Re: Firefall

No gas money to make it this year

I trust you will post photos...nice sunny warm weather this go around

Quote
Vince
No gas money to make it this year

What was the excuse last year?

Quick, what are the good days?

---

Old Dude

TV before stupid ED, diaper, and other TMI ads.

Disclosure: I tuned in to the Winter Olympics a half-hour early, suffered through all the above.

Sorry, but I'm a real underachiever when it comes to TV.

And Nodar was one of us, understanding the risks, but pushing on.

Last year was clouds, Ask Bee. This year...no gas money.

Quote
Vince
Last year was clouds, Ask Bee. This year...no gas money.

I asked why you didn't show up, not why it wasn't good.

Again when are the good days?

---

Old Dude

Was there. Camped out. No sun, no eeek either

Quote
Vince
no eeek either

I didn't say I was going to be there. You did.

right now.

http://forresthickman.com/feb2008.html

I finally had to find out for myself. Damn. The last two weeks of February it seems. I'm supposing that there is a "best" day in there where the sun shines on the most of the fall but this day might not be in the middle of the two weeks. Sometime last year someone posted a site that displayed the sunshine on the fall as the two weeks progressed. Ring any bells? Here: http://www.michaelfrye.com/articles/horsetail.html
Anyway I'm going to go and try to get some video.

---

Old Dude



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/13/2010 10:53AM by mrcondron.

yeah, each day is a guessing game... sun, clouds, fog etc, they all play a part, and ya never know which day will be the one.

I asked the author of the article if he could give a date for the best sun angle day this year. (I get solstice headaches) No assurances everything will come together that day but I think it's a good day to be there. There should be plenty of water this year and it looks like there will be clear skies from the SJ valley right up into Yosemite Valley starting Wednesday the 17th and lasting at least a few days. This may turn out to be a banner year.

---

Old Dude



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/13/2010 11:02AM by mrcondron.

If it's going to be real clear, can you see it from Turlock?

Nah. Just HD and the top of El Cap.

---

Old Dude

Quote
mrcondron
This may turn out to be a banner year.

Yadda, yadda, yadda....Maybe I will go, but only if "Firefarce" is the last thing on a healthy list of other interesting things to do that day!

B

Quote
Bee

Quote
mrcondron
This may turn out to be a banner year.

Yadda, yadda, yadda....Maybe I will go, but only if "Firefarce" is the last thing on a healthy list of other interesting things to do that day!

B

Firefarce is right. We were there 20th of Feb. last year. Typical gorgeous Winter day in the Sierra.
And kaboom... clouds roll in just when the firefart is suppose to go.

Too much of a crapper shoot. Anybody there this Sat or Sun night probably had a no show also. (we were at Yosemite Pt.)

I'm going Thursday but just for the day. Everything is supposed to be clear to the coast.

---

Old Dude

Quote
mrcondron
I'm going Thursday but just for the day. Everything is supposed to be clear to the coast.

Good luck. You will need it.
Maybe can try again Sunday night...

---

Firefart!!!!!

Where is the best spot in Yosemite to see this event and, has anyone had success in August (6 months from Feb, sun should be in the same position) as well?

---

The cure for a fallacious argument is a better argument, not the suppression of ideas.
-- Carl Sagan

Definitive site on photographing the fall:

http://www.michaelfrye.com (Front Page of site)

http://www.michaelfrye.com/landscape-photography-blog/2010/02/01/its-that-time-of-year-again/ (Horsetail Fall page)

---

Old Dude

Quote
Frank Furter
Where is the best spot in Yosemite to see this event and, has anyone had success in August (6 months from Feb, sun should be in the same position) as well?

August? You're missing a key ingredient.... water.

---

Quote
chick-on

Quote
Frank Furter
Where is the best spot in Yosemite to see this event and, has anyone had success in August (6 months from Feb, sun should be in the same position) as well?

August? You're missing a key ingredient.... water.

Maybe we can petition the NPS to turn the spigot back on.
(The sun would also not be in the proper position in August, anyway. It would be in the latter part of October, approx. 60 days before the winter solstice since the February "opportunity" is approx. 60 days after the winter solstice.)

i'm going to try to go there wednesday myself. driving up there only for a possible shot of the falls.

