May 19, 2011 04:47PM | Admin Registered: 15 years ago Posts: 17,096 |
May 19, 2011 04:57PM | Registered: 14 years ago Posts: 426 |
May 19, 2011 04:59PM | Admin Registered: 15 years ago Posts: 17,096 |
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itchbay
OK, which one of you guys posted this one:
http://sfbay.craigslist.org/sfc/for/2391095956.html (don't flag)
May 19, 2011 06:13PM | Moderator Registered: 15 years ago Posts: 1,876 |
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eeek
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itchbay
OK, which one of you guys posted this one:
http://sfbay.craigslist.org/sfc/for/2391095956.html (don't flag)
Please do flag. It's just a disguised ad.
Re: Scalping Yosemite campsites and Half Dome permits May 19, 2011 06:11PM | Registered: 14 years ago Posts: 1,128 |
May 19, 2011 06:14PM | Admin Registered: 15 years ago Posts: 17,096 |
Re: Scalping Yosemite campsites and Half Dome permits May 19, 2011 06:25PM | Registered: 14 years ago Posts: 1,128 |
Re: Scalping Yosemite campsites and Half Dome permits May 19, 2011 06:52PM | Registered: 15 years ago Posts: 118 |
May 19, 2011 07:23PM | Registered: 13 years ago Posts: 456 |
Re: Scalping Yosemite campsites and Half Dome permits May 23, 2011 11:17AM | Registered: 13 years ago Posts: 145 |
Re: Scalping Yosemite campsites and Half Dome permits May 23, 2011 12:02PM | Registered: 15 years ago Posts: 60 |
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SoCalCPA
"It kills us, because there's so little we can do about it," DeLappe said.
Re: Scalping Yosemite campsites and Half Dome permits May 23, 2011 02:06PM | Registered: 13 years ago Posts: 2 |
May 23, 2011 04:52PM | Admin Registered: 15 years ago Posts: 17,096 |
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danx
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SteveC
If Inyo National Forest can enforce the non-transferrability of Whitney permits, what is it that makes it impossible for Yosemite???
The difference is the NPS at Yosemite allows web reservations, while the USFS at Inyo NF requires fax and maybe phone--no web.
Re: Scalping Yosemite campsites and Half Dome permits May 23, 2011 11:33AM | Registered: 13 years ago Posts: 7 |
Re: Scalping Yosemite campsites and Half Dome permits May 23, 2011 11:58AM | Registered: 13 years ago Posts: 133 |
Re: Scalping Yosemite campsites and Half Dome permits May 23, 2011 02:03PM | Registered: 13 years ago Posts: 2 |
May 23, 2011 02:46PM | Registered: 15 years ago Posts: 1,374 |
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Like sports games and shows, ticket scalping is a reality. There are no federal crimes against scalping, including campsites, and hence it is not illegal.
May 23, 2011 06:57PM | Admin Registered: 15 years ago Posts: 17,096 |
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y_p_w
Technically that's true. There is no law that makes the resale of federal campground reservations illegal. There is no criminal sanction for resale of a reservation per se.
May 23, 2011 07:22PM | Registered: 15 years ago Posts: 1,374 |
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eeek
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y_p_w
Technically that's true. There is no law that makes the resale of federal campground reservations illegal. There is no criminal sanction for resale of a reservation per se.
But there are laws about computer crimes and there are limits on how many days one person can reserve. So I'm pretty sure the scalper can be prosecuted.
May 23, 2011 07:31PM | Admin Registered: 15 years ago Posts: 17,096 |
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y_p_w
Well - again I'm pretty sure it's a regulation and not a law.
May 23, 2011 06:18PM | Admin Registered: 15 years ago Posts: 17,096 |
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May 23, 2011 06:44PM | Registered: 14 years ago Posts: 426 |
May 23, 2011 07:36PM | Admin Registered: 15 years ago Posts: 17,096 |
Re: Scalping Yosemite campsites and Half Dome permits May 24, 2011 10:30AM | Registered: 13 years ago Posts: 3 |
May 24, 2011 11:02AM | Registered: 14 years ago Posts: 426 |
Re: Scalping Yosemite campsites and Half Dome permits May 24, 2011 03:13PM | Registered: 13 years ago Posts: 3 |
May 24, 2011 03:21PM | Registered: 14 years ago Posts: 426 |
Re: Scalping Yosemite campsites and Half Dome permits May 24, 2011 05:24PM | Registered: 14 years ago Posts: 1,736 |
They are basically running a concession inside the park. They either have a permit to do this, or they do not. If they do not, they will be shut down pretty quickly I would hope.Quote
trm93614
The problem is they are not using group camp grounds: they reserve 30 or 40 sites in upper or lower pines camp ground,,they pay $20.00 for the site,
use a double site for the admin HQ and Set up a group feeding facility, They assign 6 people for each site (6 I believe is the max allowed) and the charge $159. for three nights or
$199 for 4 nights. Do the math....6 campers X 199= $1194 per site, less camping fee $20.00 for night 4 nights= 80.00 for a gross of $1,114.00 less food cost, admin cost, etc.
