Re: Food recommendations for a long-term backcountry trip?

A question for experienced long-range backpackers here:

It has been a couple of years since I have been to Yosemite, and I really want to make about a two week trip or two 1 week trips in the backcountry this coming summer. I'm not sure exactly which trip yet, other than a 14-day option needing to make a stop halfway through at TM to refill my bear can (no way I'm carrying two cans at once). Back on point, I have never done a trip that long; I have only gone up to 3 nights where I can do about 10 miles and a couple thousand feet in a day ok with a pack. I'm sure I'll have to plan meals way more carefully to keep from getting my butt kicked over the longer period. I'm a pretty skinny guy so I know I cannot afford a big calorie deficiency over such a period.

On my short trips I have packed tons of lightly salted peanuts, some metrx meal replacement bars, baby ruths and snickers, oatmeal with powdered milk, ramen noodles, powdered gatorade, and beef jerky/dried sausage (last two only since they taste good). I can't see any reason to buy crap like Mountain House when the calorie counts look so lousy for the freeze-dried dinners. What changes should I make to ensure the best chance of not getting worn into the ground by 2 weeks of consistent hiking with a pack? I'm definitely not looking to do any cross country with a pack on, though maybe as a dayhike from camp I wouldn't rule out class 3 or lower. Are the gels decent to use? Are the peanuts enough protein? Can one afford to cut out the dried meats? Or would I need them, or perhaps be better off with tuna in foil? Olive oil seems like something I should definitely add. I don't care the slightest bit about how things taste; if dog turds had good fuel value per unit weight I'd pack them. Not having to cook would be a huge plus too (yes, I eat the ramen noodles uncooked, lol). Thanks.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 11/25/2011 12:28PM by mbear.

Okay, the dog turds definitely put you in the "eat to live" category rather than the "live to eat."

Have you thought about scheduling a dinner or two at a High Sierra Camp? Arrive in the afternoon, set up camp, shower, then have some real food for dinner and some conversations with someone other than yourself.

I think that other forums with a dedicated food topic will offer more ideas for menu planning. Home dehydrated food or purchased & repackaged meals generally offer the best flavor, calories, and taste. The Backpacker magazine forum is a good one, but the regulars on that forum also hang out on other hiking/food forums.

Mountain House and Backpackers Pantry really aren't as disgusting as dog turds. Some meals have lots of calories, all have lots of sodium, and they're easy to find in stores. I don't choose to eat them, but my husband still likes a few of the MH meals.

A favorite non-cooked meal is bean burritos. Dehydrate your own beans or buy them dehydrated, then rehydrate with cold water. Add whatever you want from fresh cabbage to rehydrated rice to Taco Bell salsa. And be sure that your tortillas have plenty of preservatives; don't buy the specialty ones at Trader Joes (unless you like fuzzy green tortillas.) Buy the ones that are the size of the bottom of your bear canister.

Are you talking about beans that have already been mixed with pork lard, like refried?

Pork lard? Yikes! Even when I used to eat meat, I never ate pork lard.

I make my own "refried" beans. Dried beans, soaked, simmered, seasoned. Then I mash them and dehydrate. Finally I run them thru the Cuisinart to be sure they're really finely chopped and are easy to rehydrate. Seasoning varies ... salsa, cooked onions, cumin, chipotle in adobo, mixed peppers. Some people add 'hamburger gravel' to the dried beans.

Pack-It Gourmet has black bean flakes: http://www.packitgourmet.com/Black-Bean-Flakes-Organic-p319.html Sarah's TrailCooking website is full of great recipes, including this easy one for Rice & Beans: http://www.trailcooking.com/recipes/rice-beans Peruse some of her website for some easy ideas. You could also just buy an instant bean soup mix (like Nile soup cup) and put it in a freezer bag.

But all these ideas are fully explored on food forums of other hiking websites. This forum is ideal for trail planning (and enjoying other people's photos & trip reports.) Do you have some ideas about where you'd like to hike? When you'd like to go?

Quote
NacciNW
Pork lard? Yikes! Even when I used to eat meat, I never ate pork lard.

Why not?

http://www.ske-art.com/skestuff9/B001GRLPNW

Quote
eeek

Quote
NacciNW
Pork lard? Yikes! Even when I used to eat meat, I never ate pork lard.

