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Re: Stream Crossings at High Water

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avatar Stream Crossings at High Water
June 16, 2009 01:46PM
Given the high water season, might be a good idea to open a discussion on best (ie safest) technique for crossing streams. Having fished a bit, I find that any moving water higher than my knees to be quite problematic.

A useful resource is the following: http://www.mountain-survival.net/chp9.html
I always used a stick on the downstream side, but they recommend using it on the up side as you lean into the current.


Bill-E-G try to keep this serious.

I thought of posting some links to pontoon shoes or stilts, but couldn't find any good ones. There are some links to walking across the English Channel but few useful fotos. Some may find the following tractor of interest:





The cure for a fallacious argument is a better argument, not the suppression of ideas.
-- Carl Sagan




Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/16/2009 01:55PM by Frank Furter.
avatar Re: Stream Crossings at High Water
June 16, 2009 02:14PM
Right now I'm trying to figure out who the heck voted for throwing the chick-on over the cliff!
I guess they are just jealous of chick-on or something.
I can understand a couple of jaded votes due to some history... but more than a few... huh!?!?
Guess people want some reverse psychology chick-on!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/16/2009 02:15PM by bill-e-g.
avatar Re: Stream Crossings at High Water
June 16, 2009 03:21PM
Quote
bill-e-g
Right now I'm trying to figure out who the heck voted for throwing the chick-on over the cliff!
I guess they are just jealous of chick-on or something.
I can understand a couple of jaded votes due to some history... but more than a few... huh!?!?
Guess people want some reverse psychology chick-on!

Fur on a chicken? Perhaps the voters got confused as to individual referred to by the option "chuck his furry butt off the dome" .



The cure for a fallacious argument is a better argument, not the suppression of ideas.
-- Carl Sagan
avatar Re: Stream Crossings at High Water
June 16, 2009 09:04PM
Quote

Frank, what else did the article mention?
Thanks for asking, (Shamelessly promoting my thread):


http://www.mountain-survival.net/chp9.html



Normal locations of shallowest water and safest crossing sites.


Addition choice tidbits from the reference:

"Trousers are unbloused and shirts are pulled out of the trousers. All pockets are buttoned. This allows water to escape through the clothing. Otherwise the clothing would fill up and retain water, which would weigh the body down. This is especially critical if an individual must swim to shore. Depending on the circumstances of the crossing (for example, tactical situation, temperature of the air and water), the crossing can be made in minimal clothing so that dry clothing is available after the crossing. Boots should be worn to protect feet from rocks; however, socks and inner soles should be removed. On the far side, the boots can be drained and dry socks replaced."

"The rucksack should be worn well up on the shoulders and snug enough so it does not flop around and cause you to lose your balance. The waist strap MUST be unbuckled so you can get rid of the pack quickly if you are swept off your feet and have to resort to swimming. If a pack has a chest strap it must also be unbuckled. "



Direction of current --->



The cure for a fallacious argument is a better argument, not the suppression of ideas.
-- Carl Sagan
avatar Re: Stream Crossings at High Water
June 16, 2009 09:23PM
Are you getting some sort of kick-back?

That stuff is just from the link.

Mousey no worky?

I take my shoes off. Keep socks on (I HATE the cold water). Unbuckle waist belt.
Trudge across. With luck the dangleberries are spared the shrinkage.
Ring out socks on other side and bite a stick cause my feet are killing me from the cold.
Either put on dry pair of socks and dry shoes or put back on wet socks...

All that only after looking up and downstream and failing to find a log to cross on...

If the stream is really roaring... then turn around if no logs to x on or head upstream
and spend alot of time looking for an easy way across...
avatar Re: Stream Crossings at High Water
June 16, 2009 09:38PM
Quote
bill-e-g
Are you getting some sort of kick-back?

..

No, but I am highly suggestible and easily persuaded by any superficially reasonable proposals.

After all, the material is touted as:

"This US Army Field Manual is the source material for this website. This is the finest book written on "real world" mountaineering (not just for sport). In current use with Navy Seals, Army Rangers and Special Forces, Marines, and sport climbers. Covers basic techniques, movement of individuals and units, and evacuation. Operations on glaciers and snow covered mountains, fixed alpine paths, also master training program. Climbers who do not read this book are already on the edge of falling."


I already feel light-headed.



