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Upper Pines bear

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avatar Upper Pines bear
July 20, 2009 11:01AM
A neighbor's bear box apparently wouldn't latch properly. It seemed to close well.

Several of us tried to scare it off, but it wouldn't budge once it had food. However - the ranger seemed to have no problem scaring it off. Apparently this bear recognized the voice and knew not to mess with her.

avatar Re: Upper Pines bear
July 20, 2009 04:37PM
Did you try throwing rocks at it?
avatar Re: Upper Pines bear
July 20, 2009 04:44PM
Know anything about the collar? radio type? was there an ear tag?



The cure for a fallacious argument is a better argument, not the suppression of ideas.
-- Carl Sagan
avatar Re: Upper Pines bear
July 20, 2009 04:49PM
Looks like a radio collar.
avatar Re: Upper Pines bear
July 21, 2009 09:14AM
Quote
eeek
Did you try throwing rocks at it?

I did the pots and pans rattling. One neighbor tried throwing a rock next to it. One person (the first attempt) tried to intimidate the bear, but got bluff charged. Nobody tried getting near it after that. The ranger just got out of her car and yelled, "GET OUT OF HERE!" and it just took off.

The people in the site were actually fast asleep until they were woken up by the ranger.

It clearly had a collar, radio transmitter, and ear tag.
avatar Re: Upper Pines bear
July 21, 2009 10:50AM
Quote
y_p_w
One person (the first attempt) tried to intimidate the bear, but got bluff charged. Nobody tried getting near it after that.

You have to stand your ground when they charge. Otherwise the bear wins.
Re: Upper Pines bear
July 21, 2009 12:33PM
Throwing rocks at bears? Bluff charge...

I remember well arriving at a campsite in Wawona in 1971 to see a bear pawing through an ice chest while surrounded by a half circle of park visitors. When I stepped out of the vehicle - in uniform - the bear took one look at me and took off. Must be the uniform or the vehicle.

On false charges, the first was in 1969 with a sow black bear with 3 cubs who charged about 5 feet. The second was in 1971 with a sow black bear with 2 cubs who was fond of breaking into the occupied Badger Pass lodge. She covered half the distance between us - faster than I could react. I now live on the east side of Yellowstone, and a local resident surprised a sow grizzly with 3 yearling cubs while hiking 2 days ago. The sow griz broke 3 of the hiker's ribs, possibly a leg and lacerated his face badly before he shot her 3 times with a .41 Magnum handgun. The bear died, the hiker was airlifted to Billings, MT and the cubs will hopefully survive. I have never forgotten the raw, naked fear of a bluff charge, and I prefer to avoid both species of bruin.

PS In the early 70's, some camp tenders favored the wrist rocket sling shot and small stones. The bear did not care much for those devices.
avatar Re: Upper Pines bear
July 22, 2009 05:10AM
Quote
Dearborn
. I now live on the east side of Yellowstone, and a local resident surprised a sow grizzly with 3 yearling cubs while hiking 2 days ago. The sow griz broke 3 of the hiker's ribs, possibly a leg and lacerated his face badly before he shot her 3 times with a .41 Magnum handgun. The bear died, the hiker was airlifted to Billings, MT and the cubs will hopefully survive. .

Possibly the story mentioned above

http://www.localnews8.com/Global/story.asp?S=10760170&nav=menu554_2_2
Man injured in grizzly encounter
Associated Press - July 21, 2009 7:15 AM ET

CODY, Wyo. (AP) - A Clark man was hospitalized with extensive injuries to his face following a Sunday afternoon encounter with a sow grizzly bear in Park County....



The cure for a fallacious argument is a better argument, not the suppression of ideas.
-- Carl Sagan
avatar Re: Upper Pines bear
August 04, 2009 09:27PM
Quote
Frank Furter

http://www.localnews8.com/Global/story.asp?S=10760170&nav=menu554_2_2
Man injured in grizzly encounter
Associated Press - July 21, 2009 7:15 AM ET

CODY, Wyo. (AP) - A Clark man was hospitalized with extensive injuries to his face following a Sunday afternoon encounter with a sow grizzly bear in Park County....


