Re: Preparing for Half Dome

Story and video out of Fresno's KFSN tv. Video shows people on the cables wearing sandals.

http://abclocal.go.com/kfsn/story?section=news/local&id=6866603

The park should enlist the aid of climbing experts to come up with a detailed sign, to post at the beginning of the Mist Trail and again at the base of the cables, on exactly what clothing, equipment, water and supplies are required to make the ascent and exactly how to ascend the cables safely. From what I can tell the only warning signs are those regarding lightning, and that's just one of many factors to consider. Proper footwear would seem to be an absolute requirement.

Some people are ignoring the signs as they stand today. All the info about water, clothing, footwear, timing, difficulty, etc. are all in the park literature given to visitors when they enter the park plus the park web site goes into greater detail. It doesn't register with some people.

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Old Dude

Obviously there's only so much you can do to warn people. But it seems to me that the signage is a little remiss. They should have a warning sign at the beginning of the Mist Trail, so that people don't get all the way up to the start of the cables to realize they're unprepared. At the very least I would have a sign with a list of requirements for Half Dome, stating that you must wear hiking boots in good condition, have good gloves, have ____ amount of fresh water or a giardia-rated filter, adequate amount of calories, sunglasses, sunscreen, flashlight, etc. And that you must start the trail by 6 a.m. in order to be allowed to the summit of Half Dome. And that you must be in physical condition to ascend 4,700 vertical feet and come back down. And that if there is any chance of rain or thunder in the forecast, that you cannot ascend the cables. The same warnings at the bottom of the cables, but by then it's too late - they must be warned at the trailhead. Of course you can't prevent them from violating the rules, and going ahead despite all the warnings, but at least if you present the warnings clearly and unmistakably up front, at the beginning of the trail, it could prevent some of these mishaps and it could deter people who are not prepared or in good enough condition. I don't see how it could hurt anything to have dramatic, stern warnings and lists of the minimum requirements to make the climb.

Since this is a different HD thread I guess I'll just say this:

People read what they want. They can barely "read" the pictures now.
They will just whip by without reading or just ignoring what they do read.
Such as: No dogs = It's ok.. take your dog.. cause you are special

The only solutions I see are:
1) remove the cables entirely
2) place a volunteer or ranger at the top of the shoulder to give advice

I actually thought they were doing something close to #2 this year.
At least that is what I heard. Obviously not though.

Something I've been wondering after reading all these stories about Half Dome: how are these 911 calls being made? I thought there was no cell phone service in Yosemite.

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bill-e-g
I actually thought they were doing something close to #2 this year.

They do that fairly often.

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bill-e-g

2) place a volunteer or ranger at the top of the shoulder to give advice

I actually thought they were doing something close to #2 this year.
At least that is what I heard. Obviously not though.

When I was there a couple of weeks ago (thunderstorms all around; rain) there was a ranger on top (I wasn't up there, had stopped at the base of the cables when the clouds moved in) that was warning everyone; and came down herself. I was behind her as she was descending sub dome, she warned people on their way up and the majority listened somewhat impatiently and continued on up, wiping the rain off their glasses as they did so.

This doesn't change my mind that signs should be put up. People may ignore warnings, but I think that the warnings should still be given (for those who aren't as knowledgeable about the potential dangers as we are).

Jon,
I'll ask you the same thing I asked Bob Weaver:

Come up with some signage that would make a difference. Be ready for some hard questions and criticisms about its efficacy.

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Old Dude

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mrcondron
Jon,

Come up with some signage that would make a difference. Be ready for some hard questions and criticisms about its efficacy.

Mike:

I'm not going to go into exact wording, because I simply don't have the time (preparing for JMT hike & numerous other day-to-day goings on). But here's what I think the general, non-hiking public should be specifically informed about:

Deaths have been contributed by people hiking when they are chilled, overly tired, rock is wet, and from lightning. Title could begin with what one poster said the Whitney sign says "PEOPLE DIE HERE".

Would everyone listen to it? No. Would some? I believe so. I think it would prevent some from even starting.

Jon

Jon, I agree.
The sign at the cables is lacking.
It only says about Lightning.
"I'm getting rained on... but those aren't thunderclouds... let's go!"



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/17/2009 06:50AM by bill-e-g.

OK, here's my signage.