The cure for a fallacious argument is a better argument, not the suppression of ideas.
-- Carl Sagan




Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/16/2009 09:55PM by Frank Furter.
avatar Re: Stream Crossings at High Water
June 16, 2009 09:45PM
Do we need to bring in the engineers?
avatar Re: Stream Crossings at High Water
June 16, 2009 09:40PM
Why cross a stream when you can just hike along its length?

avatar Re: Stream Crossings at High Water
June 16, 2009 10:21PM
Quote
y_p_w
Why cross a stream when you can just hike along its length?


Because of the thunderstorm up stream?
avatar Re: Stream Crossings at High Water
June 17, 2009 08:40AM
Quote
eeek
Quote
y_p_w
Why cross a stream when you can just hike along its length?

Because of the thunderstorm up stream?

There is fair warning......

http://www.nps.gov/zion/planyourvisit/zion-narrows.htm

Quote

When To Hike The Narrows
Entering the Narrows is safest when the Virgin River is low, clear, and relatively warm. Conditions change from day to day, and are impossible to predict. Check at the Zion Canyon Visitor Center for the latest weather forecast and possible advisories. Flash floods can occur at any time, but are more common in mid-summer and early fall. From November through May, trips through the Narrows usually require wet or dry suits and special cold-weather preparation.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/17/2009 08:42AM by y_p_w.
Re: Stream Crossings at High Water
June 16, 2009 09:56PM
For crossing no deeper than a bit above the knee I've been using Wiggy's Light Weight Waders at $60 a pair down on this page:

http://wiggys.com/category.cfm?category=3

Total weight including stuff bag that can be wadded up to softball size is 12 ounces. Intended for just occasional duty and not like trout fishing waders as much abrasive stream bottom use would be sure to cause leaks. And they need to be regularly checked for leaks and patched.

Since I carry a big tripod everywhere, I often cross streams with that fully open moving one step at a time carefully. I've crossed a lot of cold streams and there is often a section next to the bank on the far side that is flowing faster and deeper than it visually seemed.

Anything above crotch deep can get quite precarious as there is a tendency to float up on the braced foot after picking up one's other foot. In such conditions a large stick braced against the bottom can help keep the braced foot down.

Ice cold bare feet sliding around and between slimy river stones can be rather painful at every step and contribute to going even slower and falling over.

I always carry construction grade duct tape for all manner of uses and when wearing my gortex boots for stream crossings would duct tape the top of the boots to my skin all the way around. That way the water did not get inside so quickly and when it finally did was not as seriously cold. Good way remove some hair on your shins too haha.

If a crossing is dangerous or deep enough that falling might occur, consider finding a narrow spot in a stream that is often an uncrossable torrent and tossing one's sleeping bags across to the opposite side. Not only is a wet bag useless for sleeping, difficult to dry out except in desert conditions, but most can soak up a lot of water and be a heavy bear to have to carry around.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 06/16/2009 10:04PM by DavidSenesac.
avatar Re: Stream Crossings at High Water
June 16, 2009 09:59PM
Holy crap. Army boots.. wow...

Most PCTers just use Crocs.
avatar Re: Stream Crossings at High Water
June 16, 2009 10:05PM
Quote
bill-e-g
Holy crap. Army boots.. wow...

Most PCTers just use Crocs.

You need to scroll down and find the "wading over booties". He is not referring to the Army boots.


(aside) Where did I leave that tranquilizer dart?



The cure for a fallacious argument is a better argument, not the suppression of ideas.
-- Carl Sagan
avatar Re: Stream Crossings at High Water
June 16, 2009 10:08PM
Oopsie... I'm sorry... THOSE are cool! Sorry!
I ALMOST have brought my neoprene booties for flippas a couple times cause me no likey cold water.

Ok... fire the dart!
avatar Re: Stream Crossings at High Water
June 16, 2009 10:20PM
I have only one word for crossing streams: LOGS

Have I not mentioned recently how much I hate the cold of any sort (numbah one being COLD WATER!!)

Bee Cowboy
avatar Re: Stream Crossings at High Water
June 16, 2009 10:23PM
Quote
Bee
I have only one word for crossing streams: LOGS

I have a word too: insanity!

avatar Re: Stream Crossings at High Water
June 16, 2009 10:26PM
It looks much more dangerous than it was.

And do you have permission to use my foto?
avatar Re: Stream Crossings at High Water
June 16, 2009 10:37PM
Quote
bill-e-g
It looks much more dangerous than it was.
Was there a giant safety net and someone with a cup of hot chocolate waiting down stream?
Surviving something does not make it safe. I think it looks AT LEAST as dangerous as it must have been.