multiply by 30 sites and they are making $33,420, (less food cost, labor, admin, etc.) So they are turning a nice profit using public owned camp grounds. They do this several times during the summer...
my problem is there are group camping grounds in Yosemite. (30 People Max per site) They post signs in the camp grounds giving the camp site number of the admin and eating areas so the Park Service is aware of the bending (or breaking of their rules). So as you can see there is more than just a scalping problem, This type of group activity denies the general public at a fair chance to use public facilities.
Ted
Re: Scalping Yosemite campsites and Half Dome permits May 10, 2012 01:43PM | Registered: 12 years ago Posts: 4 |
May 10, 2012 03:52PM | Registered: 15 years ago Posts: 4,173 |
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BAS admin
There's only 1 group site in the Valley - and it's for park volunteers only.
May 25, 2011 02:01PM | Registered: 15 years ago Posts: 141 |
May 25, 2011 08:41PM | Moderator Registered: 15 years ago Posts: 1,876 |
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robinjayp
This really annoys me. I can't believe that such a large group would be allowed to assemble in Yosemite. I get the whole boy scouts and small group gatherings argument, but the amount of people this group is getting together in one campsite is out of control. I was worried about the impact that my group of 12 will have on the two campsites we have reserved in July (noise-wise and bothering others), but apparently this is nothing compared to this group.
I would be so pissed off if I was spending time in my "tranquil" camping spot in Yosemite only to have hundreds of people gather in a site nearby that is designated for only six people to eat, meet, sing, worship, etc. (which is better than being pissed on I suppose). Hope nobody has reservations in the second loop of Upper Pines during June 12-15 or June 15-19..... With the singing, however, I would worry if I was in the third loop as well....
Re: Scalping Yosemite campsites and Half Dome permits May 25, 2011 08:55PM | Registered: 14 years ago Posts: 1,128 |
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szalkowski
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robinjayp
This really annoys me. I can't believe that such a large group would be allowed to assemble in Yosemite. I get the whole boy scouts and small group gatherings argument, but the amount of people this group is getting together in one campsite is out of control. I was worried about the impact that my group of 12 will have on the two campsites we have reserved in July (noise-wise and bothering others), but apparently this is nothing compared to this group.
I would be so pissed off if I was spending time in my "tranquil" camping spot in Yosemite only to have hundreds of people gather in a site nearby that is designated for only six people to eat, meet, sing, worship, etc. (which is better than being pissed on I suppose). Hope nobody has reservations in the second loop of Upper Pines during June 12-15 or June 15-19..... With the singing, however, I would worry if I was in the third loop as well....
Since I don't stay in campgrounds, I can only imagine what the distress of being in the vicinity of a large group like this would cause. My experience has been limited to a few chance encounters with roving packs of much diminished size.
Approximately 15 years ago, my son and I were doing a loop through Sequoia, Kings, and the Jeannie Lakes Wilderness. One night was spent at Seville Lake in Sequoia. We had arrived there late in the afternoon, found the area deserted, and set up camp.. Within the hour, a “church group” of about a dozen “souls” arrived and decided to camp immediately adjacent to us. Never mind that there were several, equally good, sites around the lake that they could have occupied, it seems that divine providence decreed that salvation awaited them at this particular spot. The two leaders of this group even came over to us and suggested that we might want to move since the group might become a bit noisy. This was so very thoughtful of them, but since we were there first and our tent was a staked A-frame, we declined. In truth, they were not very disruptive that evening, perhaps being drained of energy by the day's hike. Morning was a different situation altogether. Aiming for an early start since we had an appreciable distance to travel that day, we were fortunate enough to almost completely packed up before they started emerging from their tents. What transpired next was, to put it kindly, extremely strange. They gathered in a circle, started whooping and hollering, clapping their hands, slapping their bodies, and stomping their feet. Our impression was that they perceived themselves being attacked by a biblical swarm of fire ants and were occupied in a holy war of hand-to-hand combat against them. Needless to say, we quickly exited the area... along with, I am certain, all of the local wildlife. The Manson Family had nothing on these wackos.
