Re: People walking through your campsite

I know we talked about this a few months ago but I couldn't find the thread but I just had to to relate to you my experiences with this problem while I was in Yosemite Lower Pines last week. We were in 62 which is a "riverfront site". However about 5 yrs. ago the Park Service put up a split rail fence to keep people off of the riverbank area. So between our campsite and the river is a fence with about every 100 feet along it a post that says "campground boundary", which runs along the campsites bordering the fence,in effect creating an easement so people can walk along the fence along the river. This easement is about 3 ft. into your campsite along the fence. I have no problem with that and set up our camp accordingly. However after about our first hour there we experienced people walking into our campsite in effect creating a shortcut to the bathroom instead of walking the extra 12 ft. around the corner of our campsite along the fence. We had a 12 x 6ft. "grass" carpet laid out beside and in front of our trailer with our chairs on it, totally within our campsite. People were walking across it eventhough there was plenty of room to walk along the fence and then when reaching the campground road turn and head to the bathroom. So I decided to outline the path along the fence with pieces of thin firewood clearly outling an easement path about 3 ft. wide along the fence. I also stretched some clothesline rope between two trees that were along the campground road clearly funneling people into this path. This worked very well and people thanked us for allowing them to continue their walk along the river on the outskirts of our campsite. But I left a little area open from the front of the trailer along the last few feet of our pad and the campground road where the clothesline started. Since our chairs and bikes, etc. were in that area I though no one was going to walk right thru there instead of following the clearly marked path. WRONG! We were sitting in our chairs on the grass carpet when a lady walks right between our chairs and down towards the fence. I was dumfounded and speechless. Found out later she was a Yosemite Assn. volunteer who lives in those campsites on the west end of Lower Pines. She should have known better. About 10 minutes later she came back the other way but this time followed the path but still cut a corner and lifted up the rope and walked under it, eventhough the difference for not staying on the path was about a 5ft. savings. 10 minutes later an older couple steps over the clearly marked firewood pieces outling the path and walks right between my wife and I who are sitting in our chairs on the green grass rug 2ft. from our trailer and says, "how are you all today?'. This time I reeled around and said, " We'd be doing a lot better if you weren't walking right through our campsite between our chairs!" My wife thought I was rude.......... I then completed the "compound" with rope between the front of my trailer and the tree where the other rope started and didn't have any more trouble after that. I took the ropes down at night so none of these dummys would walk into them. Those were my worst experiences with people walking through my campsites. It would be the same as if you and your family were sitting around a campfire and someone squeezed in between your chairs to get somewhere.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/28/2011 02:44PM by mtn man.

Next time you might want to take one of these along:
http://missoulian.com/lifestyles/recreation/article_fbd680d6-97cf-11e0-8a94-001cc4c002e0.html
(P.S. Don't forget the tea.)

Instead of claiming territory, make a friend.

I made many friends, but completely rude and disrespectful people are not on my future friend list. I don't think you understood the layout here. Many people along the fence campsites push their campsite equipment right to the fence to completely block people form walking along the fence. This I have observed in sites 60, 41, 39 and 38. I not only did not do so, I created a path for people who would have otherwise walked around our campsite (or through) thus clearly giving them a path to walk along as the NPS had intended. The "compound" was eventually set up to try to keep the rude ones from walking right through my campsite when there was an obvious path to go from point A to point B. I was thanked by people who appreciated the fact that we didn't extend our campsite to the fence thus not blocking their walk along the fence.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/28/2011 03:42PM by mtn man.

I think you were being very accommodating and considerate to your fellow campers. Too bad that some of the other campers weren't so considerate. I was also a bit surprised that someone volunteering for the Yosemite Conservancy wouldn't know campground etiquette (or would choose to ignore it).

Next time, just use this: http://www.amazon.com/Crime-Scene-Tape/dp/B00152R7IK/ to help get the point across to the mentally challenged.

I won't go into details but I feel for you. We've had similar experiences... too many times...

Which is why we don't car camp anymore.

---

Quote
chick-on
I won't go into details but I feel for you. We've had similar experiences... too many times...

Which is why we don't car camp anymore.

But have you also experienced annoying "neighbors" camping in the backcountry? (Like someone else setting up camp too close to your camp.)

Quote
plawrence
But have you also experienced annoying "neighbors" camping in the backcountry? (Like someone else setting up camp too close to your camp.)

Does the moonlight shadow of a bear on a tent wall count?

Quote
eeek

Quote
plawrence
But have you also experienced annoying "neighbors" camping in the backcountry? (Like someone else setting up camp too close to your camp.)

