Re: Understanding trailhead rules

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Alexbaird
Before I get a Wilderness Permit I want to check if my proposed route is ok. I have searched long and hard but can't seem to find an answer to my question (maybe it's just too obvious!)

I want to enter at Porcupine Creek, go south through Snow Creek then past Half Dome and up the JMT to Tuolumne Meadows 3 or 4 days later. First off, is it possible to do this route, which I think means going past Happy Isles, without needing another Wilderness Permit at Happy Isles?

Secondly, would it be possible to have a pitt stop at Curry Village (which would definitely mean leaving the trail for a short time and having to re-enter)?

Basically, I don't want to stop at Curry Village for a break, then find out I am not allowed back onto the path.

I would be very grateful if someone could point me in the right direction!

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Alexbaird
Oh ok. I will be going in September. There are no permits available to reserve from Yosemite Valley.

Would we be able to walk past Happy Isles (i.e. down Snow Creek, past Mirror Lake and then round the corner towards Half Dome) on our original permit?

Basically, does walking that route involve passing any new trailheads and therefor needing new permits? The maps are quite unclear about this.

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Alexbaird
Before I get a Wilderness Permit I want to check if my proposed route is ok. I have searched long and hard but can't seem to find an answer to my question (maybe it's just too obvious!)

I want to enter at Porcupine Creek, go south through Snow Creek then past Half Dome and up the JMT to Tuolumne Meadows 3 or 4 days later. First off, is it possible to do this route, which I think means going past Happy Isles, without needing another Wilderness Permit at Happy Isles?

Secondly, would it be possible to have a pitt stop at Curry Village (which would definitely mean leaving the trail for a short time and having to re-enter)?

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AlmostThere

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Alexbaird
Before I get a Wilderness Permit I want to check if my proposed route is ok. I have searched long and hard but can't seem to find an answer to my question (maybe it's just too obvious!)

I want to enter at Porcupine Creek, go south through Snow Creek then past Half Dome and up the JMT to Tuolumne Meadows 3 or 4 days later. First off, is it possible to do this route, which I think means going past Happy Isles, without needing another Wilderness Permit at Happy Isles?

Secondly, would it be possible to have a pitt stop at Curry Village (which would definitely mean leaving the trail for a short time and having to re-enter)?

To reiterate, when you leave the wilderness for more than the few minutes it would take to cross a road, you need another permit to enter it. You cannot backpack on roads, non-wilderness trails, or other non wilderness areas. At that point you cease to be backpacking.

You are exiting the wilderness at Snow Creek TH and walking in non-wilderness, aka the valley floor. You need two permits. I'd do a walk in for the section you most want to do, not try to patch together something from a distant trailhead - try for permit from Mono Meadow, Glacier Point, Happy Isles to LYV, Happy Isles passthrough, Sunrise, Cathedral or Tuolumne Meadows itself, and toward Half Dome from there.

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mrcondron

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AlmostThere

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Alexbaird
Before I get a Wilderness Permit I want to check if my proposed route is ok. I have searched long and hard but can't seem to find an answer to my question (maybe it's just too obvious!)

I want to enter at Porcupine Creek, go south through Snow Creek then past Half Dome and up the JMT to Tuolumne Meadows 3 or 4 days later. First off, is it possible to do this route, which I think means going past Happy Isles, without needing another Wilderness Permit at Happy Isles?

Secondly, would it be possible to have a pitt stop at Curry Village (which would definitely mean leaving the trail for a short time and having to re-enter)?

To reiterate, when you leave the wilderness for more than the few minutes it would take to cross a road, you need another permit to enter it. You cannot backpack on roads, non-wilderness trails, or other non wilderness areas. At that point you cease to be backpacking.

You are exiting the wilderness at Snow Creek TH and walking in non-wilderness, aka the valley floor. You need two permits. I'd do a walk in for the section you most want to do, not try to patch together something from a distant trailhead - try for permit from Mono Meadow, Glacier Point, Happy Isles to LYV, Happy Isles passthrough, Sunrise, Cathedral or Tuolumne Meadows itself, and toward Half Dome from there.

Notice in the above map of trailheads that if all you say is correct then one would need at least four permits to go from White Wolf, east to Yosemite Creek, then south across 120 exiting wilderness, down toward Yosemite Creek Campground where there is again where there is a break in the wilderness as the trail goes through the campground, then back north across the road into Yosemite Campground exiting the wilderness, up to 120 again leaving the wilderness, past Lukens Lake back to White Wolf.
One permit would allow one to do this loop. The legs would be entered on the permit at the time of issue.

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wherever

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mrcondron

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AlmostThere

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Alexbaird
Before I get a Wilderness Permit I want to check if my proposed route is ok. I have searched long and hard but can't seem to find an answer to my question (maybe it's just too obvious!)

I want to enter at Porcupine Creek, go south through Snow Creek then past Half Dome and up the JMT to Tuolumne Meadows 3 or 4 days later. First off, is it possible to do this route, which I think means going past Happy Isles, without needing another Wilderness Permit at Happy Isles?

Secondly, would it be possible to have a pitt stop at Curry Village (which would definitely mean leaving the trail for a short time and having to re-enter)?

To reiterate, when you leave the wilderness for more than the few minutes it would take to cross a road, you need another permit to enter it. You cannot backpack on roads, non-wilderness trails, or other non wilderness areas. At that point you cease to be backpacking.