The cure for a fallacious argument is a better argument, not the suppression of ideas.
-- Carl Sagan
avatar Re: Stream Crossings at High Water
June 16, 2009 10:43PM
Quote
Frank Furter
Quote
bill-e-g
It looks much more dangerous than it was.
Was there a giant safety net and someone with a cup of hot chocolate waiting down stream?
Surviving something does not make it safe. I think it looks AT LEAST as dangerous as it must have been.

That was an super sarcastic comment.

Belive me! I was a praying he didn't fall in! I woulda probably crapped my pants trying to fetch him out.
But... in his words "I woulda just floated down over there and then crawled out" (or something to that effect)
avatar Re: Stream Crossings at High Water
June 16, 2009 10:48PM
Quote
bill-e-g
Quote
Frank Furter
Quote
bill-e-g
It looks much more dangerous than it was.
Was there a giant safety net and someone with a cup of hot chocolate waiting down stream?
Surviving something does not make it safe. I think it looks AT LEAST as dangerous as it must have been.

That was an super sarcastic comment.

Belive me! I was a praying he didn't fall in! I woulda probably crapped my pants trying to fetch him out.
But... in his words "I woulda just floated down over there and then crawled out" (or something to that effect)

I assume it was preceeded by some comment like, "Hey, hold my beer and watch this"



The cure for a fallacious argument is a better argument, not the suppression of ideas.
-- Carl Sagan
avatar Re: Stream Crossings at High Water
June 16, 2009 10:52PM
No, just "Hey, watch this!" No beer on that trip. We did cross the creek at that exact same spot on the way up to Devil's Dance Floor some months later where we did enjoy a Boddington's Pub Ale.



Old Dude
avatar Re: Stream Crossings at High Water
June 16, 2009 11:18PM
Quote
mrcondron
No beer on that trip.

No wonder your group is so small. smileys with beer
avatar Re: Stream Crossings at High Water
June 16, 2009 11:24PM
Billy and I stopped at Rancheria for lunch one very hot day and had a Guiness or maybe a Fosters Bitter. We then proceeded up the switchbacks to Tiltill were we did something. That trip up the switchbacks swore me off beer mid-hike for a very long time. I was miserable.



Old Dude
avatar Re: Stream Crossings at High Water
June 16, 2009 11:27PM
Quote
mrcondron
Billy and I stopped at Rancheria for lunch one very hot day and had a Guiness or maybe a Fosters Bitter. We then proceeded up the switchbacks to Tiltill were we did something. That trip up the switchbacks swore me off beer mid-hike for a very long time. I was miserable.

I've had to swear off food mid-hike. Too much blood diverted to digestion just kills me.
avatar Re: Stream Crossings at High Water
June 16, 2009 11:17PM
Quote
Frank Furter
I assume it was preceeded by some comment like, "Hey, hold my beer and watch this"

It wasn't Texas.
avatar Re: Stream Crossings at High Water
June 16, 2009 11:17PM
Quote
Frank Furter
Was there a giant safety net and someone with a cup of hot chocolate waiting down stream?

Yes, right at the bottom of Cascade Fall on 140.
avatar Re: Stream Crossings at High Water
June 16, 2009 10:30PM
HEY!! There's one of the guys who taught me the art of the log shimmy crossing!! A great pic -- full of drama..now THATS what I call a good adrenaline rush!! (you can keep the half dome cable log jam)

Bee Cowboy
avatar Re: Stream Crossings at High Water
June 16, 2009 10:34PM
What a cool, brave, artful guy. He must be crazy though, where is his emergency flotation device?



Old Dude
avatar Re: Stream Crossings at High Water
June 16, 2009 10:37PM
Nice hat.
avatar Re: Stream Crossings at High Water
June 16, 2009 11:11PM
Quote
mrcondron
What a cool, brave, artful guy. He must be crazy though,



Quote

where is his emergency flotation device?



or

avatar Re: Stream Crossings at High Water
June 17, 2009 10:34AM
Quote
Bee
(you can keep the half dome cable log jam)
Bee Cowboy



But there is so much mental deadwood there.
avatar Re: Stream Crossings at High Water
June 16, 2009 10:22PM
I know "they" sell "dry" socks. Anyone out there try those ever?
avatar Re: Stream Crossings at High Water
June 16, 2009 11:04PM
Yup.
But it was a Boddingtons Pub Ale.



I think Mike is trying to figure out why his laces always come undone.
avatar Re: Stream Crossings at High Water
June 16, 2009 11:14PM
Mike ties his shoes weird!
avatar Re: Stream Crossings at High Water
June 16, 2009 11:19PM
I doubt he woulda made it that far.
(he's a pretty big guy)
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