Re: Cherry Creek Canyon

I'm stuck at home this weekend... so I annotated a few photos from
Cherry Creek Canyon that we did last weekend.
The granite there is incredible and IMO the canyon is classic
Yosemite and should be contained in the park. Why it isn't baffles me.
I guess it's good that it's at least in the Emigrant and no trails are
really in there so the horse peeps stay clear afaik.
Since it's all xcountry in the canyon it's not travelled much... we
saw about 5 people in total in it. Even at that I was surprised
since we parked at the "horse trailer" parking and was the
only car there on Fri and on Sunday when we left.
Not a simple trek so research it some before attempting.

Anyway, here's some photos... bearing in mind they never due it justice:

http://picasaweb.google.com/yosemite.chick.on/Cherry

If you search "Cherry Creek Canyon" on youtube... you'll find some
vids of people kayaking it. Incredible.

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bill-e-g
The granite there is incredible and IMO the canyon is classic
Yosemite and should be contained in the park. Why it isn't baffles me.

Probably has something to do with water rights. Sigh.

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eeek

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bill-e-g
The granite there is incredible and IMO the canyon is classic
Yosemite and should be contained in the park. Why it isn't baffles me.

Probably has something to do with water rights. Sigh.

Sweet photos. Thanks.
My first impression was that the creek resembled Yosemite Creek upstream from the falls.
As a young lad, I went on a fishing trip to Cherry Lake (Reservoir) in the late 50's and recall a lot of exposed gravel and dirt roads. Hopefully a lot of that was related to the dam construction. We did not hike up the feeding creeks.

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The cure for a fallacious argument is a better argument, not the suppression of ideas.
-- Carl Sagan

Fabulous trip. Thanks for sharing the photos. That is some incredible glacial polish.

The first good set of images I have yet seen from that route, thanks. Very informative. Have marked up the topo over many years hoping to go in their some time. Love that glaciated granite geology especially on large streams. Of course cannot go to far up until water levels drop in mid summer just as BS noted in his WP description of that route.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/02/2010 10:32PM by DavidSenesac.

Thanks.

Actually I'm fairly certain that the route can be done at any time. And I definitely want to go back at both
very low water and very early high water. Hopefully later this fall and then early next year.
It's just that good.
The place where we decided to cross the creek is a spot that we ran into three people coming down the
canyon and we saw them on cliff face. They came down too soon and got stymied. We were long gone
in no time but I have a picture of them up to their neck in water (we crossed on a sand bar). If we would have
gone up and around like they did we would have never had to cross the creek and I feel that doing it
at any time of the year would be fine. Mike and I have talked about this too.
Ben Schifrin's "Emigrant Wilderness" used to come with a map (maybe it still does) that showed the route
very well. That is what I used to determine the route we took.
His intro to the hike:
" Without a doubt the finest trek within the bounds of Emigrant Wilderness, the rugged traverse of Cherry
Creek Canyon can be summed up in one word - Granite".

If/when I go again I will post more info.

bill-e-g,

Cherry Creek Canyon/Kibbie Ridge looks like a fantastic trip. Sigh, not enough years for all the trips I would like to take but this one looks terrific for a lower altitude option compared to Tuolumne Meadows departures.

I understand the permit for Cherry Creek must be obtained from the Groveland Ranger District Office 8 miles east of Groveland on Rt. 120 no later than 24-hours in advance of trip. For future reference do you know their operating hours and/or phone number? Apparently they don't have any trail quotas, just a limit on number of people per permit.

The permit cannot be picked up any earlier than 24 hours in advance.

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Old Dude

You can get it from Groveland Ranger Station or from a ranger station in Sonora.
I think I was asleep the one time we got a permit from Sonora.
(the road in to Cherry Lake from 120 is less painful IMO).

There is NO Quota for Kibbie RIDGE. If you want to go to Kibbie Lake or Lake Eleanor there is.
They are open from 8am to 5pm Mon-Sat. (not sure about Sunday).
The number is (209)962-7825
For Kibbie Lake you can call the day ahead. In the summer it seems to fill up regularily.
I've gone Kibbie Ridge twice this year and when we called or arrived the lady
said Kibbie Lake was full.