Does the moonlight shadow of a bear on a tent wall count?

\

No. I would definitely welcome that. My daughter's boyfriend slept in a tent in our site (My daughter was in the trailer, yes we are old fashioned). He thought he saw such a shadow one night. We definitely welcomed all the squirrels, jays, ravens, etc. in our site. Hey Eeeek by any chance were you riding a bike through Lower Pines c.g approx. last wednesday? I thought I saw you.

Quote
mtn man
Hey Eeeek by any chance were you riding a bike through Lower Pines c.g approx. last wednesday? I thought I saw you.

No, last Wednesday I was riding a Prius on 395 heading south.

I regularly have to walk from the Trailhead Parking lot over to the Wilderness Campground.
I like to short-cut across Upper Pines, which means I end up struggling with the issue of how to walk through the campground while minimizing intruding on the campsites.

I view it as an issue of trying to stay as far away from the core of the individual campsites as possible.
Never walk between chairs/tables/tents/car/firepit/bearbox/RV/trailer.
Try to find the space between adjacent sites, i.e. walk between tents from two different campsites.
Avoid sites with people.
Don't do what you wouldn't want done if you were sitting in the site!
Don't cross lines that people have laid to define their territory.
That's really what it boils down to. Every site is a separate territory. You don't walk into someone else's campsite just like you don't walk uninvited thru the front door of some else's house.
It seems to me to just be common courtesy!

Quote
eeek

Quote
plawrence
But have you also experienced annoying "neighbors" camping in the backcountry? (Like someone else setting up camp too close to your camp.)

Does the moonlight shadow of a bear on a tent wall count?

Only if it was a bear that was annoying...

Quote
plawrence

Quote
eeek

Quote
plawrence
But have you also experienced annoying "neighbors" camping in the backcountry? (Like someone else setting up camp too close to your camp.)

Does the moonlight shadow of a bear on a tent wall count?

Only if it was a bear that was annoying...

It was a backpacking trip in the days of hanging food. So, yes, he was annoying since I had to get out of my bag and chase him off. Still not sure how he managed to wake me out.

Quote
plawrence

Quote
chick-on
I won't go into details but I feel for you. We've had similar experiences... too many times...

Which is why we don't car camp anymore.

But have you also experienced annoying "neighbors" camping in the backcountry? (Like someone else setting up camp too close to your camp.)

I have told this story too many times, but it is so appropriate to your query...

We set up camp near a lake, but not too close to break the rules. We owned the lake....so we thought. Along comes 25 group hikers (it was a couple of groups that had joined together!) and they decended apon our 'neighborhood' -- quickly turning it into something like a tent city. We were beyond shocked at the proximity. I settled for quietly grumbling, but Carole -- our resident Southerner -- lets out with the loudest voices of : "gawdammit!! Where the #$^&** is that gawd$%&*$ed bottle of WHISKEY??!!! If someone dont fess up, there gonna be HE&& to PAY!!!!!!!" (all the while, she was banging pots/pans & tossing things) 15min later, the other campers had scattered to the four winds....really funny to talk about all night.

---

The body betrays and the weather conspires, hopefully, not on the same day.

Quote
Bee

Quote
plawrence

Quote
chick-on
I won't go into details but I feel for you. We've had similar experiences... too many times...

Which is why we don't car camp anymore.

But have you also experienced annoying "neighbors" camping in the backcountry? (Like someone else setting up camp too close to your camp.)

I have told this story too many times, but it is so appropriate to your query...

We set up camp near a lake, but not too close to break the rules. We owned the lake....so we thought. Along comes 25 group hikers (it was a couple of groups that had joined together!) and they decended apon our 'neighborhood' -- quickly turning it into something like a tent city. We were beyond shocked at the proximity. I settled for quietly grumbling, but Carole -- our resident Southerner -- lets out with the loudest voices of : "gawdammit!! Where the #$^&** is that gawd$%&*$ed bottle of WHISKEY??!!! If someone dont fess up, there gonna be HE&& to PAY!!!!!!!" (all the while, she was banging pots/pans & tossing things) 15min later, the other campers had scattered to the four winds....really funny to talk about all night.

I love it.

I'll have to remember that trick.

Quote
eeek
I'll have to remember that trick.

I could have used it last weekend, although in using it I probably wouldn't have gotten my pictures of the bear they attracted (the bear would, sadly, have been fed elsewhere, so there's no difference from an environmental standpoint).

Quote
plawrence

Quote
chick-on
I won't go into details but I feel for you. We've had similar experiences... too many times...

Which is why we don't car camp anymore.

