Quotemrcondron Quoteusnationalpark Yes, this is the heart of the issue. Some people believe that a gun is a good way of protecting themselves, their families or other vulnerable parties. Some believe that guns are ridiculous and scary. Those that do not agree with carrying a gun for protection use other means to protect themselves., such as education about wildlife behavior, bear bells, etcby chiefcrash - Yosemite and the Sierra Nevada. News & Discussion
Quoteeeek Quotechiefcrashwhen confronted with the fact that the "militia" is about half the population, that's just a silly gun nut thing? I'm only saying that the claim, not matter where it originates, that half the population is a militia is chick-on droppings and only a silly gun nut would make such a claim. I guess an that means an act of congress is "chick-on droppings&quoby chiefcrash - Yosemite and the Sierra Nevada. News & Discussion
Quotemrcondron Quoteusnationalpark That is not how people think who choose to protect themselves with weapons. The weapon is like an insurance policy. It is only pointless to the anti-guns-in-the-parks school of thought. And like I said, so the battle continues. I do not believe this forum is the place to make a difference with a subject so divisive. Start a petition (both sides) make your voicesby chiefcrash - Yosemite and the Sierra Nevada. News & Discussion
Quotemrcondron Quotechiefcrash Quotemrcondron Quotechiefcrash QuoteThe Other Tom I can't think of any reasons why. I can think of a lot of reasons why not. Like, some drunk fool will shoot me. and they call us gun owners the paranoid ones... Chiefcrash, Don't lump us gun owners in with you "carry at all costs" guys. only if you don't lump me in with the "carry at all costsby chiefcrash - Yosemite and the Sierra Nevada. News & Discussion
Quotemrcondron Quotechiefcrash Quotemrcondron Chiefcrash, Just curious, how old are you? 24. How old are you? And how is it relevant? I'm 67. I figured you were about 25. Your argument style screams 25. Is there something wrong with my style, or is that just an ad hominem?by chiefcrash - Yosemite and the Sierra Nevada. News & Discussion
Quotemrcondron Chiefcrash, Just curious, how old are you? 24. How old are you? And how is it relevant?by chiefcrash - Yosemite and the Sierra Nevada. News & Discussion
Quotemrcondron Quotechiefcrash Quotemrcondron But why carry a gun in Yosemite? By this rational you would never be able to move or go anywhere because of all the stuff you would have to carry. So why a gun in Yosemite? Why carry a gun in Yosemite? In case I'm attacked by wildlife. In case I'm attacked by pot-farmers/poachers/other criminals. In case something goes horribly wrong and I'by chiefcrash - Yosemite and the Sierra Nevada. News & Discussion
Quotemrcondron Quotechiefcrash QuoteThe Other Tom I can't think of any reasons why. I can think of a lot of reasons why not. Like, some drunk fool will shoot me. and they call us gun owners the paranoid ones... Chiefcrash, Don't lump us gun owners in with you "carry at all costs" guys. only if you don't lump me in with the "carry at all costs" guys...by chiefcrash - Yosemite and the Sierra Nevada. News & Discussion
QuoteFrank Furter QuoteYou keep claiming guns are designed as lethal weapons. I keep pointing out examples of guns designed NOT to be lethal weapons. You seem to think these exceptions don't matter, which is a Fallacy of Accident I have yet to see anyone provide any sort of logical or rational basis to claim "firearms are designed to kill". Because they can't, it's too broad of a genby chiefcrash - Yosemite and the Sierra Nevada. News & Discussion
QuoteFrank Furter It is absolutely unproven that gun prevalence reduces crime. Two parallel sets of data may be related by A causing B, B causing A, or both A and B caused by C. There is no evidence that guns reduce crime and lots of evidence that guns are associated with accidental injury and disproportionate response. for one example: National Academy of Science report on Gun Violeby chiefcrash - Yosemite and the Sierra Nevada. News & Discussion
QuoteFrank Furter You have not demonstrated that a carried weapon is a valid, safe, or optimal device for dealing with the perceived threat. You seem to be arguing that carrying a weapon continuously for 50 yrs of adulthood will successfully protect against a violent crime or crimes, will not result in collateral injury to the owner or bystander, and will, during the 50 yrs of use, not resultby chiefcrash - Yosemite and the Sierra Nevada. News & Discussion
QuoteThe Other Tom I can't think of any reasons why. I can think of a lot of reasons why not. Like, some drunk fool will shoot me. and they call us gun owners the paranoid ones...by chiefcrash - Yosemite and the Sierra Nevada. News & Discussion
Quotetomdisco Do I need to take a gun to Yosemite? No! Do you need to force everyone else to do the same? No!by chiefcrash - Yosemite and the Sierra Nevada. News & Discussion
QuoteFrank Furter The central issue here is not about "a gun" (grease, soldering, or whatever) but about whether more firearms in Yosemite is a rational and socially beneficial policy. Forgot to add: A lot of states have changed over to a "shall issue" concealed carry system. Their crime rates have gone down since then. If one were to believe that there was a correlaby chiefcrash - Yosemite and the Sierra Nevada. News & Discussion
QuoteFrank Furter Quotechiefcrash Please state your reasons for claiming that gun owners are frequently fearful individuals, paranoid, and insecure. You don't have to look very far to find the primary reason that guns are carried by civilians legally or illegally is for protection against a perceived threat. That represents fear and insecurity. In the extreme and when the threat is inconsby chiefcrash - Yosemite and the Sierra Nevada. News & Discussion
QuoteFrank Furter Quotechiefcrash . It's just better to have something you don't need than to need something you don't have... Incredible! Consider the implications. Do you then take into the park: a dental drill with compressor auto detail paint a 16 foot ladder replacement parts for a hang glider All those, and many more, would fulfill the criteria of something you will not liby chiefcrash - Yosemite and the Sierra Nevada. News & Discussion
