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Re: Ken Burns new Film on PBS, will it describe Yosemite Natives correctly?

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avatar Ken Burns new Film on PBS, will it describe Yosemite Natives correctly?
August 22, 2009 06:50PM
We are anxiously awaiting for Ken Burns new movie. Hoping that mentions our people, the Paiutes, and relates the true history of Yosemite.

Ken Burns and Yosemite Natives.

He had a great full page color ad in Native Peoples with a photo of El Capitan. El Capitan was named after a real Paiute person.

We are hoping he read Bunnell and read things on line that are sourced.
avatar Re: Ken Burns new Film on PBS, will it describe Yosemite Natives correctly?
August 22, 2009 08:19PM
Quote
Yosemite_Indian
El Capitan was named after a real Paiute person.

There does not appear to be universal consensus to the above assertion. The following is copied from the book “Place Names of the High Sierra” by Francis P. Farquhar (1926):

EL CAPITAN [Yosemite]
“The native Indian name is To-to-kon oo-lah, from To-to-kon, the sandhill crane, a chief of the First People.” (C. Hart Merriam, in S.C.B., 1917, X:2, p. 206.)
The Indian name appears in various forms of spelling and accent through Yosemite literature, and is given various interpretations. (Hutchings: In the Heart of the Sierras, 1886, p. 396. Hutchings: Scenes of Wonder and Curiosity in California, 1860, pp. 103-106. Whitney: Yosemite Guide Book, 1870, p. 16. Powers: Tribes of California, in Contributions to North American Ethnology, III, 1877, pp. 363, 366-367. Bertha H. Smith: Yosemite Legends, 1904, pp. 47-54. Merriam: The Dawn of the World, 1910, p. 35.)
“In adopting the Spanish interpretation, ‘El Capitan,’ for Tote-ack-ah-noo-la, we pleased our mission interpreters and conferred upon the majestic cliff a name corresponding to its dignity.” (Bunnell: Discovery of the Yosemite, 1880, p. 211.)



The various interpretations noted above may easily be accessed by links if one goes to the El Capitan entry in the online version of Farquhar’s book:
http://www.yosemite.ca.us/library/place_names_of_the_high_sierra/e.html
Read the Guide to the old Yosemite Cemetery.

Yosemite cemetery - see Indian part

"Lancisco WILSON -Died 1885 -Piute. He was the father of Johnny WILSON.
His Indian name was Tu-tok-a-nu-la, the inch worm that, according to
Indian legend, climbed El Capitan. Lancisco WILSON was one of the old
Yosemite chiefs and was approximately 115 when he died."


In the new guide it says that is was recorded that Lancisco and his father shared the same name. Page 30.

Charlie Dick was also related Lancisco.

Born at "Mono Lake". They had the same ancestor.

Charlie Dick

Birth: 1857 - Mono Lake

Death: 1930 - Coulterville, Mariposa, California, USA


Sorry, but where does it say he was a Miwok?

Around 1900 there were only a couple of hundred of Indians in the area and they were documented, not only by Yosemite NPS, but by the Federal government. Other records show who the "Southern Sierra Miwuks" were. When you put the paperwork together it reveals a lot.



Edited 5 time(s). Last edit at 08/22/2009 11:40PM by Yosemite_Indian.
avatar Re: Ken Burns new Film on PBS, will it describe Yosemite Natives correctly?
August 23, 2009 03:24PM
I guess we'll have to wait and see, no?

I work with Paiutes all the time...they're native to the Truckee Meadows and try to work here if employers let them. No reason to think Paiutes weren't native to the entire Sierra, west and east.
Correct Vince.

As you know Fremont met Winnemucca. Chief Truckee took Fremont to present day Stockton, and then to San Jose. That is why Sarah Winnemucca went to school in San Jose. Paiutes were not afraid to go anywhere. The Paiutes and Washoes went down further in along the western side of the Sierra Nevada. The Miwoks were brought up from the valley floor to work for whites when gold was discovered.

In fact there is proof that Miwoks, once called Wallas, might have come in from somewhere else to work for whites, and that is documented by early "American" settlers, when there was a mass die-off of California Indians around the early 1830s.