May 26, 2011 05:20PM | Registered: 15 years ago Posts: 141 |
May 26, 2011 06:38PM | Registered: 14 years ago Posts: 426 |
Re: Scalping Yosemite campsites and Half Dome permits May 10, 2012 01:48PM | Registered: 12 years ago Posts: 4 |
May 24, 2011 09:24PM | Registered: 15 years ago Posts: 4,173 |
Re: Scalping Yosemite campsites and Half Dome permits May 24, 2011 09:29PM | Registered: 14 years ago Posts: 1,736 |
May 24, 2011 09:42PM | Registered: 15 years ago Posts: 4,173 |
Re: Scalping Yosemite campsites and Half Dome permits May 25, 2011 06:59AM | Registered: 14 years ago Posts: 1,736 |
May 24, 2011 11:18PM | Registered: 15 years ago Posts: 1,374 |
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plawrence
FYI...
The outfit is called Bayside Adventure Sports.
They are based out of Roseville, CA.
Maybe they did get approval from the Park Service for their setup in Upper Pines. Is there any way to verify this?
Here's a link to their website: http://baysideadventuresports.com
And here's a link to their webpage regarding their 2011 Yosemite trips: http://baysideadventuresports.com/yosemite/
May 25, 2011 05:29AM | Moderator Registered: 15 years ago Posts: 1,876 |
Re: Scalping Yosemite campsites and Half Dome permits May 25, 2011 10:11AM | Registered: 13 years ago Posts: 145 |
Re: Scalping Yosemite campsites and Half Dome permits May 25, 2011 11:58AM | Registered: 15 years ago Posts: 118 |
May 25, 2011 12:26PM | Registered: 15 years ago Posts: 1,374 |
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rightstar76
who are affiliated or believe in the organization's philosophy. If you're not in, you don't have the opportunity to purchase a spot. We're not talking about a group that purchases three campsites and gets a dozen people to show up. We're talking a couple hundred people. Even though it's non profit it's still taking campsites away from the rest of the public. Seems like at this level they should have to get a special permit to operate.
Re: Scalping Yosemite campsites and Half Dome permits May 25, 2011 02:14PM | Registered: 13 years ago Posts: 145 |
Re: Scalping Yosemite campsites and Half Dome permits May 26, 2011 12:28AM | Registered: 15 years ago Posts: 118 |
May 26, 2011 04:25AM | Registered: 15 years ago Posts: 4,173 |
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SoCalCPA
Special Permit? - They have to have more than that - They have to have the Park itself allowing this - When I was lucky enough to get a site last 2/15 my first selection was already reserved at 1 second past 7:00 - 10 seconds later I was able to get the same site 2 days later - Anyone who thinks this Group could have on there own come up with all of these sites so close together on the same dates was probably raptured last Saturday too - The only possible way for this group to have this many sites together is through the reserve system authorizing it in advance - There just can't be any way that they either did this themselves or had some app that would have secured this many campsites - Only NPS could have made this happen.
....and since this is a National Park, I have to assume that there must be special group reservations available for all faiths Jewish, Muslim, Christian, etc. - If not, the park would be in serious trouble for discrimination.
But I have no problem with this - This is not a profit making transaction that a scalper would be getting a benefit from - This is a bunch of families/couples/people (the general public) who want to hang out together while in the park with the blessing of NPS - I would rather hang out with people from my church than having some kids next site over blasting AC/DC and reeking from the smell of burnt rope.
Re: Scalping Yosemite campsites and Half Dome permits May 26, 2011 08:25AM | Registered: 13 years ago Posts: 145 |
May 26, 2011 12:34PM | Registered: 15 years ago Posts: 4,173 |
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SoCalCPA
I googled group campsite reservations and couldn't find any way to do this - Next step would be to actually call the Park administrators and find out.
