Re: Wilderness permit / Half Dome

Hi all

I have a quick question about Wilderness Permits.

I managed to bag a permit for the Cathedral Lakes trailhead, exiting via Glacier Point, and requested Half Dome on the form, but on the confirmation email, the number of people listed as climbing Half Dome is zero.

Is this right?

I understand I have to pay the extra $8 for Half Dome when I pick up my Permit, but is this possible if my permit says zero people to climb Half Dome? Or is it a case of booking Half Dome when you pick up the permit?

Thanks.

Steve

I think you'll find all the info you need right here.

http://www.nps.gov/yose/planyourvisit/hdwildpermits.htm

Looks like you'll need to call and make sure there's none available (for BPer's) for your time frame and if not...I think the walk-up process may be your best bet. You must not have requested them on your original application, or there were none available at the time..

Get to the permit station early to pick up your permit, and you'll have a decent shot at getting the HD permit.

"beginning at 11 am one day prior to your backpacking trip's start date."

I hope this is helpful.

---

"It is all very beautiful and magical here - a quality which cannot be described. You have to live it and breath it., let the sun bake it into you" - Ansel Adams

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Jayabrams

Looks like you'll need to call and make sure there's none available (for BPer's) for your time frame and if not...I think the walk-up process may be your best bet. You must not have requested them on your original application, or there were none available at the time..

Thanks guys.

I certainly requested the HD permit, and ticked the box on the form saying not to proceed if there were none availible, so it must be a mistake.

I am trying to call them at the moment, as I would rather not leave it to chance.

Steve

They make mistakes. Just yesterday I received a wilderness permit for 2, when I clearly stated on the form that the minimum number for the trip was 4. I called and the gal at the desk acknowledged the mistake, but ooops, too late to fix it. All the permits for that day for that trailhead were taken.

So I am waiting to hear today to see if I can get my second choice day.

Yup, they messed up, but all permits are now gone, so I am left with the lottery, or a walk up permit the day before.

I don't much fancy my chances of getting a walk-up permit the day before, as I don't expect to arrive in Tuolumne Meadows from Mono Pass until late in the afternoon.

Lottery it is then! lol

What are my chances?!

Steve

And to answer my own question, my chances look to be about 30-40%, going by the publised figures.

At least I am not climbing on a weekend!

Steve

If you have a wilderness permit that puts you in that area (Catherdral to GP via Clouds Rest?) then you should be OK for HD. It doesn't need to specify HD. Or am I missing something?

You're missing something. The permit system is changed, now there's a backpacker quota and a non-backpacker quota, and the FAXed (ugh) reservation form includes a "request half dome permits" section (doesn't appear to require committing to a specific date), and a check as to whether the trip is OK if none are available or if the trip should be scrapped. From comments above it appears they're making mistakes with this part of the request.

Half Dome Permits.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/07/2013 04:44AM by ttilley.

Thanks for the update tilley. I was not aware of the new system. What a hassle. Good luck with plans Steve.

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ttilley
You're missing something. The permit system is changed, now there's a backpacker quota and a non-backpacker quota, and the FAXed (ugh) reservation form includes a "request half dome permits" section (doesn't appear to require committing to a specific date), and a check as to whether the trip is OK if none are available or if the trip should be scrapped. From comments above it appears they're making mistakes with this part of the request.

Half Dome Permits.

I thought the quota when the system was instituted used to be 400 day and 100 backcountry. Still - back then you didn't really need to get a HD permit if you already had a wilderness permit. I understand one simply mentioned it when picking up the wilderness permit, and the numbers were essentially averaged out.

That appears to have been so last year...

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y_p_w
I thought the quota when the system was instituted used to be 400 day and 100 backcountry. Still - back then you didn't really need to get a HD permit if you already had a wilderness permit. I understand one simply mentioned it when picking up the wilderness permit, and the numbers were essentially averaged out.

They changed it. From the nps website at: http://www.nps.gov/yose/planyourvisit/hdwildpermits.htm

"Permits to hike to the top of Half Dome are required seven days per week when the cables are up, even for backpackers with wilderness permits. The process for backpackers obtaining Half Dome permits has changed for 2013 as a result of the implementation of the Half Dome Plan. The quota for Half Dome permits for backpackers is now 75 permits per day (50 available by reservation and 25 available one day in advance on a first-come, first-served basis at wilderness centers). The cost for Half Dome permits is $8 per person, payable at a wilderness center the day of or day before your trip, and is therefore not refundable." [Emphasis Mine]

How did they mess up? Did they forget to put you in the lottery, or did they put you in and you lost and then they made the mistake of processing your wilderness permit anyway? Depending on that I might ask them for some kind of special consideration. If they forgot to put you into the lottery at all, you might think that they would try to accommodate you. In reality what is one over the quota, for special circumstances to address their own error? At least carve one out of the walk-ups for you. It's possible they don't have the authority to make these kinds of changes, which would be a shame.