Did Oregon Indians come to California

and

Mewuks original name is Wallas



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 08/23/2009 06:16PM by Yosemite_Indian.
avatar Re: Ken Burns new Film on PBS, will it describe Yosemite Natives correctly?
September 27, 2009 09:15PM
I don't know if this is nationally broadcast, but following Ken Burns, this program has been telecast in Montana:

“Before There Were Parks: Yellowstone and Glacier Through Native Eyes,” offers contemporary tribal perspectives on the creation of the two parks.
The documentary’s filmmaker, Charles Dye, has a master’s degree from the film program at Montana State University in Bozeman. Author and poet Scott Momaday narrates the program.
The documentary on Yellowstone and Glacier premieres Sept. 24 at 7 p.m. and repeats several times through early October.

http://www.billingsgazette.com/news/features/magazine/html_6c3b7e6e-9f3c-11de-871c-001cc4c03286.html


http://www.montanapbs.org/BeforeThereWereParks/



The cure for a fallacious argument is a better argument, not the suppression of ideas.
-- Carl Sagan
avatar Re: Ken Burns new Film on PBS, will it describe Yosemite Natives correctly?
August 23, 2009 10:07PM
Quote
Vince
No reason to think Paiutes weren't native to the entire Sierra, west and east.

Right, Vince. Why don't we throw in the Cascades also?

It seems, then, that all of the Paleoamericans
http://www.jqjacobs.net/anthro/paleoamerican_origins.html
were actually Paiutes... but they just didn't know it at the time.

The nonbiased consensus seems to be that they basically were a tribe of the Great Basin and the southern part of what is now California.
Actually the modern day "English" haven't been in the UK longer the Natives been in the Americas, and the other groups in Europe and other places who are supposed to be indigenous to their area haven't been in their countries, states, homelands forever. The Romans took over southern European areas in from the earliest inhabitants and are now the dominant culture. Like the Jews, Like the Arabs in North Africa, like the Malays and how they populated the Islands or the how South East Asians populated early Australia. There was constant movements. Then there is the theory we all came from one woman in Africa called Lucy...now how far do you want to go back szalkowski? How about back to the big bang? smiling smiley Why there was no Yosemite millions of years ago.

We are talking about the area of Yosemite and you want to go back to the time of Paleoamericans? Which there were several different movements and at many different times, not just one. That is why there are different tribes and language groups. That is why Navajos are different than Pueblo Indians. We Paiutes are related to the Pueblo Indians.

Plus evidence still shows that the earliest humans in and around Yosemite were Paiutes, not Miwoks. It was the Miwoks who came later.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 08/24/2009 01:24AM by Yosemite_Indian.
avatar Re: Ken Burns new Film on PBS, will it describe Yosemite Natives correctly?
August 24, 2009 02:09AM
I don't recall anyone (until now) saying we all came from "Lucy."

There is better evidence that colonization of the Americas by humans came from the south up. No other way to describe how S. America had magnificent cultures, building huge pyramids, while N. American infiltrators ran around nekkid and barely knew how to make a duck decoy.

Fuss with Yosemite history all you want.
Vince we Paiutes are related to the Aztecs from the South also.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/24/2009 05:01AM by Yosemite_Indian.
avatar Re: Ken Burns new Film on PBS, will it describe Yosemite Natives correctly?
August 25, 2009 11:24AM
Quote
Vince
Fuss with Yosemite history all you want.

It's actually called propagandizing.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/25/2009 11:41AM by szalkowski.
avatar Re: Ken Burns new Film on PBS, will it describe Yosemite Natives correctly?
August 25, 2009 01:29PM
Re: Ken Burns new Film on PBS, will it describe Yosemite Natives correctly?

Why don't you ask him:

http://www.florentinefilms.com/ has some contact info and address (no email listed)



The cure for a fallacious argument is a better argument, not the suppression of ideas.
-- Carl Sagan
Thanks for the address. One of people contacted him.
It's called setting the record straight and getting some justice for the Paiute people.
Re: Ken Burns new Film on PBS, will it describe Yosemite Natives correctly?
August 26, 2009 08:02AM
Quote
Yosemite_Indian
It's called setting the record straight and getting some justice for the Paiute people.

I am merely curious - other than increased recognition about the presence and role of Paiutes in Yosemite's past, is there anything else you would hope to gain which you'd include under the heading "justice"?
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bpnjensen
Quote
Yosemite_Indian
It's called setting the record straight and getting some justice for the Paiute people.

I am merely curious - other than increased recognition about the presence and role of Paiutes in Yosemite's past, is there anything else you would hope to gain which you'd include under the heading "justice"?

