Re: Yosemite full of snow & flash floods..should I still go?

Ok so I love backpacking yosemite but I just got off the phone with a yosemite ranger and he advised me that all of yosemite except the valley floor is full of snow and theres a big concern with flash floods!!

So with that said ....does any body have any more info on this (with specific locations to stay away from) or possibly suggestions where else to go?

would you still go?

Quote
Jpsfirstresponse
all of yosemite except the valley floor is full of snow

That's not quite true.

Quote

and theres a big concern with flash floods!!

Flooding will mostly be a concern in the Valley.

Quote

would you still go?

Yes.

Definitely still go! I just finished a week of backpacking and epic hiking around the rim of the valley and it was a blast. We had great snow-free camping at Little Yosemite. Most of the hiking we did was snow free: Mist Trail, John Muir, Panorama Trail, Yosemite Falls/Point. We hiked out to North Dome and did hit a bunch of snow but no snowshoes necessary. We also made it up to Clouds Rest and only hit snow above 8800. Lots of great places to backpack still if you don't want snow!

Great!! thanks I gotta hope we can get a first come spot for happy isles heading up to clouds rest..

right now our reservation is for yosemite falls entry but from yosemite falls where to go from there is the question. I dont wantg to go backwards on the north rim.. so forward towards snow creek , tenaya lake but with high running water i hope we get the happy isles trail to clouds rest..

You axed all kinds of questions all over the place. So not exactly sure what info you want.
So I'll just babble a bit and you can direct whatever way you like.

You say you love backpacking Yosemite. So I assume you have a good map and been a few
places. Right now, any creek or stream with a name for sure will give pause to cross.
Most, for most people, will necessitate a log to cross. The good thing is that there are a lot
of logs out there... so most are not a huge issue to get across if you are willing to
take the time to find one... and have decent balance. However most of the big boys
just aren't worth the risk to cross though so you have to xcountry a lot if you really
want to get way up der perhaps.
Anyway, I'm just flapping my wings...

The flooding and snow are overblown by the media mostly. Yes, there's still a lot out there...
but now it is consolidated so much that you can walk atop it no problemo. 5 ft. 10ft.
It doesn't matter. Walk away. Maybe bring spikies for early morning walking.

Snow Creek Cabin - up Snow Creek is no issue whatsoever. The cabin will be closed though so
don't think about staying in the cabin. From GP it appears the trail is pretty clear...
As is most of the north rim... so only the stream crossings would give pause and perhaps
Eagle Peak Meadows area...

It seems a lot of people of bailing so I wouldn't doubt you can get Happy Isles if you go on a weekday.

---

Ok, kinda funny about "backwards = west".

Anyway, my recommendation is that you not worry so much about Clouds Rest.
I presume you have already been up Eagle Peak?

Up Yosemite Falls going east you have to get over Indian Canyon Creek and Lehemite.
A lot of info here:
http://yosemitenews.info/forum/read.php?3,36860

With respect to Tenaya outlet crossing... I thought we kinda beat that one to death.
Me. I still would go with this in my noggin:
http://yosemitenews.info/forum/read.php?3,37948,37952#msg-37952

However, with "intermediate" as hiking level... I'm not sure you will make it that far.

There's all kinds of stuff to explore. Just going up Yosemite Creek is fun.

Lots of other trails are open (i.e. little to no snow). And flash floods... that is hysteria.

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What more info would you like?

I can detail each and every TH from the valley if you really need it.

Up Merced River Canyon (this is what I told ryanmj to do mid-june btw) (I guess he bailed tho)
is just so classic Yosemite. Screw Clouds and just hike up it until you hit so much snow it's too
much. Then come back down.

GP to Illiouette (via Panorama) - free and clear. Hike right under Starr King. No stream crossings reqd.
If lazy come down Happy Isles.

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Well I'm have some ideas on where to backpack which I just posted but I'm up for suggestions which it looks like you have.

I have some preferables

1) I like high elevations ( although given that I'm not bringing snow/ice gear that limits things)
2) somewhat remote ....don't really like seeing big groups
3) for this trip nothing too technical ( no having to do crazy climbing to get from point a to b )

Really post what comes to mind and I'll check it out!

So markwise you say you went up to clouds rest this month? you said it was snow free? did you just hike up it with boots? do you have any pictures?

I purposely just booked a site in Upper pines for Tueday because I want to SEE the flood.