Opinion and different slant on the affair published recently:
http://www.casperstartribune.net/articles/2009/08/03/editorial/letters/b661c2f50c1ba48f87257606002113f5.txt



The cure for a fallacious argument is a better argument, not the suppression of ideas.
-- Carl Sagan
Re: Upper Pines bear
July 21, 2009 09:32AM
The rangers try to teach the bears to fear humans, but it sounds like the bears are only trained to fear rangers.
avatar Re: Upper Pines bear
July 21, 2009 09:53AM
Quote
RobE
The rangers try to teach the bears to fear humans, but it sounds like the bears are only trained to fear rangers.


Presumably the bear didn't feel that the campers were exercising the proper degree of authority.
[Reproachful Ranger overtrumps Brusque Bear trumping Cowering Campers]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/21/2009 10:11AM by szalkowski.
avatar Re: Upper Pines bear
July 21, 2009 10:01AM
use an air horn
avatar Re: Upper Pines bear
July 21, 2009 10:18AM
Quote
forrestranger
use an air horn


I can visualize a scene reminiscent of the book "Lake Wobegon Days:"
Upon hearing the horn, the entire campground population trundles en masse down to the river to watch the raft race.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/21/2009 10:21AM by szalkowski.
avatar Re: Upper Pines bear
July 21, 2009 07:05PM
Quote
forrestranger
use an air horn

A whistle works well and is easier to carry.
avatar Re: Upper Pines bear
July 21, 2009 10:35AM
Speaking of bear boxes in Upper Pines (and the newer, larger style pictured above), has anyone seen any
new bear boxes this year in North Pines or Lower Pines by any chance?
I'm sure the answer is "no", but I only ask because they installed new bear boxes in Curry Village a year
or two ago, and when I arrived to camp at North Pines last year, there were new fire rings and picnic tables
in most of the sites. What those sites really need are new bear boxes...eye rolling smiley
avatar Re: Upper Pines bear
July 28, 2009 11:56AM
Quote
PineCone
Speaking of bear boxes in Upper Pines (and the newer, larger style pictured above), has anyone seen any
new bear boxes this year in North Pines or Lower Pines by any chance?
I'm sure the answer is "no", but I only ask because they installed new bear boxes in Curry Village a year
or two ago, and when I arrived to camp at North Pines last year, there were new fire rings and picnic tables
in most of the sites. What those sites really need are new bear boxes...eye rolling smiley

I would say that these new bear boxes also have a place to lock with a padlock or some sort of clips. A neighbor had a carabiner while we used a padlock. Even if the standard locking mechanism fails, the additional lock should be able to keep a bear out of a bear box. I think the older boxes with the bolt can also be padlocked. I would think that they should recommend that these things at least be clipped/padlocked with something if possible.

I remember staying in a campground in Sequoia National Forest a couple of years ago. They were really old and it appeared that the locking mechanism had been modified. I found that they had padlock rings (clearly added on with rivets) with a heavy-duty cotter pin inserted; I used a cheap non-climbing carabiner instead. Whatever was originally there was replaced with a heavy-duty slide-bolt latch. The slide bolt didn't seem all that secure, but the carabiner was probably something a bear wasn't going to able to defeat.
avatar Re: Upper Pines bear
July 29, 2009 03:35PM
I've used the newer, larger bear boxes in Upper Pines, and they have a built in hasp (or whatever it's called) on each door to allow you to put a lock thru. I always use a Master key lock. The older (smaller) style bear boxes in the remainder of Upper Pines, and all of North and Lower Pines are also lockable.
I've never seen a bear box in Yosemite Valley campgrounds with no allowance to lock them, but I guess they can get loused up or broken if abused.
I seem to recall hearing that the newer, larger bear boxes in Upper Pines were provided not by the NPS, but by one of the nonprofit funds (The Yosemite Fund??). What happened to them installing them in the remainder of Upper Pines I do not know, and the other campgrounds as well. Maybe the budget ran out for the project.
I wish instead of new picnic tables and fire rings in North Pines last year (neither of which were greatly needed from my personal observations), they'd have used the money for the newer style, larger bear boxes instead. Idea
If you stay for a week or more, or have a larger number of people in a site, those old bear boxes are mighty scrawny, and don't hold as much...
avatar Re: Upper Pines bear
July 29, 2009 05:21PM
Quote
PineCone
I've used the newer, larger bear boxes in Upper Pines, and they have a built in hasp (or whatever it's called) on each door to allow you to put a lock thru. I always use a Master key lock. The older (smaller) style bear boxes in the remainder of Upper Pines, and all of North and Lower Pines are also lockable.
I've never seen a bear box in Yosemite Valley campgrounds with no allowance to lock them, but I guess they can get loused up or broken if abused.
I seem to recall hearing that the newer, larger bear boxes in Upper Pines were provided not by the NPS, but by one of the nonprofit funds (The Yosemite Fund??). What happened to them installing them in the remainder of Upper Pines I do not know, and the other campgrounds as well. Maybe the budget ran out for the project.