The Park has taken our ancestors from us and labeled them Miwoks. Now imagine if the Park had taken YOUR ancestor and put that they were a different tribe. One that was once an enemy tribe. Hijacking your own ancestors for another group who is going for a casino.
avatar Re: Ken Burns new Film on PBS, will it describe Yosemite Natives correctly?
August 26, 2009 03:17PM
Quote
Yosemite_Indian
Quote
bpnjensen
Quote
Yosemite_Indian
It's called setting the record straight and getting some justice for the Paiute people.

I am merely curious - other than increased recognition about the presence and role of Paiutes in Yosemite's past, is there anything else you would hope to gain which you'd include under the heading "justice"?

The Park has taken our ancestors from us and labeled them Miwoks. Now imagine if the Park had taken YOUR ancestor and put that they were a different tribe. One that was once an enemy tribe. Hijacking your own ancestors for another group who is going for a casino.

Hmmm...I see some of this. Paiutes in the Great Basin haven't had any success with casinos since Nevada has legalized gambling and most of the Great Basin is Nevada. The only casino I know of on the CA side of the basin is in Bishop, there may be others, but I doubt they do much business (except the gas station in Bishop is always crowded). What I can't see is how the Miwoks, who apparently have a claim on Yosemite Valley, are no less entitled to start their own casino as the Paiutes. Are you saying the Paiutes should be able to have a casino near the park as well?
avatar Re: Ken Burns new Film on PBS, will it describe Yosemite Natives correctly?
August 26, 2009 03:18PM
Quote
Vince
the gas station in Bishop is always crowded

Not after dark.
Quote
Vince
Quote
Yosemite_Indian
Quote
bpnjensen
Quote
Yosemite_Indian
It's called setting the record straight and getting some justice for the Paiute people.

I am merely curious - other than increased recognition about the presence and role of Paiutes in Yosemite's past, is there anything else you would hope to gain which you'd include under the heading "justice"?

The Park has taken our ancestors from us and labeled them Miwoks. Now imagine if the Park had taken YOUR ancestor and put that they were a different tribe. One that was once an enemy tribe. Hijacking your own ancestors for another group who is going for a casino.

Hmmm...I see some of this. Paiutes in the Great Basin haven't had any success with casinos since Nevada has legalized gambling and most of the Great Basin is Nevada. The only casino I know of on the CA side of the basin is in Bishop, there may be others, but I doubt they do much business (except the gas station in Bishop is always crowded). What I can't see is how the Miwoks, who apparently have a claim on Yosemite Valley, are no less entitled to start their own casino as the Paiutes. Are you saying the Paiutes should be able to have a casino near the park as well?

We are not Bishop, even though there are Mono Lake Paiutes who now reside in Bishop through marriage. We have a different dialect, but they are our cousins. If that was the case the Southern Miwoks should just join Tuolumne Miwoks. The Mono Lake Paiutes are not going for a casino. Meanwhile the Miwoks are going for a casino after they get recognized, which is coming up, AND used our ancestors as part of their documentation claiming them as Miwoks. We on the other hand are NOT going for a casino, and NOT using Miwoks.

Miwoks can have a casino, we don't care about that, but once again...they changed OUR Paiute ancestors and are using them to get federally recognized and then get their casino, and the Park, which employees them, is helping them.

We don't care if the Miwoks get a casino, but don't use our ancestors, or change our ancestors into Miwoks, and people, to trick the federal government and make them an officially recognized tribe for a casino. ALSO changing California history right under the general public's nose to do so...with out being caught.

Now an example:

If someone took one of your ancestors and used them to fool the government to get something big and not entitled too, what would you do?


We told them to use their own ancestors, but their own ancestors went into the general white population of the area early on, and left their traditions behind...so they used ours to convince the government they were still a functioning tribe carrying on their traditions.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 08/27/2009 06:59PM by Yosemite_Indian.
avatar Re: Ken Burns new Film on PBS, will it describe Yosemite Natives correctly?
August 27, 2009 06:55PM
Maybe you should get DNA tests?
Quote
eeek
Maybe you should get DNA tests?

Good idea eeek.

We still have our elders and all we do is ask them...plus government documents.

That is like you know you are Irish, and the Park is saying, no you are Greek. Yet all your ancestors are Irish for eons, but now the Park and a non-profit group, going to become a new nation as Greeks, is saying your Irish ancestors were Greeks. Yet you know, plus the majority of documentation you have says Irish. But the Park is saying we know more than you and are going with the Greek story and we say YOUR Irish ancestors are Greeks, and that is that.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 08/27/2009 07:07PM by Yosemite_Indian.
Quote
bpnjensen
Quote
Yosemite_Indian
It's called setting the record straight and getting some justice for the Paiute people.