HALF DOME TRAILHEAD

Please follow all instructions carefully.

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Step 1. Don't.

The end.
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Views of the waterfalls are superior at Glacier Point and Wasburn Point, which you can drive to.
Unobstructed 360-degree views of the Sierras can be had at Sentinel Dome, which requires only a 1-mile hike with only a 300-foot elevation gain.

While you're here though, take the trails through the Happy Isles area. It will be time far better spent than trudging up to Half Dome. The Happy Isles area is a beautiful, cool, lush, water-filled wonderland oasis with striking beauty at every turn, and filled with life (you might even spot bear cubs frolicking) and welcoming to all. Half Dome is an ugly, dry, barren, hot granite wasteland with smoggy views of the park, and filled with death and injury and misery. It is suitable only for insecure men desperate to prove their masculinity to someone by climbing a rock and standing at the edge of a 4,700 foot vertical drop.

Make the right choice!

Courtesy your Park Service



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/17/2009 08:46AM by Bob Weaver.

Bob,

I like it. Let's go with that one.

Jim

This is the rub. What do you do to dissuade these guys and gals from doing stupid stuff? It's the stupidity that's killing them.

It is suitable only for insecure men desperate to prove their masculinity to someone by climbing a rock and standing at the edge of a 4,700 foot vertical drop.

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Old Dude

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mrcondron
This is the rub. What do you do to dissuade these guys and gals from doing stupid stuff? It's the stupidity that's killing them.

Stupidity is deadly. That'll never change.

I suggest as an exercise you come up with a set of signage that you think will make a difference. I bet you can't come with something that will stand up to strong criticism.

Brevity is key in signage.

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Old Dude



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/16/2009 06:08PM by mrcondron.

Thanks for contributing to the positive friendly atmosphere.

Nothing unfriendly intended. I just proposed you give coming up with signage a try. It's not an easy thing to do.

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Old Dude

Critisize Away

There's cell coverage in the valley. And you'll see people chatting on their cell phones on the top of HD.

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bill-e-g
There's cell coverage in the valley. And you'll see people chatting on their cell phones on the top of HD.

I did so, but kept it relatively short.

I figured that cell coverage would be pretty good when I heard some kid in a large group chatting away in a campsite at the junction of John Muir and Clouds Rest Trails.

I couldn't even get a signal in Oakhurst unless I went to the 4th floor of the hotel (T-mobile). So I didn't even try in the park...

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Bob Weaver
I couldn't even get a signal in Oakhurst unless I went to the 4th floor of the hotel (T-mobile). So I didn't even try in the park...

We camped at Deadman Creek while I was gone from here. The T-mobile people had no service. My phone (Verizon) had 4 bars.

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bill-e-g


Critisize Away

Needs more cow bell.

Cell phone coverage will continue to improve. The Sentinal Dome site and the Tuolumne Meadows site have not been brought up to speed, yet. There was a lot of cable damage this year (there are tons of underground cables at the actual tower) so the repairs are ongoing. On a good day, there is still coverage to the Dome, but not as good as later in the season.

We went up 4 mile and down Panorama on Saturday and had cell coverage (Verizon) for nearly the entire time. We have also had cell coverage for the whole Upper Yosemite Falls hike, also.

I should qualify this by saying, we didn't talk on the phone, just noticed we had coverage.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/17/2009 10:03AM by cornbread.

Wow.
It pains me to say this but:

I guess Muir was one heck of an insecure bastard.

I guess that I am totally missing something, here. 1) The hike to the Dome made only a moderate impression on me other than it was a long dayhike, and the view was equal to others that I have seen in the park (I will re-evaluate after summiting Dana this coming weekend) 2) I don't remember any 5 gallon water crisis, as I filled my 1 ltr bottle all along the way 3) I thought that the choice to walk or not walk the cables was pretty obvious...apparantly not. Maybe I have spent too much time abroad, where people choose to do as they please when taking on a summit, with the understanding that they choose to take on responsibility for their own lives, as the YOSAR supermen/women are a unique featur to the US.

You only had one liter to go from the Merced up to the top of half dome and back down to the Merced? Isn't like like 8 miles with just one liter of water?

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dqniel
You only had one liter to go from the Merced up to the top of half dome and back down to the Merced? Isn't like like 8 miles with just one liter of water?

