Let the debates begin:
http://www.nps.gov/yose/parknews/hdea2012.htm
Half Dome Trail Stewardship Plan Draft Environmental Assessment Available for Public Review January 24, 2012 02:53PM | Registered: 15 years ago Posts: 51 |
Re: Half Dome Trail Stewardship Plan Draft Environmental Assessment Available for Public Review January 24, 2012 04:00PM | Admin Registered: 15 years ago Posts: 17,107 |
Re: Half Dome Trail Stewardship Plan Draft Environmental Assessment Available for Public Review January 25, 2012 12:20AM | Registered: 15 years ago Posts: 60 |
Re: Half Dome Trail Stewardship Plan Draft Environmental Assessment Available for Public Review January 25, 2012 12:41AM | Registered: 15 years ago Posts: 670 |
Re: Half Dome Trail Stewardship Plan Draft Environmental Assessment Available for Public Review January 25, 2012 01:26AM | Registered: 13 years ago Posts: 343 |
Re: Half Dome Trail Stewardship Plan Draft Environmental Assessment Available for Public Review January 25, 2012 07:34AM | Registered: 15 years ago Posts: 7,421 |
Re: Half Dome Trail Stewardship Plan Draft Environmental Assessment Available for Public Review January 25, 2012 09:29AM | Registered: 13 years ago Posts: 690 |
Re: Half Dome Trail Stewardship Plan Draft Environmental Assessment Available for Public Review January 25, 2012 10:10AM | Registered: 15 years ago Posts: 7,421 |
Re: Half Dome Trail Stewardship Plan Draft Environmental Assessment Available for Public Review January 26, 2012 05:34PM | Moderator Registered: 15 years ago Posts: 1,347 |
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chick-on
Honestly I don't know why they don't just position a ranger where they do now...
and keep track of the number of people above the subdome. Let N number people at
a time... when limit met... no mas until someone comes back down.
Fairly simple in theory... however, it'll still piss people off that wait an hour or more
to get up... or aren't allowed due to imminent darkfall...
They could still charge people... if you come back w/o the ranger punching it... you get
your money back.
Re: Half Dome Trail Stewardship Plan Draft Environmental Assessment Available for Public Review January 27, 2012 07:45AM | Registered: 15 years ago Posts: 7,421 |
Did ewe really need to ask this? California does not have LNGB.Quote
Bee
1. If The Goat was too far back in line, would you hitch a ride with someone else up the dome and leave the Goat behind?
He said she looks like a Zinger. What a guy to do?Quote
Bee
2. Have you dealt with Larry about making moves on Chick-a?
Re: Half Dome Trail Stewardship Plan Draft Environmental Assessment Available for Public Review January 27, 2012 03:44PM | Admin Registered: 15 years ago Posts: 17,107 |
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chick-on
Did ewe really need to ask this? California does not have LNGB.Quote
Bee
1. If The Goat was too far back in line, would you hitch a ride with someone else up the dome and leave the Goat behind?He said she looks like a Zinger. What a guy to do?Quote
Bee
2. Have you dealt with Larry about making moves on Chick-a?
Then claims nothing is going on. I got a PI working on the case to get me proofs.
Re: Half Dome Trail Stewardship Plan Draft Environmental Assessment Available for Public Review January 27, 2012 11:03PM | Registered: 12 years ago Posts: 3 |
Quote
chick-on
Honestly I don't know why they don't just position a ranger where they do now...
and keep track of the number of people above the subdome. Let N number people at
a time... when limit met... no mas until someone comes back down.
Fairly simple in theory... however, it'll still piss people off that wait an hour or more
to get up... or aren't allowed due to imminent darkfall...
They could still charge people... if you come back w/o the ranger punching it... you get
your money back.
Re: Half Dome Trail Stewardship Plan Draft Environmental Assessment Available for Public Review January 28, 2012 07:02PM | Moderator Registered: 15 years ago Posts: 1,347 |
Re: Half Dome Trail Stewardship Plan Draft Environmental Assessment Available for Public Review January 29, 2012 11:41PM | Registered: 15 years ago Posts: 60 |
Re: Half Dome Trail Stewardship Plan Draft Environmental Assessment Available for Public Review January 30, 2012 07:30AM | Registered: 15 years ago Posts: 7,421 |
Re: Half Dome Trail Stewardship Plan Draft Environmental Assessment Available for Public Review January 30, 2012 11:02AM | Registered: 15 years ago Posts: 4,173 |
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SteveC
What the xxxx! Why are they picking on Half Dome hikers to worry about "solitude opportunities"? Good grief, why don't they worry about it at Nevada Falls, or someplace else.
I'd REALLY like to know why they seem to think people hike that trail with any desire for solitude. They're joking, right?
Saaaay, I'd like to go to Glacier Point and have it all to myself. Can I get into a permit lottery for that?
Re: Half Dome Trail Stewardship Plan Draft Environmental Assessment Available for Public Review January 30, 2012 07:27AM | Registered: 15 years ago Posts: 7,421 |
Re: Half Dome Trail Stewardship Plan Draft Environmental Assessment Available for Public Review January 25, 2012 10:31AM | Registered: 15 years ago Posts: 4,173 |
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chick-on
Maybe they could just install a "tow rope" and people just get dragged up the slope.