I am merely curious - other than increased recognition about the presence and role of Paiutes in Yosemite's past, is there anything else you would hope to gain which you'd include under the heading "justice"?

Thanks for asking bpnjensen.

Here is what we would like

1. Fix the signs with our PERSONAL ancestors on them to Paiute (right now some signs of OUR OWN ancestors have Miwok on them)

2. Put the biography and story of Chief Tenaya back into the Park. Right now Chief Tenaya's story is gone from any Park information on signs and books.

3. The books and pamphlets should say that Tenaya was the founder of the Paiute colony of Ahwahnee, which is TRUE and documented.

4. Stop giving Southern Sierra Miwoks materials found in grave sites to them. There is no proof that the items found are Miwok. in fact most of those item are Paiute and should be identified as a Paiute and then a Paiute grave site. If you can't tell don't say it was a Miwok site, without proof.

5. Change the YNP educational website which actually falsely teaches children and teachers the wrong history of Yosemite.

6. Change the labels of baskets in the YNP Indian museum. The "Miwok-Paiute" and "Miwok-Chukchansi" is not true. They are Paiute and Chukchansi or Casson.

7. Quit getting advice on Native matters from a non-profit, the Southern Sierra Miwoks, especially if they are giving the Park slanted advice toward their own position. They are not even an official tribe yet.

8. Fix the YNP Cemetery pamphlet.

9. Correctly tell the story of Yosemite. The Miwoks were actually the workers and scouts for James Savage and the Mariposa Battalion, not Chief Tenaya's band.

10. Change the sign of Miwok Cow'chitty (Kau'tcitti) telling the story of who he really was. The Indian scout who helped the Mariposa Battalion capture Chief Tenaya and his sworn enemy...that is even in the book. Today Kau'tcitti is shown like he was a great chief of Yosemite Valley. Too many of us he was a traitor to the original Yosemite Indians.

11. Put the real story of Hetch Hetchy in documentation of YNP. Hetch Hetchy was a Paiute area and they even fought off other groups to retain it. Today that is erased, and many times Paiutes are not even mentioned when discussing the history of Hetch Hetchy. Sometimes they are only included as a secondary group when they were the main group in Hetch Hetchy Valley.

...these are only a few off of the top of my head.

smiling smiley



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 08/27/2009 07:40PM by Yosemite_Indian.
Re: Ken Burns new Film on PBS, will it describe Yosemite Natives correctly?
August 29, 2009 09:29PM
Quote
Yosemite_Indian
Quote
bpnjensen
Quote
Yosemite_Indian
It's called setting the record straight and getting some justice for the Paiute people.

I am merely curious - other than increased recognition about the presence and role of Paiutes in Yosemite's past, is there anything else you would hope to gain which you'd include under the heading "justice"?

Thanks for asking bpnjensen.

Here is what we would like

1. Fix the signs with our PERSONAL ancestors on them to Paiute (right now some signs of OUR OWN ancestors have Miwok on them)

2. Put the biography and story of Chief Tenaya back into the Park. Right now Chief Tenaya's story is gone from any Park information on signs and books.

3. The books and pamphlets should say that Tenaya was the founder of the Paiute colony of Ahwahnee, which is TRUE and documented.

4. Stop giving Southern Sierra Miwoks materials found in grave sites to them. There is no proof that the items found are Miwok. in fact most of those item are Paiute and should be identified as a Paiute and then a Paiute grave site. If you can't tell don't say it was a Miwok site, without proof.

5. Change the YNP educational website which actually falsely teaches children and teachers the wrong history of Yosemite.

6. Change the labels of baskets in the YNP Indian museum. The "Miwok-Paiute" and "Miwok-Chukchansi" is not true. They are Paiute and Chukchansi or Casson.

7. Quit getting advice on Native matters from a non-profit, the Southern Sierra Miwoks, especially if they are giving the Park slanted advice toward their own position. They are not even an official tribe yet.

8. Fix the YNP Cemetery pamphlet.

9. Correctly tell the story of Yosemite. The Miwoks were actually the workers and scouts for James Savage and the Mariposa Battalion, not Chief Tenaya's band.

10. Change the sign of Miwok Cow'chitty (Kau'tcitti) telling the story of who he really was. The Indian scout who helped the Mariposa Battalion capture Chief Tenaya and his sworn enemy...that is even in the book. Today Kau'tcitti is shown like he was a great chief of Yosemite Valley. Too many of us he was a traitor to the original Yosemite Indians.