Re: Scalping Yosemite campsites and Half Dome permits May 26, 2011 10:38AM | Registered: 13 years ago Posts: 8 |
Re: Scalping Yosemite campsites and Half Dome permits May 10, 2012 01:36PM | Registered: 12 years ago Posts: 4 |
Re: Scalping Yosemite campsites and Half Dome permits May 26, 2011 07:45PM | Registered: 14 years ago Posts: 1,736 |
May 26, 2011 07:48PM | Admin Registered: 15 years ago Posts: 17,096 |
May 26, 2011 08:39PM | Registered: 14 years ago Posts: 1,634 |
Re: Scalping Yosemite campsites and Half Dome permits June 02, 2011 08:26PM | Registered: 15 years ago Posts: 118 |
June 03, 2011 08:17AM | Registered: 14 years ago Posts: 426 |
June 03, 2011 08:27AM | Moderator Registered: 15 years ago Posts: 1,876 |
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itchbay
These weren't fake ads trying to scalp tickets. In most cased, they're copy and paste of real ads, with snarky commentary. The amount in the title is a reference to how much the scalper is really charging.
Let's not get so over zealous on flagging real scalpers that we lose our perspective.
Re: Scalping Yosemite campsites and Half Dome permits June 03, 2011 10:12AM | Registered: 15 years ago Posts: 118 |
June 03, 2011 06:47PM | Registered: 15 years ago Posts: 2,321 |
June 03, 2011 08:37PM | Registered: 13 years ago Posts: 343 |
Re: Scalping Yosemite campsites and Half Dome permits June 03, 2011 10:46PM | Registered: 14 years ago Posts: 1,128 |
June 08, 2011 07:18PM | Registered: 13 years ago Posts: 456 |
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Me
I was coming to Yosemite next month, but I might be interested in taking your campsite (there are going to be 8 of us). It's gotta be cheaper than staying in the hotels in the park, so if I can get a good price I'd rather cancel my reservations. Will the road be open by then though? What are you asking for the site?
Thanks,
John
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Con Artist
From: Jeb
Sent: 06/08/11 04:33 PM
To: John R.
Subject: Re: Your campsite
Hi John
Price is $200 total for the 3 nights. You will have lots of privacy with that size of a campsite, and the campground is really beautiful---right on the river. Definitely beats a hotel if you like camping!
Let me know if you are interested.
Laura
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Me
That's a lot for a campsite. Can you come down some on the price?
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Con Artist
From: Jeb
Sent: 06/08/11 04:45 PM
To: John R.
Subject: Re: Your campsite
The group sites cost a lot more to rent. I could come down to $180
Laura
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Me
I was thinking more like $100.
John
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Con Artist
From: Jeb
Sent: 06/08/11 05:10 PM
To: John R.
Subject: Re: Your campsite
John
Sorry, can't do it. The site cost me $120 from ReserveAmerica (the park service reservation co). The going rate on regular 6 person summer campsites on craigslist (if you can even get them) is $90/night. I am asking only $60/night for a 30 person site.
Happy summer!
Laura
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Me
Wow, $120 to buy a campsite? I'm still interested, but how does this work? Can I print out the tickets? Or do I pick them up at the park?
John
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Con Artist
From: Jeb
Sent: 06/08/11 05:55 PM
To: John R.
Subject: Re: Your campsite
I can put the reservation in your name and give you an official print out. We can meet to exchange print put for payment. Can you make it to novato?
Laura
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Me
I can't come out, as I'm not in California. You should have taken the $100 offer so you're only out $20 instead of the $30 you'll lose having to cancel those reservations when no one buys your stupid nontransferrable site. You're comitting outright fraud now that the name cannot be changed on the reservation (as of today). Now no one can check into the site unless you also offer fake IDs free with every purchase. I'm sure you know that already since you're willing to sell for $20 profit per night when the going rate is supposedly $70 profit per. Why don't you get a real fucking job instead of trying to con honest people? Do the right thing and take down the fraudulent ads and I won't forward your links and emails to the NPS. Don't bother responding to me; I'll see your response via your actions on craigslist. Eat shit.
Love,
John
June 08, 2011 08:14PM | Registered: 15 years ago Posts: 1,374 |
June 08, 2011 08:17PM | Registered: 13 years ago Posts: 1,351 |
June 08, 2011 08:34PM | Registered: 15 years ago Posts: 1,374 |
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ttilley
Hasn't this TM Group Site been hawked for weeks now? I don't think mbear was dealing with an innocent.
June 10, 2011 10:56AM | Registered: 15 years ago Posts: 1,374 |
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y_p_w
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ttilley
Hasn't this TM Group Site been hawked for weeks now? I don't think mbear was dealing with an innocent.