Hasp. I've heard the word but didn't quite know what it meant. And the dictionary definition does describe a hinged metal flap for securing a padlock.

I do remember the ones with the external bolt do have an allowance for locking. The NPS has a problem with the public ones at trailheads being locked (with a clearly marked prohibition against doing as such). Once I brought some stuff from the Valley backpackers parking lot to the backpackers campground. On my return trip I noticed that a small lock (about the size for suitcases) was gone. I'm thinking either the owner removed it or the NPS brought out the bolt cutters. I figure it would be suspicious of anyone to go around a campsite with bolt cutters, especially since there usually isn't anything except camping food/supplies.

I've also seen the same style of bear box (large ones with a captive key on the door) at Fallen Leaf Campground near Lake Tahoe. The ones I remember didn't have any fixtures for a padlock. I think it can be ordered with different options.

Quote

I wish instead of new picnic tables and fire rings in North Pines last year (neither of which were greatly needed from my personal observations), they'd have used the money for the newer style, larger bear boxes instead. Idea
If you stay for a week or more, or have a larger number of people in a site, those old bear boxes are mighty scrawny, and don't hold as much...

I'm still wondering why there are only a few select areas where one can't store food out of sight in a car. The most prominent of those areas being Yosemite, SEKI, and Tahoe. I remember camping where there were bears and being told just to store things in my car. Sometimes it was out of sight, but at other times it was OK to leave a cooler in plain sight. The only rule at Mt Rainier was that nothing could be left outside just in case it attracted small wildlife like squirrels. They weren't even worried about bears. At Yosemite they're sort of resigned to the fact that bears will come into the campgrounds, so it's OK to keep the stove open and pots/dishes out, but just make sure there's no available food out, little smell in the vehicle, and everything else in the bear box.

In many ways it seems to be about the local population of bears and other assorted wildlife.
avatar Re: Upper Pines bear
July 29, 2009 05:54PM
I thought it was not acceptable to put padlocks on bear boxes. Is that rule for communal boxes only like at trailhead parking lots? I know rangers have routinely cut them off at such locations.

Jim
avatar Re: Upper Pines bear
July 29, 2009 06:12PM
Quote
tomdisco
I thought it was not acceptable to put padlocks on bear boxes. Is that rule for communal boxes only like at trailhead parking lots? I know rangers have routinely cut them off at such locations.

You can put on a lock at your campsite. Locks on trailhead boxes are not acceptable.
avatar Re: Upper Pines bear
July 29, 2009 09:03PM
Yep, I've been locking the bear boxes in my campsites at Yosemite & SEKI for the better part of 20 years now, you're
allowed to 'do as you please' in your own campsite. Trailheads it's verboten, as it also is for the bear boxes in the
center of the Curry apple orchard parking lot. However, when they still had the bear boxes stacked along the end
of the Curry parking lot (the bear boxes nearest to the tent cabins), it was OK to lock those. Once they put in the
new bear boxes for each individual tent cabin/cabin at Curry, they removed those stacked boxed down by the parking
lot, which I though was not the brightest idea. They were fine there, so why not leave them? A lazy person with a
large, heavy cooler with a cabin way up in the corner might be unwilling to haul in all the way up there, but might
store it in one of the parking lot bear boxes (if they'd left them there, that is). Now, said lazy person has to be trusted
to schlep their cooler up to their cabin, or perhaps say "naahhh, I'll just leave it in the car, and cover it with a blanket"!...Bear Head
avatar Re: Upper Pines bear
July 29, 2009 09:14PM
Quote
PineCone
"naahhh, I'll just leave it in the car, and cover it with a blanket"!...Bear Head