Why not?

http://www.ske-art.com/skestuff9/B001GRLPNW

How about kosher bacon-flavored salt?

http://www.jdfoods.net/products/baconsalt.php
http://www.jdfoods.net/products/kosher.php

Then there's their revolutionary product - Baconlube.

http://www.baconlube.com

I'm under the impression that I would need about 4000 calories a day to not lose too much weight (I'm about 170lb), so that's why I was wondering if lard was included in the beans (that, and that either back lard or bacon grease are the standard thing beans are usually fried in). I'd be looking in early August probably (date not definite by any means), depending on what kind of winter the area has. Really, there are so many things in the park that look interesting to me, as I have only dayhiked and camped frontcountry in Yosemite. Right off hand, the places that look most interesting to me:

- Lyell Canyon to see Lyell, Banner, 1000 Island Lake, and maybe around to the other side (can't remember the name of the lake right now) to see the glacier between Banner and Ritter... so maybe I haven't totally ruled out x-country, lol.
- Conness because it's high and can be scrambled up (maybe early August would be too early to not encounter ice?) That plateau there looks pretty interesting too.
- Grand Canyon of the Tuolumne, since the GCT pics I see in TRs are amazing and since it would give me a chance to check out the famous Table Lake chick-on is always recommending. I guess this one would be heavily dependent on what kind of winter the area has.
- Merced Lake with side-trips up Liberty Cap and down Illilouette Gorge look pretty interesting. Maybe giving the Diving Board a try (and turning back if I ever feel it's getting too hairy). ARGGGHH... a few years ago I could have paid for the whole trip by filtering and selling water past Nevada to the Half Dome mob (jk)
- Hoffman since I immediately wanted to go up it after looking back and seeing it while on the switchbacks on Sunrise over to Clouds (last day in the park so couldn't do both!)
- Tenaya Peak for the view of the lake and then a jaunt over to do Clouds again
- Snow Creek and North Dome just for the views of Half Dome

Too much cool stuff to see, but plenty of time to figure a plan out.

Remember it's all got to go in a bear can. I recommend a Bearikade. Expensive but you will enjoy more space, less weight for the canister itself, a much larger opening to get stuff into and out of, and a nice wide seat for your tired hiker bum. You can do the math on the by-mail rental vs. buying one. I'd go with the middle size, and resupply at TM once. There is a hiker box in the store, plus the store itself has a rack of the dreaded MH and BP meals, plus all kinds of other goodies like cup a soups, etc. You can probably mail a box to them to hold for you too.

Quote
AlmostThere
Remember it's all got to go in a bear can. I recommend a Bearikade. Expensive but you will enjoy more space, less weight for the canister itself, a much larger opening to get stuff into and out of, and a nice wide seat for your tired hiker bum. You can do the math on the by-mail rental vs. buying one. I'd go with the middle size, and resupply at TM once. There is a hiker box in the store, plus the store itself has a rack of the dreaded MH and BP meals, plus all kinds of other goodies like cup a soups, etc. You can probably mail a box to them to hold for you too.

I'd love a Bearikade, but it's a bit out of my price range. I have a Garcia that I got a while back for a short trip into the Beartooths though. If I ever end up doing a really long distance trip like the JMT, I'd certainly buy an Expedition.

Can you clarify a bit on what you mean by the hiker box? E.g., is it a place you can just cache food like a bear box, or would you be renting a locker (and if so, do you know the charge)? I was initially planning to mail a food resupply to the post office in TM, but those other possibilities sound like they could be more convenient. Thanks.

The hiker box at the Tuolomne Meadows store is a free box. Leave any packaged food or gas cans you have left over after your trip. There are backpackers and climbers that will be happy for it.
There are plenty of bear boxes around Tuolomne where you can cache the food for a week. Be neatly organized about it, as in put it in a cardboard box with your name on it and date of return, that way nobody will mistake it for trash.
You can also mail yourself a package to Tuolomne as the post office window is next to the store.
The store carries a variety of camper / backpacker food, but you can never be certain of the assortment. Mail / cache the bulk of what you need and supplement by purchasing some fresh stuff, gas canister and luxuries such as ice cream and beer for your layover / resupply day.
The grill next to the store has burgers and the like. Tastes great after a few days on the trail.

Further: hiker boxes are common in resupply spots along the PCT. Hikers get tired of instant potatoes or whatever else they took lots of, leave those in the box, take something else some other hiker was tired of. Last time I looked the TM box had variable quantities of toilet paper, various meals and bars, and something unidentifiable in a ziploc. There are similar boxes in spots like Vermillion Resort, Muir Trail Ranch, the store at Reds Meadow, etc.

The TM backpacker campground is a popular spot for thru hikers to stop due to the proximity of the store and grill.

You don't think you can afford a Bearikade but I can tell you that you can immediately turn around and resell the thing in a heartbeat - those things nearly never appear anywhere used. They are too nice and people are reluctant to let go of them. Posting it somewhere like backpackinglight.com for $50 less than you paid, it would be snapped up in a flash. They never go on sale.

The rental cost is something like two or three bucks per day, and the rental process is effortless - you will get it in the mail three days before you are scheduled to start hiking. When you get home, you pop it back in the box and send it back to them after cleaning out any debris. Easy Peasy. I intend to rent or buy one for my planned HST/JMT hike this coming year.