Kibbie Ridge trail has not been maintained in years. You have to walk over a large amount of
deadfall currently. This baffles me to no end since last year a crew literally SWEPT the
pine needles off the trail up to the first switchback. Go figure.
Anyway, I mention this b/c it's funny and I've heard people belly-ache about the trail.

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bill-e-g

The place where we decided to cross the creek is a spot that we ran into three people coming down the
canyon and we saw them on cliff face. They came down too soon and got stymied. We were long gone
in no time but I have a picture of them up to their neck in water (we crossed on a sand bar). If we would have
gone up and around like they did we would have never had to cross the creek and I feel that doing it
at any time of the year would be fine.

If this is the place I'm thinking of, one "dry" route involves climbing (descending) a crack that goes up (down) the cliff--near the top of this crack is a large chockstone you go under. The two times I've done Cherry Creek canyon were during high water--I'm not sure that crossing the creek on the sandbar would have been an option--at least a safe option.

Interestingly, Schiffrin's description says something about following following a line of trees to just beyond a pool. There is a tree-lined ledge that almost works (perhaps where the group you describe got hung up...?), but you end up above the pool, just to the left of this picture: http://picasaweb.google.com/yosemite.chick.on/Cherry#5498045923727253602. The slab where this ledge ends seems just a bit too steep to traverse above the pool, while the pool itself is deep. I wonder if when Schiffrin did the route the water was either lower, or the pool hadn't been scoured out as much as it is presently.

(The only other areas where high water could be a concern that I've experienced: 1) below Lord Meadow near Mile 24, where the granite on the south side gets a bit steep as you traverse above the creek and 2) at the final pool at Mile 16, which can get deep enough to flood the sandy beach in this area, requiring some wading to get around the pool.)

Hmm... Mile 16... we were far away from the river there....

Also, the ledge is to the right in that picture. (we went up the river)

There a few more I put up here with regards to that one spot:
(yes, we hit it at a good time and could cross the creek/river... a week or so earlier... and
maybe not so fun... we saw those people the troubles they were having and said..
uh... let's just cross.. def. won't be a problem getting back across up stream).

http://picasaweb.google.com/yosemite.chick.on/Cherry#5501001578084358578
(click forward for 4 photos)

The cliff in question is located below Mile 19 on this map:
http://picasaweb.google.com/yosemite.chick.on/Cherry#5500216444857562290

(you can use the zoom tool to get a closer look)

Anyway, I def. wanna go back very late in the year and try coming down the river in the riverbed
and see how it goes. At least get down to dome 6806 and hopefully thru part of
the Cherry Bomb Gorge.

Anyone come into the canyon a different way?

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bill-e-g
(yes, we hit it at a good time and could cross the creek/river... a week or so earlier... and
maybe not so fun... we saw those people the troubles they were having and said..
uh... let's just cross.. def. won't be a problem getting back across up stream).

http://picasaweb.google.com/yosemite.chick.on/Cherry#5501001578084358578
(click forward for 4 photos)

When we came down the canyon, we negotiated that part the same place those people did, except we went a few yards further before dropping down to creek level, to avoid having to swim through that last little pool. The water had been low enough that it was a stagnant pond and we certainly didn't want to swim it if we could avoid it. That rock scramble to get down to creek level was one of two truly frightening moments of the trip. I don't know if crossing to the other side to avoid this would work out in high water, so I'm just going to bring some climbing rope next time to make that scramble a little less scary. I want to do this with my brother next fall after the spillway gate closes (less people), but he's on one leg with crutches, so that long rock garden in mid-to-upper-canyon, and some of those descents, might take some time. He did remarkably well on the Donner Summit -> Paradise Lake -> Warren Lake -> Coon Canyon loop last summer so I think he's ready for CCC.

-Jeff

Hi. Didn't find the time to get back up there this year... so many places... so little time...

Would like to also hit it at the highest water flow... but may go before they open the
gate next year to avoid anyone. We'll see. That'd involve snow shoeing over Styx on
the way back which is fun.

