Re: Ahwahnee Hotel may get massive seismic overhaul

Well, that would make the shuttle bus a lot nicer to ride, with no Ahwahnee loop...

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Gary
Yosemite Photo Galleries: http://www.pbase.com/roberthouse/yo

I'd be more concerned about a giant rock falling on it. No amount of seismic overhaul would survive that.

Vince wrote:

> I'd be more concerned about a giant rock falling on it. No
> amount of seismic overhaul would survive that.

Did you ever hear of proposals that the NPS heard to "preserve" Delicate Arch at Arches National Park? Some of them included encapsulating it in plastic such that it would no longer erode. Of course it was eventually shot down. If it falls down, it falls down. Erosion made the thing, and erosion will take it away.

People tried to save the Old Man of the Mountain in New Hampshire using cables, spikes, and fiberglass/epoxy. Didn't work.

Before:



After:



I wonder how much plastic it would take to encapsulate Washington Column. ;-)

Vince wrote:

> I'd be more concerned about a giant rock falling on it. No
> amount of seismic overhaul would survive that.

Especially if it's North Dome. 8^)

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Gary
Yosemite Photo Galleries: http://www.pbase.com/roberthouse/yo

Stimulus is suppose to create jobs not take them away, no?

They can pay me to hike the trails, make sure they are still there...
O wait, I'll do that for free...

Dale,

I would check the trails for free also. Of course, I would not object to a little stimulus relief for airfare/car rental.

Jim

for $500.00 a night, i certainly hope they at least put air conditioning in the rooms this time. lol

Speaking of old men, how about fishing out the Old Man of the Lake and using the timbers to shore up the Ahwanee? Less tax dollars would be used.

Vince wrote:

> Speaking of old men, how about fishing out the Old Man of the
> Lake and using the timbers to shore up the Ahwanee? Less tax
> dollars would be used.

Is is strong enough? I'd think after over 100 years floating around Crater Lake, it would be pretty weak by now.

y_p_w wrote:

>>Is is strong enough? I'd think after over 100 years floating around Crater
>>Lake, it would be pretty weak by now.

It was just a joke. I didn't make you look up Old Man of the Lake, did I?

No wood allowed in the structure of the Ahwahnee. It's all concrete.

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Old Dude

mrcondron wrote:

> No wood allowed in the structure of the Ahwahnee. It's all
> concrete.

The structure is primarily granite, steel, and timber. The facade is structural concrete molded/colored to look like wood - primarily for fire resistance.

http://www.nps.gov/history/history/online_books/harrison/harrison15.htm

Quote

The building has an irregular, asymmetrical plan that is Y-shaped and contains 150,000 square feet. Primary building materials are rough-cut granite and concrete. The uncoursed granite rubble masonry of the piers matches the color of the adjacent cliffs. What looks like wood siding and structural timbers between the piers is actually concrete, poured into formwork that shapes it to look like horizontal redwood siding and large milled timbers. The stain on the concrete, similar in color to pine bark and redwood lumber, reinforces that illusion that the fabric is wood.

http://yosemitepark.com/Accommodations_TheAhwahnee_History.aspx

Quote

In July 1925, Gilbert Stanley Underwood was selected as the architect for Yosemite's new luxury hotel. Due to its remote location, the construction of The Ahwahnee was the most complex trucking endeavor of its day. Over 5,000 tons of stone, 1,000 tons of steel, and 30,000 feet of timber were hauled over the challenging mountain roads. To protect The Ahwahnee from fire, a fate of many of the Park's earlier hotels, its wood-like facade is actually concrete, poured into rough-hewn wooden forms and stained to look like redwood.

If you look in the dining room, those are real timbers supporting the roof.





Post Edited (03-06-09 16:22)

Those early 1900's weren't the best for Yosemite. First they make one of the two major valleys into a personal water tank for SF (I think that was railroaded through around 1913), then in the early '20's they need a "luxury hotel". Glad they wised up before the casino got built 8^).

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Gary
Yosemite Photo Galleries: http://www.pbase.com/roberthouse/yo

Just think of it: All these years, and we were just one major earthquake away from bye-bye Awanee...(if the quake is big enough, tho, theyre gonna have to put webbing up on all the rocks, too)

B

Bee wrote:

> Just think of it: All these years, and we were just one major
> earthquake away from bye-bye Awanee...

Didn't even take a quake to take out part of 140:

eeeek: >>Didn't even take a quake to take out part of 140<<

I just saw the 140 slide for the first time in feb (I usually take 120). The road that detours on opposite side of the river, is it some old mining road brought back to use?

