Re: Recent Yosemite trip

My recent trip to Yosemite and reintroduction to backpacking after some 25 years had mixed results but the trip was still defintely worth it.

The first day, 7/12, was a delightful day hike to Sunrise Lakes. These are some of the most beautiful small lakes I've ever seen, particularly the outlet end of the second lake. Did not want to leave.

7/13 was an overnighter to Young Lakes and my first experience carrying a 40-lb pack over 10,000'. I managed to get as far as the small waterfall between the 2nd and 3rd lakes before turning back. Mosquitos were thick enough even in mid day to stick to original plan of hiking back to the trail junction west of Ragged Peak and then on down to just outside the no camping zone on a promontory at 9,700' west of the trail. This turned out to be a great camp site that did not appear to see much use or none that I could detect. I hit the sack at 8:30 as soon as the sun set and soon began getting frustrated that I could not move my aching legs around much in the mummy bag. Shortly after that the walls of my small Sierra Designs Clip Flashlight tent began closing in on me and I was hit by an overwhelming panic attack of claustrofobia which fired me out of that tent like a shotgun! This is embarrasing to admit but I've got to be honest. Believe me, it came as a total surprise. This cycle repeated itself a couple more times in total darkness and once more after the Moon was up. Each time I extracted myself from the tent I spent a considerable amount of time wandering around that promontory clearing my head and enjoying the night sky. The last time I entered the tent was 2AM at which time I left the skeeter screen all the way open so I could alternately open and close my eyes when needed to assure the stars were still there instead of just tent fabric. I woke up at 4:30 to early morning twilight, called it a night, and made breakfast.

The plan for 7/14 was to go on to Glen Aulin, camp beyond McGee Lake, and exit to 120 via May Lake. Due to extreme pain in my legs plus blisters on the back of both heels (something new in boots I've worn for 9 months), I decided that my age, a 40-lb pack, claustrophobia, altitude, and planned hiking miles were a bit much to continue backpacking. I exited to TM and began driving to Lee Vining for a motel room. A half mile past the Tuolumne Lodge/Trail Permit exit a deer I never saw coming apparently launched itself airborne off the left hand embankment and landed in the driver's side of my rental car stoving in the door and ripping off the side view mirror. Instead of resting my tired body and tending to my feet I spent an hour on the phone plus a 270 mile round trip to Reno to replace the rental car. Should have gone to Glen Aulin!

On 7/15 I cancelled my permit for the Cathedral-to-Lyell Canyon backpacking trip and devoted my remaining time to day hikes. In succession I did Cathedral Lakes, a day off to Mammoth Mountain and June Lake, Glen Aulin, and North Dome. I still wanted to do May Lake and Elizabeth Lake but at that point my feet were such a mess it was necessary to call it quits to avoid getting blisters infected. The Cathedral Lake trip was delightful because a stiff breeze kept away bugs and I circled the lake to check out the waterfall outlet end. Glen Aulin was great despite the 11.6 miles round trip. North Dome/Indian Rock was worth it but essentially all uphill on the way back. I managed to drop my digital camera on North Dome. As it careened down the slope with me in pursuit the thought obviously crossed my mind, "How far do I pursue this camera if it does not stop bouncing?" As I anticipated the long drop to the valley floor the camera finally stopped and proved to be still in full working order with scratches on every corner. Never a dull moment on this trip.

Some of you may get a chuckle out of all this and that's O.K. It just goes to show that a man in his 60's with no backpacking experience in 25 years who lives at 300' elevation may not not be equiped to handle the rigors of Yosemite day in and day out no matter how willing the mind. It's too bad I don't live out there where I could take small bites of Yosemite at a time to build up my stamina for the altitude and miles. In any event, I still greatly enjoyed the experience to my best ability and would not trade it for anything.

Jim



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/25/2009 09:08AM by tomdisco.

To quote the famous lines of Robert Burns:
"The best laid schemes o' Mice an' Men
Gang aft agley"

[For the entire poem: http://www.freemedialibrary.com/index.php/To_a_Mouse. By the way, the 1939 film version of Steinbeck's "Of Mice and Men" was aired on Turner Classic Movies a few nights ago - perhaps an appropriate topping to your trip if you saw it.]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/25/2009 10:19AM by szalkowski.

Don't worry, Jim, here's a teaser: my "day" hike did not finish up until 10:00pm tonight. The combination of the late exit and my cell phone battery dying a slow death was enough to have my neighbor waiting outside at Midnight...more to come. Oh, yeah, new boots and blisters play a role in this story/fiasco, too!

