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Re: Yosemite names are the people’s property

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avatar Yosemite names are the people’s property
January 17, 2016 12:03AM
Delaware North, whose unmitigated gall apparently knows no bounds, is even claiming title to the very name “Yosemite National Park.”

http://www.sanluisobispo.com/news/local/news-columns-blogs/joetopia/article55100965.html
avatar Re: Yosemite names are the people’s property
January 18, 2016 02:34AM
Watch out or they'll trademark "United States of America".
avatar Re: Yosemite names are the people’s property
January 18, 2016 07:47AM
Quote
gophersnake
Watch out or they'll trademark "United States of America".

...as well as trademark the names:
"Majestic Yosemite Hotel"
"Half Dome Village"
"Big Trees Lodge"
"Yosemite Valley Lodge"
"Yosemite Ski & Snowboard Area"
avatar Re: Yosemite names are the people’s property
January 18, 2016 12:50PM
avatar Re: Yosemite names are the people’s property
January 18, 2016 02:06PM
This has got to be the most tone deaf thing I've seen a major company do in a long, long time. It's going to cost them more than the $51 million they were hoping to get from Aramark.
avatar Re: Yosemite names are the people’s property
January 18, 2016 04:05PM
Quote
y_p_w
This has got to be the most tone deaf thing I've seen a major company do in a long, long time. It's going to cost them more than the $51 million they were hoping to get from Aramark.

They don't care. DNC already has a bad reputation, but they don't care. They still make millions, billions?, in profit. THAT is all they care about.
avatar Re: Yosemite names are the people’s property
January 19, 2016 12:47PM
Quote
Dave
Quote
y_p_w
This has got to be the most tone deaf thing I've seen a major company do in a long, long time. It's going to cost them more than the $51 million they were hoping to get from Aramark.

They don't care. DNC already has a bad reputation, but they don't care. They still make millions, billions?, in profit. THAT is all they care about.

They had a reputation for indifference and perhaps incompetence, but this just reeks of malice.

Right now their chances of getting a new contract for an NPS concession are poor as a result of this move. Xanterra knew to back off the trademark registration when NPS complained.

Perhaps someone at the top simply doesn't want to back off, but I'm pretty sure that there are some in the company strongly advising the execs to let them sell for $2 million and get it over with.
avatar Re: Yosemite names are the people’s property
January 19, 2016 10:05PM
Ah.... just got an idea..... The Yosemite Conservancy might be a solution to end this problem. After the current mess makes it through the courts the YC should jump in and copyright/trademark/whatever the names. Then charge the NPS $100 a year for the rights to use them. Sounds good to me.
avatar Re: Yosemite names are the people’s property
January 19, 2016 11:52PM
Quote
Dave
Then charge the NPS $100 a year for the rights to use them. Sounds good to me.

And donate $100 per year to cover the NPS outlay. winking smiley
avatar Re: Yosemite names are the people’s property
January 20, 2016 08:28AM
They already donate millions. The $100 would just be to make the transaction complete and legal. Lawyers like that kind of thing.
avatar Re: Yosemite names are the people’s property
January 20, 2016 09:10AM
Quote
Dave
Ah.... just got an idea..... The Yosemite Conservancy might be a solution to end this problem. After the current mess makes it through the courts the YC should jump in and copyright/trademark/whatever the names. Then charge the NPS $100 a year for the rights to use them. Sounds good to me.

They'd be in the same predicament that Xanterra is in and that perhaps Delaware North finds itself in. The properties belong to the United States government and not a private entity. The solution would be for NPS to reclaim ownership and then make the license to the trademarks part of the concessionaire agreement.

At this point no concessionaire is likely to try this kind of stuff again, and if they do they'll meet an objection by the National Park Service.

Even so - the biggest name being mentioned in this mess the The Ahwahnee. After seeing that it was trademarked by YP&CC when they had a possessory interest in the building itself, that might just be the most reasonable case that Delaware North does own the trademark since it was explicitly transferred to their control.
avatar Re: Yosemite names are the people’s property
January 20, 2016 10:14AM
Aramark was staying out of commenting on trademark ownership earlier, but it looks like they have an official stand on it now.