Which is good for adding vents to a car:

avatar Re: Upper Pines bear
July 29, 2009 10:01PM
Quote
eeek
Quote
PineCone
"naahhh, I'll just leave it in the car, and cover it with a blanket"!...Bear Head

Which is good for adding vents to a car:


I still haven't quite figured out why Yosemite bears are quite so good at peeling open car doors. Or SEKI bears. Or the occasional bear in Tahoe. There seem to be pockets (with many areas where this "skill" hasn't been acquired) in the Sierra where bears have learned to peel open car doors by the frame. This doesn't seem to be the case in the Cascades. In some areas I was told that active hunting coupled with limited NPS-controlled areas meant the local bears avoided humans at all costs and I guess none ever experimented with these strange human devices known as cars.

It's not as if the bears share tips on the internet. There are some unique skills that some bears have in very limited areas. There's that group of bears in the Rae Lakes area that learned how to break into the older BearVault by jumping up and down on it. Then there's one particular bear in upstate New York that can use its teeth to open up BearVaults.

That being said, I've occasionally left something in my pack and forgot to take it out of the trunk. However - I think my best bet in the future would be to simply stuff it all in my bear box if there's room. I'd note that I was able to fit a 20 gallon cooler, several plastic storage boxes, and a couple of packs. There was actually room left over.
avatar Re: Upper Pines bear
July 29, 2009 11:38PM
Quote
y_p_w
This doesn't seem to be the case in the Cascades.

It doesn't seem to be the case in Yellowstone either. They certainly don't have all the warning about keeping food in your car that Yosemite has.
avatar Re: Upper Pines bear
July 30, 2009 06:31AM
It seems to me the regulations in Yosemite which are beyond those even at Seki or any other park I have visited based on inherently flawed reasoning. In some ways, it is like the view that if there is just more punishment for a crime, crime will disappear. I understand that there are probably more car violations by bears in Yosemite and understand the logic that somehow less visible or detectible food will discourage bears, but I think the Yosemite regulations are misguided and that other factors may be at play in car break-ins by bears. If there is a determination to eliminate the "visible" and "odorous" food, perhaps all camping, vending, and commercial food preparation should be eliminated in the Valley. I suspect the cooking at Curry and Awahnee and Yosemite Lodge attracts bears who, incidentally then explore cars for food sources. In that sense, the commercial activities and camping "lure" bears into the valley and only when driven mad by the bacon and garlic shrimp and pepperoni pizzas do the bears tear into a car.

I think it is an fallacy that "food" visible or detected in a car is the main reason for breakins of a specific car. Every car that I have owned that carried kids has residual food in cracks and crevices. I don't think it is possible to eliminate food odors from any car that has had a food spill or even in which food has been consumed. There is an anecdotal story of a car breakin attributed to a mint in the glove box. Just seems highly unlikely that this sort of cause and effect exists. It is more likely that there is a degree of opportunistic, experimental desperation to bear break-ins that in retrospect, is attributed to some trivial food item in the vehicle.

One issue concerns the size of many family coolers and the size of the storage boxes. It seems wrong to "encourage" people to visit national parks essentially without any preparation or equipment requirements whatsoever yet upon arrival, have specific requirements for storage of coolers in small bear boxes. Sure, the info is on the website, but I doubt that every new visitor knows to check the website. Many large coolers just don't fit in the storage boxes. In addition, many minivans are used which do not have trunks for true storage. At the very least, there should be information on the roads prior to the park that large coolers will be a problem in the Valley or a secure location in the Valley to store the giant megacoolers.

I remain baffled how the food preparation areas of the Valley, outdoor vending machines, outdoor eating areas (like the pizza deck at Curry) and the High Sierra Camps can have food exposed on a regular basis and still seem to be exempt from tight bear regulations. Some High Sierra Camps have outdoor grills that are left out overnight that are just dripping with meat residue and do not get disturbed by bears. The screens on High Sierra Camps are no more durable than the usual tent structures, yet food can be left in screened areas of HSCs but food cannot be kept in tents in campgrounds adjacent to the HSCs.