Perhaps not an "innocent" per se. However - if someone is offering to accept payment in person with the transfer paperwork in tow, perhaps we're talking about someone who just doesn't know the policy has changed. I would say just give a link to the official announcement and be done with it.
June 10, 2011 01:02PM | Registered: 13 years ago Posts: 456 |
June 10, 2011 01:29PM | Registered: 15 years ago Posts: 1,374 |
Re: Scalping Yosemite campsites and Half Dome permits June 10, 2011 04:13PM | Registered: 15 years ago Posts: 118 |
June 10, 2011 06:24PM | Registered: 13 years ago Posts: 1,351 |
Re: Scalping Yosemite campsites and Half Dome permits June 08, 2011 07:47PM | Registered: 14 years ago Posts: 1,128 |
Re: Scalping Yosemite campsites and Half Dome permits June 08, 2011 08:09PM | Registered: 13 years ago Posts: 690 |
June 08, 2011 08:51PM | Registered: 13 years ago Posts: 456 |
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chicagocwright
Nice work. I may have set up a meeting and let the guy show up to meet no one. Send the final email while they are waiting for you.
No response I guess?
June 15, 2011 11:18AM | Registered: 15 years ago Posts: 16 |
June 15, 2011 11:44AM | Registered: 15 years ago Posts: 670 |
June 15, 2011 12:16PM | Admin Registered: 15 years ago Posts: 17,096 |
June 15, 2011 12:34PM | Registered: 15 years ago Posts: 670 |
Re: Scalping Yosemite campsites and Half Dome permits June 15, 2011 01:29PM | Registered: 15 years ago Posts: 670 |
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mark2
Like prostitution, campers will seek these scalpers out if they can be found. Campers are as guilty as the scalpers if they seek them out. Like any form of entertainment, where the street value of the entertainment (ticket) is perceived by the buyer to be more than its face value, there will be buying and selling.
However, this scalping problem highlights the value of camping in Yosemite as the most desired accommodation in all of the National Park Service's available venues, as there is no illegal scalping (reselling) of accommodations anywhere else within the National Park System. The importance of the camping experience in Yosemite Valley to a select kind of visitor, primarily one with wheels, who is probably not able to backpack or is from a city, and who sees Yosemite Valley's campgrounds and less crowded than perhaps the freeways near their homes, is a valid consideration.
For this reason, the YNPS should not continue to spend money on the refurbishing of existing infrastructures, like for example the proposed paving of the Yosemite Valley Loop Trail, to mention only one of many proposed infrastructure projects planned for the park, until the flood damaged campgrounds are restored to their former condition, as functioning campgrounds.
For those who do not know, all former plans that identified these campgrounds as "removed" have been rescinded as a part of the lengthy litigation. That means that the designation of those flood damaged campgrounds reverts to their former designation as "flood damaged". That the Park refuses to repair them, pointing to the Merced River's Wild and Scenic planning that must precede any repairs to those campgrounds, this is in conflict with their ongoing planning that continues other projects that also directly affect the river, such as the Yosemite Valley Loop Trail expansion, and others. If you agree, please write to planners and suggest that they simply repair the flood damage, while they continue the Merced River Planning efforts, as they were not legally "removed", and are no longer out of the current inventory of campgrounds in Yosemite Valley. These campgrounds are still part of that inventory, but are listed as "flood damaged".
You may not want to see the campgrounds as they were. And, we may agree on some specifics. But, at this time, before the Merced River Plan is conceived, and before they establish a "user capacity" for Yosemite Valley, we need to tell them to reopen the campground for now, as they were not legally removed. Leaving them damaged is likely to weigh heavily in favor of the Park's goal of accommodating more tour buses and day-trippers in rental cars, as you will see happen for example at Tenaya Lake where they intend to build a larger parking lot, a plastic boardwalk which will be a blight on the scenery there, and expand restroom facilities in order to manufacture Tenaya Lake into a staging area for the Park's staff who will manage their new traffic control technology that they are now implementing. Campers are lost in the shuffle. I hope you agree.