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Bee
new boots and blisters

Didn't anyone tell you about that?

It's the same story as Jim: I had been wearing them to work and local hikes, but what you don't get in the local stuff is the extreme angle of climbing -- that's where the REAL test is. Everytime I took a step 1000ft out of the lake basin, another layer of skin was rubbing off.

Bee just nailed the problem. It's mostly the rough trail conditions.

I bought the Osolo Powermatic 100's last September and have been doing local hikes in NC ever since then. The Osolo's are an excellent boot, very comfortable, and require little breaking in. On one or two particularly long local hikes I noticed a couple hot spots but examination after the hikes showed nothing.

In Yosemite or most any high Sierra hiking the trail surfaces are much rougher and vary dramatically from cobblestone obstacle course, bare granite, bare flat soil, to deep grinding sand and require constant twisting and varying impact on each footfall. Add the weight of a pack and you have a formula for blisters that sneak up on you even with use of moleskin, which I started using after the first day hike to Sunrise Lakes (might have been one day too late).

I could live with blisters for awhile but the risk of serious infection is high if you try to ignore them day after day.

Jim

I had a similar re-entry (though I'm not sixty yet, there were still about fifteen years of couch-potatoing involved) to backpacking, and I had almost the same response to being in a tent. It led me to hammocks and tarps. I've been hanging all over Yosemite and surrounding areas ever since.

The Yosemite trail system is definitely murder on the soles. My least-favorite are the steps and switchbacks of the Mist Trail on a late spring afternoon - I find it perpetually mind boggling that people do that trail in worn tenny runners, flipflops, and high heels (yes, I've seem them, she didn't get all the way to the top).

I am an assistant organizer of a local (Fresno) hiking group and we frequently go to Yosemite - you do better than some. I find that people who are new to hiking have very creative ways of getting hurt. I try to keep them on frontcountry trails and save Donahue Pass for seasoned backpackers.

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AlmostThere
The Yosemite trail system is definitely murder on the soles. My least-favorite are the steps and switchbacks of the Mist Trail on a late spring afternoon - I find it perpetually mind boggling that people do that trail in worn tenny runners, flipflops, and high heels (yes, I've seem them, she didn't get all the way to the top).

Back in Dec 2005 I tried going up the Upper Yosemite Fall Trail. I didn't actually make it up to the top, and I was probably poorly equipped for the conditions. I had waterproof breathable gear, but wore cotton (t-shirt and jeans) underneath. I also had Gore-Tex trail runners. I was feeling clammy although it was unseasonably warm (about high 50s F) and it started raining.

I saw a family of three. The dad went up wearing leather soled dress shoes. The rain coupled with the slick granite must have been great for those leather soled shoes.

Almost There,

I'm glad I'm not the only one who ran into this weird clastrophobia problem in small tents. I tent occasionally in a large family tent at astronomy star parties with no problem. This episode at Yosemite really came at me out of left field. About a year and a half ago I began experiencing such anxiety attacks right here at home. My doctor prescribed a generic version of Xanax but I only used about 6 of them and had not had any attacks for almost a year. I never gave any thought to bringing them with me because the issue had seemingly gone away. Should have brought some.

What an unwanted surprise at Yosemite. It's a good thing nobody else was with me. Not only would I have kept them awake, they would have been treated with a stream of invective every time I came out of that tent. I had been looking forward to this trip for a year and just could not beleive what was happening to me. The added tease prior to moonrise was that as an amateur astronomer I was hosted by the darkest sky I've ever witnessed with no telescope.

Again, I envy all those of you who can take weekend bites of Yosemite.

Jim



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/27/2009 07:17AM by tomdisco.

Wow...what a trip! Kudos to you for being able to enjoy what you did enjoy. And as far as those backpacking tents are concerned...I saw how miniscule those babies are at our local REI a few weeks ago. I already know my limitations with those tents, and I must admit I absolutely HATE mummy bags too.

Jim,
Sorry things didn't work out entirely as planned.
I was really looking forward to hearing how great a time you had and
how you are now planning for next year.
I hope the wife is not saying "I told you so".

Maybe you should have read this article:
http://yosemitenews.info/forum/read.php?1,14743,14743#msg-14743

I like to say "you gotta deal with the cards you're dealt". I guess in your
case you got a hand of jokers.