Have fun

Awesome pics! Looks like fun. I know a crazy guy that has done most of Cherry creek in a kayak when the water is high in the spring. Definitely for experts only. A fall stroll seems the way to go and it is on my to do list - especially after seeing these pictures. Gotta love all that granite!

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apeman45
Awesome pics! Looks like fun. I know a crazy guy that has done most of Cherry creek in a kayak when the water is high in the spring. Definitely for experts only. A fall stroll seems the way to go and it is on my to do list - especially after seeing these pictures. Gotta love all that granite!

Just to be 100% clear, those picts were taken July 2010.

The gate across the dam opens right around April 15th and closes right around Sept. 15th
so plan accordingly. It's about 5 miles (if u go trail instead of road) and about 1200 ft. climb to Shingle Springs.
(I'm mentioning this b/c of the fall stroll comment)

We went up canyon, and it's the way I'll go again b/c I like to be staring up at the river flowing towards me
whenever possible rather than the other way around. Also, since only been in the canyon once wasn't
sure when the wifey would say no mas. Her criteria on this trip was < 10 miles per day and < 1000 ft.
gain. Mileage for the trip was about, say 27-30 (I still have no idea how the heck people can say
'i did 387 miles this year' since I can't and don't figure out wth a single trip is)... anyway, let's just
say I fudged it quite a bit to convince her the < 1000 ft. per day.

Have fun

We dooz a good portion of the Canyon this weekend.
Water level high but not scary high like The Tuolumne.
At some point the water level was a good 5 ft. higher.
Unfortunately didn't take a picture of the same log last time
so not sure if that was a recent event. Sorta looked like it
due to the precariously perched drift wood on said log.
Anyway, we go up to what I consider one of, if not the finest
display of Glacial Action we have ever seen and then back down.

Ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-Cherryick-on Bomb:


Glacial Polish at it's best:


Brought a rope for the one crux spot in the trip. Most helpful
in lowering pack. We brought a 40ft. rope which was more than
long enough.

After getting out we drove down to Eleanor and checked out the gauge
station to finally mark off that little trail.

O. It snowed/hailed and rained some. For the umpteenth time... 30% = 100%
chance o rain/snow. One other comment... there were NO cars
at either Shingle or further below when we got there Sat. morning.
Go figure

Have fun. We do.

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I thought it seemed crowded in Cherry Creek Canyon this weekend... I saw a few random footprints in the snow below the "chockstone" cliff (below the grove Schiffrin mentions at Mile 19), then more prints in the snowfields north of dome 6458. Oh, and there was a blue tent just below Cherry Bomb Gorge (former Camp Flintstone area) Saturday afternoon--yours? Odd thing: I saw no chicken tracks anywhere... Camp Flintstone also was no more--the ranger in the Groveland office told me the area had been restored.

I made it as far as the area east of dome 6606', just before the Schiffrin route drops back into Cherry (if heading upstream).

Anyway, pictures and a video of a bear swimming across Cherry:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AiIQTR1KNOg

https://picasaweb.google.com/basilbop/CherryCreekCanyon11?feat=directlink

There was one couple camped at the top of the cliffs where Snow Canyon Creek drops into the lower pool when I was heading out, and they said they had seen three other backpackers.

Thanks for posting the photos, and for the video of the bear crossing Cherry Creek. Cool.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/01/2011 10:05AM by plawrence.

Aw crap! Dammit.
I saw you in the morning and just left you alone. Now I'm kicking myself.
I saw you were alone so assumed you didn't want to be bothered.
Yes that was my tent. Went in Sat. and hiked up the second dome in pict. above and
back down to tent. Threw tent in at the last moment due to prob. precip.
and wind. I put link below but here it is again of my pix:
https://picasaweb.google.com/yosemite.chick.on/CherryCreekCanyon
Hiked out Sunday. (original plan was go up to Mercur Lake... but wifey
said to be home on Sunday so left the snowshoes in the car and had
a leisurely trip for once instead)
I was surprised to see "so many" people in there too. And really surprised
to see a tent near me. I stayed completely away from the river on the way back
to avoid anyone else and do some exploring.
The Flintstone area is really nice now. Not all screwed up imo anymore.
In total I saw you and the 3 other backpackers by the crux location.
I reread this thread again after getting back and will have to try the entire
chockstone route next time.
Thanks