Re: Half Dome Trail Stewardship Plan Draft Environmental Assessment Available for Public Review January 27, 2012 11:15PM | Registered: 12 years ago Posts: 3 |
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qumqats
In the spectrum of what the different alternatives offer the preference isn't too bad. However the alternatives are biased towards restricted access, most disappointing
My preference would be to increase the permits to at least 400 a day and add another cable.
If safety is a concern it seems to me it's a no-brainer that another cable is needed.
I agree that "wilderness experience" should have nothing to do with this. No matter what they do, the trail up to Half Dome is NOT wilderness. This also includes the cables, so there shouldn't be any problem with adding the second cable.
This is a case where I think they should side with "public access", not "preserve for future generations".
Re: Half Dome Trail Stewardship Plan Draft Environmental Assessment Available for Public Review January 28, 2012 12:06AM | Registered: 15 years ago Posts: 670 |
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Dustin
NPS doesn't have the legal authority to side with "public access" over "preserve for future generations". They are bound by the Wilderness Act to protect the wilderness character of the trail. The only way around that would be to have the Half Dome trail removed from the wilderness boundaries by Congress, which would never happen. This was all addressed in the proposal. A third cable wouldn't do anything to reduce crowding and safety issues on the trail, subdome, and the summit.
"A third cable that would potentially accommodate existing use levels does not meet the
goal of reducing crowding and encounter rates on the Half Dome trail in order to protect
wilderness character and increase safety"
"The scope of this plan is to identify
alternative options for better managing the Half Dome Trail as part of Yosemite’s designated
wilderness, in keeping with the park’s Wilderness Management Plan. Finally, removal of Half
Dome from wilderness would require Congressional action. The NPS has no authority to remove
designated wilderness from the wilderness preservation system."
Re: Half Dome Trail Stewardship Plan Draft Environmental Assessment Available for Public Review January 25, 2012 01:11AM | Moderator Registered: 15 years ago Posts: 1,347 |
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SteveC
There are other ways to decrease the congestion on the cables. If they would just think a tiny bit "outside the box", they might even come up with something like this: Make some permits available where people have to start up the cables, say, between 8 and 10 AM or turn back, some between 10 and 12, others at 12-2, 2-4, and so on throughout each day, there would be lots of people who would happily accept the challenge. There ARE alternatives!
I sure hope more than a few will comment and tell Yosemite how foul their proposal is.
Re: Half Dome Trail Stewardship Plan Draft Environmental Assessment Available for Public Review January 24, 2012 10:08PM | Registered: 15 years ago Posts: 670 |
Re: Half Dome Trail Stewardship Plan Draft Environmental Assessment Available for Public Review January 25, 2012 04:10AM | Moderator Registered: 15 years ago Posts: 1,942 |
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qumqats
In what way does "Alternative A, the No Action Alternative, would retain the cable system and continue managing the Half Dome Trail as it was through 2009, with no permits required." violate NPS policy?
I disappointed that ALL alternatives are so restrictive of access. At least the "Preferred Alternative" offers a fair amount of access.
I urge everyone to comment on this.
Re: Half Dome Trail Stewardship Plan Draft Environmental Assessment Available for Public Review January 25, 2012 10:24AM | Registered: 15 years ago Posts: 4,173 |
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Frank Furter
In reading this proposal, I was stuck by the methodology of the proposal intended to persuade public acceptance of a predetermination decision.
Firstly, Alternative A is eliminated out of hand and without adequate explanation and, by admission in the document, merely presented as an unacceptable baseline condition. NPS "policy" is invoked without reference.
At the other extreme Alternative D and E are so highly restrictive as to be unreasonable (why not just limit the daily access to 10 people?) . Therefore, the document becomes a polemic intended to persuade rather than an invitation to problem solving or public input. It seems to me to be disingenuous for that reason. NPS should not pretend to solicit public comment when the course of action has effectively been decided. This process resembles a Hobson's Choice where any option is possible so long as you pick the NPS preferred option. Why are we wasting time, money and effort if the decision has already been made? It seems like a wasteful effort.
Re: Half Dome Trail Stewardship Plan Draft Environmental Assessment Available for Public Review January 26, 2012 10:10AM | Registered: 12 years ago Posts: 4 |
Re: Half Dome Trail Stewardship Plan Draft Environmental Assessment Available for Public Review January 26, 2012 02:42PM | Registered: 15 years ago Posts: 60 |
Re: Half Dome Trail Stewardship Plan Draft Environmental Assessment Available for Public Review January 26, 2012 05:25PM | Registered: 15 years ago Posts: 7,421 |
Re: Half Dome Trail Stewardship Plan Draft Environmental Assessment Available for Public Review January 26, 2012 05:47PM | Registered: 15 years ago Posts: 4,173 |
Re: Half Dome Trail Stewardship Plan Draft Environmental Assessment Available for Public Review January 26, 2012 06:12PM | Registered: 13 years ago Posts: 1,351 |
Re: Half Dome Trail Stewardship Plan Draft Environmental Assessment Available for Public Review January 26, 2012 07:56PM | Registered: 12 years ago Posts: 4 |
Re: Half Dome Trail Stewardship Plan Draft Environmental Assessment Available for Public Review January 26, 2012 08:11PM | Registered: 15 years ago Posts: 4,173 |
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lembert
According to the Wilderness Act, when a designated wilderness area has a primitive and unconfined type of recreation, not having solitude does not change it from wilderness to non-wilderness. A quota system limits opportunities for a primitive and unconfined type of recreation.