Quote

http://www.sierrastar.com/2016/01/20/76874/public-outcry-following-planned.html

Aramark spokesman David Freireich said the company is committed to a smooth transition, whatever takes place.

“I think it’s important for the local community and visitors to realize that as the properties are being renamed, new and returning visitors can still count on us to deliver the great experiences and memories they expect and deserve,” Freireich said.

Aramark also has a position on the trademarking battle, he added.

“As far as the names themselves in the dispute, as a company, we firmly believe the names and trademarks in all national parks, not just Yosemite, belong to the park service and the American public,” Freireich said.
avatar Re: Yosemite names are the people’s property
January 20, 2016 02:41PM
The more I hear about Aramark, the more I like them. I just hope they live up to what they say.
avatar Re: Yosemite names are the people’s property
January 20, 2016 03:32PM
Quote
Dave
The more I hear about Aramark, the more I like them. I just hope they live up to what they say.

Frankly none of the big concessions companies have very good reputations. Aramark is often ridiculed for the quality of their ballpark concessions. Xanterra is owned by Phillip Anschutz. Don't know enough about Forever Resorts though.

You'll always have the same issues with seasonal workers who often don't care. Even then, I'd say the most pleasant worker I've ever met at a national park was a retired guy who did seasonal work as a server at the Canyon Soda Fountain at Yellowstone. Strangely enough it was managed by Delaware North.
avatar Re: Yosemite names are the people’s property
January 20, 2016 03:57PM
Quote
y_p_w
Xanterra is owned by Phillip Anschutz.

Is that the guy that destroyed the Southern Pacific Railroad?
avatar Re: Yosemite names are the people’s property
January 20, 2016 05:45PM
Quote
y_p_w
Quote
Dave
The more I hear about Aramark, the more I like them. I just hope they live up to what they say.

Frankly none of the big concessions companies have very good reputations. Aramark is often ridiculed for the quality of their ballpark concessions. Xanterra is owned by Phillip Anschutz. Don't know enough about Forever Resorts though.

You'll always have the same issues with seasonal workers who often don't care. Even then, I'd say the most pleasant worker I've ever met at a national park was a retired guy who did seasonal work as a server at the Canyon Soda Fountain at Yellowstone. Strangely enough it was managed by Delaware North.


The quality of the concessions are often more determined by quality of oversight of the concessionaire by the organization that hired them than by the concessionaire themselves. As an example, Centerplate runs the concessions at both AT&T Park in San Francisco (home of the SF Giants) and at Levi's Stadium (home of the 49ers). The food offered at AT&T Park is some the best food offered at any stadium or arena, but the food offered at Levi's Stadium is some of the worst I've had.

Same concessionaire (Centerplate), but totally different level of service. Reason: the SF Giants demand that Centerplate offer high quality food and there's penalties in their contract with the Giants if they don't. The 49ers on the other hand, don't really seem to care.

Hopefully in Yosemite, NPS will keep a close eye on Aramark so they deliver the high quality of service that they have promised.

.
Re: Yosemite names are the people’s property
January 20, 2016 08:43PM
Quote
y_p_w
Quote
Dave
The more I hear about Aramark, the more I like them. I just hope they live up to what they say.

Frankly none of the big concessions companies have very good reputations. Aramark is often ridiculed for the quality of their ballpark concessions. Xanterra is owned by Phillip Anschutz. Don't know enough about Forever Resorts though.

You'll always have the same issues with seasonal workers who often don't care. Even then, I'd say the most pleasant worker I've ever met at a national park was a retired guy who did seasonal work as a server at the Canyon Soda Fountain at Yellowstone. Strangely enough it was managed by Delaware North.