Quote
Jpsfirstresponse
Ok so I love backpacking yosemite but I just got off the phone with a yosemite ranger and he advised me that all of yosemite except the valley floor is full of snow and theres a big concern with flash floods!!

So with that said ....does any body have any more info on this (with specific locations to stay away from) or possibly suggestions where else to go?

would you still go?

Yes.

The rangers are nervous nellies who routinely deal with tourists who have not a bit of common sense in the backcountry. Also, they tend to give inaccurate info if they have not been out there themselves, so.

I'd take a map, compass, and some gear, and the good sense to know when a stream crossing is too dangerous and to decide to turn back or go elsewhere. (water is one of the top two ways to die in Yosemite, the other being falling off rocks.)

That's pretty funny.

I'd leave the gear at home.

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chick-on
That's pretty funny.

I'd leave the gear at home.

From the pictures the Old Dude is the one carrying the gear.

Actually, is Chick-on part of the gear list?

Quote
AlmostThere

Quote
chick-on
I'd leave the gear at home.

From the pictures the Old Dude is the one carrying the gear.

Actually, is Chick-on part of the gear list?

Listed as "land anchor."

Okay, here's the deal: I suggested that the poster come over to this board for expert advice on where to go in Yosemite this time of year. He does not know all of the inside jokes, characters, etc., so I am sure that he is more than frustrated by now. I cannot help him because I do not know the park as well as most of you do, so please help the guy out before the thread takes a turn.

---

The body betrays and the weather conspires, hopefully, not on the same day.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/13/2011 08:26AM by Bee.

Thanks Bee for following up on my post . I don't take offense to all the jokes and inside comments but I thought eventually they would get all there jokes out of there system and give some suggestions

Thanks everyone who responded I appreciate it.

There was some more questions posed to me and I'll try to synthesize and clarify some things

1) I'm pretty familiar with Yosemite but definitely not an expert on the park and all her trails , although that is the goal. I prefer to backpack in Yosemite because I believe the more you know a park the more freedom you have to enjoy it

2) The reason I aske my questions was even though I feel like I'm a competent backpacker and one with common sense unlike alot of tourist is that I'm always ready to learn from others. I could of forgot something or missed something. Things could of changed since my last visit and other might have had a experience that could help me on my trip.

I believe in the statement ( which I heard at work, I'm a paramedic ) that " when you think you know it all then that's te time to quit and that's when you become a danger to yourself and others "

3) yes I'm familiar with eagle peak . Also in september I backpacked the north rim starting from rockslides solo.

4) yes I agree that the rangers speak to the lower common denominator for sure and I don't blame them but I always take things serious until proven otherwise which keeps me on my toes

So whatever the conditions are I'm still coming Friday so I'll have to post pics of my trip.

Although I have no idea where were backpacking yet . We have reservations for entry at Yosemite falls but hoping to get happyisles to clouds rest to JMT back down to valley although sunrise area might be to full of snow.

I guess were going to have to wing it. Our original plans was to start from T.Meadows to glen Aulin back down to valley but that's not happening



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/13/2011 09:30AM by Jpsfirstresponse.

Quote
Jpsfirstresponse
hoping to get happyisles to clouds rest to JMT back down to valley although sunrise area might be to full of snow.

By this do you mean that you are going by Sunrise Lakes?
i.e. JMT to Clouds Rest Trail -> Clouds Rest -> Sunrise Lakes -> Sunrise HSC -> Cathedral Pass -> TM -> back down to Yosemite Valley
?
Not might - it WILL be full of snow. Guaranteed.

How many days you going?

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The plan was happy isles> clouds rest> sunrise lakes>JMT>down to valley

So if sunrise is full of snow and not doable then well im up for suggestions.

like i had mentioned we reserved yosemite falls entry just in case so at least we have something but presonally i already did the north rim and prefer not to do it again.

I did think about going to tanaya lake from yosemite falls or snow creek but getting around tenaya lake inlet or outlet seems to be a questionable issue. I have looked at the thread on tenaya outlet although i didnt find the info as helpful as i though. I was hoping for more clearifying facts like is the inlet doable? how wide? how deep? is there another way around it or should one just wing it and hope for a downed tree. if we could make it across then we could head down to valley from tenaya passing clouds rest .

were arriving june 17(this friday) till June 23

Sigh. Yeah. For some reason there was a big discussion about the crossing here:
http://yosemitenews.info/forum/read.php?3,35510,38167#msg-38167

Just because it's full of snow doesn't mean it's not doable (your route, not the crossing).