I was there today, camped out with the rest of the photogs. Conditions seemed favorable. Good amount of water, clear skies, and a lot of anticipation. But it was a no show.

There was a lot of fog type stuff over in the west near the coast today. It probably blocked the sun even though there was clear skies at the valley. Hopefully Thursday will be clear all the way out to sea.

---

Old Dude

Fresno Bee photographer got it. Front page.

http://fresnobeehive.com/photos/2010/02/17/fire-on-high.html

I sent Bee a copy for her to post...



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/17/2010 08:58AM by wagga.

WOW! That's nice.

Where was that taken from? The angle is different from what I've see before. top of Eagle peak?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/17/2010 09:47AM by qumqats.

Nice pic of the firefall a couple posts above. Lucky shot.

The sun angle only occurs in Feb because of the angle of the earth's axis of rotation, which is not pointing toward the sun during the winter solstice (thus, during august there would never be a firefall even if there were water falling, which there isn't).

Quote
Vince
The sun angle only occurs in Feb because of the angle of the earth's axis of rotation, which is not pointing toward the sun during the winter solstice (thus, during august there would never be a firefall even if there were water falling, which there isn't).

Sorry, Vince. The sun angle occurs twice per year. The only angles that occur once are the solstice angles.

Quote
eeek

Quote
Vince
The sun angle only occurs in Feb because of the angle of the earth's axis of rotation, which is not pointing toward the sun during the winter solstice (thus, during august there would never be a firefall even if there were water falling, which there isn't).

Sorry, Vince. The sun angle occurs twice per year. The only angles that occur once are the solstice angles.

See the following two links:
http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/eclip.html#c2
http://www.dur.ac.uk/john.lucey/users/solar_year.html

Note especially the graph of Declination vs. Right Ascension shown in the third figure of the second link. Except for the two solstices, there are two days during the year at which the sun appears at the same angle with respect to the earth's equator. These days are symmetrical with respect to their deviation from the solstices. The approximately +60 days from the Winter Solstice to the February Firefall period has its mirror image in the -60 days in October where the sun appears at the same angle.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/19/2010 07:35AM by szalkowski.

No, eeeek, the sun angle that occurs to light the Firefall occurs only ONCE per year.

Quote
Vince
No, eeeek, the sun angle that occurs to light the Firefall occurs only ONCE per year.

Sure it does, VD. Pat...pat...

The sun shines there twice a year, 60 days or so after each of the two solstices. In the period after the summer solstice there is no water to go over the fall therefore no fire fall effect.

---

Old Dude

Quote
mrcondron
In the period after the summer solstice there is no water to go over the fall therefore no fire fall effect.

There might have been some water this year. We had a wet fall and the angle should be right sometime in October.

"It could happen."
Judy Tenuta

---

Old Dude

Those posting on this forum who get out regularly to ski or snowshoe should not be exhibiting signs of cabin fever evident in this thread.

Ever notice the earliest sunset and the latest sunrise have nothing to do with the winter solstice?

Quote
Vince
Ever notice the earliest sunset and the latest sunrise have nothing to do with the winter solstice?

Actually, they do. It is just that they are not coincident with it.

Read the following to understand why:
http://www.larry.denenberg.com/earliest-sunset.html

Also see:
<http://www.astro.uu.nl/~strous/AA/en/antwoorden/zonpositie.html#14_2>;

Quote
Vince
Ever notice the earliest sunset and the latest sunrise have nothing to do with the winter solstice?

What makes you think that is relevant?

Oh, for Old Tyme's Sake

Quote
Vince
Oh, for Old Tyme's Sake

Cool vid. GP via mule? Only on a special occasion such as Huel Howser, of did they used to do this regularly?

Quote
hotrod4x5

Cool vid. GP via mule? Only on a special occasion such as Huel Howser, of did they used to do this regularly?

Someone can correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure pack animals (horses, mules) are still allowed on the Four Mile Trail. It's just not as popular as it once was.