Mmmmm - "filled up along the way" would seem to imply finding several water sources along the route. She was walking alongside a river. Whether it was treated is another issue. For the paranoid there are micron-filter bottles like the ones from Katadyn or maybe just carrying along a filter.

I had access to a filter.

I regularly drink about a litre per 5-8 miles; (billy and Mike can attest;I usually give away my second bottle that I carry).

I am from the desert and was taught from a young age how to conserve water metabolically (you can train yourself to conserve water).



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/19/2009 06:27PM by Bee.

I drink a lot of water, I'm about 240lbs., but 7-8 miles on a liter isn't unusual. I came out from Branigan to HH on two liters once. I was sorry and wished I had more but I didn't have a filter with me and the thought of the cold can of coke waiting for me at the BB parking lot got me up the hill. The trip to Half Dome from the valley floor has water all along the way with the last source being the spring about one mile from Half Dome.

If you do HD without a filter then how much water you should carry is really tough to say.

Last weekend coming out from Kibbie we each drank about a cup maybe and that was about 5 miles. Going in to Kibbie I don't think we had more than a swig or two but again that's only about five miles. Going up the switchbacks out of HH at one o'clock on a hot July day I've drunk nearly two liters.

bill-e-g, I swear, is a camel. He'll go a day with a 1.5 liter pack and have enough left for dinner.

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Old Dude

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Bee
(you can train yourself to conserve water).

"I am not thirsty. It's just my imagination. These muscle cramps, headaches and unusual fatigue are caused by something else. I don't need water. Water is a nasty habit. Hydration has something to do with geology. No, that stuffed chicken up ahead on the trail is not a dehydration induced allusion. Neither is that goat over there. Maybe just a small sip now? No, I can wait another 10 miles. I'm tough. Why am I lying down on the trail with dirt in my face? Why is everything turning black! Is there a storm coming? The chicken has moved closer. It's talking to me!"

Jim



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 06/20/2009 07:35PM by tomdisco.

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tomdisco

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Bee
(you can train yourself to conserve water).

"I am not thirsty. It's just my imagination. These muscle cramps, headaches and unusual fatigue are caused by something else. I don't need water. Water is a nasty habit. Hydration has something to do with geology. No, that stuffed chicken up ahead on the trail is not a dehydration induced allusion. Neither is that goat over there. Maybe just a small sip now? No, I can wait another 10 miles. I'm tough. Why am I lying down on the trail with dirt in my face? Why is everything turning black! Is there a storm coming? The chicken has moved closer. It's talking to me!"

Jim

Amusing.

My 2 cents.

Unless it is very hot I only carry 1 litre of water. 2 pounds.
Did the same thing for HD and Clouds earlier this year. 1 liter with some to spare to the spring.
Filled up 1 litre at the spring. Went up Half Dome. Came back down.
Filled up 2 litre Platy and another litre in the hydration pack and up to Clouds.
Good for din din and bkfast and start of next day hike.

It all depends on the individual. If you go enough you'll figure out what you need.
Go enough and end up with an additional full litre at your destination and eventually you
say "now... why did I garry that additional 2 pounds 8+ miles and 2K+ elevation?"

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Bee

I am from the desert and was taught from a young age how to conserve water metabolically (you can train yourself to conserve water).

Well, urinre production and sweating are involuntary functions. However, I did hear that those sophisticated in hiking in hot and cold weather would not walk fast enough to sweat and therefore conserve water that would ordinarily be lost in perspiration. Slower breathing will result in less lost through exhaled air. If you inhale and exhale through a scarf or clothing over the face, you may recapture exhaled water by inspiring through this facial covering.

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The cure for a fallacious argument is a better argument, not the suppression of ideas.
-- Carl Sagan

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Frank Furter

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Bee

I am from the desert and was taught from a young age how to conserve water metabolically (you can train yourself to conserve water).

Well, urinre production and sweating are involuntary functions. However, I did hear that those sophisticated in hiking in hot and cold weather would not walk fast enough to sweat and therefore conserve water that would ordinarily be lost in perspiration. Slower breathing will result in less lost through exhaled air. If you inhale and exhale through a scarf or clothing over the face, you may recapture exhaled water by inspiring through this facial covering.

Nothing nearly as sophisticated as mentioned.