You may be interested in reading this:
http://yosemitenews.info/forum/read.php?3,36074

Here's some stuff I PM'd to steelcup w/r to going over Clouds:

Quote
me
As far as going over Clouds, in that thread there are links to some videos and also
a link to when I went up there on May 8, 2009.
Here are some more photos of what I was alluding to with regards to traversing over it
and also what may give you and your wife pause coming from the NE.
Just click forward to see the 7 photos I put here:
https://picasaweb.google.com/yosemite.chick.on/Testies#5608419923066552082

I would expect nearly the same conditions this year due to the major snow we have
been having. It is possible it is worse, but unlikely. But it is another reason to come
from the west...

So what the heck would I do?
Go up Snow Creek. Make way to Olmsted Pt. Get past highly hyped Av. spot.
Get on road. Check out Tenaya Crossing... say F that... hike up road
and follow "Alternate" and "Chick-on Approved" route to Echo Valley. etc.
http://yosemitenews.info/forum/read.php?3,37948,37952#msg-37952

(and hope like heck they don't all the sudden open the road just before I get on it)
(that would just irritate the crapola outta me)

Keep asking ... I'll respond

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Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/13/2011 10:24AM by chick-on.

Chick-on thanks for your time and help.

So if im correct your suggestion would be to hike up to tenaya and then jump on road until lambs dome then head off there and hike around the mountain range above catherdal lakes and down onto jmt then at sunrise junction go east on the trail which will lead down to echo valley then head right into valley?

I read all your links (my brain is like wow so much info) but if im correct the snow should be consolidated to where snowshoes arnt needed? Also i saw the video of clouds rest in may 2010 and there was a guy using crampons to get up? but i wander if there really needed since from what i read (on this page towards the top ) markwise said he just went up there this month (2011) with no problem.

do you have way points coordinates for this route(alternate-chick on)?

What do you think about this new idea of mine.

I was thinking what about :

Happy isles > clouds rest >down back of clouds rest towards jmt then go east towrds merced lake then back to valley (happy isles)?

once again if i miss something its not intentially ive just been working on this trip every second for a while and its all a blur..

Something else to ponder:
http://yosemitenews.info/forum/read.php?3,35510,38673#msg-38673

(it just means you can't hike the road... that you have to take the trail from Olmsted to Tenaya Lake)
(stay in the trees... and you'll be ok)

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Quote
Jpsfirstresponse
So if im correct your suggestion would be to hike up to tenaya and then jump on road until lambs dome then head off there and hike around the mountain range above catherdal lakes and down onto jmt then at sunrise junction go east on the trail which will lead down to echo valley then head right into valley?

The route goes xcountry (but it should not matter since the trail will not be visible anyway) after Cathedral pass down
to Echo Lake and follows Echo Creek all the way to Echo Valley. Very low degree of danger since the creek is bridged below.
Since you list your experience as "intermediate" this may be way more than you are comfortable with.

Quote
jps
I read all your links (my brain is like wow so much info) but if im correct the snow should be consolidated to where snowshoes arnt needed? Also i saw the video of clouds rest in may 2010 and there was a guy using crampons to get up? but i wander if there really needed since from what i read (on this page towards the top ) markwise said he just went up there this month (2011) with no problem.

Snowshoes are useless now. No need to carry that extra weight. I've also gone up and over Clouds (May 9, 2009). You won't need crampons.
I only used spikies and that was only because I slept up there and it froze overnight. And I only used them on the summit.

Quote
jps
do you have way points coordinates for this route(alternate-chick on)?

I haven't done the section up to Cathedral xcountry. But if you really really want it I guess I could make and send you a track.

Quote
jps
What do you think about this new idea of mine.

I was thinking what about :

Happy isles > clouds rest >down back of clouds rest towards jmt then go east towrds merced lake then back to valley (happy isles)?

Well, my comment on that would be... The Forsyth Trail that you would come down is gonna be covered in snow... and it's a lot of down.
Unless you are going to camp in snow NE of Clouds on a day or camp higher than the JMT/Clouds trail jct.... I would say
just dayhike clouds and save yourself the effort of carrying your stuff with you.
The JMT in that area isn't super spectacular... but I LOVE the high trail from Forsyth Trl Jct. area to Echo Valley.
You can spend a lot of time exploring Quarter Domes and Clouds if you just dayhike them...

