Re: Have 2 Cancel

I have tickets starting Sat. July 7th - Tues. July 10th, leaving Wed. July 11th. 2007, Email me ASAP, Pick up in So. Cal. area ok or Overnight Mail.......
Rick

Can someone explain this to me?

And to me?

I have reservations to Yosemite and I can't go. I am offering them to the first taker, prime location@Lower Pines.....Rick

have2cancel wrote:

> I have reservations to Yosemite and I can't go. I am offering
> them to the first taker, prime location@Lower Pines.....Rick

I hope you can understand that your original post seemed like nothing more than gibberish describing dates without a description of whether or not you were describing lodging/camping reservations, transportation, and/or maybe even some form of entertainment.

Have you thought of just canceling and eating the cancellation costs (if any)? I'm sure someone would inquire at the Curry Village campground office and snap it up. Is it even possible to transfer reservations?

http://www.recreation.gov/marketing.do?goto=/nrrsreservationpolicies.html

y_p_w wrote:

> Is it even possible to transfer reservations?

I don't think they asked for ID last time I stayed there.

eeek wrote:

> y_p_w wrote:
>
> > Is it even possible to transfer reservations?
>
> I don't think they asked for ID last time I stayed there.

I guess it all depends before people start asking questions. I happen to have a non-European name and ancestry. If I were to produce a reservation form with a name that doesn't match my description, I think there's a good chance that I'm asked for ID to back up my reservations.

That being said, the trustworthiness of buying off someone's tickets or reservations these days is made difficult by the technology. If someone hands over a printout of a reservation and accepts the money, what's to prevent the original seller from pocketing the money and arriving early to take the reservation with another copy of the reservation confirmation? I remember one of the first "print yourself" tickets (with barcode) for a Cirque du Soleil show in 2000. These days I'll even see ticket scalpers trying to resell these printouts, which are more difficult because there's nothing stopping the original ticket buyer from printing a second copy. Now with sports tickets, season ticket holders can call in that they want to offer their seats for reseale by phone or electronically. Theoretically the original tickets are no longer valid and should be destroyed. However - there's nothing preventing the original owner from fraudulently trying to resell them even after they've been "deactivated".

I remember an early camping experience in the 80's at Lodgepole campground at Sequoia National Park. Back then reservations were made via Ticketron, which generally handled event tickets. My aunt produced a printed, counterfeit resistant ticket at the entry booth and got a campsite (don't recall if it was preassigned). The reservations were not made in anyone's name and as a bearer instrument, the tickets could be freely transferred or resold.

eeek wrote:
> y_p_w wrote:
>
> > Is it even possible to transfer reservations?
>
> I don't think they asked for ID last time I stayed there.
>

I almost hesitate to post this; it made me so mad I'm still grumbling about it. But there are, and have been campsites in the valley campgrounds selling on ebay.
http://search.ebay.com/search/search.dll?from=R40&_trksid=m37&satitle=Yosemite+campground&category0=
or type yosemite campground in the search box.

Apparently reservations can be transferred to another person, which in itself isn't a big deal, but it is if the person charges you for doing it. (note the two "buy it now" sites for $450-500).

I just recently reported this to the reservations.gov site, and they supposedly alerted the NPS; a member of the Yahoo Yosemite group has written the Chief Ranger (who he knows) and who was unaware it was going on and is checking into it, but beyond that, nobody seems to know yet.

I read a comment somewhere to the effect that there was 'not much they could do about it' but that's hogwash. All they have to do is make them non transferable, and require ID at checkin, like any hotel/motel. To make it easier for families, when you get the reservation you could list alternate 'representatives' such as your family members or folks camping with you, who would be allowed to check in if you couldn't. (they do this with Mt. Whitney permits and it works fine).

It's hard to believe it's even going on; for one thing, there's a 7 night limit from May through September in the valley and Wawona, so how would they ever enforce that if they just let people swap reservations around?

Anyway, I didn't mean to hijack the original purpose, which was simply offering reservations he wasn't going to use, not selling them. Incidentally, the cancellation fee is only $10, so those ebay sellers have a good alternative if they truly just made reservations and can't use them.

If nothing comes of the contact with the head ranger and NPS, I'm going to try to consolidate a list of people and groups to mail or contact. Personally, I think this is absolutely disgusting, but I guess some feel differently (the ebay seller, when I emailed him about it, told me to "get a life". 8^)

If anyone here knows of folks to contact who may see that action is taken, I encourage them to do it.

---

Gary
Yosemite Photo Galleries: http://www.pbase.com/roberthouse/yo

Sierrafan wrote:

> I almost hesitate to post this; it made me so mad I'm still
> grumbling about it. But there are, and have been campsites in
> the valley campgrounds selling on ebay.

Sigh. I should have known.

If they remove the North Pines campground, it will only encourage eBay scalping.