But have you also experienced annoying "neighbors" camping in the backcountry? (Like someone else setting up camp too close to your camp.)

Maybe a few times in 15 years+ of going on a ridiculous basis.
You can kind of figure out quite easily where people are going to be and just avoid those areas.
If there are people then just move on another 1/2 mile or so and stealth camp.
If I'm alone then no way I'm camping anywhere near anyone. I'll go miles to get away from people.
Not having to be next to water works wonders...

---

This is probably one of the most common complaints among campers. It seems that the smaller the sites the more likely the problem.

BTW, I would have said something also.

In North Pines, we have our "regular" site which is located right by a trail (the site is one of the largest I've seen). We get people not only walking right through our site, but riding bikes between our tents!! And the trail is not paved, so they are riding on dirt. I am a very friendly and social person, but this type of behavior is just rude! I usually say something like "please use the path" or "please go around (motioning the path)" but to no avail.

Last year when we arrived someone from the next site over had set their tent up in the middle of our campsite. I asked them to please move (we had three tents and a shade tent). They grumbled a little as our site and views were much better, but complied.

So basically, I feel your pain

Quote
robinjayp
Last year when we arrived someone from the next site over had set their tent up in the middle of our campsite. I asked them to please move (we had three tents and a shade tent). They grumbled a little as our site and views were much better, but complied.

Did they offer an explanation why they were camped in the middle of your campsite?

And of course they complied. (I doubt that they would had any other sort of recourse.)

The people who had the site before us were in a motorhome (we arrived at noon when they were just getting ready to leave), so they were not using the rest of the site (no tarps, tents). It's a large site with great views so I can see the desire to set up where they did, but it isn't right.

It is hard to see where one site starts and another ends with some of the sites (no boundaries, markers). I usually the parking pads as a gauge (the picnic bench and bear box are usually inside of the parking pads). I know that some of the sites can get tight, but there was plenty of space here.

I would have said something as well. I'd like to think I'd be light-hearted enough to come up with something witty, but the more frustrated I get the less witty I get.

Quote
itchbay
I would have said something as well. I'd like to think I'd be light-hearted enough to come up with something witty, but the more frustrated I get the less witty I get.

Like maybe "itchy"?

---

Old Dude

Exactly. Although I prefer the term "snarky."

Actually, I'm a recovering "nice" person who is working on becoming less "nice" and more "kind." Kindness involves honesty to my own needs as well as the needs of others. In this case, I think the kind response was putting up the ropes and laying down the wood to delineate the path along the fence. But the next step for the dummies who continued to walk through the campsite would be to stop them and explain how much of a disruption it is. I'm sure they're just so overwhelmed by being on vacation in such a beautiful place that they're not aware of how they're acting.

I used to live in Healdsburg, CA, which over the years has turned into a vacation destination for antiquer collectors and wine-os. I was always amazed at how people would just walk out into traffic because they saw something in a window across the street. People get stupid on vacation.

Quote
itchbay
People get stupid on vacation.

I've noticed that too... Just don't understand the pathology of that disease.

Quote
itchbay
I would have said something as well. I'd like to think I'd be light-hearted enough to come up with something witty, but the more frustrated I get the less witty I get.

You can also resort to this. If it doesn't work as advertised, fill with something clever. Or you could just buzz them.

I must admit that I did walk through someones camp one night. IT WAS RIGHT ON THE TRAIL!!

---

Old Dude

Hmmmm, I could always go for the "sorry, didn't see you in MY site" in response to getting super soaked!

Awesome suggestion!

But for all of the "unaware of campground etiquette" people out there, there are so many nice people too! We've had people give us leftover firewood, full bags of marshmallows, and even alcohol. We've met wonderful people who share their favorite places, ideal places to see wildlife, share stories, etc.

I think it is true that when we reserve a "space" we feel a little violated when someone walks through it. After all, you leave your things in the "space" when you are not there and I know I get a little territorial with my chairs, tent, food in the bear box, etc. I have never had anything taken (except water) and would like to think that people are generally honest and polite, but then I would just be naive.

Still, I love camping, even in Yosemite!

Ha! We *do* have a RC helicopter. But I fear bringing that on vacation would just attract more dummies to our campsite.

Some of the problems are that some people don't know "campground etiquette". However, moving anything in someone else's campsite or walking between chairs and a campfire is more than just not knowing "campground etiquette". Sometimes its just not caring.

Quote
itchbay
Ha! We *do* have a RC helicopter. But I fear bringing that on vacation would just attract more dummies to our campsite.

Even with tiny body-heat seeking missiles?