Probably you haven't seen these:
http://yosemitenews.info/forum/read.php?3,33643
and if you get lost in the off-topic stuff.. :
http://yosemitenews.info/forum/read.php?3,33643,33648#msg-33648

Anyway, that is a good route to stay out of the snow mostly... and continue up to Washburn, etc.

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Chick-on

thanks again. So i took a look at your links and it raises more questions.

As far as the snow creek to alternate route down into echo valley im going to have to think about that

If i decide to take happy isle route i will camp by the trail junction going up to clouds rest/next to sunrise creek by little yosemite valley and walk up to clouds rest as a day hike (leaving gear there...good idea) and not going down back side.

heres the question:

If i take the trail going to echo valley from my first camp site (clouds rest trail/little yosemite are),onceat echo valley if we turn right and head along the merced river toward bunnell point "is there spots to camp around that area? it seems narrow being inbetween the mountain range with river in middle? I saw your pictures of the avalanch at bunnell if im correct?

Others can pipe in... but yes, there is camping between the bridges at Bunnell and the bridge heading into Echo Valley.
We have camped there. Mind you we camp without a care for the scar that a fire ring puts on the landscape.
I've seen fire rings on the way to Bunnell Pt. proper also.

I just looked and found this gem:


and that area is just ... ah... as I said in another thread... I'd do that hike again and again and again...



To your initial question though... Garsh.. you should go.
And w/r to the snow. It really can be a lot of fun. The Tenaya Lake route may just be too much if that is the first time though.

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I've camped at the top of Lost Valley, I'd say about 20 years ago or so, on a flat patch on the slope above the river and trail. Counter-balanced my food, slept for the night w/ a noisy Merced River (it was June), and woke up the next morning to find several branches broken from the tree where I hung my food. The food was safe, but bears made a very solid attempt at it and I didn't hear them over the noise of the river.

ok nice to know but with my luck the bear will knock my bear canister down into the damn river!

give it a try i guess..thats a scary thing...no food

bear isn't going to play hacky sack with your bear can.

The shots are not Lost Valley. I can't recommend staying in Lost Valley.
We poked around there and it's more of a challenge to find something really nice imo.
Maybe something near the Cascade itself though would be nice.

Lost Valley is b/t The REAL Bunnell Cascade and The Cascade a lot of people call Bunnell Cascade.
(The west one is the "Moraine Dome" "Campground"... the last spot you can camp heading
west before hitting LYV)

---

Quote
Jpsfirstresponse
Also in september I backpacked the north rim starting from rockslides solo.

In some future year... you should redo the trip at a different time of year.
This is something I really like to do... it's def. not the same...

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Hey chick on i love the picture you put on...do you have any more pics specifically for the route i plan on taking...happy>clouds>echo valley>lost valley>bunnell >back to valley

It seems from your post you really really really like the echo valey area if im correct

Ill have to plan to come back up and do the snow creek to alternate trail .

If you guys ever do a smal groupd( couple of guys let me know my schedule is flexable) although im taking the family to sequoias in august and planning for whitney in october

Quote
Jpsfirstresponse
Hey chick on i love the picture you put on...do you have any more pics specifically for the route i plan on taking...happy>clouds>echo valley>lost valley>bunnell >back to valley

It seems from your post you really really really like the echo valey area if im correct

Ill have to plan to come back up and do the snow creek to alternate trail .

If you guys ever do a smal groupd( couple of guys let me know my schedule is flexable) although im taking the family to sequoias in august and planning for whitney in october

We really really really REALLY Love Yosemite. ALL of it.

You should go to Merced Lake too. From Echo Valley it's not that far, and not much up.
You could camp near the river in Echo and dayhike up and back down.

I can put some more photos together.... If you poke around my Picasa you can find most of the route.
I have time though... I'll put something else together tomorrow...

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I saw your pic albums but i didnt think i saw some pictures marked where they were but wasnt sure if they were along that route specifically
Creapy you must be reading my mind, i thought "hey i should go to merced lake".

yosemite is the best i love it. my goal is until i die hike all of it over and over and whitney as well. cant wait to go in october if all (money)goes well until then



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/13/2011 06:54PM by Jpsfirstresponse.

These were all up part towards Merced Lake at least part way:

https://picasaweb.google.com/yosemite.chick.on/Obelisk
https://picasaweb.google.com/yosemite.chick.on/MercedLake
https://picasaweb.google.com/yosemite.chick.on/Matthes02
https://picasaweb.google.com/yosemite.chick.on/BunnellPt

I'll throw something else together tomorrow...

