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Tuolumne Meadows and Lembert Dome during a summer storm, Yosemite National Park

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Re: Bear Can Envy

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avatar Bear Can Envy
September 04, 2013 09:40AM
Re: Bear Can Envy
September 04, 2013 12:28PM
Indeed. One day...
Re: Bear Can Envy
September 04, 2013 12:53PM
Yeah but in an interesting twist the guy who's carrying the big can is envious of the guy with the little one.
Re: Bear Can Envy
September 04, 2013 01:00PM
Ah, I see now. I'm envious of either smiling smiley Lugging my BV500 around...
Re: Bear Can Envy
September 04, 2013 01:00PM
Looks like the one on the left is exhibiting some shrinkage... cold water?
avatar Re: Bear Can Envy
September 04, 2013 06:06PM
Quote
basilbop
Looks like the one on the left is exhibiting some shrinkage... cold water?

We need a facebook "like" button on this forum...
Re: Bear Can Envy
September 04, 2013 08:18PM
Quote
Catalonian Burro
Quote
basilbop
Looks like the one on the left is exhibiting some shrinkage... cold water?

We need a facebook "like" button on this forum...


double like!! Maybe if I am good, Santa will bring me one.
avatar Re: Bear Can Envy
September 04, 2013 09:53PM
Quote
atomicmonkey
Quote
Catalonian Burro
Quote
basilbop
Looks like the one on the left is exhibiting some shrinkage... cold water?

We need a facebook "like" button on this forum...


double like!! Maybe if I am good, Santa will bring me one.

Monkey, I meant "like" as in in the comment. Santa does not need to get me one. I feel quite adequate when it comes to my.... bear can. But it's all relative, you know. I better quit now before this discussion goes south.
Re: Bear Can Envy
September 04, 2013 05:02PM
Inyo NF does allow the use of the Ursack (the updated version). Hopefully, some day, the same will be true for Yosemite and Seki. Personally, I use my Ursack any place I can.
avatar Re: Bear Can Envy
September 04, 2013 05:33PM
Quote
LVRAY

Inyo NF does allow the use of the Ursack (the updated version). Hopefully, some day, the same will be true for Yosemite and Seki. Personally, I use my Ursack any place I can.


The Inyo National Forest black bears apparently aren't as clever (or determined) as those that roam Yosemite. wink

.
Re: Bear Can Envy
September 04, 2013 05:45PM
I do find the difference in policy interesting. It exists not only between the NFS and the PS, but also with in NFS as Inyo, to the best of my knowledge, is the only NF in the region to allow the use of the Ursack. Personally, I do not think Yosemite will ever allow the Ursack unless forced to do so by the courts (which obviously isn't happening soon). At least Inyo has some really cool places to go and I can save some weight while there!



Quote
plawrence
Quote
LVRAY

Inyo NF does allow the use of the Ursack (the updated version). Hopefully, some day, the same will be true for Yosemite and Seki. Personally, I use my Ursack any place I can.


The Inyo National Forest black bears apparently aren't as clever (or determined) as those that roam Yosemite. wink

.
Re: Bear Can Envy
September 04, 2013 05:43PM
Quote
LVRAY
Inyo NF does allow the use of the Ursack (the updated version). Hopefully, some day, the same will be true for Yosemite and Seki. Personally, I use my Ursack any place I can.

That'd be nice for sure.
Re: Bear Can Envy
September 04, 2013 05:39PM
Nice juxtaposition of cans. I believe that's the smallest and largest they offer ?
Re: Bear Can Envy
September 04, 2013 09:43PM
The little one is the Scout, the smallest non-custom can.. The big one is a custom 16" can - the largest you can get without a double-wall cylinder. We have been very happy with it. Basilbop's Fritos and other more delicate snacks survive much better on the trips now... Gotta have a few fun snacks! smiling smiley My Cheetos lived in our cups in the Weekender I was carrying... Yumm.

Oops. JustKeepWalking here.. I posted under Basilbop's account.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/04/2013 09:44PM by basilbop.
avatar Re: Bear Can Envy
September 04, 2013 11:44PM
Quote
The Other Tom
Nice juxtaposition of cans. I believe that's the smallest and largest they offer ?

Custom up to 18". The price maxes out at $475 for 18". The price scales with the size of course, but their standard sizes cost as much as they would if they were custom sized.

I remember handling one at Roads End at Kings Canyon. I was just talking to a very bored guy at the permit station. When I was talking about bear canisters, he just whipped out the Weekender they had for rent as well as a BearVault BV350 they just got in.