Yosemite campgrounds are mainly bear- and human-riddled garbage scows anyway. Find an out-of-the-way spot away from the valley so you don't have to listen to other people, a campsite will run you maybe $20 or less per night and some places, if you know where to look, are free.

Putting a campsite reservation on ebay is really scummy. Talk about something for nothing, I'm shocked anyone would bid on such a thing. It has nothing to do with removing North Pines, BTW. Scum is scum. And there's a sucker born on the internet every minute (or in this case, second).

Vince wrote:
> Yosemite campgrounds are mainly bear- and human-riddled garbage
> scows anyway. Find an out-of-the-way spot away from the valley
> so you don't have to listen to other people, a campsite will
> run you maybe $20 or less per night and some places, if you
> know where to look, are free.
>
> Putting a campsite reservation on ebay is really scummy. Talk
> about something for nothing, I'm shocked anyone would bid on
> such a thing. It has nothing to do with removing North Pines,
> BTW. Scum is scum. And there's a sucker born on the internet
> every minute (or in this case, second).

It all depends what you're looking for. With the summer traffic especially, naturally there will be a lot of people, and some will be careless, and thus, bears will be a problem.

I don't generally camp there in the summer (I like cooler weather anyway, and since I have other times available to be there, figure I'll leave the campsites for folks who only have that choice.

But even when the valley campgrounds are full, they can be enjoyable for the most part. They're great for exploring the valley and surrounding areas and trails during the different seasons. You can easily hop on a bike or the bus for a hot decent meal at the lodge, hence no cooking(!). It's generally quiet at night, and if you get up early you often don't see anybody, even in mid summer. If you know the less-traveled trails, you can walk practically around the entire valley and not see anybody. Plus, at least at the less-crowded times, people are friendly and always smile and say hello, so it's a nice atmosphere.

Again, it's not a backpacking or wilderness camping experience, but in its own way can be a very pleasant thing to do for a few days. So I would hate to see it spoiled by greedy ebayers. Actually, there's probably little danger of the times I go being sold out (so no danger from ebayers), but for the summer visitors it could be a real problem. I'm gathering up names and addresses in hopes that this can be fixed before say, October or November, before reservations become available for next summer.

I have found out they (are at least supposed to) check ID's for anyone who uses the senior or access passes to reserve, so it's not much of a step to do that for all. I myself could redesign their web form and wording to state that they're non-transferable and let them list alternates to check in, in probably an hour or less, so I'm sure they could do it if they have a mind to.

Incidentally, old "jaimefit", the ebayer who told me to 'get a life', made about $535 profit off her recent 2 sales of 6 and 7 nights, that's after deducting the reservation cost and ebay's costs, and she's got another $950 worth of sites up, from which about $550 would be profit, even if she actually does donate the supposed 10% to the Yosemite Association to alleviate her guilt.

---

Gary
Yosemite Photo Galleries: http://www.pbase.com/roberthouse/yo

That's a real shame - that greed can make so much profit from something that "belongs to the public"; and where any profit that is to be had should go to the agency that upkeeps this incredible national treasure.

Commenting on SierraFans thoughts on camping in the Valley. I agree 100%. I know people who refuse to even think about camping in the Valley because of the crowds..and no, it's not a backpacking trip. But the Valley is so incredible; early morning and late evening (even night) walks in the Valley are so exquisite I am inspired to wish I was a poet or songwriter (of which I am neither ). And yes, you can find solitude in the Valley even on summer weekends.

Hello,
This is my first posting-was reading thru the responses to this and was frankly kind of shocked at the hatred towards e-Bay and sellers. I wanted to present my take on this. I am an e-Bay seller, and don't consider myself to be either scum or greedy. I sell books and clothing that are reasonably priced and do make a small profit that helps me to provide for my family.
Secondly, we have tried to reserve a campground in Yosemite for the past three summers without any luck (yes, we write and try to speeddial without results). We were lucky enough to have a friend offer to give us a weeklong campground reservation that he could not use. We offered him the price he paid and we are thrilled at this opportunity. Why does it offend you when someone other than the "original" owner gives/sells this to someone else?? If I had know that e-Bay had sites for sale I would have considered buying if the price wasn't prohibitive. Camping in Yosemite is very difficult to come by when you have to go in the summer months (kids off school)-I want to know what the alternative is to obtaining a site from someone who can't use it?

SoCal Mom wrote:

> Why does it offend you when
> someone other than the "original" owner gives/sells this to
> someone else??

It doesn't unless they are doing it for a profit and are grabbing reservations that they never intended to use themselves.

eeek wrote:

> SoCal Mom wrote:
>
> > Why does it offend you when
> > someone other than the "original" owner gives/sells this to
> > someone else??
>
> It doesn't unless they are doing it for a profit and are
> grabbing reservations that they never intended to use
> themselves.