Quote
mbear
I'm under the impression that I would need about 4000 calories a day to not lose too much weight (I'm about 170lb),

Wow! It sounds like you have a super high metabolism. I would have thought just over half of that, about 2400 - 2800, would do nicely (roughly 1.2 - 1.4 PPPD). I'm 150 lbs with a fairly high metabolism, a veggie and I usually consume only around 1800 - 2200 cal / day. I sometimes come back with left over food and rarely lose any weight unless I don't hydrate properly. Your mileage may vary. To top off my cal count--instead of pork lard--I like using nut-, seed- and coconut butters. They're mostly good quality fats (but some also have protein), nutrient-rich and high calorie density (about 180 cal / oz). There's a tasty variety; they're not too filling, and they go nicely on oats or by themselves as snacks or desserts. I've been using Artisana individual packets, but I'm looking into sealing up my own servings.

Quote
there2hear

Quote
mbear
I'm under the impression that I would need about 4000 calories a day to not lose too much weight (I'm about 170lb),

I'm looking into sealing up my own servings.

I've used the Food Saver vacuum thing for some long trips. It does some good for cheese and tortillas.
I did an experiment where I sealed up a tortilla and set it on top of the fridge to see how long it would take before fuzzy stuff showed up. After a year of nothing growing I threw it out. I did not open it for a smell or taste test.

---

Old Dude

Caveat with the vac sealed stuff, whether food saver or Mountain House pro packs - they do not help you pack a bear canister. Best way to store food is in ziploc bags, leaving the food free flowing enough to meld together inside the can and not waste any space. This makes a huge difference, especially if you take a Garcia instead of the much larger Bearikade cans. I can fit a week of food in the mid size Bearikade and have room left at the top for a half bottle of wine or fishing stuff. However, it sounds like I eat a lot less than you do, so YMMV.

Quote
AlmostThere
Caveat with the vac sealed stuff, whether food saver or Mountain House pro packs - they do not help you pack a bear canister

I agree. Two tortillas in a vac pack can be layered very nicely especially if the vac pacs have been tailored to be roundish. The vac pack for cheese chunks can be made very form fitting also. Dry stuff like cereal, noodles, nuts, etc should be left free flowing.

Vacuum packing is really only useful for stuff that will go moldy or rancid in a few days.

---

Old Dude

Quote
AlmostThere
Caveat with the vac sealed stuff, whether food saver or Mountain House pro packs - they do not help you pack a bear canister. Best way to store food is in ziploc bags, leaving the food free flowing enough to meld together inside the can and not waste any space. This makes a huge difference, especially if you take a Garcia instead of the much larger Bearikade cans. I can fit a week of food in the mid size Bearikade and have room left at the top for a half bottle of wine or fishing stuff. However, it sounds like I eat a lot less than you do, so YMMV.

Nah, I probably don't eat any more than you do; I packed about a pound a half per day on my short trips and was fine. I was just worried about whether it was enough long term, having never been out more than 3 nights. Since the overwhelming consensus seems to be that the 4000 Calorie number was way too much food, I'll definitely scale it back. Sounds like aiming for 2500 is more realistic.

Let's say I want to gain 2000 feet = 600 meters in a day and my body+pack is about 95kilograms. Taking g = 10 meter/second^2, I would need to do m g h = 95kg * 10 meter/sec^2 * 600 meter = 570,000 Joules of work against gravity. Each Joule is about 4200 Calories (food calorie, not heat calorie = 0.001 Calorie), so that's about 140 Calories of work. Since the human body can convert roughly 20% of food calories into mechanical energy, I would need about 700 Calories of food. Add that to the 1800 Calories or so I need to keep a 98.6 degree body temp and that's 2500 Calories. Of course that doesn't take into account work done against friction on the ground or the fact that I'd be hiking up an uneven trail and not a sidewalk, but then again, I don't plan on gaining 2000 feet every day!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/03/2011 12:02PM by mbear.

Quote
mbear
Let's say I want to gain 2000 feet = 600 meters in a day and my body+pack is about 95kilograms. Taking g = 10 meter/second^2, I would need to do m g h = 95kg * 10 meter/sec^2 * 600 meter = 570,000 Joules of work against gravity. Each Joule is about 4200 Calories (food calorie, not heat calorie = 0.001 Calorie), so that's about 140 Calories of work. Since the human body can convert roughly 20% of food calories into mechanical energy, I would need about 700 Calories of food. Add that to the 1800 Calories or so I need to keep a 98.6 degree body temp and that's 2500 Calories. Of course that doesn't take into account work done against friction on the ground or the fact that I'd be hiking up an uneven trail and not a sidewalk, but then again, I don't plan on gaining 2000 feet every day!