The place to send your snail mail is:
Superintendent
Yosemite National Park
Attn: Merced River Plan
P.O. Box 577
Yosemite, CA 95389
June 16, 2011 11:08PM | Registered: 15 years ago Posts: 4,173 |
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mtn man
The reason they are not going to rebuild Upper and Lower river campgrounds and the western portion of Lower Pines campground is (aside form all the legal mumble jumble) because they are still in the flood plain and if they rebulid them they would probably be damaged again from future floods (would be interesting to see what those areas look like tomorrow morning after the river is supposed to be at 11.8 ft, which is minor flooding compared to the 23 ft. in 1997, but still sends water through the western part of Lower Pines). Yes they need some more campsites, but not in the flood plain.
June 17, 2011 10:54AM | Registered: 15 years ago Posts: 16 |
June 17, 2011 11:00AM | Registered: 15 years ago Posts: 16 |
June 17, 2011 11:10AM | Registered: 13 years ago Posts: 254 |
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mark2
Gualala campground, in Gualala, CA floods every time it rains.
June 17, 2011 01:59PM | Registered: 15 years ago Posts: 16 |
June 15, 2011 04:07PM | Registered: 15 years ago Posts: 16 |
Re: Scalping Yosemite campsites and Half Dome permits June 15, 2011 09:43PM | Registered: 15 years ago Posts: 118 |
June 18, 2011 10:58PM | Registered: 15 years ago Posts: 1,374 |
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rightstar76
Didn't something like that happen in SEKI? They got rid of all the campgrounds and lodging in Giant Forest and then built a couple of hotels in Lodgepole. There were supposed to be six buildings but then they cut back to three. Now you can't get a room even if you have the three hundred bucks a night they want. Also, it's very hard to get a campsite in Lodgepole. Sounds similar.
June 19, 2011 04:20AM | Registered: 15 years ago Posts: 4,173 |
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y_p_w
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rightstar76
Didn't something like that happen in SEKI? They got rid of all the campgrounds and lodging in Giant Forest and then built a couple of hotels in Lodgepole. There were supposed to be six buildings but then they cut back to three. Now you can't get a room even if you have the three hundred bucks a night they want. Also, it's very hard to get a campsite in Lodgepole. Sounds similar.
There's still no indoor logging at Lodgepole. The new lodging is Wuksachi Lodge which is at least a mile from Lodgepole. The old lodging in Giant Forest was hard-sided cabins.
June 16, 2011 10:42AM | Registered: 15 years ago Posts: 16 |
June 16, 2011 11:05AM | Registered: 15 years ago Posts: 670 |
June 16, 2011 12:05PM | Registered: 15 years ago Posts: 16 |
June 17, 2011 10:27AM | Registered: 15 years ago Posts: 16 |
June 17, 2011 03:36PM | Registered: 13 years ago Posts: 343 |
Re: Scalping Yosemite campsites and Half Dome permits June 17, 2011 03:45PM | Registered: 14 years ago Posts: 1,128 |
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QITNL
Has anyone else noticed that lately the scalper ads seem to be flagged & removed more quickly?
Re: Scalping Yosemite campsites and Half Dome permits June 19, 2011 09:15PM | Registered: 13 years ago Posts: 17 |
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QITNL
Has anyone else noticed that lately the scalper ads seem to be flagged & removed more quickly?
Re: Scalping Yosemite campsites and Half Dome permits June 26, 2011 10:32AM | Registered: 15 years ago Posts: 118 |
Re: Scalping Yosemite campsites and Half Dome permits June 26, 2011 10:38AM | Registered: 14 years ago Posts: 1,128 |
June 26, 2011 08:14PM | Admin Registered: 15 years ago Posts: 17,096 |
Re: Scalping Yosemite campsites and Half Dome permits June 26, 2011 11:18AM | Registered: 15 years ago Posts: 118 |
Re: Scalping Yosemite campsites and Half Dome permits June 26, 2011 12:06PM | Registered: 14 years ago Posts: 1,128 |
June 26, 2011 12:52PM | Registered: 14 years ago Posts: 426 |
Re: Scalping Yosemite campsites and Half Dome permits May 10, 2012 01:32PM | Registered: 12 years ago Posts: 4 |
Re: Scalping Yosemite campsites and Half Dome permits June 27, 2011 09:51AM | Registered: 13 years ago Posts: 12 |
June 28, 2011 07:00PM | Moderator Registered: 15 years ago Posts: 1,876 |
July 08, 2011 09:19PM | Registered: 14 years ago Posts: 1,634 |
Re: Scalping Yosemite campsites and Half Dome permits July 08, 2011 10:14PM | Registered: 14 years ago Posts: 1,128 |
July 09, 2011 09:29AM | Registered: 13 years ago Posts: 456 |
July 09, 2011 10:25AM | Registered: 15 years ago Posts: 670 |
Re: Scalping Yosemite campsites and Half Dome permits July 09, 2011 10:34AM | Registered: 14 years ago Posts: 1,128 |
July 09, 2011 11:49AM | Admin Registered: 15 years ago Posts: 17,096 |
July 10, 2011 01:31PM | Moderator Registered: 15 years ago Posts: 1,876 |
July 15, 2011 01:44PM | Moderator Registered: 15 years ago Posts: 1,876 |
Re: Scalping Yosemite campsites and Half Dome permits July 16, 2011 09:24PM | Registered: 13 years ago Posts: 145 |
Re: Scalping Yosemite campsites and Half Dome permits July 16, 2011 10:11PM | Registered: 14 years ago Posts: 1,128 |
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SoCalCPA
Just spent the week in the valley and spoke with several rangers on the scalping issue (Campsites and permits) - What I was told was that they are very aware of the issue and focusing on several people (one guy in particular) - they need to have people who have purchased scalped reservations/permits and have been turned down at the Park to be willing to prosecute.