It is as simple as covering up that tank top and shorts by wearing loose clothing (as the bedoins and other desert natives do) thereby, creating an air space that helps preserve a constant temperature, thus, allowing for less sweat/less water intake.

Look, folks, everyone's metabolism is different; mine happens to need less water, stay cooler, and unfortunately, get cold very easily. Beyond that, I really don't have anything else to add to the discussion.

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Bee

Nothing nearly as sophisticated as mentioned.

It is as simple as covering up that tank top and shorts by wearing loose clothing (as the bedoins and other desert natives do) thereby, creating an air space that helps preserve a constant temperature, thus, allowing for less sweat/less water intake.

Look, folks, everyone's metabolism is different; mine happens to need less water, stay cooler, and unfortunately, get cold very easily. Beyond that, I really don't have anything else to add to the discussion.

Actually, many of us were assuming that you were holding your breath throughout the entire trip... hiking with barnyard animals would tend to encourage that.
(signed)
The Kiwi-Marmot Free Spirit Society



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/22/2009 12:02PM by szalkowski.

It's clearly risky to go up with sandals, flip-flops, etc. Although 99% (if not 100%) of these people finish the climb safely regardless. The man who fell in 2007 had proper shoes in very good weather AFAIK. But it seems footwear doesn't seem as big an issue as attempting to go up in bad weather conditions.

If there are new footwear requirements, would a ranger be assigned up there to enforce them? Would hikers be allowed to prevent those w/o proper footwear to go up if a ranger isn't there? If caught going up in sandals, could one be fined?

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krusovice
It's clearly risky to go up with sandals, flip-flops, etc. Although 99% (if not 100%) of these people finish the climb safely regardless. The man who fell in 2007 had proper shoes in very good weather AFAIK. But it seems footwear doesn't seem as big an issue as attempting to go up in bad weather conditions.

If there are new footwear requirements, would a ranger be assigned up there to enforce them? Would hikers be allowed to prevent those w/o proper footwear to go up if a ranger isn't there? If caught going up in sandals, could one be fined?

If I ever try it again, I'll probably pack some climbing shoes or maybe approach shoes.

I don't remember any water sources once I was past the LYV when I did it, granted it was in late July. I guess there are ample streams this time of year?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/19/2009 01:25PM by dqniel.

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dqniel
I don't remember any water sources once I was past the LYV when I did it, granted it was in late July. I guess there are ample streams this time of year?

I backpacked so my campsite at the junction of Clouds Rest and .Juhn Muir Trails wasn't too far away.

I do remember people fiddling around with a water filter on the Half Dome trail. There's a spring somewhere on the trail and they were loading up.

My son Nick and I went up Half Dome on Thursday, June 18. Warmish day, threat of thunder had mostly passed. We wore boots, took 3 liters water each (and drank almost all of it, plus a good squirt at Vernal Fall Bridge on the way back down to pizza, ice cream and showers. We left our car at the backpacker lot at 5:30 AM, topped at 10:30 AM, left at 11:30 AM and got back down exactly 10 hours after start at 3:30 PM (including a major snack break upbound at Little Yosemite, an hour on top, and a major snack/photo break at the La Casa Nevada site). We beat most everyone going the full route but not the Little Yosemite campers who left their campsites early. Access to the cables was still instantaneous when we arrived there, with just a handful of people on their way down at 10:15 AM. We got to the top at 10:30 AM. I was very proud of my son whose gumption seems to know few bounds.

On the way up, we saw a handful of other guys with "hiking sandals" on their feet, and many people with just tennis shoes. I can't even imagine doing this from Happy Isles - my feet would be hamburger, my ankles knotted up.

Going up the cables, we watched two bottles of Gatorade from a couple hunded feet up take the plunge. One came to rest on the ledge just south of the base of the cables; the other kept dancing down the slabs into the Tenaya Canyon Abyss. It was mesmerizing to watch as we worked our way up the stranded steel.

Watched plenty of people cheating death on the Visor, including one guy who seemed to be utterly unaware that he was more than 6 inches from Mirror Lake. Standing and maneuvering, with back turned, on that diagonal slab on the visor so that his buddies could get photos of him, then clambering around with abandon to the ledge about 20 feet below. Most people warching seemed to be amused at most; Nick and I were horrified.

