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Re: High Sierra Camps Closing

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avatar High Sierra Camps Closing
September 22, 2010 12:08PM
Merced Lake, Sunrise, and Vogelsang High Sierra Camps were are closed for the season last week and potable water is no longer available in the adjacent campgrounds. Glen Aulin water will be turned off on Tuesday, September 21 and May Lake on Thursday, September 23. The campground toilets at Merced Lake are closed for the season and May Lake campground toilets will close on Thursday, September 23.

The composting toilets at the campgrounds at Glen Aulin and Sunrise remain open all year.
avatar Re: High Sierra Camps Closing
September 22, 2010 08:09PM
Gee. Only five of them.

Old Dude
avatar Re: High Sierra Camps Closing
September 23, 2010 01:02PM
Gee. Only five of them.

The Tuolumne Meadows High Sierra Camp is already closed.
avatar Re: High Sierra Camps Closing
September 23, 2010 07:45AM
Glasses are on your forehead.

I just read that supposedly these camps were supposed to
be closed permanently as prescribed by law nearly 30 years ago.
Just shows that money talks.
Also talking to the ranger last Thurs. he said some are
proposing putting in toilets at Rancheria and along
the GCT. Rancheria is just bad nowadays.. wife pretty much
refuses to go there ever again due to the amount of toilet paper
littering the area every year.
Anyway, Vogelsang area is beautiful... the trail in... is the worst.
Poo litters the trail for nearly the entire way... really bad.
Went so far as to go Elizabeth to avoid it on the way in.
Next will probably give out of Evelyn a try... or go super early in the year.

I urge you to speak out and comment to the park directly.
(on any matters you care about... )

Re: High Sierra Camps Closing
September 23, 2010 09:02AM
They need a toilet at Rancheria! I have not been back since I saw a lady squatting behind a tree in the middle of the campsites three feet from her tent!

They also need a bear box. Every time I have been through there someone else has perpetrated an idiot bag - a bear pinata six feet off the ground from some dead tree leaning precariously, usually a foot from the roof of their tent.
avatar Re: High Sierra Camps Closing
September 23, 2010 09:25AM
Sick of arguing with you... but I'll just say I completely disagree.
Re: High Sierra Camps Closing
September 23, 2010 10:27AM
You don't have to argue with me at all.

I'm sick of watching people use established campsites the rangers tell us to use as toilets. That's sort of my problem, not yours. I solve it by hiking by the spot very quickly and going more miles the first day.

I find it interesting that you think we argue... I don't have problems with people mistaking my opinion and the expression thereof as argumentative in person, so I will guess that this is the famous not-the-same-as-talking issue that happens when one types words on a screen.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/23/2010 10:30AM by AlmostThere.
avatar Re: High Sierra Camps Closing
September 23, 2010 10:50AM
It's not Friday so maybe I'm just pissy...

The bathrooms and bear boxes are contrary to the Wilderness rules.
That's my main qualm.
Even with composting toilet it requires mules to haul out the poo.

It all comes down to people either not having a clue or being lazy.
avatar Re: High Sierra Camps Closing
September 23, 2010 11:14AM
My knowledge of people staying at the HSC's is limited. Are the folks who hike from one HSC to another (to stay overnight) considered day hikers and are therefore exempt from the trail quotas? If this is true then they are not getting the standard ranger lectures regarding backcountry regs that permit hikers get, especially regarding toiletry issues. I'm sure Delaware North would never go out of its way to educate them; all they want is their money.
avatar Re: High Sierra Camps Closing
September 23, 2010 12:29PM
Are the folks who hike from one HSC to another (to stay overnight) considered day hikers and are therefore exempt from the trail quotas?

When I stayed at Bearpaw High Sierra Camp in Sequoia we had to get a permit.
Re: High Sierra Camps Closing
September 24, 2010 08:02AM
I agree! people are hideously lazy and careless and do not give two shakes what they destroy or defecate in!

I had this exact discussion with someone just yesterday as we were planning a trip up Bubbs Creek into the SEKI high country. I lobbied heavily for a cross country segment that would take us over Milly Foot or Lucy Foot pass because the established trails in that area are bear-boxed and the campsites heavily used throughout the summer.

I just think about the water sources they are polluting (finding TP next to streams too) and hug my filter.
avatar Re: High Sierra Camps Closing
September 23, 2010 01:53PM
My understanding is that no improvements can be added but those that were in place can remain and be can be replaced or repaired like existing footbridges and those few lockers in the wilderness areas.