I was told that they are doing what they can
July 17, 2011 07:42AM | Moderator Registered: 15 years ago Posts: 1,942 |
Quote
SoCalCPA
Just spent the week in the valley and spoke with several rangers on the scalping issue (Campsites and permits) - What I was told was that they are very aware of the issue and focusing on several people (one guy in particular) - they need to have people who have purchased scalped reservations/permits and have been turned down at the Park to be willing to prosecute.
I was told that they are doing what they can
Re: Scalping Yosemite campsites and Half Dome permits July 17, 2011 08:21PM | Registered: 13 years ago Posts: 145 |
August 23, 2011 12:53PM | Admin Registered: 15 years ago Posts: 17,096 |
Re: Scalping Yosemite campsites and Half Dome permits August 23, 2011 01:10PM | Registered: 13 years ago Posts: 21 |
August 23, 2011 01:40PM | Registered: 15 years ago Posts: 2,321 |
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AlpineBrian
I'd like to hear how the new policy is working. What do people think it will be like for next year's reservations? I want to go with my brother, in two spots, and wonder if we have a chance. Looking at late May...
August 23, 2011 02:58PM | Registered: 14 years ago Posts: 1,634 |
September 01, 2011 08:07PM | Registered: 14 years ago Posts: 1,634 |
Re: Scalping Yosemite campsites and Half Dome permits September 01, 2011 08:57PM | Registered: 14 years ago Posts: 1,128 |
Re: Scalping Yosemite campsites and Half Dome permits September 01, 2011 09:10PM | Registered: 13 years ago Posts: 690 |
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sactown23
But, we can take some hints from the fact that Yosemite has reported a drastic drop in the amount of people using the cables based on the amount of permits that have been checked by the rangers.
Re: Scalping Yosemite campsites and Half Dome permits September 01, 2011 09:19PM | Registered: 14 years ago Posts: 1,128 |
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chicagocwright
All along this is what has made me uneasy about this effort. The goal wasn't to stop hikers from hiking Half Dome. It was to hopefully prevent future abuse of the permit system. To be honest, at this point I would rather a hiker get to hike Half Dome rather than be turned away. As I noted in my report the cables are being way under-utilized and I think that is sad. If tis Craigslist tagging system helped raise awareness of the issue and prevents this from happening in future years then it will all probably be worth it. But it is already too late this year to have any real benefit for this year. And unfortunately, hikers are being turned away because of Yosemite's hard line stance of requiring permits. I wish they would have just quietly eased the permit requirements when they saw how under-utilized the cables are. Maybe in reality that is what they are doing but the ranger just couldn't come out and tell me that.
Or maybe you just simply wait until 4:30-5:00 and go up the cables when the ranger leaves getting you back to Happy Isles just before nightfall. Or get there extra early. Again I think the goal should be to allow as many people as safely possible to make the hike.
September 01, 2011 10:02PM | Registered: 13 years ago Posts: 456 |
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chicagocwright
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sactown23
But, we can take some hints from the fact that Yosemite has reported a drastic drop in the amount of people using the cables based on the amount of permits that have been checked by the rangers.