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I too assumed that a solo hiker in Cherry Creek Canyon was looking for solitude, so I tried to keep a decent distance from your camp (even if I did set up out in the open--I tend to like sites with views...) I will admit in the back of my mind, I was wondering who I knew that be crazy enough to be doing Cherry, and you were at the top of a very short list :-)

I poked around a bit around "chockstone" crux cliff looking for other options, but it seems to be all near-vertical walls--with beautiful waterfalls--to the south. Some routes that looked possible on Google Earth didn't look so promising up close after all, and all would require climbing much higher... In retrospect, the "chockstone" crack looks steep only because you see it head-on, and the worst part is at the bottom where the organic material makes the rock slippery.

Yeah, I'm all about the view too so totally understand, usually out in the open so can
see the stars w/o a tent. It was windy and raining when I got to Flintstone so I ended up just
finding a location out of the wind nested next to some small trees. Then went on dayhike up canyon.
Next morning I saw your pyramid over yonder and left pretty early. You looked like you
were playing around with GPS type device so I slithered around and exited.
Was gonna pop over and ask about the pyramid but figured I'd just leave you in peace.
As for the crux spot I went all the way up the slot next to the chockstone route
having to throw my pack up in a couple of spots.
I said more of what I did here along with a link to a set of pix detailing the route:
http://yosemitenews.info/forum/read.php?3,27875,37421#msg-37421
(sometimes the "reply" etc. get lost in the thread)
Anyway, I'm sure you enjoyed yourself. Looking at your pix (we took nearly the same photos),
looks like weatherman was spot on. Monday looked just gorgeous.
Been looking at the East Fork now... done that one? Only been up a very short way beyond
the confluence myself. (and only been in the canyon 3 times)

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basilbop
Odd thing: I saw no chicken tracks anywhere...

My pack don't weigh 100 pounds like some peeps in Glacier NP.
I'm really lights on my feets. Don't like to be tracked.

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chick-on

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basilbop
Odd thing: I saw no chicken tracks anywhere...

My pack don't weigh 100 pounds like some peeps in Glacier NP.
I'm really lights on my feets. Don't like to be tracked.

Having seen Chick-on's feet, I'm more inclined to believe that his tracks look like this:

Here's Jeff's blog entry re. CCC, good stuff:

http://www.theslogblog.com/2009/11/emigrant-wilderness-cherry-creek-canyon.html

He took a different route around Cherry Bomb that looks cool too.
The whole canyon is spectacular though.

One last note... for the snake lubbers out there. Rattlers live in the canyon... I got buzzed so I know...

Have fun

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bill-e-g
One last note... for the snake lubbers out there. Rattlers live in the canyon... I got buzzed so I know...

Overflow from the Pate Valley?

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bill-e-g


One last note... for the snake lubbers out there. Rattlers live in the canyon... I got buzzed so I know...

Have fun

I've always seen lots of snakes in that Canyon. There always seems to be a large nest of them after you pass Flintstone camp and go up the granite next to that boggy/marshy area.

I knew that narrow glaciated ravine section was going to look spectacular and now I know. Very impressed. By mid June ought to be more wildflowers out on the gruss flats so I am comtemplating an adventure.

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DavidSenesac
I knew that narrow glaciated ravine section was going to look spectacular and now I know. Very impressed. By mid June ought to be more wildflowers out on the gruss flats so I am comtemplating an adventure.

This canyon is easly now one of my favorites. The granite cliffs and glacial evidence are just amazing.
I put a few more here:
https://picasaweb.google.com/yosemite.chick.on/CherryCreekCanyon

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chick-on
This canyon is easly now one of my favorites.

Can mere mortals get to it?

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eeek

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chick-on
This canyon is easly now one of my favorites.

Can mere mortals get to it?

Those with wings.

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Old Dude

Ben Schifren in his 1990 WP book, "This route is not for the inexperienced, however. Frequent rock scrambling and taxing route finding problems make Cherry Creek Canyon a world accessible only to the mountain-wise explorer, and sometimes high water will hamper even the most resourceful of these."