Maybe they can put up a canvass forest facsade in front of the Awanee to cover it up while they work on it (they do this in Europe so the tourists dont feel cheated out of their "view" of La Scala when its blocked by scaffolding)

B

Bee wrote:

> is it some old mining road brought back to use?

It's the old Yosemite Rail Road right of way.

> Maybe they can put up a canvass forest facsade in front of the
> Awanee to cover it up while they work on it (they do this in
> Europe so the tourists dont feel cheated out of their "view" of
> La Scala when its blocked by scaffolding)
>

Like disguising the oil wells in Los Angeles:
(can you see them in this photo?)

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The cure for a fallacious argument is a better argument, not the suppression of ideas.
-- Carl Sagan

Honestly I don't understand the bashing of the Ahwahnee.
It's a pretty hotel and even though very expensive it is not pretentious.
Any Joe Schmo can walk into the bar and have a cold one and not
feel out of place. I certainly haven't the number of times I've gone in
there with people visiting from out of state.

It's not an eyesore like a lot of crap in the Valley. i.e. Tent Cabins

I'd be surprised if people bash the hotels in Glacier NP.

So, bashers... bash away and explain it to little me.

> It's a pretty hotel and even though very expensive it is not
> pretentious.

?? So what is it then, ostentatious? Or just a simple unassuming place for the elite to get a night's rest?

> It's not an eyesore like a lot of crap in the Valley. i.e.
> Tent Cabins

Yeah, maybe they should tear down those ugly things and build Ahwahnee-style lodging there. Then Joe Schmo can stumble over there after a great night at the Ahwahnee bar, and get a nice unpretentious room for maybe $450-500, with the rest of the common folks. They could rebuild the hotels at Nevada Fall and Glacier too. With reasonable prices of course, to keep the rifraff out (well, out of the rooms...they can hang out at the bar 8^). Then of course resurrect the Valley-Glacier Tramway...and a new motto "National Parks; where the elite meet".

Most of the folks I know, even the ones who are 'better off', either can't or wouldn't pay $500 a night for a room. Politicians and execs can stay there for their "seminars" because somebody else...generally we...are footing their bill for the "seminar". Whether that kind of ostentation belongs in Nationa Parks or not is probably a matter of opinion...but I won't propose to raze anyone's house if they think differently about it than I do.

The Ahwahnee, I was told, was conceived to give politicians and other upper crusters a place to stay in Yosemite in accordance with their position, so they'd be generous to the National Parks in their political and financial dealings. After all, you couldn't expect them to stay at say, Yosemite Lodge, the campground or a tent cabin...imagine your senator in a tent cabin. So it probably was a good step in that respect, personal views of such things aside.

Maybe when they're rebuilding it they can just rename the two Lodge units across from the lobby "The Ahwahnee" and put up a facade front. Give them a couple of complimentary drinks first, so they don't notice their $500 rooms aren't what they used to be. 8^)

Sierrafan wrote:

> Yeah, maybe they should tear down those ugly things and build
> Ahwahnee-style lodging there. Then Joe Schmo can stumble over
> there after a great night at the Ahwahnee bar, and get a nice
> unpretentious room for maybe $450-500, with the rest of the
> common folks. They could rebuild the hotels at Nevada Fall and
> Glacier too. With reasonable prices of course, to keep the
> rifraff out (well, out of the rooms...they can hang out at the
> bar 8^). Then of course resurrect the Valley-Glacier
> Tramway...and a new motto "National Parks; where the elite
> meet".

Here's someone claiming to get a room at the Ahwahnee for $199/night.

http://www.independent.com/news/2009/mar/03/barney-gets-his-yosemite-fix/

Quote

At lunch at Ahwahnee the day after we arrived, we learned that due to the low-demand season, rooms were available at $199, hundreds of dollars below the rack rate and only $100 more than we were paying at Yosemite Lodge. We moved fast. The cheapie rate, we were told, was only available for those who approached in person at the front desk, not via Internet.

bill-e-g wrote:


> It's not an eyesore like a lot of crap in the Valley. i.e.
> Tent Cabins

There are a lot of negative comments about Camp Curry. However, I would argue in favor of these. A lot of the population is just too old to sleep on the ground and the current campgrounds are more like parking lots. At least there is bit of comfort balanced with isolation from the car culture, generators, and unsupervised kids with hatchets! If you want to argue against the Housekeeping Camp units, I would agree that they are painful to see and are like refugee camps.

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The cure for a fallacious argument is a better argument, not the suppression of ideas.
-- Carl Sagan

Bee, in my last trip there I bought a great history book on the Yosemite Railroad, I'll scan in a few pages for you. When you detour over the Merced, you are driving on the old railbed.