Quotemrcondron It seems that by all the activity on the boards the consciousness level of the firearm thing is rising. All three boards I post on are having a lot of posts and views. I suspect our leaders in Sacramento will be keeping up with this stuff and will enact something soon. It won't cost anything, won't raise taxes, will probably be popular with the majority of the state's citizens,by chiefcrash - Yosemite and the Sierra Nevada. News & Discussion
Quotemrcondron But why carry a gun in Yosemite? By this rational you would never be able to move or go anywhere because of all the stuff you would have to carry. So why a gun in Yosemite? Why carry a gun in Yosemite? In case I'm attacked by wildlife. In case I'm attacked by pot-farmers/poachers/other criminals. In case something goes horribly wrong and I'm stranded in the wilderness foby chiefcrash - Yosemite and the Sierra Nevada. News & Discussion
QuoteFrank Furter There is no significance, except to obscure the argument, to claim that guns are not designed as lethal weapons. If you wish to think of a firearm as a projective firing device to reassure yourself, you are welcome to indulge your needs to trivialize the topic. Guns are not toothpicks, pliers, or whatever item you want to claim is a "tool" when it is convenient for yby chiefcrash - Yosemite and the Sierra Nevada. News & Discussion
Quoteeeek QuotechiefcrashCare to debate on the fact that every able-bodied male aged 17-45 is in the militia by act of congress? No, I just consider it to be another silly gun nut thing. So you consider the 2nd Amendment to apply only to the militia, and then when confronted with the fact that the "militia" is about half the population, that's just a silly gun nut thing? Do you kby chiefcrash - Yosemite and the Sierra Nevada. News & Discussion
QuoteFrank Furter Quotechiefcrash Quoteeeek QuotechiefcrashYou imply a firearm is designed to kill. This is incorrect. I don't imply it. A firearm is designed to kill and injure. You are being disingenuous when you claim otherwise. A blank-only firing starter pistol is a firearm. Is it designed to kill? An olympic target pistol is a firearm. Is it designed to kill? A flare launcher is a fby chiefcrash - Yosemite and the Sierra Nevada. News & Discussion
QuoteFrank Furter This argument would be classified as feigned pedantry as a diversion from the central argument: The central argument (at least the one I'm responding to) is that a firearm is inherently a weapon and inherently designed to kill. I can not see how anything I said was a diversion from that, seeing as I was pointing out how they're not inherently weapons and not inherently desigby chiefcrash - Yosemite and the Sierra Nevada. News & Discussion
Quoteeeek QuotechiefcrashYou imply a firearm is designed to kill. This is incorrect. I don't imply it. A firearm is designed to kill and injure. You are being disingenuous when you claim otherwise. A blank-only firing starter pistol is a firearm. Is it designed to kill? An olympic target pistol is a firearm. Is it designed to kill? A flare launcher is a firearm. Is it designed to kill?by chiefcrash - Yosemite and the Sierra Nevada. News & Discussion
QuoteFrank Furter QuoteDennisW Quotemrcondron I have a question. Why would anyone carry a loaded gun in the sanctuary of Yosemite National Park? Enforcement rangers excepted please. If the park is such a "sanctuary" why do the rangers have to carry guns? If it is so safe they should not need guns right? A chicken and egg argument. Not really: if rangers have sufficient reasonby chiefcrash - Yosemite and the Sierra Nevada. News & Discussion
QuoteFrank Furter What is the risk of this occurring? Again, what is the risk of this occurring? Do you have any idea? Finally and again, what is the calculated risk of this occurring in the first place, and secondly, what is the likelihood that an amateur carrying a gun will have any impact on the events? This is not the stuff of Hollywood. Deal with real life. Do you carry oxygenby chiefcrash - Yosemite and the Sierra Nevada. News & Discussion
Quotemrcondron DennisW, Let me see if I have this correct. An amendment to the constitution is not a part of the constitution. Is that what I read in your post? So if what you are saying is correct then the second amendment and all the other amendments are not constitutional rights. And you wonder why people worry about people like you being armed. You can't think things through. I thiby chiefcrash - Yosemite and the Sierra Nevada. News & Discussion
Quoteeeek QuoteDennisWThe US Supreme Court ruled last year in Heller vs. DC that that 2nd Amendment is an individual right that does not require militia membership to exercise that right. So as far as the federal govt goes sees, it there is no debate. That's how they ruled that time. Next time it may differ. Debatable it remains. Care to debate on the fact that every able-bodied male aged 17-by chiefcrash - Yosemite and the Sierra Nevada. News & Discussion
Quoteeeek QuoteWarpath101So I injure and kill paper every time I go to the range? Sigh. No, you are simply improving your inchoate skills at injuring and killing by practicing with paper. Have any other specious arguments to present? You imply a firearm is designed to kill. This is incorrect. Strictly speaking, a firearm is merely a tool designed to fire a projectile. The choice of projecby chiefcrash - Yosemite and the Sierra Nevada. News & Discussion
Quotemrcondron If this thread got to things outside Yosemite it would become unwieldy. Let's keep it to Yosemite. So far that seems sufficient. Normally, I would agree with you. However, it does stand pointing out that it's not like this rule was changed with Yosemite in mind...by chiefcrash - Yosemite and the Sierra Nevada. News & Discussion
Quoteszalkowski On a more serious note: From the Random House Dictionary of the English Language (The Unabridged Edition, 1967) paranoia mental disorder characterized by systematized delusions and the projection of personal conflicts, which are ascribed to the supposed hostility of others I guess the reason I keep a fire extinguisher is because I'm paranoid of arsonists... Or, maybe,by chiefcrash - Yosemite and the Sierra Nevada. News & Discussion