I have always had great experiences with parks that use Xanterra. My son once plugged up a toilet in our cabin at Zion Lodge at 5:30 am and they had a maintenance person come in 10 minutes to unplug it so we could use it. I really wished that Xanterra had won the Yosemite contract because I have never had a bad experience with them. I have had quite a few with DNC. With Forever Resorts, I have stayed at the cabins at Bryce Canyon and the North Rim of the Grand Canyon with no complaints other than food at Bryce Lodge could have used some work.
avatar Re: Yosemite names are the people’s property
January 20, 2016 09:10PM
Quote
parklover
Quote
y_p_w
Quote
Dave
The more I hear about Aramark, the more I like them. I just hope they live up to what they say.

Frankly none of the big concessions companies have very good reputations. Aramark is often ridiculed for the quality of their ballpark concessions. Xanterra is owned by Phillip Anschutz. Don't know enough about Forever Resorts though.

You'll always have the same issues with seasonal workers who often don't care. Even then, I'd say the most pleasant worker I've ever met at a national park was a retired guy who did seasonal work as a server at the Canyon Soda Fountain at Yellowstone. Strangely enough it was managed by Delaware North.

I have always had great experiences with parks that use Xanterra. My son once plugged up a toilet in our cabin at Zion Lodge at 5:30 am and they had a maintenance person come in 10 minutes to unplug it so we could use it. I really wished that Xanterra had won the Yosemite contract because I have never had a bad experience with them. I have had quite a few with DNC. With Forever Resorts, I have stayed at the cabins at Bryce Canyon and the North Rim of the Grand Canyon with no complaints other than food at Bryce Lodge could have used some work.

Funny you mention Bryce Canyon Lodge. On our first day at Bryce we got there at the lodge in time for a late lunch, although we were staying at Ruby's that night. They had only one server and as the orders came down and the other customers were complaining about their orders taking too long or not getting beverages, the server just stomped into the kitchen and completely melted down. Everyone in the dining room could just hear her screaming and then we didn't see her again. We asked a busboy what the deal was, and he said they didn't have enough staff on hand for that number of customers. Later on it looked like a manager took over the serving duties. This was back in 2006 when Xanterra was still the concessionaire at Bryce Canyon.
Re: Yosemite names are the people’s property
January 21, 2016 02:56PM
I have been outspoken about Delaware North's ransom in this whole thing...they are shameless and should be boycotted wherever they do business.

But that last story also struck a chord. My wife is a professional chef...and it can't be easy to attract competent service staff at some of these destinations. It's not exactly a career move...and when the kitchen is understaffed, and there's nobody you can call on short notice...it must be really hard to work in one of these restaurants or cafes.

One of the worst restaurant experiences we've had in the last ten years was at Grant's Grove...clearly nobody was managing the place, the servers were innocent and in experienced at best, and the food was dreadful. On the other hand, staffing something like that must be really a mess.



Balzaccom

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Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/21/2016 02:57PM by balzaccom.
avatar Re: Yosemite names are the people’s property
January 21, 2016 03:21PM
Quote
balzaccom
I have been outspoken about Delaware North's ransom in this whole thing...they are shameless and should be boycotted wherever they do business.

But that last story also struck a chord. My wife is a professional chef...and it can't be easy to attract competent service staff at some of these destinations. It's not exactly a career move...and when the kitchen is understaffed, and there's nobody you can call on short notice...it must be really hard to work in one of these restaurants or cafes.

One of the worst restaurant experiences we've had in the last ten years was at Grant's Grove...clearly nobody was managing the place, the servers were innocent and in experienced at best, and the food was dreadful. On the other hand, staffing something like that must be really a mess.

Certainly back then there might not have been great cellular coverage in the area or perhaps they could have called someone up on short notice. I know in summer it tends to be a lot of seasonal staff, and I'm guessing she was a college student during summer break. A lot of the other staff were even international workers; the busboy we talked to was from China - probably on a J-1 Visa.

I've certainly had a bad restaurant experience at Grant Grove Village. There weren't very many customers, but it didn't look like anyone cared to serve us. However, that was back when it was run by a small independent outfit and before Delaware North took over. OK - it was Asilomar Management Company, although they used a local sounding name. This was back in 2007 when Delaware North ran the operations at Lodgepole and Wuksachi Lodge. The latter wasn't too bad honestly.
Re: Yosemite names are the people’s property
January 21, 2016 06:04PM
Quote
y_p_w
Quote
parklover
Quote
y_p_w
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Dave
The more I hear about Aramark, the more I like them. I just hope they live up to what they say.

