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Re: Among the Redwoods

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avatar Among the Redwoods
October 10, 2009 06:52PM
In the 1990s, redwood country was a war zone, as environmentalists chained themselves to treetops to battle logging companies. Now, there’s a kind of truce, and a new hope that maybe the forests can come back.

http://www.onpointradio.org/2009/10/among-the-redwoods
avatar Re: Among the Redwoods
October 10, 2009 11:55PM
I'm pretty sure they were never destroyed in the first place.

Did you watch the TV show recently? NGEO is showing repeats every day pretty much. It's nice that they hiked all that distance but there was never anything presented that the coast redwoods are disappearing. They WERE logged heavily for a while but anyone who wants to log redwoods nowadays can see that logging them all doesn't do any good for job security. And we'd all kinda like that job security wouldn't we, nowadays?
avatar Re: Among the Redwoods
October 11, 2009 01:11AM
Quote
Vince
I'm pretty sure they were never destroyed in the first place.

Really? Vince, 95% of the redwoods were cut down. That sounds a lot like destruction to me. Results for dumbasses may vary.
avatar Re: Among the Redwoods
October 11, 2009 03:19AM
Been to Avenue of the Giants? Take a trip.
Re: Among the Redwoods
October 13, 2009 09:11AM
Quote
Vince
Been to Avenue of the Giants? Take a trip.

Vince, you know as well as anyone that the Avenue is a TINY FRACTION of all of the redwoods that used to occupy the California coastal areas...and it's a paved road to boot. It's fine if you just want to preserve a living museum of trees to goggle at for auto tourists; but if you want to preserve a viable redwood ecosystem, it's a smidge of what is needed, far too little, far too late.
avatar Re: Among the Redwoods
October 13, 2009 10:09AM
It just occured to me that cutting down a 500-1000 year old redwood is worse than shooting an endangered or protected animal as the process for replacing the trees would take so very much longer.



The cure for a fallacious argument is a better argument, not the suppression of ideas.
-- Carl Sagan
avatar Re: Among the Redwoods
October 13, 2009 10:14AM
If memory serves there are only about 2-3% of the original old growth redwoods left in the state. In my youth there was still a thriving redwood harvesting industry in on the peninsula and in the east bay. In a few short decades we've just about gotten them all. Fortunately the frenzy to get every last old tree has died down. In the 1990s an old redwood tree was worth about $100,000 and it's probably even higher today. Talk about pressure to harvest.

Conventional thinking is that a redwood forest would have a very difficult if not impossible time coming back as the ecosystem is so complex that once a part of it is broken the whole thing collapses.



Old Dude



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/13/2009 10:17AM by mrcondron.
avatar Re: Among the Redwoods
October 13, 2009 10:20AM
Quote
bpnjensen
Quote
Vince
Been to Avenue of the Giants? Take a trip.

Vince, you know as well as anyone that the Avenue is a TINY FRACTION of all of the redwoods that used to occupy the California coastal areas...and it's a paved road to boot. It's fine if you just want to preserve a living museum of trees to goggle at for auto tourists; but if you want to preserve a viable redwood ecosystem, it's a smidge of what is needed, far too little, far too late.



Vince is a vocal proponent of a Ronald Reagan National Redwood Forest... contains one tree.
avatar Re: Among the Redwoods
October 13, 2009 01:33PM
Quote
szalkowski
Vince is a vocal proponent of a Ronald Reagan National Redwood Forest... contains one tree.

Or one statue of a tree?
avatar Re: Among the Redwoods
October 13, 2009 01:34PM
Made from wood chips and epoxy.



Old Dude
Re: Among the Redwoods
October 14, 2009 01:08AM
One action that I have heard very little of is planting new sequoia semperviren, and I can only hope that it is done. In the early 70's, I lived in a home in Turlock with a 30-year old redwood in the back yard. If memory serves me correct, the trunk was about 18" in diameter then.

I know that Galen Clark planted sequoia gigantea in Yosemite Valley, and I would probably do it on the sly if I were able.
avatar Re: Among the Redwoods
October 14, 2009 01:19AM
For what its worth, there are young sequoia trees in Sequoia National Park near the Giant Forest Museum ( and probably throughout the park). They might be in better shape for progeny than the Valley Oaks in the Central Valley of California.



The cure for a fallacious argument is a better argument, not the suppression of ideas.
-- Carl Sagan
Re: Among the Redwoods
October 14, 2009 12:14PM
One of the coolest things about the Redwood Mountain/Canyon loop is hitting the end of the downhill from the Burnt Grove into the canyon and walking through a forest of young sequoias of all sizes.
avatar Re: Among the Redwoods
October 14, 2009 01:28PM
Quote
AlmostThere
One of the coolest things about the Redwood Mountain/Canyon loop is hitting the end of the downhill from the Burnt Grove into the canyon and walking through a forest of young sequoias of all sizes.

Haven't been there in many years. How big are those trees getting?
Re: Among the Redwoods
October 14, 2009 03:34PM
Lots of them are between 10-20 feet tall - still saplings compared to the big ones, but there's a bunch.
avatar Re: Among the Redwoods
October 14, 2009 03:36PM
Quote
AlmostThere
Lots of them are between 10-20 feet tall - still saplings compared to the big ones, but there's a bunch.

