no longer used.

Another historical note: the early plans for Lake Eleanor envisoned a reservoir 10x the size of the current one (in terms of volume), possibly conceived as a result of the (pre-Raker) Garfield Permit, which would have required SF to develop Cherry and Eleanor first. Only later, as water demand required, could HH be developed, which--assuming the Mokelumne project, Don Pedro, and the SWP were still later developed--may never have happened...

Thanks. There is so much history to the hh project (and all over the park).
The more I read... the more I determine I know nothing.
My understanding is that the mountain tunnel to Priest from Early Intake
was built when the 'first' hh dam was comleted. Only later when the dam
was raised was the canyon power tunnel put in.
Need to read a lot more about this to get the facts correct. Thanks

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Picked up the book "SF Water and Power - A History of the Municipal Water Department and HH System".
A few items of perhaps interest:
- Originally water to SF went down the river to Early Intake - now (if I'm reading it right) it all flows thru Canyon Power Tunnel
- Canyon Power Tunnel wasn't completed until 1965
- Cherry and Eleanor Tunnels were completed in 1960
- Water from Cherry and Eleanor doesn't feed SF...

It's a nice book. Even the wife was reading it.

I presume that Moccasin Dam will be dry since HH system is suppose to be taken offline tmr.
We'll see...

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Unlike most shutdown years, Moccasin Lake will not be dry. So, no dry lake bed this year.

Sounds like your book is pretty accurate.

BTW - It will be a very long time before HH will be open again.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/22/2013 03:59PM by HetchyConnection.

Quote
HetchyConnection

BTW - It will be a very long time before HH will be open again.

Are you talking about the road, or the water system?
.

Thanks. It's my understanding that HH water is open also at Priest Reservoir. No?
Got any pictures of Priest Reservoir? Have been wanting to see that. (bummed about the No Trespassing signs)
Also thanks for the update on HH road. Again, any pictures? Had half a mind to
hike down to check it out couple of weekends ago while visiting Smith Peak area.
Didn't do that b/c I wanted to stay in the backcountry and not get into any trouble for any reason.
Quite the bummer about HH road. There are other ways into the backcountry though.
Thanks for the post

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The water system is shutdown only long enough for repairs. The road is what I meant by "a very long time". My guess (only a personal guess) is that the road will not open to the public until mid-summer....like July-ish. Depending on the length of construction, I wouldn't be surprised if it were closed beyond July. I'll get some pics up of the slide and damage, but now I'm getting ready to head out for a couple of nights myselff...maybe Preston or Eleanor or...

Click-on - Priest Reservoir is a bypass. The reason for no access is because this water can re-enter the system.

Take care,

Flip



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/22/2013 04:00PM by HetchyConnection.

Thanks. Did you go?

If so... any hacking of the Poison Oak to Preston? Only been there once and it was a PO dodge fest.
Another question. During late fall and winter do they really do any variable outflow between the dam
and Early Intake? Did part of Poopenaut Gorge couple Dec of 2011... and need to get back
there and finish do the rest. Gorgeous slot canyon right there.
Obviously don't want to be IN the river when additonal spiggots get turned on. Comments?

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I ended up taking my boat up into the Cherry inlet and camping. Only spent one night.

Have been up Preston way a ton though. Like any canyon, poison oak galore. Good trail though up to the falls.

I recall reading a report you submitted from the area between Poopenaut and Preston. It had a couple of pics of you and a stuffed bird floating on one of those two-buck-chuck inflatable rafts. Yea? An anglers dream up in there because nobody ever goes. Nice slot canyon as you said, deep cavernous water, where the big fish lurk. Put a deer-hair mouse on the end of a fly line and bounce it off a granite wall…

You have nothing to worry about in the fall and winter months regarding flux….go for it, I do! Neat area….my stomping grounds in the winter. Merely maintain “fish flows” in fall and winter seasons – wild & scenic rivers must have appropriate fish flows. However there are times when drastic flux occurs. Spring for obvious runoff reasons and summer because of rafting flows. After the snowmelt is gone, in addition to the fish flows, we have to keep the rafting community happy by providing a daily 3-hour wave downstream. Generally speaking, the daily rafting waves are the purpose for all the signage. If you are in the river when the rafting flow begins it will get your attention.

I thought rafting releases were done only from Cherry... it sounds like they are done from HH as well...?

Rafting flow releases are indeed performed primarily from Cherry. The reason for the rafting flows are so that those guys don't have to get out and drag rafts over exposed gravel bars, etc. when the river flow decreases.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/24/2013 11:31AM by HetchyConnection.