You get some back when you come down from the 2000 feet up.

---

Old Dude

Thank you for the benefit of your experience. If it lasts for roughly 3 weeks, that should be enough. It's leaking gooey stuff that worries me most.

What I'd really like is some powdered Double Bastard or Ruination IPA. Would be great to rehydrate with freezing stream water.

Quote
mbear
What I'd really like is some powdered Double Bastard or Ruination IPA. Would be great to rehydrate with freezing stream water.

What good would that be without the alcohol?

I guess you could pack a small bottle of medical-grade alcohol and bring it up to about 6%. That's what some liquor makers use, such as when cheap tequila is cut or with some brands of vodka.

Quote
y_p_w

Quote
mbear
What I'd really like is some powdered Double Bastard or Ruination IPA. Would be great to rehydrate with freezing stream water.

What good would that be without the alcohol?

I guess you could pack a small bottle of medical-grade alcohol and bring it up to about 6%. That's what some liquor makers use, such as when cheap tequila is cut or with some brands of vodka.

Just a joke.... I'd fully expect to get shanked if I ever walked into the Stone Brewery and asked for something like that. Thankfully the TM store has some nice beers (would that be considered breaking the wilderness permit if I stopped and drank a beer at the picnic tables there, assuming my trail passes through the area?)

Quote
y_p_w
.....a small bottle of medical-grade alcohol and bring it up to about 6%. .....

Just to clarify, alcohol for medical applications is not necessarily for oral ingestion and there are a number of alcohol products used medically that are potentially toxic. Best to stick with a product like Everclear for your ethyl alcohol ingestion needs.

---

The cure for a fallacious argument is a better argument, not the suppression of ideas.
-- Carl Sagan

Generally, weight for weight, fats have the highest caloric value compared to protein and carbohydrates (9 Cal/gram vs about 4 Cal/gram). Exercise, metabolism, your weight and ambient temperature will influence how many calories you will need to maintain your weight (if that is important to you). For short durations and without unusual medical problems, you do not need to worry much about essential amino acids, vitamins, or maintaining a certain protein intake. If you are planning to exercise hard after eating, consider that the harder to digest foods (high fiber, fat, protein) will sit like a brick in your stomach.

If you spend a little time in the supermarket, it is surprising how many convenience foods are adaptable to backpacking. I personally like the prepared stuffing formulations (like Stove Top) that can be prepared with just the addition of hot water. Sprinkle on a little powdered gravy for a tasty meal. In addition, there are cubes of butter flavored Crisco that make for adequate butter substitutes and do not seem to require refrigeration. Unfortunately, the best dried milk, Milkman, is no longer produced. Some survivalist suppliers sell pure dried egg formulations that can be used easily to make high calorie concoctions.

---

The cure for a fallacious argument is a better argument, not the suppression of ideas.
-- Carl Sagan



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/27/2011 08:36AM by Frank Furter.

Quote
Frank Furter
Generally, weight for weight, fat have the highest caloric value compared to protein and carbohydrates (9 Cal/gram vs about 4 Cal/gram). Exercise, metabolism, your weight and ambient temperature will influence how many calories you will need to maintain your weight (if that is important to you). For short durations and without unusual medical problems, you do not need to worry much about essential amino acids, vitamins, or maintaining a certain protein intake. If you are planning to exercise hard after eating, consider that the harder to digest foods (high fiber, fat, protein) will sit like a brick in your stomach.

If you spend a little time in the supermarket, it is surprising how many convenience foods are adaptable to backpacking. I personally like the prepared stuffing formulations (like Stove Top) that can be prepared with just the addition of hot water. Sprinkle on a little powdered gravy for a tasty meal. In addition, there are cubes of butter flavored Crisco that make for adequate butter substitutes and do not seem to require refrigeration. Unfortunately, the best dried milk, Milkman, is no longer produced. Some survivalist suppliers sell pure dried egg formulations that can be used easily to make high calorie concoctions.

Stove Top definitely seems like a great idea: it tastes great, looks to be about 120 Cal/oz (dry), and seems to have a good amount of carbs too. I love eating the stuff cold out of the refrigerator, so I don't think I'd mind making it with cold water also.

Also, you can clarify butter (google ghee, that's what it's called) and reduce the possibility of it going rancid in higher temps.

Butter actually doesn't require refrigeration either. It's just really messy as it melts at relatively low temps. I have left (covered) butter on the counter many times... keeps it soft enough to spread, doesn't go bad. Butter and most hard cheese travels well because both are ways that humanity devised to preserve dairy product - prior to refrigerators they were kept in pantries alongside the fresh laid eggs, root vegetables, and apples.