All along this is what has made me uneasy about this effort. The goal wasn't to stop hikers from hiking Half Dome. It was to hopefully prevent future abuse of the permit system. To be honest, at this point I would rather a hiker get to hike Half Dome rather than be turned away. As I noted in my report the cables are being way under-utilized and I think that is sad. If tis Craigslist tagging system helped raise awareness of the issue and prevents this from happening in future years then it will all probably be worth it. But it is already too late this year to have any real benefit for this year. And unfortunately, hikers are being turned away because of Yosemite's hard line stance of requiring permits. I wish they would have just quietly eased the permit requirements when they saw how under-utilized the cables are. Maybe in reality that is what they are doing but the ranger just couldn't come out and tell me that.
Or maybe you just simply wait until 4:30-5:00 and go up the cables when the ranger leaves getting you back to Happy Isles just before nightfall. Or get there extra early. Again I think the goal should be to allow as many people as safely possible to make the hike.
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http://www.nps.gov/yose/planyourvisit/hdpermits.htm
Updated July 26, 2011
Initial hiker counts for this season indicate that there are numerous no shows among Half Dome permit holders. In an effort to make up for these no shows, the National Park Service (NPS) will manually release additional Half Dome permits each day, at 7 am PDT on the day before the permit date. For instance, at 7 am on Friday, additional permits will become available online (recommended) and through the call center at Recreation.gov for use on Saturday. This will continue throughout the summer until further notice. These permits are taken in a matter of seconds, but it's worth continuing to check because some transactions are not completed, resulting in a few permits becoming available as late as 7:30. Additionally, some permits are canceled every day (and can be canceled and re-reserved until midnight the day before the hiking date).
NPS will initially release an additional 50 Half Dome permits each day and then adjust these numbers, either up or down, throughout the season based upon ongoing hiker counts.These additional permits will have $1.50 processing fee and be limited to purchases of four at a time. Unlike the earlier Half Dome permits, these are non transferable. To counter the illegal resale of Half Dome permits, the group leader, whose name is recorded at the time of transaction, must accompany his or her group on their Half Dome hike. Once the permit transaction is completed, the group leader’s name cannot be changed.
The day-before-release method was chosen to counter both illegal resale of permits and speculative buying by the general public. While purchasing a permit the day before does not allow as much advance notice as many people may wish, it should put permits in the hands of hikers who will use them.
While permits are not available in the park or on a first-come, first-served basis, canceled permits may be available until midnight the evening before the hiking day through Recreation.gov. If you have a permit that you won't use, please cancel it so others may use it. (You may cancel your permit as late as midnight the evening before the hiking day.)
If you are unable to hike Half Dome for any reason (including weather, cables not available, illness, etc.) on the day you have a permit, we will not be able to provide a permit for a different date.
Re: Scalping Yosemite campsites and Half Dome permits September 02, 2011 06:49AM | Registered: 13 years ago Posts: 690 |
Re: Scalping Yosemite campsites and Half Dome permits September 02, 2011 07:52AM | Registered: 13 years ago Posts: 21 |
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chicagocwright
Even with the additional permits being released, the cables are still being under-utilized.
Sadly, and perversely, Yosemite may actually need the scalper to sell more permits, raising the level of his "fraud", and perhaps meeting a threshold making it worthwhile for them to prosecute. I just keep on having a nagging feeling that despite our efforts the worst of our accomplishments is keeping people from going up the cables--whether or not a scalper benefits from it or not.
Re: Scalping Yosemite campsites and Half Dome permits September 02, 2011 02:58PM | Registered: 13 years ago Posts: 690 |
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AlpineBrian
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chicagocwright
Even with the additional permits being released, the cables are still being under-utilized.
Sadly, and perversely, Yosemite may actually need the scalper to sell more permits, raising the level of his "fraud", and perhaps meeting a threshold making it worthwhile for them to prosecute. I just keep on having a nagging feeling that despite our efforts the worst of our accomplishments is keeping people from going up the cables--whether or not a scalper benefits from it or not.
I strongly disagree. We need to stick to this plan. The scalpers will tire, and next year, normal folks should have a shot at securing camping and half dome permits. It will take some sacrifice this year, as the scalpers are holding onto the permits, but will be worth it next year.
I'm having fun flagging the listings!
September 02, 2011 03:58PM | Admin Registered: 15 years ago Posts: 17,096 |
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chicagocwright
I am hopeful (maybe wishful thinking) that Yosemite will come up with a solution that stops scalpers.