The cure for a fallacious argument is a better argument, not the suppression of ideas.
-- Carl Sagan
avatar Re: Upper Pines bear
July 30, 2009 08:26AM
Frank Furter
Quote
One issue concerns the size of many family coolers and the size of the storage boxes

Yes, exactly! I have not been to Lodgepole in Sequoia for many years now, but as far back as 2000 there were already jumbo-sized bear boxes in Azela campground in Kings Canyon, and I understand they're also in all the campgrounds down at the bottom of Kings Canyon as well. Why does Yosemite lag so woefully behind its smaller neighbor to the south, and as you said, "seems wrong to "encourage" people to visit national parks essentially without any preparation or equipment requirements".
Campgrounds like Lodgepole also have stacks of overflow bear boxes all over the campground (out near the roads) for people to use for this exact purpose! Hello, Yosemite?! Makes sense, why not make it easy for people!
There is no such allowance in Yosemite, where the Lilliputian bear boxes in Lower & North Pines are woefully antiquated. I have read articles (and seen first hand, particularly in Upper Pines) where the trend in camping is towards larger groups in campsites of family and/or friends. Makes sense to try and cater to this demographic who are using your facilities, no?
Before they tore down all the restrooms in Upper & Lower River, there was an older bear-warning sign in one of the restrooms that pre-dated the use of bear storage lockers in the campsites. It simply advised people to store their coolers in their trunks. So, as has been pointed out, what changed from the 'old days' to the present, have bears evolved to be so much more clever than those of 30 or 40 years ago?! confused smiley
avatar Re: Upper Pines bear
July 30, 2009 09:12AM
Quote
Frank Furter
It seems to me the regulations in Yosemite which are beyond those even at Seki or any other park I have visited based on inherently flawed reasoning.

I remember bear boxes at SEKI in day use areas with signs saying that food storage in the trunk wasn't acceptable even during the day. This was at Crystal Cave and Redwood Mountain Grove. I do remember waiting for my cabin to be ready at the Grant Village parking lot and said something to a ranger. It was still afternoon and a ranger said it wasn't a problem in broad daylight with people walking everywhere.

Quote
Frank Furter
I think it is an fallacy that "food" visible or detected in a car is the main reason for breakins of a specific car. Every car that I have owned that carried kids has residual food in cracks and crevices. I don't think it is possible to eliminate food odors from any car that has had a food spill or even in which food has been consumed. There is an anecdotal story of a car breakin attributed to a mint in the glove box. Just seems highly unlikely that this sort of cause and effect exists. It is more likely that there is a degree of opportunistic, experimental desperation to bear break-ins that in retrospect, is attributed to some trivial food item in the vehicle.

Certainly having a large quantity of food increases the "Jackpot!" factor if a bear comes across it. If I left 20 lbs of smoked ribs covered in BBQ sauce in my trunk, that would probably be a good indication for a bear's keen sense of smell. However - it's probably more about the reward factor. It may be random whether or not a bear decides to break into a car, but the NPS has the thinking that if the bear manages to score food, it has positive reinforcement that breaking into cars yields food and will rely on that. There was "Camaro Bear" which found a good stash in a Camaro and then decided to break into maybe 20 more over the course of that summer.

I remember talking to a store employee at Stony Creek in Sequoia NF. Her thinking was that bears weren't stupid. Even they might realize that every car will have food smells, but will gauge how much is enough to spend the energy for a car break in. I had concerns that soda may have been spilled on my seats, and she said the best you can do is just blot it up and don't stress out too much.

Quote
Frank Furter
One issue concerns the size of many family coolers and the size of the storage boxes. It seems wrong to "encourage" people to visit national parks essentially without any preparation or equipment requirements whatsoever yet upon arrival, have specific requirements for storage of coolers in small bear boxes. Sure, the info is on the website, but I doubt that every new visitor knows to check the website. Many large coolers just don't fit in the storage boxes. In addition, many minivans are used which do not have trunks for true storage. At the very least, there should be information on the roads prior to the park that large coolers will be a problem in the Valley or a secure location in the Valley to store the giant megacoolers.

Do they really break into minivans or other taller vehicles? I thought the technique was usually to peel open the door frame. Can a bear get high enough?