Certainly a dangerous place for a solo explorer without a rope and knowledge of how to use it. Just looking at the topo carefully shows numerous possible points where one may need to negotiate possible steep friction slabs. The more pack weight on one's back, the more that can get rather scary as downclimbing slabs one usually has nothing to grab as it all has to be keen balance over dynamic sequences of multiple steps. Step by step stopping or crawling taint an option.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/30/2011 08:12PM by DavidSenesac.

Many thanks for those great photos. I have found a buddy who will definitely do the route with me in low water....probably September. I think that the route finding will involve far fewer tough decisions when the creek is easy to cross. We'll have a rope, as well.

I figure that to do it this time of year, without having been there before, is asking for trouble. Unless you are a crazy kayaker. We passed a bunch of them going up the trail a few years ago.

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wherever
Many thanks for those great photos. I have found a buddy who will definitely do the route with me in low water....probably September. I think that the route finding will involve far fewer tough decisions when the creek is easy to cross. We'll have a rope, as well.

I figure that to do it this time of year, without having been there before, is asking for trouble. Unless you are a crazy kayaker. We passed a bunch of them going up the trail a few years ago.

Might be these guys:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_bx_Gcnrbus&feature=related

Just remember they close the gate at the dam around Sept. 15.
I doubt you will use the rope then.
You will probably just backtrack (if coming down canyon) and cross the creek if need be.
I put a number of photos of the "crux" location here:
https://picasaweb.google.com/yosemite.chick.on/CherryCreekCrux?authkey=Gv1sRgCPvYtoXh9cvJoAE
if interested. In all honesty I don't think you will find it bad at all.
The dotted lines are the "chockstone" route. The solid is the route I took.
The biggest pain imo is getting into the canyon. I have a mind to take a limb saw with me next time...
luckily it's not Manz. and it is only for maybe 1/2 mile if you go the right way.
Found a big pruner hanging on a downfall on the way out... maybe someone was telling me something...
but I left it...
As I told David next time I will try going up to Lookout Pt. and then dropping into the canyon that way.
I feel I'll be able to zig into the nicest portion quicker that way and avoid the shrub start and the crux location
entirely.
Anyway, Have fun

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I absolutely hate that green crap for the first half mile that you drop into from the Kibbie/shingle springs side. I've been half tempted to bribe one of the boats on the lake to drop me at the end of the lake and work my way up from there.

You would have had company this past weekend:

I nearly puked when I saw this sight.
In high water you won't make it up the creek on the east side. Way too steep.
One of my crazy ideas is to trail boat the lake when the gate is closed...

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chick-on
You would have had company this past weekend:

I nearly puked when I saw this sight.
In high water you won't make it up the creek on the east side. Way too steep.
One of my crazy ideas is to trail boat the lake when the gate is closed...

Yeah, Cherry Lake is definitely popular, and it gets worse as the season continues.

You'd think that you wouldn't see anyone in the Canyon, but 9 times out of 10 I always see at least one other group. I've always thought that was weird, given that there's no "official" trail and asides from catching a ride on a boat, its not super easy to get to.

Thanks for the pictures, always nice to the Canyon again!

Most of the serious brush at the beginning of the route can be avoided by holding a constant elevation and heading almost due north from the trailhead/switchback until you enter a more forested area on a steep hillside. (An old logging road starts towards the east of the switchback and heads north, which also helps a bit.) Drop down once you see the open green mossy area through the trees. There is a little brush just before and after you get to the mossy area--fallen logs can help in both places. Once on dome 5320, the worst brush is over.

The Legend:
A - Parking Spot
B - Hit this granite area and you are golden. Can avoid the "green mossy" bank route (E)
C - Brushy area
D - Open area
E - Mossy Grassy area
F - oops... suppose to be lower. this was a screwup by me last time
G - stay high and you don't have to climb back up...

Now... 1 & 2. I assume you mean 2 by the less brushy route and not 1.
I'll give 2 an attempt next time we go that way.

Thanks for all your insights.