Quote
plawrence

Quote
hotrod4x5

Cool vid. GP via mule? Only on a special occasion such as Huel Howser, of did they used to do this regularly?

Someone can correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure pack animals (horses, mules) are still allowed on the Four Mile Trail. It's just not as popular as it once was.

Horses are not permitted off the valley floor without a guide... so that probably eliminates 99.99% of horse riders going up ...

---

Quote
chick-on

Quote
plawrence

Quote
hotrod4x5

Cool vid. GP via mule? Only on a special occasion such as Huel Howser, of did they used to do this regularly?

Someone can correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure pack animals (horses, mules) are still allowed on the Four Mile Trail. It's just not as popular as it once was.

Horses are not permitted off the valley floor without a guide... so that probably eliminates 99.99% of horse riders going up ...

I didn't find any such restrictions listed on the horseback riding and stock use regulations webpage of Yosemite's official website:

http://www.nps.gov/yose/planyourvisit/stock.htm

---

OK. I was just going by what the signs at the Trailheads actually say.
The Yosemite Falls trail is actually relatively new ... and it says 'no horses without guides'.
The 4 Mile TH sign is very old sign... and it says the same thing.
Without a doubt they had guided trips up those trails in the past... now they only
have guided trips to Clarks Pt. and Mirror Lake.
So probably they made a new Yose Falls trail and copied it ... but shouldn't have put those
words on it... and you can go up 4 Mile and Yose Falls with a horse..
but with the amount of foot traffic on those trails... Anyone that does it.. probably only
does it once and says never again.
Horse riders probably call Yosemite and they probably greatly discourage valley horse use.
Give them a call and ask.

---

Everytime we go to Yosemite my youngest son fondly(?) remembers our Mirror Lake Horse trip and the horse that bit him on the leg. Even at the time, it was pretty funny for all of us except maybe the youngest son.

I hiked the Yosemite Falls trail last March and understood the sign to refer to rental horses. Didn't parse it too closely, since I don't have a horse, but...

The Snow Creek Falls trail also has the same wording.. and according to the website...
horses are no longer allowed up that trail. Why? beats me. Of the 3 (YF, 4M, and SC) Snow
in-doob-a-dably is the least used.

Anywho: Here's the signs:




Snow Creek:

---

Have to remember what I saw that made me think the reference was to rented horses only, as the sign would seem otherwise clear.

However, the NPS website says "private stock" are allowed, though not recommended, on the Yosemite Falls trail. Snow Creek Trail is listed as prohibited.

Horse Rules

Maybe the question that needs to be ask is "What qualifies someone to be a guide?" in this context. Someone who is familiar with the trail? Someone who has filled out an official "guide permit" if there is one? Is there any official qualification to be considered a "Guide" that's able to lead horses up one of these trails?

The Park Service shouldn't confuse people like this – stating one thing on their website and then stating something different on their trail signs.

---

I stand by what I said. It's just old wording on old signs or reproduced signs.
There are a number of signs that are not entirely correct... or some turkey
think it's a good idea to call The Tuolumne Meadows High Sierra Camp a Lodge
to fool the average bird.

Here's 1920 Rules and Regs portion with horse trips:
http://www.nps.gov/history/history/online_books/brochures/1920/yose/sec7.htm

---

Quote
chick-on
Horses are not permitted off the valley floor without a guide... so that probably eliminates 99.99% of horse riders going up ...

All horses or just the rentals?

Quote
eeek

Quote
chick-on
Horses are not permitted off the valley floor without a guide... so that probably eliminates 99.99% of horse riders going up ...

All horses or just the rentals?

You need not worry. You can bring up your horse anytime.

---

I heard a rumor that Horsetail is flowing and tomorrow's forecast looks good. And for Vincey: http://blog.andrewkee.com/2010/02/23/photographing-yosemites-horsetail-falls/

I can only say that it certainly wasn't flowing on Friday...
Got a shot of where the recent rockfall was though...

Quote
bill-e-g
I can only say that it certainly wasn't flowing on Friday...

It has rained since then.