Thanks Flip. I was under same impression as basil.
Thought maybe the answer would be.. "those signs aren't applicable anymore".
No way, no how, would I want to be a stepping in that river in spring.
Scary even up close.

Cool on the boating. Seems that is a pretty popular thing. Had crazy idea
of trail-boating all the way either to or fro to do CCC.
Then saw the insanity below one Memorial Day and said hmm...
also the inlet always seems to hold logs... which is not so good for a
trailboat..
Seems that the camping there must have become very popular b/c
I recall the powers that be had a map somewhere that says you
have to be so far away from high water line.
Anyway, thanks for all the info

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Do you expect the road to be open for bicycle traffic by May?

Quote
twarfield
Do you expect the road to be open for bicycle traffic by May?

If they are actively doing repairs at that time, I wouldn't expect the road to be open for bikes.

Quote
chick-on

Did complete goal of touching all the named lakes last year tho...
but that just now leads me to have to go back to iirc 3 that I haven't visited for a LONG time and don't have photos of.

You were at a lake that you didn't take photos of? Or had photos but they have been misplaced or lost?

Any other person, I could believe in them not taking a photo of all the lakes they have visited, but you? I thought you were the most snap-happy shutterbug on the entire planet.

Anyway, I would love to see your complete album of all the Yosemite lakes that you have visited if you ever have time to complete that project. Probably a very huge undertaking.

.

Didn't used to take a camera. I should have a regular photo of Neall... but I didn't see it.
The other 2, Swamp and Minnow... only been to once and that was over 10 years ago.
Good reason to go back.

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The slide is ~a mile from the Hetchy compound. Currently there is only Hetchy, the park service and USGS going through.

Fishing for brown trout has been very good at Hetchy recently.

Again, neat site…I have wanted to join for a while now. Thanks.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/22/2013 04:03PM by HetchyConnection.

It'd be nice if the upcoming Wapama feed were also posted on a public website.

Yeah, homeland security monitoring is OK too, I guess...

Welcome!

Thank you. Ok, yeah, Rest Hill must be "H3 - Poopenaut Valley View" where the picnic table is.

Thanks for the info on Mountain Tunnel. Sorry, I called it wrong.. It's called Canyon Power Tunnel.
Mountain Tunnel is from Early Intake to Priest. oops.
Stood outside the gate below the dam looking in and wondered. Looks like you guys drive pickups in there.
When they shut down Cherry do you guys enter Cherry Power Tunnel via the pipe itself?
I seem to recall a hatch on the pipe where it enters the mountain above Holm.
Any guided tour would include a tour of the dam too, no?

IMO the system below the dam is more of a feat of engineering than the dam itself.

Last time stopped and looked at the fish at Moccasin wondered where the REALLY big guys went. Mystery solved.

Thanks so much for the info

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I presume at the time they shut off the pipe to the tunnel... they let the reservoir
fill up by not opening more of the pipes which feed the Tuolumne below the dam.
SF is required to keep the flow of Tuolumne above a specified cfs all year.
Curious if they do some calculation/speculation depending on current flow
into and also current snowpack in order to figure out how much to dump...
or if that is only done in the spring?

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Great info here. Thanks to everyone who contributed to our education.

With Eleanor drained like that, I bet one could have seen a lot of huge trout swimming down in what remained.

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http://www.davidsenesac.com

Quote
DavidSenesac
With Eleanor drained like that, I bet one could have seen a lot of huge trout swimming down in what remained.

I would take that bet. Didn't see a single fish both times was there... and I looked...
Best time imo ... is spring when the lake is full... jump in your trailboat and go head to Kibbie Crk inlet...
have seen loads of fish there...

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Quote
chick-on

Quote
DavidSenesac
With Eleanor drained like that, I bet one could have seen a lot of huge trout swimming down in what remained.

I would take that bet. Didn't see a single fish both times was there... and I looked...
Best time imo ... is spring when the lake is full... jump in your trailboat and go head to Kibbie Crk inlet...
have seen loads of fish there...

Yup been thar dun dat.

Glad to hear those little pools in the jpg did not represent the size of the remaining natural lake.

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http://www.davidsenesac.com

Quote
DavidSenesac
With Eleanor drained like that, I bet one could have seen a lot of huge trout swimming down in what remained.

The lake is still pretty big. Over 300 acres compared to about 1000 acres when dammed. Here is a map link:

Lake Eleanor Dam - 1889

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Old Dude



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/08/2013 06:42PM by chick-on.