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Re: Bicycle rule, proposed

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avatar Bicycle rule, proposed
January 03, 2009 01:27PM
FYI,
Current proposed rule published in Federal Register Dec. 18, 2008
may be accessed here:
http://edocket.access.gpo.gov/2008/pdf/E8-29892.pdf

Comment period ends Feb. 17, 2009. Address for comment included in document.





The cure for a fallacious argument is a better argument, not the suppression of ideas.
-- Carl Sagan
avatar Re: Bicycle rule, proposed
January 03, 2009 01:34PM
Only on the Mist Trail and only in January?

avatar Re: Bicycle rule, proposed
January 03, 2009 02:51PM
I find it hard to disassociate my dislike for the Bush adminstration from this rule which was certainly advanced by mountain biking interests and perhaps the President himself. Nevertheless, anything that could encourage less use of gas powered vehicles in parks however indirectly may not be all bad.

"I am mindful not only of preserving executive powers for myself, but for predecessors as well." George Bush





The cure for a fallacious argument is a better argument, not the suppression of ideas.
-- Carl Sagan
Re: Bicycle rule, proposed
January 03, 2009 06:42PM
No wonder they get laws through without anybody having a clue. This document is so full of legal gibberish that it could be doing most anything and nobody would know.

I know. If this folly really is a step in opening up trails to mountain bikes in Yosemite, let's give them the Ledge trail. The rest are ours. OK, OK, the mist trail in January too (only between the lower bridge and Vernal though. And they can have the ice cut on the JMT below Nevada Falls in January as a bonus. That's all though...What? Oh, OK, the El Cap nose route also.





Gary
Yosemite Photo Galleries: http://www.pbase.com/roberthouse/yo
avatar Re: Bicycle rule, proposed
January 04, 2009 07:59AM
eeek & Gary,

You are being too generous. I would limit it to endlessly circling the 3 highway entrance booths in one hour intervals so they don't tie up traffic.

Jim

Re: Bicycle rule, proposed
January 04, 2009 11:10AM
tomdisco wrote:

> eeek & Gary,
>
> You are being too generous. I would limit it to endlessly
> circling the 3 highway entrance booths in one hour intervals so
> they don't tie up traffic.

Seems like most of the mountain bikers are in a race anyway, so going in circles should satisfy them 8^). Not sure why they need to be in Yosemite, since all they seem interested in is getting wherever they're going as quickly as possible while flying over as many bumps as possible.

We have a trail near our area, couple of miles through hilly oak woods, that's a shared trail with horses, mountain bikes, and of course hikers with their dogs. It makes me appreciate why some of the rules we have in Yosemite are necessary.

The horses leave endless piles of road apples for people to dodge, and for some reason I've never figured out, horse manure is "ok" to just leave where it falls on a trail.

The bikes race around blind corners and while they try to watch for people, I've been nearly run into a few times.

The folks walking their dogs like to let them run loose, which is understandable, but this trail is in an area where there is some wildlife...deer, various birds, other small critters, and you never see any of the wildlife because of the dogs.

I like bikes (though maybe not bike racing), horses are fine, and always have had a dog or two, but sometimes things just don't mix well.

We'd better keep an eye on Bush these last days...he may sign through something opening the wilderness up to four-wheelers for off road "fun".

Some of the bikers would probably try the nose route, no doubt...8^)



Post Edited (01-04-09 14:40)



Gary
Yosemite Photo Galleries: http://www.pbase.com/roberthouse/yo
avatar Re: Bicycle rule, proposed
January 03, 2009 08:37PM
>>Oh, OK, the El Cap nose route also.<<

Thats TOO funny!!

When I lived in the Bay Area (birthplace of mountain biking) there were constant battles over the shared use of Mount Tam. It never seemed to work out because of a few jerks who insisted on taking the steeps like Kamaikazes.

B
avatar Re: Bicycle rule, proposed
January 04, 2009 08:25AM

There is an interesting civics lesson here.

Much federal law is created not by passage of laws in Congress, but by the administrative arm of government via the Executive Branch. Various congressional bills must be interpreted and reconsiled with existing law and various areas are actually regulated by rules. The rulemaking process involves an interest group request or presidential instruction to the appropiate Department (Interior, Agriculture, Health, etc) to create a rule consistent with other federal regulation. There is a proposed rule published in the Federal Register, a comment period and then a final rule with clear wording consistent with other federal rules and modification needed to the Code of Federal Regulations. There is some opportunity for modification during the comment period, I believe. However, as the "deck is stacked" so to speak against anyone not in line with the Executive Office and various Cabinet Departments, I have rarely seen much modification.

I invite any Civics teachers or lawyers to correct or expand this portrait.