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Yes, the route I was describing is more like #2, although perhaps not going quite as far east (I'd have to check my GPS tracklog to confirm). Also, on my return trip I followed a route below your G that was quite nice, following a bench with some very large Jeffrey Pines and only minor brush--this might be your lower red line in this section. On past trips, I've used a good ledge system to the south of the final waterfalls of Snow Canyon Creek, then traversed around the pool on Cherry Creek, where in low water there are some nice beachfront campsites. In high enough water, this traverse could be challenging, which is why I stayed high on this trip.

Thanks. I'll give that a go next time (#2). Imo almost everything north of B is pretty easy cross country
and most is just heaven. I took the G route b/c I was lazy and didn't want to drop down and
then have to climb back up thru the notch. I liked it for the views too.
Need to def. go back in super low water and see if hiking down the creek is possible...

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chick-on
Need to def. go back in super low water and see if hiking down the creek is possible...

If the creek were nearly dry the bed has many many 10-20 foot drops into pools. It looks so tempting to follow the bed but those damn dropoffs...

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Old Dude

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mrcondron

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chick-on
Need to def. go back in super low water and see if hiking down the creek is possible...

If the creek were nearly dry the bed has many many 10-20 foot drops into pools. It looks so tempting to follow the bed but those damn dropoffs...

Still want to try it. Pretty sure a number of sections can be done. Would be fun to take a day or so and explore the possibilities.
Minimal want to walk below this baby:
https://picasaweb.google.com/yosemite.chick.on/CherryCreekCanyon#5612551532379247042
And also walk thru here:
https://picasaweb.google.com/yosemite.chick.on/Cherry#5498042482757083314
And some of Cherry Bomb.
Those sections are completely avoided in the normal route.
Of course you don't want to get stuck in there. Prolly would bring a rope and a brain.




Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/01/2011 09:16PM by bill-e-g.

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bill-e-g

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mrcondron

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chick-on
Need to def. go back in super low water and see if hiking down the creek is possible...

If the creek were nearly dry the bed has many many 10-20 foot drops into pools. It looks so tempting to follow the bed but those damn dropoffs...

Still want to try it. Pretty sure a number of sections can be done. Would be fun to take a day or so and explore the possibilities.
Minimal want to walk below this baby:
https://picasaweb.google.com/yosemite.chick.on/CherryCreekCanyon#5612551532379247042
And also walk thru here:
https://picasaweb.google.com/yosemite.chick.on/Cherry#5498042482757083314
And some of Cherry Bomb.
Those sections are completely avoided in the normal route.
Of course you don't want to get stuck in there. Prolly would bring a rope and a brain.

It would be fun if it were hot then one could drop into the pools for relief. I want to go.

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Old Dude

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mrcondron
It would be fun if it were hot then one could drop into the pools for relief. I want to go.

Ok. Sept. 8th or 9th Put it on your calendar.

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chick-on

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mrcondron
It would be fun if it were hot then one could drop into the pools for relief. I want to go.

Ok. Sept. 8th or 9th Put it on your calendar.

Just after Tioga Road opens for the season?

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eeek

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chick-on

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mrcondron
It would be fun if it were hot then one could drop into the pools for relief. I want to go.

Ok. Sept. 8th or 9th Put it on your calendar.

Just after Tioga Road opens for the season?

Sept 2011 will be well into winter.

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Old Dude

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mrcondron

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eeek

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chick-on

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mrcondron
It would be fun if it were hot then one could drop into the pools for relief. I want to go.

Ok. Sept. 8th or 9th Put it on your calendar.

Just after Tioga Road opens for the season?

Sept 2011 will be well into winter.

Oh, yeah. Forgot about that.

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chick-on

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mrcondron
It would be fun if it were hot then one could drop into the pools for relief. I want to go.

Ok. Sept. 8th or 9th Put it on your calendar.

Make it the 8th. It will take me a day or two to get to Lord's Meadow for the start. I'm not keen on dropping down from Lookout Point.

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Old Dude

Just did a careful route up down total on the creek route and bill-e-g's Lookout Point route that I've also had penciled on my ragged topo for decades. I do these vertical calculations all the time for trips.