When you reserve a campsite, you are basically renting a space and you want your "space" to be respected. Our last campsite was near a restroom and it is difficult to persuade people to walk a few extra steps around. We put up a tiny backpacking hammock and were reprimanded by a ranger...our soft nylon rope may damage the trees it was hanging on. (Last year, we noticed that the hammock was all tangled up one morning. Obviously someone ran into it during the night cutting through our camp...ha.)

Meanwhile our neighbors just to the west of us gathered pine needles, pine cones, had morning fires and left their trash bag out. (That made for some good squirrel and crow entertainment though.) Their kids rode bikes (without helmets) all through the camp. There were many people riding through the campsites...more and more each year.

In the first part of the week, my husband asked each of four pre-teen girls kitty corner from our site to please walk around our camp. not between us and the fire, or between our chairs or on our pad under our awning. Boy did they have attitudes.

One time, people sat in my sister's chairs under her awning. We can't believe the lack of boundaries and this etiquette is being taught to the next generation. Go on vacation and leave your brains at home.

Actually this last week Thur-Sat the campgrounds were a lot less busy/noisy/crazy than out in the rest of the valley!

Thanks for a place to rant. Now for the subjects...photo etiquette, driving etiquette, bike path etiquette, etc...

Personally, I don't have a problem with people cutting corners or walking within -- but on the periphery -- of my campsite, but a good number of people feel that it's perfectly o.k. to go right through the middle of someone's campsite. I would love to know where these people lived so I could cut right across their front, side, or backyards of their homes. I'm sure that they would enjoy that too.

I imagine they're the same as people who live in my neighborhood who tend to come home late, slam their car doors, yell at each other the entire distance between their car and their front door, and then slam that door as well.

I had to call my parents and thank them for teaching my sister and me how to be aware of the other people around me and to put myself in their shoes. I'm not always perfect, but I try. And that's something that I think these other people have forgotten how to do.

I share mtn_man's and robinjayp's pains. I may not have shared them as much but I've encountered rude folks who just trod into your campsite or encroach into your area to avail of a better view or orientation.

The latter happened to us when we were in Sequioia NP and we happened to have a canyon site that got the right amount of sun and shade. The folks on the adjacent site decided to pitch their tent right over the boundary and into our site. We called the camp hosts on them.

I depends on the campground layout. I've been to a few campgrounds where the sites are well spaced and generally it would be difficult for someone to cross a site. I'm talking about ones where the boundaries are well defined by bushes and/or thick tree growth.

Then there is the issue of certain campgrounds where the sites are really poorly defined. The Valley Backpackers' Campground doesn't have well defined sites. Sometimes the way to the bathroom is to walk between a picnic table and where someone has set up a tent. Not only that, but there is the possibility of groups/people having to double up on sites if it's full.

mtn man, I agree 100% with all you (and others of like mind here) have said.

robinjayp, re: "We've had people give us leftover firewood, full bags of marshmallows, and even alcohol." - I must be camping in the wrong sites, dang it!

and lastly "Hey Eeeek by any chance were you riding a bike through Lower Pines c.g approx. last wednesday? I thought I saw you." - Probably just
some eeek impersonator trying to get a rise out of campers!

Quote
PineCone
Probably just some eeek impersonator trying to get a rise out of campers!

I was in the Valley on Tuesday to pick up a friend that was coming down Snow Creek. Also on Monday for a short time after I came down the Four Mile Trail.

Very large group with too many cars. They asked to park one in our area since it was just the two of us. We played nice and were well rewarded with bbq, firewood and booze. They were respectful and quiet, so we had no problems with them. Rangers did not seem to care either. For once playing nice paid off!

I think I've said this in another thread, but get a cheap plastic clothesline(like mtn man wrote above)! Best thing I ever did. I got mine at the Dollar store, years ago and the thing is sooo long that I can go all the way around those tiny campground a couple of times. If I'm nice, I'll hang towels across it, so people see it and not run into it, but I'm not usually feeling as nice as that, when it comes to an invasion of privacy.---Let them run into it. Another great deterrent is a mediumlarge territorial dog. Sometimes I'll bring my Australian Shepherd (the best hiking/camping dog in the world) and I haven't any lazy-ass campers short cutting through my site. Unfortunately, dogs are limiting as to what you can do in the park.

Another hint (I learned this the hard way), do not camp next to/infront of (etc.) a bathroom. Campers will cut through/walk right next to your site to get to it. I got the pleasure of hearing foreigners drink all night and run to the bathroom to barf for hours and hours-good times!...turns out they were squatting in an empty site, illegally...long story.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/30/2011 12:40PM by Red Lipstick.