I don't think anyone here is arguing that free enterprise is bad when applied to private goods. I don't feel that comfortable about how entertainment/sports tickets are handled by private ticket transactions at higher than face value, but it doesn't disturb me that much.

However - I think that I and apparently others aren't comfortable with people deliberately booking the use of a public recreation resource in order to turn around and sell it. I don't think anyone has been critical of anyone intending to transfer a reservation at their cost (which will mitigate cancellation fees), but with those looking to make hundreds of dollars in profit.

SoCal Mom wrote:
> If I had know that e-Bay had sites for sale I
> would have considered buying if the price wasn't prohibitive.
> Camping in Yosemite is very difficult to come by when you have
> to go in the summer months (kids off school)-I want to know
> what the alternative is to obtaining a site from someone who
> can't use it?

If the 6-night sites were selling for $120 "buy it now", I'd agree with you, that it's just someone that found they couldn't use the campsite after all, and wanted to get their money back (minus a few bucks for ebay). But when they have a "buy it now" price of $450 for a campsite in our National Park, that's nothing but greed.

I notice one of the sellers added a line to her second set of campsites that "10% of the price will be donated to the Yosemite Association". Whoopee, so (if they really do it) they donate $45. Big deal, and I suspect it was done because they got some irate messages from folks like us.

How about donating ALL of the profit to the YA? Or, how about selling it for what they bought it for? Or, how about using the simple and inexpensive $10 provision that is given for just that situation...cancel the reservations and get a refund? Why not? Because they can't make a profit from it, that's why.

While it's always been hard to get campsites in YV in the summer, every single one of those ebay sellers who is on the phone on "opening day" getting sites is making it harder for you or any other legitimate camper to get a site for them or their family to do what the campgrounds are there for in the first place. The campgrounds were not put there so some ebay vulture could make money. (and no, not all ebay sellers are vultures, but in this case...)

Were they put there so the person with the most money could go camping in Yosemite? No. The price for camping from the NPS is reasonably affordable for all, as it should be, but not if it gets artificially inflated by profiteering middlemen. If campsites are for the people with the most money, then the persons who preserved, built, and maintain the parks should be the ones to get that profit. What did the ebayer contribute to that? Nothing.

For summer camping in the Valley, be sure you're right at the phone, with the campsite maps, your credit card, and the phone numbers and dates all right there at 7 AM pacific on the day they open, and keep dialing, as well as trying on the internet. Be as flexible as you can with dates and locations. It's still hard, you might have to stick with it for hours, and there's no guarantee that it will work, but it certainly won't help to have profit-seeking ebayers competing with you for that site. Even if that isn't their initial motive, they might be tempted to "buy a few extra sites" in case their friends want to go" (which they can always sell for a profit on ebay if not). Result? Fewer sites available for the next person who would have really used them.

I think the campgrounds should be used for what they're designed for, (for people to enjoy and experience Yosemite) and in the way they're made available to all, for whatever price the NPS finds reasonable and justifiable, period.

---

Gary
Yosemite Photo Galleries: http://www.pbase.com/roberthouse/yo

>It has nothing to do with removing North Pines, BTW. Scum is scum.

If you remove supply from a situation where there is already excessive demand, you increase the profit motive for those who may want to insert themselves as middlemen, much like concert ticket scalpers.

Mixolydian wrote:

> If you remove supply from a situation where there is already
> excessive demand, you increase the profit motive for those who
> may want to insert themselves as middlemen, much like concert
> ticket scalpers.

The principle is right, but I think they're separate issues. The scalping is already beginning, with North Pines still in use, so keeping it is not going to stop scalping. Making reservations non-transferable and requiring ID at checkin will stop scalping, keeping North Pines won't. I'm not saying I think they should tear out NP campground, I don't, just that it's incidental to the scalping issue.

---

Gary
Yosemite Photo Galleries: http://www.pbase.com/roberthouse/yo

You can click on "Report This Item" on the bottom of the eBay page to try to get eBay to remove the listings.

I, also, find it offensive that this profit-taking is occuring. This is nothing against EBay sellers, who are often honest, ethical people. Of course, people are creative in finding the "cracks"in a system.

BUT, now that this has been revealed, the NPS has an obligation to respond to this. The fix is simple. Make the reservations clearly non-transfer-able.

This has worked well on Mt. Whitney, that has that policy. The places that people publicize their little stunt, is populated with many people aware of the policy, who point out the policy right away. A lot of stuff is forestalled.

This would NOT be difficult to do, and would solve the problem. Among other things, at that point it would be a violation of federal statues, which would make it easy for EBay to respond to a complaint. Right now, if the practice is legal, they really have no recourse.

Change the regulation, and *WE'LL* keep an eye out for this abuse!



Post Edited (07-17-07 01:12)