I hope you haven't sworn off backpacking entirely. There are other ways to
do things and alot of equipment out there that could solve your issues.

Anyway, it sounds like you made the best of the situation and now have
some 'great' stories.

(and they're laughing with you.. not at you...)

Thanks Dale,

You may be assured I've not given up on backpacking. Having time to think about it there are a few changes I would need to make:

1. Bring the damned Xanax next time for life in a tent. Hate taking stuff like that but it not only kills the claustrophobia; it guarantees a nights sleep. I'd like to cancel the tent entirely just for the weight factor but cannot dismiss freak downpours.

2. Find some way to cut down more on total pack weight. 40 pounds (including water) is too much for this body day in and day out. In hindsight I could have made due with just one water bottle and the Katadyn filter in July. There were ample small fresh sources of water along the trails. Next year to Yosemite would likely be late August or early September (for less skeeters) so the limited prevalence of small water sources may not permit eliminating the second water bottle. Just don't know.

3. Plan just one 4 day--3 night backpacking trip and avoid 10-mile days. The thought here is I would still like to do the Sunrise-Merced-Volgelsang loop, take a couple days off, and then have my wife join me for a couple of day hikes at her speed. My 10+ mile trip to Young Lakes and part way back may not have been a good choice for first day of backpacking. This was a case of trying to squeeze too much into the first planned 2-nighter. I should have done just Glen Aulin/McGee Lake and then on to May Lake the next day.

4. Solve the blister problem. Part of this is just cutting down on miles. I suppose aggressive use of moleskin on the problem area beginning on day one is a must. Beyond that I'm open to suggestions, lots of them.

5. Accept that Yosemite isn't going anywhere and I don't have to see so much of it in one trip.

6. Inherit a private jet with all expenses paid for life so I can fly west whenever desired. Need help on this one.

Not discouraged at all, well,------ maybe regarding the jet.

Jim

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tomdisco
1. Bring the damned Xanax next time for life in a tent. Hate taking stuff like that but it not only kills the claustrophobia; it guarantees a nights sleep.

Xanax could linger well into the next day. Ambien might be a better choice.

eeek,

Ambien won't stop claustrophobia. As far as the Xanax goes I've found using half a pill is plenty with no side effects the next morning.

Jim

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tomdisco
Ambien won't stop claustrophobia.

No, but you'l be asleep and won't notice it.

eeek,

Look, an Ambien pill weighs about 10 times as much as half a Xanax pill. I'm trying to cut down on pack weight. Help me out here!

Jim

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1. Bring the damned Xanax next time for life in a tent. .....

There are some reports of Acute Mountain Sickness presenting as anxiety. You may be better of with a specific treatment for that (acetazolamide) rather than a benzodiazapine like Xanax or Valium. In fact, most authorities advise against sedative-hypnotics or alcohol at elevation as it can cause disordered sleep and increase hypoxemia. Suggest this possiblity to your physician who will have a better picture of your entire health issues (illnesses, other medications, etc).
.....

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2. Find some way to cut down more on total pack weight. .

There is a great and growing cult of people interested in ultralight packing. I use the Gossamer stuff, but there are others. Many ways to reduce things ounce by ounce ( I use 1 liter pop bottles for water rather than Nalgene; some systems use socks as the padding in the shoulder or hip straps; not taking a stove, etc)
....

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4. Solve the blister problem. Part of this is just cutting down on miles. I suppose aggressive use of moleskin on the problem area beginning on day one is a must. Beyond that I'm open to suggestions, lots of them.

Search this forum for “blisters”. Discussion some months ago. Moleskin, in my opinion, is overrated. It loosens, bunches up and falls off. I have found Kinesio Tape or Physio Tape to have better adherence on the foot. Consider sock choices (quality wool alone, in my opinion, works best). the two layer sock system is advocated, but not my favorite. Podiatry books suggest foot moisturizing, powder and antiperspirants to reduce sweating, wicking socks, draining blisters aseptically. PM me if you want additional info.

....

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6. Inherit a private jet with all expenses paid for life so I can fly west whenever desired. Need help on this one.

I know you didn't expect an answer to this, but I have been amazed by the air miles racked up by my wife using a credit card that gives Delta Air Miles (American Express). "Free" travel!

---

The cure for a fallacious argument is a better argument, not the suppression of ideas.
-- Carl Sagan

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tomdisco
I'm trying to cut down on pack weight. Help me out here!
Jim

Weigh EVERYTHING. What does each item weigh?