Other happy people gave away their sandwiches to the friendly marmot and squirrels, a few folks went searching for an apparently nonexistent benchmark with their GPS gadgets, and we called my wife on the cell phone just let her know we had survived the first battle with cables. Speaking of cell coverage, from Little Yosemite to the top we had it virtually all of the time. We surmised that it was a combination of the Range Station at LY and Mt. Hoffman, but the next day we did not get it just east of the Cloud's Rest summit, so after that we were not sure where the repeaters might be.

Coming back down the cables was different. By that time, the upward traffic had increased dramatically, with a roughly 100-person waiting line at the cable base and a solid line of people, some rather wide, heading up. Passing on the inside of the cables was occasionally difficult, but everyone was genuinely courteous and apparently very happy.

It was a good day. Personally, I prefer the views from Glacier Point and Cloud's Rest, and enjoy Eagle Peak as much as either of these latter two (Eagle Peak is almost always quiet and lonely, as it was last Tuesday the 16th of June).

On this last trip to Yomemite, two funny comments of note:

1 - By a Kiwi lady, regarding *blond-colored* Black Bear No. 6 as he routed for bugs and nuts around the Upper Falls Trail - "Why do they color them"?

2 - From a nice first time visitor of Indian descent at Bridalveil Fall, to me, approximately - "Does Curry Village have anything to do with Indian Curry?"

:-)

Bruce Jensen

I hope the people giving food to animals were reported and fined.

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dqniel
I hope the people giving food to animals were reported and fined.

Have you ever tried reporting such people?

No, but I'm guessing it never leads to results

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dqniel
No, but I'm guessing it never leads to results

Depends on the animal. If there's any fine for deliberately feeding a rodent, I'd think it would be fairly small. I do agree that it's not a healthy thing for the animals, but it is something that doesn't put people at serious injury risk (unless the animal is rabid). However - the deliberate feeding of rodents has led to many of the associating people with food sources. At the base of the Half Dome cables, I saw someone zipping up someone else's pack when it was left open. A squirrel tried getting into it to raid the food stash.

Where they're likely to crack down is with people deliberately feeding or leaving food out for bears. When bears start expecting that human handouts are their food sources, it becomes a problem. I've heard of some that get used to handouts and become aggressive when they don't get food.

I think it's unnecessary and just conditions animals to rely on humans to the point where it's either detrimental to their health and/or they become pests. It was annoying having squirrels sit fearlessly on rocks within an arms length while I was trying to eat at the base of the cables. Sit your sandwich or pretty much anything down without looking and they'd swarm it.

There's no reason for people to feed them so they shouldn't. Seems simple enough

They're so cute. I think I'll feed them during the summer so they stand a better chance of dying in the winter because they haven't put up food to see them through. I can't help it. They're just too darn cute for their own good.

Half Dome goer-uppers (not a hike but not a climb either) don't feed the cute little rodents. It's the same as killing them as they will starve in the winter. During the summer when they are supposed to be stashing food for the winter they are spending their days begging an easy meal from hikers. Smash them with a rock. It's a quicker death than starvation and more humane.

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Old Dude

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mrcondron
They're so cute. I think I'll feed them during the summer so they stand a better chance of dying in the winter because they haven't put up food to see them through. I can't help it. They're just too darn cute for their own good.

Half Dome goer-uppers (not a hike but not a climb either) don't feed the cute little rodents. It's the same as killing them as they will starve in the winter. During the summer when they are supposed to be stashing food for the winter they are spending their days begging an easy meal from hikers. Smash them with a rock. It's a quicker death than starvation and more humane.

I would bet that the ones that die during the winter will provide food for the more hardy.

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The cure for a fallacious argument is a better argument, not the suppression of ideas.
-- Carl Sagan

Daniel, you are absolutely right about feeding being bad for the critters and reporting them - but when we were there, no ranger was present that I could see anywhere between the saddle and summit, and for anyone to report the humans sharing their food would have been difficult. Photographs could have been taken I suppose, but then the culprits would have to have been located.

I think that most people feed the animals out of ignorance. Perhaps a friendly approach and a quick lesson on the dangers of feeding the animals might remedy the problem and save bad feelings, bad memories, and the hassle of tying the rangers up with administrative duties.

You don't need to feed the animals. They will find food by themselves.

(this is for Jim "tomDisco Duck" )

(I forgot about Chick-on snacking on that little "present" that was in the middle of our 8,500ft campsite)