Frankly none of the big concessions companies have very good reputations. Aramark is often ridiculed for the quality of their ballpark concessions. Xanterra is owned by Phillip Anschutz. Don't know enough about Forever Resorts though.

You'll always have the same issues with seasonal workers who often don't care. Even then, I'd say the most pleasant worker I've ever met at a national park was a retired guy who did seasonal work as a server at the Canyon Soda Fountain at Yellowstone. Strangely enough it was managed by Delaware North.

I have always had great experiences with parks that use Xanterra. My son once plugged up a toilet in our cabin at Zion Lodge at 5:30 am and they had a maintenance person come in 10 minutes to unplug it so we could use it. I really wished that Xanterra had won the Yosemite contract because I have never had a bad experience with them. I have had quite a few with DNC. With Forever Resorts, I have stayed at the cabins at Bryce Canyon and the North Rim of the Grand Canyon with no complaints other than food at Bryce Lodge could have used some work.

Funny you mention Bryce Canyon Lodge. On our first day at Bryce we got there at the lodge in time for a late lunch, although we were staying at Ruby's that night. They had only one server and as the orders came down and the other customers were complaining about their orders taking too long or not getting beverages, the server just stomped into the kitchen and completely melted down. Everyone in the dining room could just hear her screaming and then we didn't see her again. We asked a busboy what the deal was, and he said they didn't have enough staff on hand for that number of customers. Later on it looked like a manager took over the serving duties. This was back in 2006 when Xanterra was still the concessionaire at Bryce Canyon.

Off the top of my head I can't remember what year it was that we stayed there, I would have to look at my travel diaries. Usually when we go to Bryce it is a day trip while we are staying in Zion. I have to say that Ruby's food has gotten really bad. Since we usually go to Bryce during Thanksgiving the restaurant and lodging is closed so we have eaten at Ruby's. The last time we were there was three years ago and it was horrible.
avatar Re: Yosemite names are the people’s property
January 21, 2016 07:18PM
Quote
parklover
Quote
y_p_w
Quote
parklover
Quote
y_p_w
Quote
Dave
The more I hear about Aramark, the more I like them. I just hope they live up to what they say.

Frankly none of the big concessions companies have very good reputations. Aramark is often ridiculed for the quality of their ballpark concessions. Xanterra is owned by Phillip Anschutz. Don't know enough about Forever Resorts though.

You'll always have the same issues with seasonal workers who often don't care. Even then, I'd say the most pleasant worker I've ever met at a national park was a retired guy who did seasonal work as a server at the Canyon Soda Fountain at Yellowstone. Strangely enough it was managed by Delaware North.

I have always had great experiences with parks that use Xanterra. My son once plugged up a toilet in our cabin at Zion Lodge at 5:30 am and they had a maintenance person come in 10 minutes to unplug it so we could use it. I really wished that Xanterra had won the Yosemite contract because I have never had a bad experience with them. I have had quite a few with DNC. With Forever Resorts, I have stayed at the cabins at Bryce Canyon and the North Rim of the Grand Canyon with no complaints other than food at Bryce Lodge could have used some work.

Funny you mention Bryce Canyon Lodge. On our first day at Bryce we got there at the lodge in time for a late lunch, although we were staying at Ruby's that night. They had only one server and as the orders came down and the other customers were complaining about their orders taking too long or not getting beverages, the server just stomped into the kitchen and completely melted down. Everyone in the dining room could just hear her screaming and then we didn't see her again. We asked a busboy what the deal was, and he said they didn't have enough staff on hand for that number of customers. Later on it looked like a manager took over the serving duties. This was back in 2006 when Xanterra was still the concessionaire at Bryce Canyon.