You are exiting the wilderness at Snow Creek TH and walking in non-wilderness, aka the valley floor. You need two permits. I'd do a walk in for the section you most want to do, not try to patch together something from a distant trailhead - try for permit from Mono Meadow, Glacier Point, Happy Isles to LYV, Happy Isles passthrough, Sunrise, Cathedral or Tuolumne Meadows itself, and toward Half Dome from there.

Notice in the above map of trailheads that if all you say is correct then one would need at least four permits to go from White Wolf, east to Yosemite Creek, then south across 120 exiting wilderness, down toward Yosemite Creek Campground where there is again where there is a break in the wilderness as the trail goes through the campground, then back north across the road into Yosemite Campground exiting the wilderness, up to 120 again leaving the wilderness, past Lukens Lake back to White Wolf.
One permit would allow one to do this loop. The legs would be entered on the permit at the time of issue.

Humpf. You guys are talking like a bunch of freshman lawyers. We already went through this sort of thing when we argued about camping along the Pohono Trail, which was technically too close to some road thousands of feet below in the Valley. Yes, the rules would technically prohibit it. Actually, the rangers tend to have some common sense.

Try calling the wilderness office at 209 372-0740. Call them at an hour when they aren't insanely busy, which they are when they open every morning. Ask your question. If the answer is "no", ask why. If it's "OK" get the ranger's name, so you know whom to ask for if you have trouble when you get your permit. List the expected route on the permit.

If what you want is listed on the permit, it's unlikely that any ranger on the trail is going to object. They have enough real problems, and don't spend a lot of time on legal nitpicking. (Of course, people on this forum sometimes do have more time than they know what to do with)...

Finally, be flexible. If you can't do exactly what you wanted, there are still a zillion other great trips to do.

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Humpf. You guys are talking like a bunch of freshman lawyers. We already went through this sort of thing when we argued about camping along the Pohono Trail, which was technically too close to some road thousands of feet below in the Valley. Yes, the rules would technically prohibit it. Actually, the rangers tend to have some common sense.

The body betrays and the weather conspires, hopefully, not on the same day.

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Bee
Wow. I really hope that this thread does not take a contentious detour, because the query is legit, and there are many of us who are not around consistantly enough to have total recall on oblique references to other discussions/threads. With every "new" question, comes a whole new audience that may have little to no knowledge on the topic, so any inside references may be lost on us.
.

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Notice in the above map of trailheads that if all you say is correct then one would need at least four permits to go from White Wolf, east to Yosemite Creek, then south across 120 exiting wilderness, down toward Yosemite Creek Campground where there is again where there is a break in the wilderness as the trail goes through the campground, then back north across the road into Yosemite Campground exiting the wilderness, up to 120 again leaving the wilderness, past Lukens Lake back to White Wolf.
One permit would allow one to do this loop. The legs would be entered on the permit at the time of issue.

Humpf. You guys are talking like a bunch of freshman lawyers. We already went through this sort of thing when we argued about camping along the Pohono Trail, which was technically too close to some road thousands of feet below in the Valley. Yes, the rules would technically prohibit it. Actually, the rangers tend to have some common sense.

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AlmostThere

Actually I'm talking like someone who stands in line in the wilderness office and listens to people argue with rangers, patiently, while waiting for my own permit. Coz that's exactly what I am.

Calling the wilderness office is a good idea, if there's any doubt left. You may get inconsistent information - we often do - because different rangers are in different stages of training.... There's not really any debate about where the wilderness permit is valid. You leave the wilderness, you don't have one anymore.

Crossing roads isn't the issue. Crossing roads is permissible. Walking on roads, sitting down in a snack bar, etc. is not. You are contradicting this in the example - the trail goes through the campground. Staying on the trail means staying within your permit. The trails in the valley floor aren't wilderness trails, they are paved tourist trails.

When a ranger tells me this has changed, I'll let you know.

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mbear
On another note, what do the rangers think of people taking chick-on approved routes off-trail? I'd never lie about where I was going (what a slap in the face that would be to SAR if I turned up missing), but I wonder if someone the rangers didn't already know pretty well would get the wilderness permit.

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ttilley

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mbear
On another note, what do the rangers think of people taking chick-on approved routes off-trail? I'd never lie about where I was going (what a slap in the face that would be to SAR if I turned up missing), but I wonder if someone the rangers didn't already know pretty well would get the wilderness permit.

Having done such routes myself...they just write the permit so long as you've reserved the trailhead or it has open slots.

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steelcup
The way I overheard a ranger at the permit station in the valley explain it, you can cross a road and re-enter via another trailhead but the second you get in a bus or car, or buy a hot dog, your wilderness experience ends and so does your permit.

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Alexbaird

I just spoke to someone at the Wilderness Center, she said that it is not possible to pass through the valley on one permit so, as suggested above, I think we will go via Tenaya Lake.

It is interesting though that you are able to stop en-route at Tuolumne Meadows without any issues.

Anyway, all sorted now, thanks for the help.

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vdrummer
applying for a permit by fax

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vdrummer
In July 2005, rangers at the T Meadows Permit Center had no problem giving me a permit to enter Murphy Creek and exit Happy Isles. The route, which I showed them before they gave me the permit, went through Glen Aulin, crossed the Tioga Road near Pothole Dome, and continued past Cathedral Lakes and Clouds Rest. The ranger that issued the permit knew I was crossing a road and had no problem with it.