I have taken butter on the trail. You can also get butter powder at Packit Gourmet, as well as powdered sour cream and other goodies that are ready for the trail.

Quote
On my short trips I have packed tons of lightly salted peanuts, some metrx meal replacement bars, baby ruths and snickers, oatmeal with powdered milk, ramen noodles, powdered gatorade, and beef jerky/dried sausage

Honestly, I don't think you can beat what you've been taking on prior trips. The only problem is that in very hot weather, the Baby Ruths and Snickers will probably melt.

I've thru-hiked the JMT several times and packed just about what you listed. Variety is what you'll be craving after 3 or 4 days. Dried fruit is another option for you, Petridge Farm Goldfish, various cookies, Little Debbie Snack Cakes. Another suggestion is salami. It keeps well in your pack and provides needed protein.

Quote
Ulysses61

Quote
On my short trips I have packed tons of lightly salted peanuts, some metrx meal replacement bars, baby ruths and snickers, oatmeal with powdered milk, ramen noodles, powdered gatorade, and beef jerky/dried sausage

Another suggestion is salami. It keeps well in your pack and provides needed protein.

Be sure it is dry tube salami. Sliced salami will go rancid in a day or two while the tube will stay fresh until consumed. You may have to slice off a thin bit if its been a couple of days since the last use.

---

Old Dude

Quote
Ulysses61

Quote
On my short trips I have packed tons of lightly salted peanuts, some metrx meal replacement bars, baby ruths and snickers, oatmeal with powdered milk, ramen noodles, powdered gatorade, and beef jerky/dried sausage

Honestly, I don't think you can beat what you've been taking on prior trips. The only problem is that in very hot weather, the Baby Ruths and Snickers will probably melt.

I've thru-hiked the JMT several times and packed just about what you listed. Variety is what you'll be craving after 3 or 4 days. Dried fruit is another option for you, Petridge Farm Goldfish, various cookies, Little Debbie Snack Cakes. Another suggestion is salami. It keeps well in your pack and provides needed protein.

Ha.... guess that makes it clear I have done most of my trips around fall & winter (summer is just way too hot where I'm at in Texas, even at 5000+ feet). You're right about the chocolate bars: M&Ms would probably make way more sense.

Random thoughts on food for long hikes:

You'll be more hungry during the second week for two reasons: some of the "reserves" will have been depleted and you'll be adjusted to the altitude.
Aim for your food to have an average of at least 100 calories per ounce.
Given the above, 1 1/2 pounds of food will give you 2400 calories per day which is probably about right for your first week. Look at increasing that some, maybe to 2 pounds per day on your second week.

Try for as much variety as you can. There will invariably be something in your food bag that you can't stand the sight of after a few days, make sure there are plenty of other choices left to eat. Here are some things you might add to the list of foods that you have already mentioned:

Explore nuts beyond peanuts: cashews, walnuts, pecans, roasted sunflower seeds, pistachios etc
Cheese. Baby bells are individually packaged in wax and keep well. Finely grated parmesan is nice to add to a variety of dinners.
Dried fruit. Raisins are the obvious one, but mango, apples, pears, cranberries, cherries, or even ginger are other flavorful choices.
In addition to ramen you could add some different carbs: mashed potato, instant rice, couscous.
Hot drinks: coffee, tea, coco
Soup in a cup, there are many varieties: pea, black beans, potato, lentils etc. Throw out the packaging and just bring the contents in a snack ziplock bag.
Crackers. To eat with your cheese and salami. Other spreads: peanut butter, jam, hummus (comes dry, just add water and olive oil)
Cookies, keep well and are tasty with an evening cup of coco.
Foil packets of tuna, chicken or spam can be good to add to your ramen. I use up my salami early in the trip to make sure it is still fresh and use the foil packets for additional protein the last few days.

Quote
KatyAnderson
Random thoughts on food for long hikes:

You'll be more hungry during the second week for two reasons: some of the "reserves" will have been depleted and you'll be adjusted to the altitude.
Aim for your food to have an average of at least 100 calories per ounce.

Haha, I'm almost tempted to go on the all-carnitas diet for a week or two before leaving to have some reserves to be depleted.

Thanks to everyone for your recommendations here; I greatly appreciate the help!

What an awesome trip you have planned! I'm very curious about Table Lake, post some pictures for all of us.

Just a quick suggestion on the food, I take along Sun Warrior Protein Powder - chocolate or vanilla is great tasting. Don't be scared off by the fact that is a vegan protein powder, my husband is the carnivor of carnivors and loves this stuff. I find protein powders are an easy way to get protein in, as well as hydration. Also pretty easy to dump in a ziploc. If you contact Sun Warrior they will send you free samples too.

Best of luck you!