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Chick on- thanks those pictures are great.... I cant wait..

**I think i should have my own mascot** hmmm what would it be.. its actually funny but clever



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/13/2011 08:02PM by Jpsfirstresponse.

I put a few here:
https://picasaweb.google.com/yosemite.chick.on/MercedRiverCanyon?authkey=Gv1sRgCJSR5Pz5-5Pj0gE

There's already quite a few from The High Trail already in Merced Lake set.
Much of the JMT b/t Clouds Rest Junction and Sunrise HSC doesn't have much for views...
I didn't include any of Vernal or Nevada Falls... I'm sure you can find thousands of those photos.
There's a few off trail. Abuse at your own risk.
And no, there really isn't any order to the photos...

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What clothing are you packing for this weather right now? Havnt been there in early June.

Ya thanks again for the photos! So I'm taking your advice and doing happy isles to clouds to Merced to echo valley back down into valley( but that depends on firstcome availability if not we might wait till 11 that day to get that spot for the following day but I'll post my trip when I get back)

Read this:
http://yosemitenews.info/forum/read.php?3,36669,36684#msg-36684

I ALWAYS wear long pants and long shirt. If you ever go with me... you'll quickly know why.

The picture doesn't usually lie:


Sorry

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It's hard to see with my phone but is that poison ivy? I'm trying to make more space for food do I need to put my emergency water purifier pills in my bear canister? I tend not to put my toilet paper in either since there's no smell to it no more than the smell if a new tent.

How many pairs of long johns? 1 I'm ausuming? With 1 pair of pants ( the ones your wearing)

Maybe you can share your packing. Always curious what every one else is packing especially you since your always out there

Quote
Jpsfirstresponse
It's hard to see with my phone but is that poison ivy?

No, that's mostly mazanita. A lot of "fun" to walk through.

For Merced River Canyon right now I would bring:
- lightweight long johns top and bottom
- extra pair of socks and liners
- winter cap
- buff
- fleece socks
- clothes I'm wearing
- puffy jacket (wear this at night ... then put into stuff sack and use as pillow)
- puffy pants (wear this at night... then get shoved at bottom of sleeping back to keep feet warm)

I wouldn't bring a tent. I'd bring tarp (MSR eWing) and almost assuredly not use it. And Bivy sack (Mountain Laurel Designs Superlight).
Probably bring bug spray now and I have a Bug Bivy so to be safe I'd bring those. Esp. if knew had to sleep in LYV.
- Polycro ground cloth
- 25 degree sleeping bag
- Silk Sleeping bag liner
- Bare Boxer Bear Can
- MSR Pocket Rocket + 8oz fuel cannister
- Titanium Pot
- Cup, Bowl, 2 Spoons
- Osprey Talon 44 Backpack
- Short Down Air Mattress (although I'm now toying with making a fleece cover for my Short Neo Air)

What else?
- All my gadgets (Archos PMP, GPS, Camera)
- Lighter, Clip light, spare lith batts for GPS, couple of bandaids, floss
- Rain/Wind Jacket
- Steripen, 2 litre platy so can camp anywhere

That's about it. I don't always bring the same gear... but this is what I would use for this trip.

---

Thanks chick-on I really appreciate you taking time to give me the list

List:

Check
Check
Check

Perfect! As

Quote
chick-on
Read this:
http://yosemitenews.info/forum/read.php?3,36669,36684#msg-36684

I ALWAYS wear long pants and long shirt. If you ever go with me... you'll quickly know why.

Except for occasionally wearing a miniature Green Bay Packers helmet, I always thought that you hiked in the buff.

That's my birthday suit.

---

Maybe you know this... but I will state it anyway:

Passthru has fewer permits available... so you may be forced to get a LYV permit.
GP->LYV
or
HI->LYV

If you want to camp at Moraine Dome or up at Clouds Rest/JMT Trail junction you need
HI->Sunrise/MercedLake Passthru

Regardless what you get. If possible get moving quickly and go straight up the Mist Trail for
the quickest way up. If too late a start then you can get stymied on Mist below Vernal and
then you should take the JMT.
JMT is gentler but longer. If the big steps are an issue with a pack then take the JMT.
I only have gone up JMT once with pack. I always get going ASAP and zip up The Mist all
the way to Nevada Falls. But... I'm usually doing that very early in the season (self-reg) or
very late... so the log jam o peeps on Mist is usually not an issue.