At this point I don't mind the Bear Vaults, especially since I've got two. And since Yellow-Yellow was shot in the Adirondacks, there's no bears known to have gotten into the latest models of the BearVault.
Re: Bear Can Envy
September 04, 2013 07:59PM
I ordered a bearicade almost a month ago and it still hasn't arrived. Some sort of production problem, shortage of the hardware that closes the device.

Seems my twenty year old double sized Garcia (seen in this photo) is no longer legal in Yosemite.


Makes no sense to me, the old one is super durable. Makes you wonder who makes these rules.
I guess I'm being forced to carry a lighter canister, but only if it arrives before my mid month Whitney trip............
avatar Re: Bear Can Envy
September 04, 2013 08:27PM
I remember Garcia selling that old expedition model back in the mid-late 1990s...it's possible they never even put it in for approval, they stopped making it. Once Yosemite had an "official list" (sometime in the last half of the 2000s?) it always specified the model "612C".

Edit: at one time a few years ago there was a Sierra Inter-Agency Bear Management Group, or somesuch. Seems like that disbanded, and each unit is back to making it's own rules.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/04/2013 08:28PM by ttilley.
Re: Bear Can Envy
September 04, 2013 08:40PM
There is a lot of interesting info about Ursacks and the various bear canister types and approval agencies here, including an unsettling picture of a mangled Bearikade (scroll to 05/11/2012) that will definitely make me think twice before taking mine where the bears are bigger and meaner than in California.
avatar Re: Bear Can Envy
September 04, 2013 09:56PM
Quote
druid
There is a lot of interesting info about Ursacks and the various bear canister types and approval agencies here, including an unsettling picture of a mangled Bearikade (scroll to 05/11/2012) that will definitely make me think twice before taking mine where the bears are bigger and meaner than in California.


A while back there was a video of a bear jumping repeatedly on his front legs on top of a Ursack trying to break it. After seeing that I decided the Ursack has no real use unless you want powdered/pulverized meals.
Re: Bear Can Envy
September 04, 2013 10:39PM
Quote
Catalonian Burro
A while back there was a video of a bear jumping repeatedly on his front legs on top of a Ursack trying to break it. After seeing that I decided the Ursack has no real use unless you want powdered/pulverized meals.

They also don't seem to be very effective at habitualizing bears. Quoting one of the backpackinglight.com forum posts:

"Think about it. A bear gets to chew away on a good smelling sack and its saliva gets mixed in with your favorite trail bars, peanut butter tubes, and MH spaghetti. I have a dog that would gnaw on something like that for hours. From the bear's perspective it got the food. I'm sure the bear would be all excited next time it found a bright yellow chili-pop dangling from a tree. And from the hiker's perspective, the oatmeal-milk-coffee-beefstick-cheese paste is the new dinner seasoning."

Even the "Bear Test Videos" presented as evidence at ursack.com show the bears gnawing away contentedly at their ursack chew toy.
Re: Bear Can Envy
September 05, 2013 05:55AM
True, I have often thought of that. Still want to give it a try one day for the weight. Maybe when combined with aloksaks and the like, actual bear-using-as-tantalizing-chew-toy would be just an unlucky occurence.

To be honest, I am still pretty happy with my BV500, especially considering the cost.

Side note: I didn't know they had shot Yellow-yellow. Sad, but good to know the behavior hasn't been picked up by others.
avatar Re: Bear Can Envy
September 05, 2013 07:24AM
The very first time I used my Ursack... (it is affectionately called The Ursuck)
... it got hit... Upper Lyell Canyon... day 1 of JMT from TM to Roads End.
Didn't lose any food... but darn bear interrupted my TV watching to make me
get up and tell him to bugger off... (had it tied to a dead log) .. he bit holes in
it... I'll use it in elsewhere it is allowed... otherwise... waste o money in Yose.

Posted a pix of it in the past here...

but ... the picture above was suppose to be a joke. Not a serious discussion.



Chick-on is looking at you!
avatar Re: Bear Can Envy
September 05, 2013 02:27PM
Quote
HikingMano
True, I have often thought of that. Still want to give it a try one day for the weight. Maybe when combined with aloksaks and the like, actual bear-using-as-tantalizing-chew-toy would be just an unlucky occurence.

To be honest, I am still pretty happy with my BV500, especially considering the cost.

Side note: I didn't know they had shot Yellow-yellow. Sad, but good to know the behavior hasn't been picked up by others.