Quote
JRo27
What an awesome trip you have planned! I'm very curious about Table Lake, post some pictures for all of us.

Just a quick suggestion on the food, I take along Sun Warrior Protein Powder - chocolate or vanilla is great tasting. Don't be scared off by the fact that is a vegan protein powder, my husband is the carnivor of carnivors and loves this stuff. I find protein powders are an easy way to get protein in, as well as hydration. Also pretty easy to dump in a ziploc. If you contact Sun Warrior they will send you free samples too.

Best of luck you!

Thanks for the Sun Warrior recommendation; I'll look into it. I can't say I have a specific trip planned yet; I have to do a LOT more research so that I don't bite off more than I chew.

You are going into areas with lots of fish that you don't have to carry. You will need a stove or if in legal fire areas you can cook them on the fire in foil. I can't survive without a snickers bar for breakfast and one for a nightcap everyday but they are heavy but whatever works for you. I avoid the snickers for lunch because they are usually gooey by then.

Also remember you can carry your first days lunch and dinner outside your bear cannister so I always gorge myself the 1st day with cheese, summer sausage, crackers and cookies. I happen to like some of the MH meals because they are so easy to prepare after a long day on the trail. We always bring a big one that serves at least 2 for each person the 1st night. They take up a lot of room in the cannister so we will reuse that first nights package for the remaining freeze dried meals that we repackage in zip locks so we can fit more in the cannister on long trips. Other cheap easy favorites are those idahoan mashed potatoes and the knorrs noodles. I like to add tuna from those foil packets to the knorrs fetecinni. Sounds nasty but on day 5 in the backcountry it's gourmet. If you have fish you can add that to noodles as well and of course fish tacos if you bring tortillas which fit perfectly at the bottom of your cannister. We call them cowboy tacos because we throw whatever we have left in them. I'm too lazy to freeze dry anything, Check out harmony house freeze dried veggies. These work well in tacos, mashed potatoes, soup or whatever and they are very light. You will have fails but you will figure out what you like with time.

Quote
JRo27
What an awesome trip you have planned! I'm very curious about Table Lake, post some pictures for all of us.

You prolly already saw it... but didn't realize it.

http://yosemitenews.info/forum/read.php?3,20415

---

Mr. Chick-On, Any chance you would do a group hike to this mystical place one day? Thanks for the link, now I have a pic to go with the daydream!

Quote
JRo27
Mr. Chick-On, Any chance you would do a group hike to this mystical place one day? Thanks for the link, now I have a pic to go with the daydream!

Is the group a lynch mob? Or does the group want to eat my chick-on wings for din din?

Seriously, I would take someone there... but it would be a 4 day trip...
Realize that from White Wolf it is 16.5 miles one way to Loch Tablae...
with -3600 ft. drop... followed by +3750 climb... and then 900 drop down to the lake...
It's the toughest trail in the park imo.

---

Quote
chick-on

Quote
JRo27
Mr. Chick-On, Any chance you would do a group hike to this mystical place one day? Thanks for the link, now I have a pic to go with the daydream!

Is the group a lynch mob? Or does the group want to eat my chick-on wings for din din?

Seriously, I would take someone there... but it would be a 4 day trip...
Realize that from White Wolf it is 16.5 miles one way to Loch Tablae...
with -3600 ft. drop... followed by +3750 climb... and then 900 drop down to the lake...
It's the toughest trail in the park imo.

Go the easy way from HH

---

Old Dude

Quote
mrcondron
Go the easy way from HH

Where HH = Helpful Helicopter?

The best solution is an ancient one. Llamas.

Quote
Dave

The best solution is an ancient one. Llamas.

Serious question: as a pack animal, what's the avantage of a llama versus a mule or a horse or pony?

Quote
plawrence
Serious question: as a pack animal, what's the avantage of a llama versus a mule or a horse or pony?

1. My llamas poop off trail.
2. Llamas do less damage to the trail, slightly more than a hiker. Horses cause considerable trail damage with each step.
3. Llamas eat less and can be fed pelleted feed that will not introduce exotic, and often invasive, exotic plant species to the area.
4. When foraging llamas browse instead of grazing an area bare.
5. They can pack 1/3rd their weight with about 75lbs being the max.

So, take the weight off of one horse, put it on 3 llamas and they will still eat less, poop less, and cause less environmental damage.

Thanks for the information.

Next question: Are llamas available to rent as a pack animal for Sierra backcountry trips, or does one have to own and use their own llamas?

---

Quote
plawrence
Thanks for the information.

Next question: Are llamas available to rent as a pack animal for Sierra backcountry trips, or does one have to own and use their own llamas?

Some place rent them. Mine are mostly retired.
Try:
Potato Ranch Llama Packers
potatoranch@gmail.com
They're in Sonora.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/28/2011 10:31PM by Dave.