Quote
eeek

Quote
bill-e-g
I can only say that it certainly wasn't flowing on Friday...

It has rained since then.

Yes it has.


Can you tell it to please not rain next weekend?

Quote
bill-e-g
Can you tell it to please not rain next weekend?

Sorry:

LONGER RANGE MODELS SHOW A RETURN OF THE WET WEATHER TOWARD FRIDAY AS ANOTHER STRONG TROF MOVES INTO THE REGION. WILL KEEP A MENTION OF POSSIBLE PRECIP FROM FRIDAY MORNING INTO NEXT WEEKEND. WHILE MODEL UNCERTAINTY EXIST FOR THE NEXT STORM...THE UNCERTAINTY BETWEEN THE GFS AND ECMWF IS ONLY BY HOURS. THEREFORE...WILL START THE PRECIP FRIDAY MORNING...BUT NOT TERMINATE IT UNTIL LATER ON SATURDAY.

Wow, its good to see that Huel Howser was a douche 20 years ago.

"Were the bears friendly?"

Quote
oakroscoe
Wow, its good to see that Huel Howser was a douche 20 years ago.

"Were the bears friendly?"

He's asking questions, somewhat, for the lowest common denominator. There are a LOT of people in this world who know nothing about wild animals. Many have never been out of the city.

Quote
hotrod4x5

Quote
oakroscoe
Wow, its good to see that Huel Howser was a douche 20 years ago.

"Were the bears friendly?"

He's asking questions, somewhat, for the lowest common denominator. There are a LOT of people in this world who know nothing about wild animals. Many have never been out of the city.

Ol' Huell is the benchmark for the LCD.

Quote
hotrod4x5
He's asking questions, somewhat, for the lowest common denominator.

Himself?

Excerpted from "One Hundred Years in Yosemite" by Carl P. Russell:
http://www.yosemite.ca.us/library/one_hundred_years_in_yosemite/



It is believed that the first firefall from Glacier Point was the work of James McCauley in 1871 or 1872. He sold his trail to the state. His Mountain House was operated on a lease basis from the commissioners. One of his visitors of the early ’eighties was Derrick Dodd, who concocted something of a classic in the way of Glacier Point stories. It is too good to pass into oblivion.

DERRICK DODD’S TOUGH STORY
As a part of the usual programme, we experimented as to the time taken by different objects in reaching the bottom of the cliff. An ordinary stone tossed over remained in sight an incredibly long time, but finally vanished somewhere about the middle distance. A handkerchief with a stone tied in the corner, was visible perhaps a thousand feet deeper; but even an empty box, watched by a field-glass, could not be traced to its concussion with the Valley floor. Finally, the landlord appeared on the scene, carrying an antique hen under his arm. This, in spite of the terrified ejaculations and entreaties of the ladies, he deliberately threw over the cliff’s edge. A rooster might have gone thus to his doom in stoic silence, but the sex of this unfortunate bird asserted itself the moment it started on its awful journey into space. With an ear-piercing cackle that gradually grew fainter as it fell, the poor creature shot downward; now beating the air with ineffectual wings, and now frantically clawing at the very wind, that slanted her first this way and then that: thus the hapless fowl shot down, down, until it became a mere fluff of feathers no larger than a quail. Then it dwindled to a wren’s size, disappeared, then again dotted the sight a moment as a pin’s point, and then—it was gone!

After drawing a long breath all round, the women folks pitched into the hen’s owner with redoubled zest. But the genial McCauley shook his head knowingly, and replied:

“Don’t be alarmed about that chicken, ladies. She’s used to it. She goes over that cliff every day during the season.”

And, sure enough, on our road back we met the old hen about half up the trail, calmly picking her way home!

It should have stayed in oblivion...

---

Quote
chick-on
It should have stayed in oblivion...

What will the chikin do if bill-e-g discovers that real chickens don't need to be carried everywhere?
(Ambulatorily Yours)
The Marmots

Gad! I haven't seen that story in print in years, and I've often wondered just how it would be received during these uber-PC days. Nice to see the Yosemite history of olden days show up once in a while, however.

One of chick-ons ancestors...