It is sad that it has to come to roping off your campsite. I have taught my kids from the time they were little that you don't walk through other people's sites. I was camping in Lower Pines the same week as Mtn Man. I walked down the road to look at the flooding near site 62 and saw his campsite all roped off. I had originally thought of stopping by to say "hello" but all the rope looked a little too forbidding so I kept on going.

Quote
shaunsmomo
It is sad that it has to come to roping off your campsite. I have taught my kids from the time they were little that you don't walk through other people's sites. I was camping in Lower Pines the same week as Mtn Man. I walked down the road to look at the flooding near site 62 and saw his campsite all roped off. I had originally thought of stopping by to say "hello" but all the rope looked a little too forbidding so I kept on going.

It wasn't "all roped off". The western corner of it was, nearest to the trailer to the road,where people were walking right beteween our chairs, but it was quite obvious that it was open along the fence where the "easement" was established by the NPS. There was no rope on the north or east or south side. I rode my bike past your site #7 a few times but didn't see anyone around as if I had I was going to say hi.

We had some very nice encounters with fellow campers while we were there. One evening on the way to the Lower Pines ampitheater we observed some kids (20's) cutting up some water bottles and realized they were making cups out of the bottom of their water bottles. I sent my son running back to the trailer to get some plastic cups for them. They were from France and between my high school french and their broken English we had some laughs together. And they shared their wine with us.

We met a lot of people who skirted our campsite along the now well defined path as we said hello to everyone who did so. Many kids had a great time riding their bikes on the camp road going though the flooded area near the front of our trailer down around #62. It was a real kick to watch them but the campground ranger came around and told them not to ride through there anymore. Not sure why. Too bad, they were having a great time.

I guess anyone walking down the camp road and seeing our trailer with the rope could look at it as stand-offish, not knowing the story behind it......... I've never done that before.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 06/30/2011 06:14PM by mtn man.

We were in site 20. Others from our group were in 4, 7 and 13. We all had a great time. Saw two bears while hiking!

shaunsmomo, the majority of campers are decent and respectful of others like yourself, but I sympathize
with mtn man. I have encountered my share of inconsiderate people over the years while camping.
The bottom line is you are renting that space, the campsite, the same way you rent a hotel room.
No one would think of walking through the front door of your ground floor Yosemite Lodge room
for instance if it were open, and out the door in back to take a shortcut to the bicycle path.
But some campers I have noticed have the erroneous idea that they have just as much right as you do
to your campsite, and can tramp through it anytime and anywhere.
Talk to anyone who has ever stayed in North Pines #502 or #504, beautiful sites, but many people walk
back and forth thru them all day to go to Tenaya Creek or Merced River!

Speaking of people having no respect for someone else's campsite: While we there last week (Lower Pines) we returned about 1 pm one day from a walk and there was a red Jaguar parked between 62 and 64 on the dirt of the campground, not in a turnout, actually parked in the campsite area. They were picknicing in site 64 eventhough site 64 was occupied with a car on the parking pad and tent in the campsite. The family had gone for a day hike. They used this family's picnic table and, get this, built a fire in these people's fire pit to warm their lunch! (no fires allowed til 5 p.m.) So I talked to the male when he went back to the car to get something and said he might want to move his car before the ranger comes by, and there are no fires allowed til 5 p.m.; advised him this wasn't a picknic ground and showed him where some picnic areas were. So he moves his car into someone else's campsite pad (they hadn't arrived yet). He goes back to 64 and he and his girfriend/wife put out a mat and lay down on it. Then the campers whose site he was now parked in arrive and he goes over and moves his car out of that site and parks it in the middle of the camp road right in front of my vehicle. He and his companion then wander down to the river and strip down to their underwear and with soap and towels take a bath in the river leaving their car blocking the camp road. Then they come back and spread their pad out in site 64 again and lay down. Meanwhile the fire is still smoking and the rightful occupants of 64 return from their hike. The campsite invaders get up and walk to their car. Now I thought they were finally going to leave. Wrong. They leave their car blocking the road and walk about 200ft. down the river and put out their pad again. They are now totally out of sight of their car so its not going to get moved if a car comes along, and I would have to squeeze out of my site and go the wrong way to get out of there. Enough was enough and I called dispatch and they sent a ranger out. I explained to the ranger what this couple had been up to and he walked over to them and had them come back to their car. They gave him a little lip and he lectured them about blocking the road etc. and then gave them a warning and let them go. Oh, and when they finally left I watched them drive down two addtitional loops in the campground ,going the wrong way, obviously looking for somewhere else in the campground to hang out. We laugh about it now.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 07/01/2011 09:16AM by mtn man.