Get the small bearcan. Bear Boxer. It's a full pound < the others.
You should be able to get a 4 day trip into it. (first day does not need to be in there...)

Dale,

I agree 100% on the bear can size. Bought the full size Garcia but really did not need that extra capacity.

Jim

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tomdisco

2. Find some way to cut down more on total pack weight. 40 pounds (including water) is too much for this body day in and day out. In hindsight I could have made due with just one water bottle and the Katadyn filter in July. There were ample small fresh sources of water along the trails. Next year to Yosemite would likely be late August or early September (for less skeeters) so the limited prevalence of small water sources may not permit eliminating the second water bottle. Just don't know.

I cut way down by eliminating the sleeping bag and using a quilt, using Platypus bladders or similar soft sided, switching to an alcohol stove/boil and rehydrate cooking setup, and getting something other than the monstrous Osprey/Gregory packs. Last weekend I used the Gossamer Gear Mariposa Plus and weighed out at 25 pounds including food, water and bear can. My two quilts, hammock and tarp plus associated tent stakes/guys runs about 5 lbs.

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4. Solve the blister problem. Part of this is just cutting down on miles. I suppose aggressive use of moleskin on the problem area beginning on day one is a must. Beyond that I'm open to suggestions, lots of them.

Get the right size boot/shoe. I tried on everything in the store out of desperation once after going through three pairs of terrible, terrible shoes that were supposedly my size. I have to wear a men's shoe that's two sizes bigger than it should be. Women's shoes are too narrow, smaller shoes end up giving me bad toe bang or terrible blisters, and then I discovered orthotic inserts like Superfeet - NO BLISTERS. No need for liner socks. No need for moleskin. I do carry Leukotape (sold on Backpacking Light but often out of stock, or on ebay by the huge roll) to slap a piece on a hot spot IF one develops. But I have lately been giving it to other people. I have Merrell Moab Ventilators, and for heavier loads I picked up some Asolo FSNs; my trail shoes are Saloman Exos. I wore out a pair of Keen Voyageurs last year. All these in the correct (larger than my measured) size have worked fine.

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5. Accept that Yosemite isn't going anywhere and I don't have to see so much of it in one trip.

Yosemite will indeed be there for you to keep coming back.

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AlmostThere

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tomdisco

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5. Accept that Yosemite isn't going anywhere and I don't have to see so much of it in one trip.

Yosemite will indeed be there for you to keep coming back.

What about the remote possibility that El Capitan suddenly collapses?

Seriously though - we're lucky that Yosemite is primarily relatively stable granite. Famous sandstone formations always have the possibility of sudden collapse. One of these days Delicate Arch is coming down the same way it was formed - through the erosion of rock.

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y_p_w

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AlmostThere

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tomdisco

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5. Accept that Yosemite isn't going anywhere and I don't have to see so much of it in one trip.

Yosemite will indeed be there for you to keep coming back.

What about the remote possibility that El Capitan suddenly collapses?

Seriously though - we're lucky that Yosemite is primarily relatively stable granite. Famous sandstone formations always have the possibility of sudden collapse. One of these days Delicate Arch is coming down the same way it was formed - through the erosion of rock.

That's O.K.; I've seen and photographed El Cap so many times it's printed in my memory forever.

Jim

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AlmostThere

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tomdisco

2. Find some way to cut down more on total pack weight. 40 pounds (including water) is too much for this body day in and day out. In hindsight I could have made due with just one water bottle and the Katadyn filter in July. There were ample small fresh sources of water along the trails. Next year to Yosemite would likely be late August or early September (for less skeeters) so the limited prevalence of small water sources may not permit eliminating the second water bottle. Just don't know.

I cut way down by eliminating the sleeping bag and using a quilt, using Platypus bladders or similar soft sided, switching to an alcohol stove/boil and rehydrate cooking setup, and getting something other than the monstrous Osprey/Gregory packs. Last weekend I used the Gossamer Gear Mariposa Plus and weighed out at 25 pounds including food, water and bear can. My two quilts, hammock and tarp plus associated tent stakes/guys runs about 5 lbs.

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4. Solve the blister problem. Part of this is just cutting down on miles. I suppose aggressive use of moleskin on the problem area beginning on day one is a must. Beyond that I'm open to suggestions, lots of them.