They were knee high last time I hiked there.
Re: Among the Redwoods
October 14, 2009 08:06PM
The Atwell Hockett trail near Mineral King passes through a patch of sequoia saplings.
Re: Among the Redwoods
October 15, 2009 01:28AM
I've wanted to plant sequoias in Wyoming as well, but the climate is probably too dry and windy.
avatar Re: Among the Redwoods
October 15, 2009 04:55AM
Quote
Dearborn
I've wanted to plant sequoias in Wyoming as well, but the climate is probably too dry and windy.

Seems unlikely given the zone recommendations:

http://www.doityourself.com/scat/climatezones

http://www.doityourself.com/stry/hrdzon5

zone temp example cities

7a 0 to 5 F (-15.0 to -17.7 C) Oklahoma City, Oklahoma; South Boston, Virginia
7b 5 to 10 F (-12.3 to -14.9 C) Little Rock, Arkansas; Griffin, Georgia
8a 10 to 15 F (-9.5 to -12.2 C) Tifton, Georgia; Dallas, Texas
8b 15 to 20 F (-6.7 to -9.4 C) Austin, Texas; Gainesville, Florida



The cure for a fallacious argument is a better argument, not the suppression of ideas.
-- Carl Sagan
avatar America the Beautiful
October 15, 2009 06:31PM
The following appeared on the Editorial Page of the Los Angeles Times on 16 June, 1985:



America the Beautiful


The national park system is so diverse and dispersed, it is difficult to explain its scope and meaning to Americans and to communicate the need for its constant protection and care. But one little moment from the near past may help.

On a fall day more than 15 years ago, Lady Bird Johnson flew from sea to shining sea as part of her personal campaign to preserve and enhance the beauty of America. She began the day with a walk along the Atlantic beaches of Florida, the morning sun glistening off the facets of tiny grains of sand. That evening, as dusk fell, the First Lady went for a private walk along the Pacific shore in Humboldt County on California's rugged North Coast. The next morning, Mrs. Johnson would formally dedicate the Redwood National Park. She was as alone as a President's wife can be. Her Secret Service protectors and a single photographer maintained a respectful distance.

No one could guess her thoughts. But it would be difficult for even a sophisticated and traveled First Lady not to be moved by the experience of flying coast to coast in a single day and spanning, symbolically, the entirety and diversity of the American national park system. These are, quite literally, shrines of our cultural and historical heritage as well as the nation's grandest natural wonders: from the Statue of Liberty to the Golden Gate, from Cape Cod to the Redwoods, from Valley Forge and Vicksburg to the Little Big Horn, from Independence Hall and the very White House where Mrs. Johnson lived to the wilds of the Grand Tetons or the North Cascades.

In the deepening shadows of the redwoods that fall twilight, the distant onlookers began to hear a quiet voice over the lapping noise of the waves. It was indistinct at first, but soon became stronger and recognizable. The First Lady was humming to herself; humming an intensely familiar tune and and possibly saying the words in her mind. . . "Oh beautiful for spacious skies, for amber waves of grain, for purple mountain majesties. . .”

This quiet moment on the Pacific shore nearly two decades ago may sum up as well as any illusion the meaning and restorative force of the national parks, described once by Wallace Stegner as "absolutely American, absolutely democratic, they reflect us at our best."

Indeed, the park system has endured since 1968. It has grown, thanks to Mrs. Johnson's husband and his successors, and it has undergone struggle and change and even political turmoil from within.

Today, the park system is beset with modern challenges that threaten to make it less than the best that future Americans deserve to inherit. In particular, the pressures and pollution of civilization are eroding the boundaries of the vast wilderness parks of the West to the point that they no longer may fulfill Henry David Thoreau's promise, "In wildness is the preservation of the world.”

But today, also, there is fresh hope for the parks. The Conservation Foundation has just published a 407-page book entitled "National Parks for a New Generation." It is an expert and exhaustive study of the problems facing the park system and proposed solutions - modest, achievable solutions. The book is commended to every member of Congress and every citizen as a realistic plan of action for preservation of the parks.

Even more encouraging is the recent pledge of the new National Park Service director, William Penn Mott of California, that when it comes to the parks, there can be no compromise. "We've got to err on the side of preservation," he said. This is the message that those who love the parks, and realize the dangers they face, have been waiting to hear. This is the legacy of Thoreau, of Theodore Roosevelt, of Franklin Roosevelt, of Lady Bird Johnson, waiting to be carried into a new generation. This is the legacy of America the Beautiful.
avatar Re: America the Beautiful
October 15, 2009 06:41PM
What a better use for "stimulus funds" than dealing with the deferred maintainance in the National Parks?
I know there is a movement to eliminate or remove improvements, but, as the population ages, we will not all be able to hike into the backcountry and there is certainly a segment that needs handicapped access unrelated to age. It seems like a good compromise to have some well functioning basic infrastructure.



The cure for a fallacious argument is a better argument, not the suppression of ideas.
-- Carl Sagan
avatar Re: Among the Redwoods
October 16, 2009 03:37AM
Humans are the enemy in this battle between funding for NP upgrades and the other battle for NP upgrades.
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