5800
5100 -660
5180 +40
5100 -80
5300 +200
5160 -140
5260 +100
5100 -160
5220 +120
5160 -60
5240 +80
5180 -60
5300 +120
5220 -80
5380 +160
5340 -40
5700 +360
5640 -60
5700 +60
-----------------------
+1240 -1340
Thus roundtrip 2580 feet up and down.

5860
6490 +630
6480 -10
6570 +90
6550 -20
6750 +200
6630 -120
7130 +500
7120 -10
7130 +10
5660 -1470
5700 +40
-------------------------
+1470 -1630
Thus roundtrip 3100 feet up and down.

So the Kibbie Ridge route is about 500 feet up and down more roundtrip. However most of it is on a trail that will tend to even the score. It does require an as yet unproven descent into the canyon. The route on the topo looks probable enough that I would make the gamble however I would not want to carry a pack on slabs any steeper because there may be much less room for error than a more common steep slope that has considerable irregular ramps, steps, and shelfs.

What makes the Lookout Point route attractive to me is the trail affords the possibility of a Thursday night hike in part way while setting up for a 3-day Fri-Sat-Sun trip. I night hike alot and these days have a powerful LED headlamp. The total distance to the 5700 foot creek elevation is about 6 miles either way. Enough that at least during early season it is not something I would be too lively about after the hiking such given my huge load. The YNP border on the Kibbie trail is 2 miles up from Shingle Springs and 2.5 miles 700 feet up on the Kibbie Ridge trail. Thus even if one has a wilderness permit that starts say on Friday, one can legally hike up to the border on Friday night. We've done that 3 times in the past going to Kibbie. So that would leave only 3.5 miles 770 feet up and 1460 down on the first day. If I rose early dawn as usual and got on the trail by say 5:30am, would be atop Lookout Point by 7am and then down to point 6202 mid canyon before 8am where I would pull my 4x5 out for some shots down canyon and be down about the teacup zone by 9am. The real crux of the route down is right near the bottom at 5800 feet. The crux zone is wide enough with a similar pitch that I would hope there is way through even if there is a small cliff. Bill-e-g can probably state there is no cliff but merely steep slabs. Would camp two nights in the sweet zone and then either return via the ridge or amuse myself on the adventure down canyon.

Although I was considering a permit for late June, it is questionable if the 3 weeks given our recent weather will be enough to thaw what is likely at least a couple feet of solid snow on the shady exposure about the steep slope at the top of the canyon. Also I had been thinking of the 3-day July 4 wekend, but am thinking if flows have dropped enough by then, kayakers will be swarming over the trail and area. So that doesn't appeal to me either. Any later and the sun will have beat down on the lower canyon flats making them less than green. So at least this year, if I go up there it would need to be low via the creek and that again means late June. If so there would not be a night hike after arriving on a Thursday because doing so crosscountry through unfamiliar brushy slopes below deep forest is a mini nightmare. Having been on the other sign of that same ridge, I can tell any that brush is spiny whitethrorn, just one step below manznita in nastyness. Best op may be the holiday if snows in the forest below Styx Pass linger and flows remain too high for kayakers keeping them away. If any well experienced cross country persons have an interest, PM me. Would need to be totally independent but share the adventure as much or as little as wanted. There are of course dangers enroute and especially on the slabs by the raging creek. David



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 06/02/2011 07:08AM by DavidSenesac.

Late June you will get to Lookout Pt. without any snow, or very very very little.
Last year Mem. Day the snow started in earnest around Snow Creek Canyon on the Ridge Trail.
Full snow from there on. Would have expected pretty much the same this year.
I put some pix here of Lookout Route:
https://picasaweb.google.com/yosemite.chick.on/LookoutPtRoute?authkey=Gv1sRgCJbU7tuFjbqoTA#
Take a peak. Abuse at your own risk.
The thing about that route is that even though it may be steep I'm fairly certain that a
large portion is in older growth pine forest. So working your way down pines is fun compared
to trying to bust thru shrub. It "appears" fairly simple from my looking at it.
As for permit, Kibbie Ridge is not under quota so you can just call and tell them Kibbie Ridge
and tell them you are going in today. And hike as far as you like in the dark..
we have done that many times both to Kibbie Lake and up Kibbie Ridge.
Post if you go... We don't have any definitive plans yet... Usually just play it by ear.
Many times deciding at last minute... or even while driving there... was gonna head into
Ansel Adams last weekend but decided didn't really want to hike for miles on Mammoth Pool Rd.
Anyway, have fun