Quote
Frank Furter
I remain baffled how the food preparation areas of the Valley, outdoor vending machines, outdoor eating areas (like the pizza deck at Curry) and the High Sierra Camps can have food exposed on a regular basis and still seem to be exempt from tight bear regulations. Some High Sierra Camps have outdoor grills that are left out overnight that are just dripping with meat residue and do not get disturbed by bears. The screens on High Sierra Camps are no more durable than the usual tent structures, yet food can be left in screened areas of HSCs but food cannot be kept in tents in campgrounds adjacent to the HSCs.

I can leave my stove and pots out, which I'm sure smell like food to a bear. I think it's well known that bears investigate the smells, but the main concern is whether or not they're rewarded for it with any actual food.
avatar Re: Upper Pines bear
July 30, 2009 12:12PM
I think the main point I am trying to make is that the car or car owner is not solely to blame for every car and bear problem in the Valley. I think the situation is more complex than that-- there is a global problem in the Valley with foods, food odors and opportunities. I do not believe that if everyone drove new vehicles to the valley and complied with every car related regulation that the car breakin problem would disappear. I wonder how often the service vehicles in the park are violated?

I think bears will continue to explore vehicles for food, regardless of the actual presence of food or food related items detectable from the exterior of the vehicle. Cars are parked in untrafficed areas, tend to be of a size to allow bears to explore, and, of course, by being in the vicinity of food locations (commercial and camping) can be generally associated with food opportunities. Somewhere (perhaps this discussion forum) I recall learning that the backcountry signs are made from steel because the wooden signs were destroyed by bears yearly. What is the food value of a wooden sign? Probably just attracted to the new smell of paint and the human odors associated.



The cure for a fallacious argument is a better argument, not the suppression of ideas.
-- Carl Sagan
avatar Re: Upper Pines bear
July 30, 2009 12:42PM
Quote
Frank Furter
I think the main point I am trying to make is that the car or car owner is not solely to blame for every car and bear problem in the Valley. I think the situation is more complex than that-- there is a global problem in the Valley with foods, food odors and opportunities. I do not believe that if everyone drove new vehicles to the valley and complied with every car related regulation that the car breakin problem would disappear. I wonder how often the service vehicles in the park are violated?

I think bears will continue to explore vehicles for food, regardless of the actual presence of food or food related items detectable from the exterior of the vehicle. Cars are parked in untrafficed areas, tend to be of a size to allow bears to explore, and, of course, by being in the vicinity of food locations (commercial and camping) can be generally associated with food opportunities. Somewhere (perhaps this discussion forum) I recall learning that the backcountry signs are made from steel because the wooden signs were destroyed by bears yearly. What is the food value of a wooden sign? Probably just attracted to the new smell of paint and the human odors associated.

I always found the requirement that car child seats must be removed to be odd. Certainly they would absorb baby drool, crumbs, burped milk, etc, but then so does the seat area under the child seat. Perhaps it is a matter of bears seeing those things as possible targets.

Certainly delivery vehicles are designed differently. I was thinking that the Frito-Lay delivery truck must smell like something wonderful to a bear. However - they're going to have a tough time trying to break down that door.

Then there is the inconsistency of sleeping in clothes where one has been cooking or eating. I still couldn't figure out what was to be done with the clothes where one has been cooking in the backcountry. There are clear warnings not to sleep in the same clothes one has been wearing while cooking in the backcountry. Do you lay the clothes out near the bear canister and just let bears sniff them and figure out there's no food to be had despite the odors? I haven't seen any such warnings for front country campers or those in tent cabins. I'm sure that people sleep in the same clothes that they've been cooking in at the Pines or in tent cabins after spilling food at the Curry Village pizza patio. From what I understand, bears tend to avoid human smell even if mixed with something that smells like food. I have yet to find any non-mint toothpaste. The body wash and shampoo dispensers in the showers aren't exactly using unscented toiletries. Every soap dispenser I've used in Yosemite had some sort of standard liquid with a flowery odor.

You're certainly correct that there seems to be little consistency in the requirements compared to what else there is that produces odors.
avatar Re: Upper Pines bear
July 30, 2009 12:48PM
Quote
y_p_w
I always found the requirement that car child seats must be removed to be odd. Certainly they would absorb baby drool, crumbs, burped milk, etc, but then so does the seat area under the child seat. Perhaps it is a matter of bears seeing those things as possible targets.