Get the right size boot/shoe. I tried on everything in the store out of desperation once after going through three pairs of terrible, terrible shoes that were supposedly my size. I have to wear a men's shoe that's two sizes bigger than it should be. Women's shoes are too narrow, smaller shoes end up giving me bad toe bang or terrible blisters, and then I discovered orthotic inserts like Superfeet - NO BLISTERS. No need for liner socks. No need for moleskin. I do carry Leukotape (sold on Backpacking Light but often out of stock, or on ebay by the huge roll) to slap a piece on a hot spot IF one develops. But I have lately been giving it to other people. I have Merrell Moab Ventilators, and for heavier loads I picked up some Asolo FSNs; my trail shoes are Saloman Exos. I wore out a pair of Keen Voyageurs last year. All these in the correct (larger than my measured) size have worked fine.

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5. Accept that Yosemite isn't going anywhere and I don't have to see so much of it in one trip.

Yosemite will indeed be there for you to keep coming back.

Almost There,

I was using a heavy Thermolite 20 degree bag that is getting replaced with a higher temperature lightweight down bag. I'll probably save the Thermolite bag for much colder and damper occasions. The 5.5 lb Gregory backpack is history and will get replaced with the REI Flash 65, much lighter. Other weight reductions will include a smaller bear can, lighter flashlight, no water sandles, no camp shoes, one less cook pan, no tent footprint, and less personals. As far as I can determine this dumps a little more than 10 lbs. My heaviest single item remaining is the tent and fly at 4.5 lbs. which I'm not ready to ditch. The approximate 40-lb pack weight being carried before also included 1.5 liters of water (2 full bottles) plus a Katadyn Hiker water filter. In hindsite there were ample sources of water along the trails where one bottle might have sufficed but if I go in late August that may not be true. The one nighter I did was a dry camp that did require both full bottles for drinking and cooking. For the most part I thinks it is foolish to skimp on water. In case of injury one might need extra water for both hydration and flushing of a wound. If the nearest water is 2 miles away, your are injured with an open wound and all you have left is half a bottle, that's not good.

As for shoes, my Osolo Powermatic 100's went back to REI and I'm looking at a variety of trail running shoes. The Osolo's actually fit very well and felt very good for the 9 months preceding Yosemite with no problems. They were however a bit heavy. Somebody said an once on the feet is like a pound on the back. I do have a pair of lighter weight non-waterproof Merrel's but I would like to get away from medium and high top shoes altogether because the heel area is the problem spot. Dale (bill-e-g) recommended waterproof trail runners and I'm beginning to discover a number of folks switching over to that due to various boot problems. As for tape, I think I'll dump the moleskin and try Kinesio or Physio tape instead because it's outer surface is smoother and it makes better skin contact.

Each person's situation is different so desired solutions will vary for different folks.

Jim

Here's my suggestions and comments.
a) Mummy bag - bin it. If you want a "mummy" bag then go for the Montbell Ultralight hugger
- 30 degrees will do just well July- thru Sept. (just bring fleece top and bottom for added warmth)
b) Tent - go without from July- thru Sept.. Buy a tarp ... you're seeing more and more of them...
and then play with it so that you are comfortable setting it up. Chances are you won't need it and
can just sleep outside on a ground cloth
c) Boots - return them. Get some trail running type shoes. More and more are out there that have
Vibram soles and cooshy insoles. It's all I use now except in winter.
d) 40 pounds! Scrutinize your stuff. You shouldn't be that heavy for a short trip.
If your pack weighs > 5 pounds... get a new one...

That's my 2 cents

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bill-e-g
b) Tent - go without from July- thru Sept.. Buy a tarp ... you're seeing more and more of them...
and then play with it so that you are comfortable setting it up. Chances are you won't need it and
can just sleep outside on a ground cloth
c) Boots - return them. Get some trail running type shoes. More and more are out there that have
Vibram soles and cooshy insoles. It's all I use now except in winter.

Excellent suggestions.

Do you have any photos of your tarp setup? How do you support it?

About the boots, I just bought some lightweight (30 oz.) hiking boots that I like (Merrell Moab Ventilator)
and they do cover the ankles, which I like for giving support. I have only tried them for day hikes
so far. I don't know how they would be with a full pack on.

They say an ounce on the foot is equivalent to a pound on the back. Or something like that.

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RobE
Do you have any photos of your tarp setup? How do you support it?

About the boots, I just bought some lightweight (30 oz.) hiking boots that I like (Merrell Moab Ventilator)
and they do cover the ankles, which I like for giving support. I have only tried them for day hikes
so far. I don't know how they would be with a full pack on.