As far as the Ahwanee, I'll make a nasty comment about the big room...put metal hoops with nets on the ends...nuff said.

And some of the furniture too.

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Old Dude

Vince:>Bee, in my last trip there I bought a great history book on the Yosemite Railroad<

Was it the old Narrow Gauge? The Sacramento RR museum has a great collection of all those old contraptions. I kept thinking as I was driving along that precariously narrow road that nothing would fit on it except mabe a mule!

B

This might help:

http://www.yosemitevalleyrailroad.com/General.Subjects/YV.Intro.html

Obviously crap too:

Bill:

Take that picture and imagine that big stone from Raiders of the Lost Ark rolling through the middle

bill-e-g:>Obviously crap too<

Hmm...judging by the masonary walls, if it caves in, it will look just like that rock slide on 140...

B



Post Edited (03-06-09 21:25)

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The body betrays and the weather conspires, hopefully, not on the same day.

>Take that picture and imagine that big stone from Raiders of the Lost Ark rolling through the middle

Why would I want to do that when I'm looking out at the Grand Canyon?

More poo:

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Everything I know I learned from

bill-e-g wrote:

> More poo:
>
>

Just curious, but what building is this? I thought the line of thinking was about Gilbert Stanley Underwood designs like the Ahwahnee Hotel. I recognized the Grand Canyon Lodge, and I had a reference to Underwood's intentional wave pattern for the roof at Bryce Canyon Lodge.

Underwood's last work was the Jackson Lake Lodge at Grand Teton. That wasn't quite the "National Park Rustic" style, but generally classified as "International Style" with simple sharp lines and a modernist feel.

>
> Just curious, but what building is this? <

My first guess is Many Glacier Hotel in Glacier park. But lots of these national park lodges are similar in appearance.

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The cure for a fallacious argument is a better argument, not the suppression of ideas.
-- Carl Sagan

Poor design here caused the roof to warp:

Native American logic

Ah... So we should have built a casino.

Ok... makes perfect sense now.

Thanks for clearing that up

Seriously... you have got to be kidding

We should doze everything in the Valley then. And then head to
your town and start with your house too. Everything must go.

How about some common sense?

Anway, I'm off to Yosemite... try to get this negativity out of my system.



Post Edited (03-07-09 05:06)

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Everything I know I learned from

LOL "Frank"

Huell Howser's show about the oil wells in Long Beach are on my youtube site (Scorekeepn)

Heh

Frank Furter:>Like disguising the oil wells in Los Angeles<

Oh, dont forget the "FrankenTrees"!! Those hideous fake trees that stick up on mountaintops trying to cover up the cell phone towers.

B

As for the Ahwahnee bashing, I just don't understand it. Don't get me wrong; I am not some rich Robb Report reading CEO. I stayed in the Ahwahnee for 2 nights on my honeymoon in 2005 before taking financial refuge in Wawona for the rest of my stay. Those two nights in Ahwahnee were truly special and totally worth the cost (which approached 50% of my honeymoon budget). It is not a place to stay for every visit (I suspect I may not stay there again unless it is a VERY big occasion), but the opportunity to have that kind of luxury juxtaposed with the extreme beauty and ruggedness of Yosemite is an experience I would never trade away. There is plenty of remote Yosemite wilderness for everyone who wants to get away from any reminder of money and capitalism; I love that part of Yosemite as well. As for the cost... Yes it is ridiculously expensive. But like it or not, money is what our society uses to ration limited resources with extreme demand. Sure, I have some contempt for those who have more money than they deserve and waltz into Yosemite for their superficial nature experience and several hundred dollar evening meals every time they visit, but that is life. I'm willing to look the other way when I see those people, and enjoy what should be considered one of our nicest, and necessarily rarest aspects of our national park.

FF:>If you want to argue against the Housekeeping Camp units, I would agree that they are painful to see and are like refugee camps.<


I stayed in Upper Pines right near "Housekeeping Camp" with the barracks like reminder -- what IS Housekeeping Camp? (I thought that it was where the workers lived!)

B

Bee wrote:

>
> I stayed in Upper Pines right near "Housekeeping Camp" with the
> barracks like reminder -- what IS Housekeeping Camp? (I thought
> that it was where the workers lived!)
>
> B

Just another option for lodging in the valley:
http://www.yosemitepark.com/accommodations_housekeepingcamp.aspx

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The cure for a fallacious argument is a better argument, not the suppression of ideas.
-- Carl Sagan

I have no problem with the Ahwahnee. We can indignant that people stay in luxury hotels, but then again the paying customers help subsidize the experience for the rest of us. One can enjoy a breakfast or lunch there that doesn't break the bank. People can rest in the lounge or enjoy the fireplace (it's great during the winter) and nobody is asked if they're a hotel guest.