Yes, bears are very visual. Back in the days before containers I think you could have hung a bag of horse poop from a tree and a bear would be sure to go after it.
avatar Re: Upper Pines bear
July 30, 2009 04:31PM
Additional, only slightly relevant, comments on the Yosemite bear situation:

1. Isn't it about time for the annual stripping of the apple trees near Curry Village to pre-empt the bears feeding on them?

2. an interesting, but old (1997) article from New York Times on the bears in Yosemite:

http://www.nytimes.com/1997/11/30/us/to-bears-in-yosemite-cars-are-like-cookie-jars.html



The cure for a fallacious argument is a better argument, not the suppression of ideas.
-- Carl Sagan
avatar Re: Upper Pines bear
July 21, 2009 12:14PM
I have to say it. No Way the latch wasn't working to the point a bear could open the locker. More likely, since they can be a little tough to open, the camper did not secure the latch. There. I feel better.



Old Dude
avatar Re: Upper Pines bear
July 21, 2009 06:51PM
Quote
mrcondron
I have to say it. No Way the latch wasn't working to the point a bear could open the locker. More likely, since they can be a little tough to open, the camper did not secure the latch. There. I feel better.

It's one of the new larger ones at Upper Pines. They have the captive key. They have a simple latching mechanism like a door entry lock. It's not like the older ones with the bolt and clip (that results in many finger injuries).

The ranger inspected the bear box, and the camper there told me that the ranger said it was scheduled to be repaired. The ranger left it open but covered it in yellow caution tape.
avatar Re: Upper Pines bear
July 21, 2009 07:03PM
And I was feeling so much better.



Old Dude
avatar Re: Upper Pines bear
July 21, 2009 07:17PM
Quote
mrcondron
And I was feeling so much better.

Go back to bed, Mikey!
avatar Re: Upper Pines bear
July 21, 2009 07:19PM
Read yor PMs lady.



Old Dude
Re: Upper Pines bear
July 30, 2009 07:18AM
I went to Yellowstone this past year, and they told us to keep all of the food in the cars. The Ranger stated they don't have "Gangster Bears" like California. That was a weird experience.
avatar Re: Upper Pines bear
August 01, 2009 10:50AM
I noticed on several bear lockers (including mine) in the Pumice Flat campground last week, the upper latch worked but the lower latch hung out like an infected incisor. Seems like whichever company manufactured these boxes, they are defective and a really hungry bear would work at the bottom latch until it could bend the door enough to make the entire box useless. Good ol' Inyo buying boxes that will fail sooner rather than later.
avatar Re: Upper Pines bear
August 01, 2009 11:56AM
That's pretty sad. I suspect several companies might make these (?), and I recall a program I once saw on TV where one manufacturer actually tested their bear boxes using (captive) bears, to 'field test' their effectiveness.
A thought occurred to me just now, with roughly 1/3 of the tent cabins/cabins at Curry being permanently eliminated, I wonder what will become of the new bear boxes that were recently installed adjacent to those tent cabins? confused smiley
Many are the larger size, and it would be nice if they would transplant them over to the campgrounds when the time comes, but I'm not holding my breath the hierarchy at Yosemite will see the wisdom in that.
Sure seems like a good idea to me, as they're already bought and paid for, just a matter of moving them...
avatar Re: Upper Pines bear
August 01, 2009 12:55PM
Quote
PineCone
one manufacturer actually tested their bear boxes using (captive) bears, to 'field test' their effectiveness...
That is fairly common, I think. I don't know if there are well established standards but the Bear Vault information mentioned being tested at the Folsom City Zoo. In West Yellowstone, the Grizzly-Wolf Discovery Center is involved with testing products.

http://www.lwwf.org/Bear-resistant%20products%20testing.htm



The cure for a fallacious argument is a better argument, not the suppression of ideas.
-- Carl Sagan
avatar Re: Upper Pines bear
August 01, 2009 02:38PM
Perhaps the manufacturer of the Pumice Flat bear boxes mentioned above tested them using an angry ground squirrel! smiling bouncing smiley
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