They say an ounce on the foot is equivalent to a pound on the back. Or something like that.

I've used the same shoes but the low version. Pack probably around 30 pounds. Never had issues.
Did JMT from TM to Kings Road End. No issues. 100's and 100's of miles. Gone thru about 5 pairs now.
No issues.

Tarp. I have the GoLite Shangri-La 1. Just search for that. That one is simple to setup.
It's light but not super light. It's rated at 4 season. Pretty happy with it but kinda been on a never ending
quest for lighter and lighter but yet safe and comfy.
I recently bought the MSR E-Wing.... but alas haven't had to even set it up in the "field".
I've only set it up in the backyard. The 4 other times I've brought it along there was no threat of rain
and never set it up. The super light ones are ridiculously expensive....
Check out stuff like Gossamer Gear and Mountain Laurel Designs. Also look at backpackinglight.com.
Just so much stuff out there that is pretty good and light. MLD is good stuff but ... gimingy... I'm
still waiting for my superlight bivy!

My other big comment is don't plan anything > 10 miles per day.

Don't worry about what anyone else out there is doing. Do what you enjoy.

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bill-e-g
My other big comment is don't plan anything > 10 miles per day.

Don't worry about what anyone else out there is doing. Do what you enjoy.

A-MEN to that one. 18 miles in one day is one hell of a forced march, and there was nothing fun about the last 8 miles except trying to figure out how to pogo stick over a cornice into the promised land of short fat jeep trails.

Trying to be a show-off means that I have a big hole in the back of my left ankle that the miracles of Veterinary "hot spot" med is mending at a phenom rate.

Day hiking is muy differente than carrying a 30+ pound pack.

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bill-e-g
Day hiking is muy differente than carrying a 30+ pound pack.

No used food, Sherlock?

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eeek

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bill-e-g
Day hiking is muy differente than carrying a 30+ pound pack.

No used food, Sherlock?

I'm no Sherlock so I don't know what this comment is about.

I already said "Don't worry about what anyone else out there is doing. Do what you enjoy.".

I was just pointing out what I see all too often.
"I can dayhike N number of miles. So I can backpack N number of miles. No problem."

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Bee

Trying to be a show-off means that I have a big hole in the back of my left ankle that the miracles of Veterinary "hot spot" med is mending at a phenom rate.

You must be putting "Bag Balm" on it then. The miracle in a green can http://www.bagbalm.com/

---

The cure for a fallacious argument is a better argument, not the suppression of ideas.
-- Carl Sagan



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/29/2009 08:38AM by Frank Furter.

Dale,

I cound not care less what other people do. Not my style. I just tried to jam too many miles into my plan, especially the first day backpacking.

Jim

I like to say, "It's not just a hike, it's an adventure".. I just got a new sleeping bag. On my recent trip I took my regular large size bag with pillow and heavy duty dry bag, total of 8lbs. I got a Big Agnes sleeping bag. It is not a mummy bag but saves weight by not putting insulation in the bottom of the bag. Instead you put the sleeping pad into the bag. This allows the bag to be bigger but still light weight and the pad makes up for no bottom insulation. On top of that the pad weighs 24oz and replaces my 6lb pad. I didn't save any weight on my pack but the new one is much more comfortable and I hope will make it much easier to carry the weight. I am glad that it didn't defeat you. Spend some time this year hiking with your pack and you will be ready for a great trip next year. I am already planning my trip to Waterwheel Falls for next year. I am 50 and just finished my first overnight trip. 40+ lbs on an old cheap external frame pack was not fun. I am so glad I declined the extra day hike down to Waterwheels Falls from Glen Aulin High Sierra Camp. My feet are still a little sore.

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traildad
Instead you put the sleeping pad into the bag.

Sound like a good idea, probably reduces the pad getting away in the middle of the night.

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40+ lbs on an old cheap external frame pack was not fun.

In the Boy Scouts during the 60's, we used wooden frames and a large tarp. All the gear was put in the middle of the tarp and the sides folded inward to create a "square burrito". This burrito was tied to the wooden frame using a "diamond hitch" or "spider hitch" (ropes met in the middle of the pack and extended to 4,6,or 8 points on the wooden frame. Overall not a bad arrangement, except hard to get to gear without taking the whole system apart. Ahhh, the memories.

---

The cure for a fallacious argument is a better argument, not the suppression of ideas.
-- Carl Sagan