I did find it a little bit different at Paradise Inn at Mt Rainier though. They had some tables in the main lounge that were reserved for guests only. It's been my experience that national park lodges typically didn't have common areas that weren't open to the public.

**Knock Knock Knock**

*Housekeeping*

*Would you like your pillows fluffed before or after the landslide?*

*Here, chocolates on you pillow paid for by your $20 entrance fee*

FF:>Just another option for lodging in the valley<

Thank you. I dont mean to be obtuse on what may seem obvious, but much of these ammenities/terminology are unique to the US and the National Park system in general. I am equally amazed and appalled at times (and gullible on occasion: "hey boyfriend, did you know that they offered housekeeping in the campgrounds??!"

B

Bee wrote:

> FF:>Just another option for lodging in the valley<
>
> Thank you. I dont mean to be obtuse on what may seem obvious,
> but much of these ammenities/terminology are unique to the US
> and the National Park system in general. I am equally amazed
> and appalled at times (and gullible on occasion: "hey
> boyfriend, did you know that they offered housekeeping in the
> campgrounds??!"
>
> B
They don't actually have housekeeping in the "Housekeeping Cabins" (unless things have changed). They are like 3/4 shelters with an open side. It is an interesting arrangement that has similarities to some picnic or reststop and backcountry shelters. I don't know the history of them, but a form of this type shelter is also available in Grand Teton Park and basically subsitutes for a tent.

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The cure for a fallacious argument is a better argument, not the suppression of ideas.
-- Carl Sagan

Frank Furter wrote:

> Bee wrote:
>
> > FF:>Just another option for lodging in the valley<
> >
> > Thank you. I dont mean to be obtuse on what may seem obvious,
> > but much of these ammenities/terminology are unique to the US
> > and the National Park system in general. I am equally amazed
> > and appalled at times (and gullible on occasion: "hey
> > boyfriend, did you know that they offered housekeeping in the
> > campgrounds??!"
> >
> > B
> They don't actually have housekeeping in the "Housekeeping
> Cabins" (unless things have changed). They are like 3/4
> shelters with an open side. It is an interesting arrangement
> that has similarities to some picnic or reststop and
> backcountry shelters. I don't know the history of them, but a
> form of this type shelter is also available in Grand Teton Park
> and basically subsitutes for a tent.

I would guess that the history might be that they were once used by park employees. A lot of park employees live in tent cabins behind the shuttle route near the Valley backpackers parking lot.

The one thing about Housekeeping Camp (as well as campsites) is that there is the occasional burglary going on. However - each site/tent cabin is provided an individual bear box, and it is generally OK to use a lock if it's not a shared bear box (like at trailhead parking areas). I haven't heard of tents or car camping style sleeping bags being stolen.

>Just curious, but what building is this?

It's the Glacier Park Lodge

bill-e-g wrote:

> >Just curious, but what building is this?
>
> It's the Glacier Park Lodge

Cool. Found out it has its own Wikipedia article. However - it isn't actually in the boundaries of Glacier National Park.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glacier_Park_Lodge

Ok, so in conclusion we should raze the hotel because:
- It's too expensive
- It shouldn't be there because it interferes with "Native American Management Practices" (can't burn that area)

My goal was only to get people to tell me really why they bash the Ahwahnee.
I'm not proposing to eliminate Curry Village or North Pines or build anything
new just to leave was it be.

Although it if WERE up to me Tioga Road would be history and so
would the High Sierra Camps.
No need to slam me on this but if you must... I fully understand why
they are there and why they are "needed".

And... I would stay there some night but it is just ungodly expensive.
But I will continue to go into it and be greated by the Bellhop,
have a cold beer and the bar, check out the giftshop, and
sit down on a couch near the fireplace. (but not in summer, the whole
valley is a zoo then and I'm seeking my own $500 a night
location in the wilderness for free... away from the riff-raff)

Have a nice day

I think you're the only one who mentioned tearing anything down, other than rockfall or earthquakes doing it. We can't tailor a national park to our own specific needs, 'cause the next person probably would do it a different way, and it's theirs too. One guy wants smoky campgrounds all along the river from the Pohono Bridge to Happy Isles, the next guy wants a luxury hotel at every outcropping and point on the same route.

It's pretty reasonable now, with options for almost everyone, but not enough of anything, because there can't be; having 'enough' lodging, camping, etc. of all types so you could just pop in and get a spot in Mid July would make it like staying at any crowded resort.