Off the top of my head I can't remember what year it was that we stayed there, I would have to look at my travel diaries. Usually when we go to Bryce it is a day trip while we are staying in Zion. I have to say that Ruby's food has gotten really bad. Since we usually go to Bryce during Thanksgiving the restaurant and lodging is closed so we have eaten at Ruby's. The last time we were there was three years ago and it was horrible.

I think later that night we went to Clarke's in Tropic.
Re: Yosemite names are the people’s property
January 24, 2016 07:37PM
I've only been to Bryce once (about 3 or 4 years ago). We stayed at Bryce Canyon Pines (about a 10 minute drive outside the park). We ate at the Lodge one night (pretty good but not good enough to justify the price as I recall), Ruby's one night (my wife's chicken was absolutely inedible...her hiking boots were probably more tender...to their credit, the waitress was VERY nice about trying to find a way to keep us happy (basically offered us a choice of anything on the menu or buffet for no extra cost). The real winner, though was the restaurant at the Pines. It may not have been an elegant dining experience but everything we had (as I recall, we had a dinner, a lunch and two breakfasts there) was very tasty and really inexpensive. Super nice people as well. Definitely worth a try if you're in the area.
Re: Yosemite names are the people’s property
January 24, 2016 09:10PM
Quote
DavidK42
I've only been to Bryce once (about 3 or 4 years ago). We stayed at Bryce Canyon Pines (about a 10 minute drive outside the park). We ate at the Lodge one night (pretty good but not good enough to justify the price as I recall), Ruby's one night (my wife's chicken was absolutely inedible...her hiking boots were probably more tender...to their credit, the waitress was VERY nice about trying to find a way to keep us happy (basically offered us a choice of anything on the menu or buffet for no extra cost). The real winner, though was the restaurant at the Pines. It may not have been an elegant dining experience but everything we had (as I recall, we had a dinner, a lunch and two breakfasts there) was very tasty and really inexpensive. Super nice people as well. Definitely worth a try if you're in the area.

Decades ago Ruby's used to have good food. The past two times we went it was really bad but I have to agree with you that the waitresses did the same with us and didn't charge us for one meal. I will have to try out the restaurant at the Pines the next time we go. TY for the suggestion.
Re: Yosemite names are the people’s property
January 26, 2016 03:15PM
Latest news today is after the park changed the names, now DNC has changed their lawsuit to charge the park by changing the names is "undermining the value" of the DNC trademarks.

http://www.mcclatchydc.com/news/nation-world/national/article56680303.html

Instead of settling this in some boring legal court on the East Coast why not we do this in public in downtown San Francisco next weekend on the Saturday before the SuperBowl at the place they have set up all the media events. The following would be great entertainment.

The executives of DNC plus their lawyers and the YNP park officials plus their lawyers will both stand within individual circles shoulder to shoulder. 50 feet away a line will be drawn for the public not to cross. In back of that line will be buckets of tomatoes and rotten eggs. 5 visitors to the Superbowl from every major region of the country plus 5 each people from major cities in our state will be allowed to join the public crowd by random choice. The lawyers will present their positions and their arguments with one rebuttal allowed from each. Then the public will show what they think while a large crowd watches the spectacle.



http://www.davidsenesac.com



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/26/2016 03:16PM by DavidSenesac.
avatar Re: Yosemite names are the people’s property
January 27, 2016 11:22AM
I just read this in the paper this morning. Not surprised...
Re: Yosemite names are the people’s property
January 29, 2016 09:31AM
I want to know what fool at the US Trademark and Patent office granted the trademarks in the first place? It's ironic that a government entity granted them the names, now the government is upset about it.
Re: Yosemite names are the people’s property
January 29, 2016 11:07AM
Quote
hotrod4x5
I want to know what fool at the US Trademark and Patent office granted the trademarks in the first place? It's ironic that a government entity granted them the names, now the government is upset about it.

If you have ever worked for the government or with a government agency you can understand how that happened. I think that fool should cough up the money and make this go away.
Re: Yosemite names are the people’s property
January 29, 2016 11:15AM
I just looked at Delaware North's FB page and they removed all of the people's comments about the name change.
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