If this is already known to you... my apologies.

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Shoot your right I'm so busy packing and since we've already changed our reservation multiple times I forgot about the passthrough pass.

So if the hi-Merced passthrough isn't available what other options are available ? I think you've mentioned it but just need clarification

The other options are to not go thru or to LYV on your first night.
That means going to Illiouette Basin on first night.
GP->Illiouette
HI->Illiouette
I would stay to shy away from Mono Meadow at the moment due to
having to cross multiple streams including the Illiouette perhaps depending
on your intended route. (the stream from Mono Mdw area is flowing nicely...
there are logs on the upper crossing... dunno about the bottom one near the Illiouette)
Trailhead stuff is here if needed:
http://www.nps.gov/yose/planyourvisit/wildpermits.htm
1. Once you know where you want to begin your hike from, use the trailheads map [1 MB PDF] to determine the name of your trailhead.

btw. There is only one permit class for passing thru LYV on your first night. They lump Merced and Sunrise together.
Why? beats the poo outta me

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Chick on

i just contacted the ranger office and I was told that the HI>Sunrise/Merced passthrough filled with first come first serve the day before at 11 but HI>Illilouette and GP>illilouette have not.

When we show up friday i guess we could wait till 11 to get a spot for friday that would still leave us with 5 days to complete the route but if we were to take HI>illilouette or GP>illilouette is there spots to camp just outside the "purple no camping zone on the map" instead of going all the way up to illilouette basin?

For GP->Ill.. you don't take the final switchbacks and cross the bridge...
continue on Buena Vista Trail and there are campsites near the river and
before you need to cross the feeder creek (which will be roaring)
If you do cross Ill. on the bridge you end up with:

For HI->Ill. it's a shame ppl don't practice more LNT... b/c then you could camp closer.
Stay on the higher trail and you will find something eventually... there are some great
views from this trail of Starr King.
some of those views are here:
https://picasaweb.google.com/yosemite.chick.on/StarrKing
(of course you can hike here from GP too)

But... did you ask about HI->LYV? that quota is MUCH higher than the passthru
things are heating up... lots of ppl going now...
so don't be too upset if you don't get LYV or LYV passthru the day you want.

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Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/15/2011 01:22PM by chick-on.

GP>Illilouette:

So dont go toward panorama trail footbridge? where illilouette falls are? continue south towards basin? i might have it wrong? i could head to basin and camp? then back down toward panorama into lost valley are , then to echo valley>merced lake......ect..

or from illilouette basin go up to 5 trail intersection and try to cross via down tree then down into lost valley? if im correct?

HI>Illilouette

LNT? sorry but whats LNT? trust me im learning from you!!

So- from HI i could travel up trail toward mount star king then next day back track into lost valley>echo valley>merced>clouds>HI?

I think i asked you this but to clarify you stated not to camp in lost valley but is there camping before bunnell cascade or after cascade but before trail intersection where that trail splits off with merced to right and jmt/clouds top left?

LNT - Leave No Trace
http://www.lnt.org/programs/principles.php

Check out the trailheads map:
http://www.lnt.org/programs/principles.php

If you have "Illiouette Permit" you can camp anywhere beyond those arrows
regardless of your start point.
In other words... from GP you can cross the bridge and hike Panorama Trail
and then head towards Starr King.
I do not recommend crossing Illiouette without the bridge. It's much deeper
than it looks. And not a simple crossing. That is why I mentioned Mono Mdw already.
After your first night you are free to camp in LYV or beyond.
(so yes, you would backtrack down to Nevada Falls,etc. with a HI permit)

Lost Valley. I have not found decent camping here. That is all I can say.
We camped there one time... but it was a "well... this will have to do" moment.

There is no camping from Sunrise Creek bridge in LYV east 2 miles to the first cascade area
(it is clearly marked with signs).

---

Quote
chick-on

Check out the trailheads map:
http://www.lnt.org/programs/principles.php

Did you mean to provide a link to this map?

Yosemite National Park: Wilderness Trailheads

You're worrying too much.
It's a big place. You'll find a place to sleep.

As for the LNT principles. IMO it's lacking.
It should be "do not use biodegrabable soap, you can get your dishes clean using hot water."
"get pots as clean as possible using what you were born with... and then finish the job
with a small amount of hot water."