The Ahwahnee's a good place for honeymoons and other such occasions, so it fills a need too. It's great for old people with money but limited mobility, and for special short once-in-a-lifetime visits. I question whether they get anything more than a very superficial view of Yosemite from staying there in that pampered environment....but that's their business.

Whether politicians "need" a taxpayer-provided $500/night place to have a meeting is another matter, to me, same goes for "executives" who bring their families along on their "seminar" paid for by the company. But then again, that's a personal viewpoint from someone who doesn't need the bar at the Ahwahnee, OR the Mountain Room (don't drink) and isn't impressed by waiters describing the harvesting of mushrooms from a meadow in the Andes, because I'd just as soon have a bowl of chili or a Philly.

But don't worry, I have no interest in tearing anything down, as if it would matter...your bar and fireplace is safe as far as I'm concerned. Still wish the shuttle bus didn't have to go so far out of the way on that loop though, because it makes for a long ride, which makes it tempting to not use the shuttle.

I'm glad there IS such a variety of choices in the valley; from the campgrounds, pines for tents and RV, camp 4 and backpacker's, tent and housekeeping cabins at Curry, cabins at Curry, the Lodge, and the Ahwahnee; and the wilderness beyond.

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Gary
Yosemite Photo Galleries: http://www.pbase.com/roberthouse/yo

Sierrafan wrote:

> It's pretty reasonable now, with options for almost everyone,
> but not enough of anything, because there can't be; having
> 'enough' lodging, camping, etc. of all types so you could just
> pop in and get a spot in Mid July would make it like staying
> at any crowded resort.

Didn't the NPS (at various times_ remove the nine-hole "pitch and putt" golf course, tennis courts. competition-sized swimming pool, miniature train, and bowling alley?

> The Ahwahnee's a good place for honeymoons and other such
> occasions, so it fills a need too. It's great for old people
> with money but limited mobility, and for special short
> once-in-a-lifetime visits. I question whether they get
> anything more than a very superficial view of Yosemite from
> staying there in that pampered environment....but that's their
> business.

I have no problem with providing a reasonable service. It's only 123 rooms, which is a small fraction of the total lodging available in Yosemite Valley. There's a place for lodging like the Ahwahnee Hotel, the Old Faithful Snow Lodge, the El Tovar Hotel, etc.

However - I'd sooner see the NPS bulldoze monstrosities to location aesthetics like the Thunderbird Lodge in Grand Canyon. Whose idea was it to build a godawful 60's era motel-like structure in one of the grandest places on earth? It looks like my elementary school building, and that's not a compliment.



> Whether politicians "need" a taxpayer-provided $500/night place
> to have a meeting is another matter, to me, same goes for
> "executives" who bring their families along on their "seminar"
> paid for by the company. But then again, that's a personal
> viewpoint from someone who doesn't need the bar at the
> Ahwahnee, OR the Mountain Room (don't drink) and isn't
> impressed by waiters describing the harvesting of mushrooms
> from a meadow in the Andes, because I'd just as soon have a
> bowl of chili or a Philly.

In any case, I thought that the Ahwanee (and the Yosemite Lodge Mountain Room) emphasized local, seasonal meat and produce. Sort of Alice Waters meets the Sierra Nevada, but they wouldn't be talking about shipping food halfway around the world.



Post Edited (03-09-09 11:15)

I never said I wanted it demolished I only implied that OTHER
people wanted it gone because of all the bashing.

Gary, you actually implied they should not have built it in the first place.

Anyway, this is my last post.

Have a nice life

bill-e-g: >Anyway, this is my last post.<

gosh, I hope that its only your last post on THIS thread. I now finally understand the whole GPS lexicon thanx to evesdropping in on your explanations!

B

Or if you can manage to be staying at the campground when it floods, they may put you up there for free; I think it was in 1997 that happened, but maybe 2005. The '97 flood was in January when hardly anybody's there anyway, but 2005 one was in May when theyr'e usually pretty full.

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Gary
Yosemite Photo Galleries: http://www.pbase.com/roberthouse/yo

This AP wire story article claims a price tag of $20 million.

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/n/a/2009/03/12/state/n180700D73.DTL

Not to worry. The new 300-room Econo-Lodge planned for Tuolumne Meadows should restore any lost tax revenue from the Awahnee closing.
You heard it here.

Jim

tomdisco wrote:

> Not to worry. The new 300-room Econo-Lodge planned for
> Tuolumne Meadows ....


The marmots will love it. (That would be its official name: The Marmot Motel at Tuolumne Meadows.)

The valley lemmings would never be able to find it.

http://www.mercurynews.com/news/ci_11927854?source=email

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Old Dude