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There are several reports of the Lookout Point route that suggest it can be a bushwhack in places and that it's easier when snow is in the gully. As a data point, I have my time as being just at 5 hours from the switchback parking lot to Camp Flintstone, including two leisurely breaks and some exploring around, but I also had some familiarity with the route already. (I'm sure bill-e-g flew up the canyon in less time, but also had help in the flying department... there had to be flying involved since I didn't see any tracks...) There are also numerous places to camp "close in" along the canyon route, starting near where Snow Canyon Creek falls into Cherry Creek--but it probably helps to be familiar with this section of the route if doing it as an evening/night hike. I know some people prefer "upper" Cherry Creek Canyon, where it's mostly open granite, but for those who like trees (there are many large Jeffrey Pine, Sugar Pine, and Incense Cedars along the route), relaxing pools, sandy beaches, and waterfalls, the lower canyon can be a treat.

The canyon below Flintstone is not to be missed. Different geology in some places,
incredible towering granite cliffs, numerous waterfalls, and ponds in the creek in a
number of places. If you have not been in the canyon you are missing some great features
if you skip that section. I think it's a mistake actually to skip it if you haven't seen it.
(in other words I completely agree with you)
As for time I didn't fly up. It was right around 5 hours for me too with a lot of tinkering around
including about 15 minutes trying to figure out why the heck my camera wouldn't focus.
Lots of picture taking... including sitting below the nice waterfalls enjoying some Cheetos.
And a LOT of time at the crux location since had never gone up it before.
So about the same as you... leisurely 5 hours to Flintstone from the car.
I tried to take my time and enjoy the journey since I knew I was camping at Flintstone...

It took me an 1 hr 35 minutes to get to Lookout Pt. last year during Memorial Day.
And that was with full snow from Snow Canyon swampy area and beyond.
I put 3 new photos here to give an idea how much snow was there last year.
https://picasaweb.google.com/yosemite.chick.on/Nance
Note the dates on the photos are wrong. For some reason my camera was set incorrectly.
The dates on that trip was May 29-June 1, 2010
I kinda wanna take the Lookout Route just because it looks fairly simple imo.

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Thanks Bill-e-g. Have read through some past year kayak trip reports that use various colorful terms for the creek features. So that linear creek in a joint crack section above Old Dude Dome is the Flintstones. Image 4 shows a good deal of snow in forest behind 6202. The top of the Lookout north by northwest facing route is 900 feet higher at 7100 feet, and during winter receives blow over from the other side of the ridge causing deeper snow depths. Although snow might melt right on the ridgeline where the trail is, I suspect 3 weeks might not be enough to melt it back below the knee of the canyon rim where it drops off. The forest is of course heavy on Kibbie Ridge with big pines and firs, and is likely so below the knee.

Your image shows exactly the kind of bare steep slab I was afraid of at 5800-5840 on the topo. That whole side west of the stream draining that slope is a bit questionable. Impressive to me that your map route is very close to the one I made. Something that takes alot of experience being tuned into landscapes while looking at topos. You cross the stream at 5840 while mine is at 5960 as I noticed the stream ravine gets sharper a bit lower that is always deceiving on a topo even though lines remain apart. If there is an unseen minor drop inside the stream joint crack, there is lots of brush to hang from to make minor rope drops easy. Its the snow at the canyon knee up high I am uncertain about.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/02/2011 03:54PM by DavidSenesac.

Normal year the snow to Lookout is long gone by Memorial Day.
Last year the snow at about 6700 feet was 100%.
I'd expect about the same this year. As I mentioned above I put 3 new
photos here to show the area to Lookout Pt.:
https://picasaweb.google.com/yosemite.chick.on/Nance
I'd really expect to Lookout in 3 weeks to be relatively snow free.

If you look at pict. #4 again and zoom in I don't think it's that bad.
There appears to me to be a lot of exfoliated chunks of rocks on my dotted route.

Anyway, we've beat it to death... now need to just go do it.

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