Lake Eleanor has two pit toilets and several food lockers installed at the north shore camping area and several food lockers at the Frog Creek ranger cabin.

The footbridges at Wapama Falls and at the outlet of Lake Vernon were replaced after the flood o' 97 but all the parts had to be dropped in or packed in. No wheels allowed not that you could drive there anyway. Quite a few other bridges were replaced at that time elsewhere in the designated wilderness.

There are water crossings that could REALLY use a footbridge but the wilderness rules prohibit "improvements".

The solution to abuse like that at Rancheria is to close it to camping. Kibbie Lake had a problem similar to Rancheria and now Kibbie has a "no camping within 1/4 mile of the lake" rule.

We have a bear can inspection at permit garnering time so I suppose it would not be that difficult to have a waste-paper-packing-out-kit inspection too. Mt Whitney requires all hikers to carry a WAG BAG. http://www.rei.com/product/662978?preferredSku=6629780013&cm_mmc=cse_froogle-_-datafeed-_-product-_-6629780013&mr:trackingCode=FD734FFE-FB85-DE11-B7F3-0019B9C043EB&mr:referralID=NA

Old Dude
Re: High Sierra Camps Closing
September 23, 2010 01:02PM
Their reservation is considered their wilderness permit so, no, they do not have to go to the wilderness center and get the schpeel which is unfortunate. It is the responsibility of both DNC and NPS to educate people who visit the camps since they are park partners, not just DNC. But, I can say from experience that even backpackers who have wilderness permits and get the talk who are not staying in these camps contribute to the problem as well. Laziness? You bet, on a daily basis I would have people pass through asking to throw their trash away at my camp. Pack it in, pack it out??? I was at least obliging to let them use our bathrooms but throw away their garbage? No. Half the time I'd just find their trash in the garbage in my bathroom's or sitting outside my front door anyway. What do you do? I am a fan of the HSC's obviously because I work there and I do believe more needs to be done to lessen their impacts. That has nothing to do with the problem at Rancheria, which has nothing to do with HSC's. Plain and simple this park is getting overused in all area's, not just the backcountry. That is why hundreds of people are in the valley this week participating in Facelift to help clean this place up since NPS can't keep up with the problem.

This is all the information DNC provides visitor's to the HSC's in terms of getting ready-


Perhaps it should also include a link for this-

avatar Re: High Sierra Camps Closing
September 24, 2010 06:21AM
I'm fully aware that the HSC guests are not the only problem. We see backpackers viloating the trail and water source setback rule for campsites all the time so it's logical to assume some are violating the toilet paper rule also. It just doesn't get noticed until later after animals have dug it up. Don't know why this is such a big deal for some folks. Laziness seems to rule a lot of people. Used toilet paper packed in odorproof bags compacts quite well in an exterior backpack pocket.
avatar Re: High Sierra Camps Closing
September 26, 2010 06:56PM
A simple solution that squeamish folks could use is to wear a latex glove for the dirty deed and then pull the glove over the product and then bag it in a zip lock bag. Double bagging would even be better.

Old Dude
Re: High Sierra Camps Closing
September 27, 2010 06:08PM
Glad for this discussion, albeit off topic. It looks like the Park Planning links are closed for comments. The HSC web information is not sufficient and it appears the reservation system is outdated and not using modern methods of Customer Service/CRM. If you are a Manager for HSC or Fresno, contact me separately on this.

I hiked Glen Aulin and Emigrant Wilderness on two separate trips in August and saw so only five or six people total over three day weekends. I'm not sure I understand the perception that too many people are in the wilderness or that overuse is happening. I don't particularly like hiking on a trail that mules use. Probably the only thing I could say negative about hiking to Glen Aulin was mule waste on the trail. Maybe trails are overused by mules and those that ride them.
I often see paper lying on the ground next to trails. I don't expect the average day hiker to know the "leave no trace" or backpacker guidelines. I also don't like signs on trails much but it may be the best way to keep problems from happening? Kind of like seeing signs reading "last gas for the next 43 miles...". Could state "last toilet for 15 miles, pack out or bury all human waste 200 feet away from trails or water sources". "no bear lockers for the next x miles, use personal bear cans for overnight storage".
Just a thought,

I really appreciate these discussions and learned a lot from you guys about HSC's in prep for my trips there.
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