"don't have a fire" "use your headlamp" "if you're cold... use your sleeping bag"

"knock down any cairns you see"

and

"Have fun"

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OK im not going to worry!! cant wait. everytime i go out its reminds me when i was a kid during christmas, i couldnt sleep a few days before it... I love it out there.. shhh hey can you hear that? ahh i its so quiet i can hear my self think!

LNT isnt a problem but i could of sworn you mentioned "Mind you we camp without a care for the scar that a fire ring puts on the landscape" meaning dont be afraid to build a fire in a safe area?

I will definately have fun but thanks to you !!

So im ausuming your the creator of this fine website? well if you ever have a open spot on any of your trips in yosemite id love to join and breakfast is on me.

Depending on the conditions maybe well do some off trail hiking from mount star king to merced lake ..looks like alot of streams ..if anything theres alot of room im sure well be fine.

ill post my trip probably on the 27th....

You misinterpreted what I meant. Or I said it wrong.
We don't have fires. Mainly it's pretty depressing to me to so many times go back to the same place and
see a new fire ring. Scaring the land. And too many times in an illegal location.
Yeah, I get that people want a campfire. We prefer the unspoiled air.

I have no affiliation whatsoever with this website. It's eeek's baby.
I do have a very large affinity with Yosemite though.

I've been told that "even bears hibernate" and very recently "that I should go south and do 'real' backpacking".
I just shake my head at such ridiculous comments.

Anyway, have a good trip... (even if you end up going up Yosemite Falls trail)

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Jpsfirstresponse
Ahh i see.

I like fires and could debate wether there bad for environment or if they contribute to what some have called global warming which most scientist have rejected and called a scame but thats neither here nor there. Wether its bad/good for the enviornment I think your policy is a good one and if a fire really is needed I agree location location location, responsible responsible responsible but unfortunately thats rare. I havnt built one that wasnt already there

No fires above 9600 ft elevation is the rule in Yosemite.

We disperse fire rings above 9,000 feet, kick down cairns, and follow the rules re: trails vs. cross country hikes - limit groups to 15 on trail, 8 when going off trail. Pack out toilet paper you use and pack out all trash (no burning plastic and other nasty junk in the fire if you have one!!!!), disperse wash water far away (more than 100 feet) from water sources, dig 6" or more deep catholes, and Take Only Pictures.

Do not throw food around (we've picked other people's pasta out of lakes! seen people washing dishes in streams!) or leave used TP for marmots to dig up and drag around.

Forget global warming. I'm really tired of folks assuming they are the only ones in the world going out there and leaving their $@%^ for other people to clean up. Don't take this as a lecture to you specifically... I'm venting frustration at the world of folks who go backpacking once and Just Don't Get they are not the only backpackers out there, and their junk is a fraction of a bigger picture and has a bigger impact than they think it will.

You can have fires if you like. Just follow the rules. Use small sticks, don't take an axe and hack up logs. NO ONE needs a friggin' axe. There are plenty of sticks.

Well i know exactly what your talking about, I was at lahemite creek and heres this guy right when im trying to filter water, hes washing his dishes in the creek uphill from me.It was so strong i could smell the mint flavor of the soap. I was so shocked and pissed. Copy on all the backpacker etiquette!

Ive seen stuff im like what the heck are you thinking, i know i have a brain fart every once in a while but what the $$%^.

God created it and made us his stewards so im on the same page with you!!

I'm not certain but I beleive the primary problem with fires over 9,600' is that there is generally very little dry trash wood available for constantly feeding a fire. If everybody was free to have fires at or above this altitude the habitat would be stripped of deadwood on both the ground and from dry limbs on what little surrounding tree growth exists. These dry branches are part of the natural habitat of the area and to strip it away changes that habitat in ways humans can not always understand. The same is true at lower levels but the NPS happened to pick 9,600' as the arbitray cut-off altutude. Last year my last camp site was at the 9,400' level well off the Rafferty Creek trail. It was a terrific out-of-the-way site for camping but it included one of those ubiquitous fire rings. I could not help notice that past campers using the fire ring had removed nearly every available piece of deadwood from the ground for hundreds of feet in every direction and there was ample evidence that numerous dead tree branches had been broken or twisted off from many of the surrounding trees just to feed fires. This is the antithesis of low impact camping. Not having an open fire is part of what "leaving no trace" is all about.

Campfires are for emergencies. And girls.