11. Put the real story of Hetch Hetchy in documentation of YNP. Hetch Hetchy was a Paiute area and they even fought off other groups to retain it. Today that is erased, and many times Paiutes are not even mentioned when discussing the history of Hetch Hetchy. Sometimes they are only included as a secondary group when they were the main group in Hetch Hetchy Valley.

...these are only a few off of the top of my head.

smiling smiley

Well, all of this is fine, but do you think the film can accomplish all of this under the best of circumstances?
Quote
bpnjensen
Quote
Yosemite_Indian
Quote
bpnjensen
Quote
Yosemite_Indian
It's called setting the record straight and getting some justice for the Paiute people.

I am merely curious - other than increased recognition about the presence and role of Paiutes in Yosemite's past, is there anything else you would hope to gain which you'd include under the heading "justice"?

Thanks for asking bpnjensen.

Here is what we would like

1. Fix the signs with our PERSONAL ancestors on them to Paiute (right now some signs of OUR OWN ancestors have Miwok on them)

2. Put the biography and story of Chief Tenaya back into the Park. Right now Chief Tenaya's story is gone from any Park information on signs and books.

3. The books and pamphlets should say that Tenaya was the founder of the Paiute colony of Ahwahnee, which is TRUE and documented.

4. Stop giving Southern Sierra Miwoks materials found in grave sites to them. There is no proof that the items found are Miwok. in fact most of those item are Paiute and should be identified as a Paiute and then a Paiute grave site. If you can't tell don't say it was a Miwok site, without proof.

5. Change the YNP educational website which actually falsely teaches children and teachers the wrong history of Yosemite.

6. Change the labels of baskets in the YNP Indian museum. The "Miwok-Paiute" and "Miwok-Chukchansi" is not true. They are Paiute and Chukchansi or Casson.

7. Quit getting advice on Native matters from a non-profit, the Southern Sierra Miwoks, especially if they are giving the Park slanted advice toward their own position. They are not even an official tribe yet.

8. Fix the YNP Cemetery pamphlet.

9. Correctly tell the story of Yosemite. The Miwoks were actually the workers and scouts for James Savage and the Mariposa Battalion, not Chief Tenaya's band.

10. Change the sign of Miwok Cow'chitty (Kau'tcitti) telling the story of who he really was. The Indian scout who helped the Mariposa Battalion capture Chief Tenaya and his sworn enemy...that is even in the book. Today Kau'tcitti is shown like he was a great chief of Yosemite Valley. Too many of us he was a traitor to the original Yosemite Indians.

11. Put the real story of Hetch Hetchy in documentation of YNP. Hetch Hetchy was a Paiute area and they even fought off other groups to retain it. Today that is erased, and many times Paiutes are not even mentioned when discussing the history of Hetch Hetchy. Sometimes they are only included as a secondary group when they were the main group in Hetch Hetchy Valley.

...these are only a few off of the top of my head.

smiling smiley

Well, all of this is fine, but do you think the film can accomplish all of this under the best of circumstances?

In the film were are looking for a mention, but the points are for the Park in general.
Re: Ken Burns new Film on PBS, will it describe Yosemite Natives correctly?
August 25, 2009 02:34PM
Quote
Vince
I don't recall anyone (until now) saying we all came from "Lucy."

Not Lucy exactly, but a hominid predecessor (a woman, natch) in Africa about 300,000 years ago. The ultra-great-grandma for all of us.
avatar Re: Ken Burns new Film on PBS, will it describe Yosemite Natives correctly?
August 28, 2009 08:02PM
I think Ken Burns does incredible research and you have absolutely nothing to worry about.
avatar Re: Ken Burns new Film on PBS, will it describe Yosemite Natives correctly?
August 29, 2009 11:15PM
I said earlier, you have nothing to worry about.

I spent the last half hr watching the Glacier Point firefall vid, which has nothing to do with Miwuk or Paiute, but it was just plain fun. I'm thinking Yosemite isn't fun anymore for you (it isn't for me either, in ways). But when I go there, I'm not concerned so much for human history as much as I am concerned for conservation of the area itself, which will be around a lot longer than you or I.

Rock fall, anyone?
avatar Re: Ken Burns new Film on PBS, will it describe Yosemite Natives correctly?
September 27, 2009 10:51PM
There is a possibility that our friend Yosemite_Indian will not be a nice person after watching this PBS special.
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