Thanks.

Quote
Dave

Quote
plawrence
Serious question: as a pack animal, what's the avantage of a llama versus a mule or a horse or pony?

1. My llamas poop off trail.
2. Llamas do less damage to the trail, slightly more than a hiker. Horses cause considerable trail damage with each step.
3. Llamas eat less and can be fed pelleted feed that will not introduce exotic, and often invasive, exotic plant species to the area.
4. When foraging llamas browse instead of grazing an area bare.
5. They can pack 1/3rd their weight with about 75lbs being the max.

So, take the weight off of one horse, put it on 3 llamas and they will still eat less, poop less, and cause less environmental damage.

6. Llamas are featured in an Ogden Nash poem.

Quote
eeek
6. Llamas are featured in an Ogden Nash poem.

And in song.
And what is that strange bird that shows up in this video?

Oh, as for a light food I like to bring macaroni and cheese. Just boil the mac, drain, pour into a zip lock bag, add cheese, mix. Eat from the bag. No mess. The bag then becomes a garbage bag to pack stuff out in.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/29/2011 09:18AM by Dave.

Quote
Dave
And what is that strange bird that shows up in this video?

Did I see a bleached chick-on flash by?

Quote
eeek

Quote
Dave
And what is that strange bird that shows up in this video?

Did I see a bleached chick-on flash by?

I did.

Quote
Dave

Quote
plawrence
Serious question: as a pack animal, what's the avantage of a llama versus a mule or a horse or pony?

1. My llamas poop off trail.
2. Llamas do less damage to the trail, slightly more than a hiker. Horses cause considerable trail damage with each step.
3. Llamas eat less and can be fed pelleted feed that will not introduce exotic, and often invasive, exotic plant species to the area.
4. When foraging llamas browse instead of grazing an area bare.
5. They can pack 1/3rd their weight with about 75lbs being the max.

So, take the weight off of one horse, put it on 3 llamas and they will still eat less, poop less, and cause less environmental damage.

And their hooves are soft so they make no noise when traveling over granite. Oh yeah, unlike horses they have a brain.

---

Old Dude

Quote
mrcondron
Go the easy way from HH

You mean the easy 5K+ climb over Rancheria Mtn. and 19 miles...

Actually... was thinking...park one car at HH and start at WW and end at HH.
That's the easiest way.

---

Quote
chick-on

Quote
JRo27
Mr. Chick-On, Any chance you would do a group hike to this mystical place one day? Thanks for the link, now I have a pic to go with the daydream!

Is the group a lynch mob? Or does the group want to eat my chick-on wings for din din?

Seriously, I would take someone there... but it would be a 4 day trip...
Realize that from White Wolf it is 16.5 miles one way to Loch Tablae...
with -3600 ft. drop... followed by +3750 climb... and then 900 drop down to the lake...
It's the toughest trail in the park imo.

I was exhausted coming down that 3,750' after departing Rodgers Lake. We all said going up it would be one helluva climb. Either way, it's a bear of a trail.

More stuffs for you to consider:
http://yosemitenews.info/forum/read.php?1,4978,4982#msg-4982

http://yosemitenews.info/forum/read.php?1,9902,10131#msg-10131

http://yosemitenews.info/forum/read.php?3,19239,19312#msg-19312

and... (read this and get the yoke...) (it goes with the link right up above here):
http://yosemitenews.info/forum/read.php?3,19335,19453#msg-19453

http://yosemitenews.info/forum/read.php?3,26257,26257#msg-26257

A wise Old Dude once told me a story of someone planning a trip and using caloric count
to plan their meals.... they ended up with a boatload o food at the end.
Do not worry about losing weight... just take 1 breffy, 1 lunchy, 1 din din, and some snackies
for each day... and you'll be fine...

Have fun planning! (it's sounding like u trying to bit off more than u can chew though)

I guess I'm skinnier than you... so I gives goods advice. (just ask me)

---

Quote
chick-on
Have fun planning! (it's sounding like u trying to bit off more than u can chew though)

A distinct possibility, but gotta do a first long trip sometime! Thanks for the pasta-roni tip, but I'm having a hard time seeing how a 3 lb bird carries a Bear Vault. Any reason you don't like the power bars? Is it a taste thing, or is it just lousy for energy?

Quote
mbear

Quote
chick-on
Have fun planning! (it's sounding like u trying to bit off more than u can chew though)

A distinct possibility, but gotta do a first long trip sometime! Thanks for the pasta-roni tip, but I'm having a hard time seeing how a 3 lb bird carries a Bear Vault. Any reason you don't like the power bars? Is it a taste thing, or is it just lousy for energy?

I don't carry anything silly! Heck... I GET carried!