The cure for a fallacious argument is a better argument, not the suppression of ideas.
-- Carl Sagan
avatar Re: Bicycle rule, proposed
January 04, 2009 11:27PM
I ride with a couple of bike clubs both on and off road, and I posed the question of sharing the trails at Yosemite with a couple of the members (mind you, I proposed them with a HUGE slant AGAINST the use of bikes on the trail). The response was almost hostile in the accusation that we hikers think we own the wilderness (we do don't we??) and that they were taxpayers, too. I mentioned that so were quad riders, dirt bike riders, etc. There was no rational conversation, as I was tersely reminded that many of the trails now forbidden to mountain bikes were originally built and maintained by them in the first place (many of the members ride in the Bay Area) which is not a valid argument for the NP system or Yosemite, specifically.

I may have done us all a disservice because now they know about the proposal! (with the stealthy way in which "legislation" is passed anymore, its amazing that any of us know anything before its too late to speak up about it)

B
avatar Re: Bicycle rule, proposed
January 05, 2009 07:50AM
Here's previous discussion on Bush and Mountain Bikes in parks:

http://yosemitenews.info/forum/read.php?f=1&i=5999&t=5999

The new rule/whatever isn't going to change anything much since
they have to still jump thru hoops (section 4.3) to designate a
trail as ok for bikes.

I really wish they would propose eliminating horses from the trails.
The amount of horse dookie on the abused trails to the HSCamps is...
um... delicious... Of course for all the horse advocates this is a bogus
argument because they never hike thru 20 tons of horse apples.
O well... Bush is a big horse fan too so I don't have much hope there either.
I'm sure the extent of his Sierra experience has been Morro Rock and
a picture at Tunnel View.
Re: Bicycle rule, proposed
January 05, 2009 09:00AM
Is the 4 mile trails a bike trail? This last November me and someone I met on the shuttle bus were hiking up the trail and ran into a couple of mountain bikers going down the trail at what is probably the steepest, rockiest section. We were surprised to see them, but also surprised that anyone would try it. They asked us how long to the bottom. I remember telling them if they weren't careful, not too long at all, otherwise about 30 minutes.

Since I've been backpacking out there, I've run into numerous requests in literature that if all possible try to stay on trail and don't create your own trail if one already exists. I imagine this is to preserve the wilderness as much as possible from our human tendency to disturb everything as much as possible. IMO (in my opinion), the very definition of mountain biking is going "off-road" and "off-trail". I can't imagine that they'll stay on-trail, and instead will look for whatever rock ledge or downed log presents a challenge. Staying on trail kind of defeats the very purpose of mountain biking to begin with. I think there'll be alot of off-trail trails.

Anyway, just my two cents.
Re: Bicycle rule, proposed
January 05, 2009 07:11PM
from_mars wrote:
> Is the 4 mile trails a bike trail? This last November me and
> someone I met on the shuttle bus were hiking up the trail and
> ran into a couple of mountain bikers going down the trail at
> what is probably the steepest, rockiest section. We were
> surprised to see them, but also surprised that anyone would try
> it. They asked us how long to the bottom. I remember telling
> them if they weren't careful, not too long at all, otherwise
> about 30 minutes.

Good answer. Another possibility might be "I'm not sure, but you can ask the two rangers that are just a little behind us..." 8^)





Gary
Yosemite Photo Galleries: http://www.pbase.com/roberthouse/yo
avatar Re: Bicycle rule, proposed
January 05, 2009 08:47PM
Sierrafan wrote:

> Good answer. Another possibility might be "I'm not sure, but
> you can ask the two rangers that are just a little behind
> us..." 8^)

I told a kid with a dirt bike that had broken down on the Pacific Crest Trail (at Deep Creek Hot Springs) to call the rangers for help. He sounded dumb enough to actually do it.

avatar Re: Bicycle rule, proposed
January 06, 2009 06:37AM
Rick,

Where is Deep Creek Hot Springs? Are there really hot springs present?

Jim

avatar Re: Bicycle rule, proposed
January 06, 2009 06:43AM
Rick,

Nevermind, I found it. No wonder I could not find it on the Yosemite maps. You can tell I'm not from around there, even back when I used to be.

Jim

avatar Re: Bicycle rule, proposed
January 06, 2009 02:43PM
FYI, there are no hot springs inside the park.

avatar Re: Bicycle rule, proposed
January 07, 2009 11:35AM
Rick,

Just as well. If there were hot springs in Yosemite it might have a $600./night hotel beside it called Delaware North Hot Springs Resort.

Jim

avatar Re: Bicycle rule, proposed
January 07, 2009 01:55PM
You might be right. But why haven't the hot springs around Mammoth been exploited that way?

avatar Re: Bicycle rule, proposed
January 05, 2009 11:58AM
Hey,
Here's an interesting possibility. If the gun rule is introduced before the bike rule, perhaps a person could enforce a citizen's arrest of the offending biker!
insert smilely face here[ ]

2F





The cure for a fallacious argument is a better argument, not the suppression of ideas.
-- Carl Sagan
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