If you were in the lottery and lost, then it should be a simple matter of asking them to cancel your permit and refund all charges as they should have done, if that's what you want.

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JRinGeorgia
How did they mess up? Did they forget to put you in the lottery, or did they put you in and you lost and then they made the mistake of processing your wilderness permit anyway? Depending on that I might ask them for some kind of special consideration. If they forgot to put you into the lottery at all, you might think that they would try to accommodate you. In reality what is one over the quota, for special circumstances to address their own error? At least carve one out of the walk-ups for you. It's possible they don't have the authority to make these kinds of changes, which would be a shame.

If you were in the lottery and lost, then it should be a simple matter of asking them to cancel your permit and refund all charges as they should have done, if that's what you want.

I think they probably messed up by not adding the HD permit to my Wilderness permit, as I requested. I made sure to tick the box that states not to proceed if HD permits were not avaiable, as I would have tried for another date when they were. I am not sure how the system works, but (and I am only guessing here) I would think that any backpacker that requests one, before the HD lottery, would get one, as, due to the relativley small amount of people accessing HD from the wilderness is low, due to trailhead quotas, so I can't really see how there would have been no permits.

I did phone the Permit office to check if I had HD or not, as I was confussed, but they confirmed that no I didnt, and there were none left by then, and I would have to apply through the regular Lottery. I may phone back, or write a letter, attaching my fax as supporting evidence, as I really would be unhappy if I didn't get a permit in the lottery.

However, I have applied for three different days, and with slight changes to my plans, can make either of those work, so hopefully I should be lucky.

I assume it would be very difficult to score a HD permit when I pick up my Wilderness permit in TM?

Steve

Steve

That's what I'm suggesting, plead your case. "Hey, I shouldn't have to go to the back of the line because you guys messed up. Can you make this right?" Squeaky wheel gets the grease.

I thought the squeeky wheel got changed?
Some more HD questions... Do you have to have a specific trail head on your wilderness permit to request the HD permit? Is there a specific wilderness center you have visit to get the HD permit?

I found the answer to one of my questions on the nps site, "reasonably part of your itinerary". Doesnt that only leave Happy Isles and Glacier Point as trailheads that would be reasonable? Unless you started on Tioga Road? Which of course leads me to more questions...Would hiking from Tioga Road to Clouds Rest, Round trip to Half Dome, then out be verging on ridiculous for a family of five?

Suppose you start at Tuolumne Meadows and go to Cathedral Lakes, then continue to Sunrise, Clouds Rest,...Half Dome...Little Yosemite, then up to Merced Lake, and back to Tuolumne Meadows. And there's enough nights planned for that to make sense.

A one night trip from Hetch Hetchy towards Lake Vernon, on the other hand...

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Patsfans
I found the answer to one of my questions on the nps site, "reasonably part of your itinerary". Doesnt that only leave Happy Isles and Glacier Point as trailheads that would be reasonable? Unless you started on Tioga Road? Which of course leads me to more questions...Would hiking from Tioga Road to Clouds Rest, Round trip to Half Dome, then out be verging on ridiculous for a family of five?

My one and only experience doing Half Dome was before HD-specific permits. However, I started at Tioga Road at the west end of Tenaya Lake (Sunrise Trailhead) and camped about 2.5 miles from the summit of HD. It was certainly reasonable to make it during the trip. I got to Clouds Rest the next day, although I probably could have done it the same day. My final night was at Little Yosemite Valley and I exited at Happy Isles. That is very doable and something that won't be an issue.

As for what one can do, my first day I met up with a family of three camping in the same area. I'd started at Tenaya Lake, but they started that morning from Tuolumne Meadows. I had their company on the way to HD. They were desperate for someone to take pictures since their proprietary camera battery died, and it didn't take AAs (and I happened to have spares).

Thanks to all you guys for the info in this thread. I was able to use those links when asked about half dome today.

Don't want to encourage this, but you could just go up in the early evening or morning, after or before the rangers get there. Haven't gone up since the whole permit system began, but if I was in the area and really really really badly wanted to go up, that'd be the sneaky--but wrong--way I'd do it.

The thought had crossed my mind to be honest, however the penalties do seem enough to put me off! lol

I do have the option of hitting it very early or late in the day, but wanted to keep it legal, just in case.

Steve

Boo!

Failure in the lottery. What a shame to be going all that way, then hiking all the way from Bloody Canyon, to Glacier point, right past the foot of Half Dome, but not up it.

Grumpy now! lol

Steve

I got shut out of the lottery also. This was finally the year I felt ready to do it. Bummed.

For those who were shut out in the initial "pre-season" Half Dome lottery, just remember that the Park Service will be holding a "daily lottery" throughout the "season" so there's still hope that you might be able to obtain your Half Dome permits through the daily lottery.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/11/2013 04:36PM by plawrence.