I might have been incorrect about other bears not picking up the behavior, but Yellow-Yellow was the master and one that a lot of other bears saw in action and tried to copy. Many of the stories claim that no other bear managed to succeed, although they might have tried after seeing her in action. Yellow-Yellow was shot and killed by a hunter in a legal hunt.

Here's several tributes:

Famous bear bandit is killed
http://www.adirondackdailyenterprise.com/page/content.detail/id/533958.html

Stephen Williams OFF THE NORTHWAY Legendary bear’s death a sad moment
http://www.dailygazette.net/standard/ShowStoryTemplate.asp?Path=SCH/2012/11/17&ID=Ar01100&Section=Local_News

A Yellow-Yellow Obituary
http://www.adirondackalmanack.com/2012/11/a-yellow-yellow-obituary.html

Legendary bear of the Adirondacks killed by hunter
http://www.wktv.com/news/local/Legendary-bear-of-the-Adirondacks-killed-by-hunter-179360471.html
Re: Bear Can Envy
September 05, 2013 03:40PM
Thanks for the links! thumbs up
avatar Re: Bear Can Envy
September 05, 2013 02:17PM
Quote
ttilley
I remember Garcia selling that old expedition model back in the mid-late 1990s...it's possible they never even put it in for approval, they stopped making it. Once Yosemite had an "official list" (sometime in the last half of the 2000s?) it always specified the model "612C".

Edit: at one time a few years ago there was a Sierra Inter-Agency Bear Management Group, or somesuch. Seems like that disbanded, and each unit is back to making it's own rules.

I believe they sort of got folded into the SierraWild.gov website. I don't think they specifically approve canisters any more.
Re: Bear Can Envy
September 05, 2013 05:24PM
At one time Yosemite rented the expedition (like mine),and the smaller size Garcias too. If they rented them out, they must have been approved.
avatar Re: Bear Can Envy
September 05, 2013 05:32PM
Who told you that your monster can was not allowed anymore?

I would question them up and down ... and continue to use it.

There has been a couple of times now that we've had to tell the rangers what was allowed...



Chick-on is looking at you!
avatar Re: Bear Can Envy
September 05, 2013 05:48PM
What was the model number on the Garcia Expedition? For Garcia they list model number "812".

For Bearikade the criterion appears to be the serial number: 1766 or higher.

Yosemite Allowed Bear Canisters
Re: Bear Can Envy
September 05, 2013 07:05PM
I was chatting with the bear enforcement officer up at LYV, telling him about the time that canister was attacked by a bear at Kearsarge Lakes, and showing him the scratches, claw and bite marks. He was so impressed he took my picture with my canister and "sent it in". The next night a different ranger came by and told me take whoever it was sent to said it was not an approved cannister.
avatar Re: Bear Can Envy
September 05, 2013 07:33PM
Quote
lschaaf
I was chatting with the bear enforcement officer up at LYV, telling him about the time that canister was attacked by a bear at Kearsarge Lakes, and showing him the scratches, claw and bite marks. He was so impressed he took my picture with my canister and "sent it in". The next night a different ranger came by and told me take whoever it was sent to said it was not an approved cannister.

I think the only Garcia model still OK is the 812, but that includes the earlier versions with straight sides. The wilderness permit stations still have those versions for rent.

As for defeating canisters, I think that general area (supposedly Rae Lakes) is where a bear got into several BearVaults. It was the older version with a round (instead of arrow-shaped) bump. I asked someone at SEKI, and was told that at least one bear would just stomp on the side until it popped. I saw one of the earlier models at LYV, and the lid was maybe a half-inch thick. Still - I've generally thought that cranking on the lid tight would do the trick, although a pain to take off in the morning. If it's torqued on tight, no bear is removing the lid, and humans will have difficulty.
avatar Re: Bear Can Envy
September 05, 2013 07:47PM
Straight sided Garcias have been rented all along - which may be why the Yosemite page now reads "812" - it used to read "812-C", which was specifically the current model. But the expedition model is much taller (while also having straight sides).

Edit: now I remember why I...remember...the Garcia expedition model. I borrowed one sea kayaking at Glacier Bay in 1997 (rental fee was 0).



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/05/2013 08:02PM by ttilley.
avatar Re: Bear Can Envy
September 04, 2013 08:58PM
SHRINKAGE!!!



Chick-on is looking at you!
avatar Re: Bear Can Envy
September 06, 2013 06:30PM
Quote
chick-on
SHRINKAGE!!!

Shouldn't that be in the Swedish Bikini Team thread?
avatar Re: Bear Can Envy
September 06, 2013 07:12PM
Exactly!



Chick-on is looking at you!
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