Power Bars? Yuck. Cheetos... yum. Twinkies. Supa Yum!

My humble apologies... by biting off more than you can chew... what I meant by that
was you were just sounding like a kid in the candy store... I want this... and this...
and this... and this.. and this... that's all that I meant.
Just plan <10 miles per day with some play days in there somewhere and you'll be fine.
Or do two 7 dayers with a layover day in the middle at someplace like TM so you
can resupply and gorge yourself on burgers!

Have fun

---

Quote
chick-on
Power Bars? Yuck. Cheetos... yum. Twinkies. Supa Yum!

Haha... I like the flavor of some of the Mextrx meal replacement bars (I always take them, backpacking or dayhike), and cannot stand twinkies. I never buy the actual PowerBar brand though; maybe those suck.

Chick-on, remember when you, me and Old Dude went to Loch Tablae starting at H Hetchy-Rancheria-Stinky Foot Creek and over Rancheria Mountain? Although the glory of starting at White Wolf and going that insanely difficult route is worth considering, I would think the group on this hike would become a lynch mob.

Quote
2HalfHitches
Chick-on, remember when you, me and Old Dude went to Loch Tablae starting at H Hetchy-Rancheria-Stinky Foot Creek and over Rancheria Mountain? Although the glory of starting at White Wolf and going that insanely difficult route is worth considering, I would think the group on this hike would become a lynch mob.

Either way... The mob would probably be gorging themselves on Chick-on fingers and Twinkies.

---

Quick question (I didn't want to start a new thread): Is early August too soon to summit Conness from the Young Lakes without having to cross ice? Let's take a bad case and say it's a heavy snow year like this past one was. Would I be stupid to do this trip before Labor Day if getting up Conness is a priority?

Quote
mbear
Quick question (I didn't want to start a new thread): Is early August too soon to summit Conness from the Young Lakes without having to cross ice? Let's take a bad case and say it's a heavy snow year like this past one was. Would I be stupid to do this trip before Labor Day if getting up Conness is a priority?

The quick answer is no. Most of the route is south facing.

---

Quote
chick-on

Quote
mbear
Quick question (I didn't want to start a new thread): Is early August too soon to summit Conness from the Young Lakes without having to cross ice? Let's take a bad case and say it's a heavy snow year like this past one was. Would I be stupid to do this trip before Labor Day if getting up Conness is a priority?

The quick answer is no. Most of the route is south facing.

That's what I was hoping since it's south facing. Thanks!

I believe the original topic was food.
I did eleven days in Sequoia-Kings this summer using the Garcia Cannister,large size, no resupply. The secret was repacking everything in zip lock bags. Oatmeal or cream of wheat for breakfast, not the instant size,packing in single serving sandwich bags. Bars and nuts to snack on during the day. Freeze dried meals strectched with instant rice or coucous, repacked in small ziplocks. I had protein shacks made from whey protein powder and instant milk to help keep me from getting run down. A small bottle of olive olive-in a 4 oz plastic/nagene bottle really helps those dinners. And don't forget the salt, this is not the time to go on a low salt diet. Energan-C is helpful, you won't have those type vitamins in dry food
I agree on Chick-on's mileage recommendations. Relax and enjoy the show. No one goes backpacking for the food. Then again, bad food can affect your mindset and ruin an otherwise good trip.

Please be advised that any stopover at the esteemed Curry Village Pizza deck will sadly be considered a break in your permit.

SaveCurryVillagePizza

Quote
chicagocwright
Please be advised that any stopover at the esteemed Curry Village Pizza deck will sadly be considered a break in your permit.

That's not all it will break.

Quote
chicagocwright
Please be advised that any stopover at the esteemed Curry Village Pizza deck will sadly be considered a break in your permit.

SaveCurryVillagePizza

I wonder if the same for TM Grill, although there are tons of trails that converge on that area and I know JMT hikers use the TM post office for re-supply without breaking the permit.

Just browsing nutritional labels, Rice Crispies/Cocoa Crispies seem to be very high in carbs per ounce (higher than the pastas I'm looking at). Thumbs up or down for throwing in the bear can?

Quote
mbear
Just browsing nutritional labels, Rice Crispies/Cocoa Crispies seem to be very high in carbs per ounce (higher than the pastas I'm looking at). Thumbs up or down for throwing in the bear can?

They take a lot of space per ounce.

Quote
eeek

Quote
mbear
Just browsing nutritional labels, Rice Crispies/Cocoa Crispies seem to be very high in carbs per ounce (higher than the pastas I'm looking at). Thumbs up or down for throwing in the bear can?

They take a lot of space per ounce.

Makes sense; forgot there was tons of air inside each crispie.

Quote
mbear
Makes sense; forgot there was tons of air inside each crispie.

Parboiled rice would be a better choice.