Re: Half Dome Trail Stewardship Plan Draft Environmental Assessment Available for Public Review January 27, 2012 09:58AM | Registered: 12 years ago Posts: 3 |
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plawrence
When it comes to climbing to the top of Half Dome, absolutely not. Everyone is still allowed to summit Half Dome via other routes, and rock climbers do that all the time during the summer (and spring and fall).
The quota only restricts people who want to use the cables to get to the top of Half Dome. It does not limit other means (via other routes) for getting to the top of Half Dome. If you want to summit Half Dome via Snake Dike, no permit is required.
Re: Half Dome Trail Stewardship Plan Draft Environmental Assessment Available for Public Review January 27, 2012 12:34PM | Registered: 12 years ago Posts: 4 |
Re: Half Dome Trail Stewardship Plan Draft Environmental Assessment Available for Public Review February 01, 2012 01:24PM | Registered: 13 years ago Posts: 15 |
Re: Half Dome Trail Stewardship Plan Draft Environmental Assessment Available for Public Review January 26, 2012 08:38PM | Registered: 15 years ago Posts: 7,421 |
Re: Half Dome Trail Stewardship Plan Draft Environmental Assessment Available for Public Review January 26, 2012 09:02PM | Registered: 13 years ago Posts: 1,351 |
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Yosemite National Park
Unconfined Recreation. Wilderness users would be required to obtain and carry a permit. Users would also be required to carry personal identification and may be checked by a law enforcement ranger along the Trail. All of this would represent a loss of spontaneity and would affect the unconfined quality of wilderness character. Impacts would be localized, moderate, long-term, and adverse.
Re: Half Dome Trail Stewardship Plan Draft Environmental Assessment Available for Public Review January 26, 2012 09:36PM | Registered: 15 years ago Posts: 7,421 |
Re: Half Dome Trail Stewardship Plan Draft Environmental Assessment Available for Public Review January 27, 2012 12:46PM | Registered: 12 years ago Posts: 4 |
Re: Half Dome Trail Stewardship Plan Draft Environmental Assessment Available for Public Review January 26, 2012 08:37PM | Registered: 15 years ago Posts: 670 |
Re: Half Dome Trail Stewardship Plan Draft Environmental Assessment Available for Public Review January 25, 2012 10:48AM | Registered: 13 years ago Posts: 159 |
Re: Half Dome Trail Stewardship Plan Draft Environmental Assessment Available for Public Review January 26, 2012 10:06PM | Registered: 15 years ago Posts: 60 |
Re: Half Dome Trail Stewardship Plan Draft Environmental Assessment Available for Public Review January 26, 2012 10:12PM | Registered: 15 years ago Posts: 7,421 |
Re: Half Dome Trail Stewardship Plan Draft Environmental Assessment Available for Public Review January 27, 2012 12:15AM | Admin Registered: 15 years ago Posts: 17,107 |
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SteveC
Just for fun, let's try to weight the positives and negatives here...
Paying for a permit - - - - - - - - - - - - - -- - - - - -5
Carrying a permit - - - - - - - - - -- - - - - - - - - - -1
Carrying Identification - - - - - - - - - - - -- - - - - -1
Being asked to show permit & identification - - -2
Fewer people on the trail - - - - - - - - - - - - - - +1
Fewer people on the cables - - - - - - - - - - - - +5
Increased safety -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - +5
"Enhanced" wilderness experience - - - - - - - +1
No permit available due to full quota - - - - - - -100
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - ----------------
Net per person - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -97
Multiplied by 100 additional per day reduction in permit availability times 120 permit days
- - - - - - - - - - - - - Net affect:- - - - - - -1,164,000
Re: Half Dome Trail Stewardship Plan Draft Environmental Assessment Available for Public Review January 27, 2012 01:35AM | Registered: 13 years ago Posts: 343 |
Re: Half Dome Trail Stewardship Plan Draft Environmental Assessment Available for Public Review January 27, 2012 09:01AM | Registered: 14 years ago Posts: 694 |
Re: Half Dome Trail Stewardship Plan Draft Environmental Assessment Available for Public Review January 30, 2012 08:41AM | Registered: 13 years ago Posts: 193 |
Re: Half Dome Trail Stewardship Plan Draft Environmental Assessment Available for Public Review January 31, 2012 05:15PM | Registered: 13 years ago Posts: 343 |
Re: Half Dome Trail Stewardship Plan Draft Environmental Assessment Available for Public Review January 31, 2012 08:04PM | Registered: 13 years ago Posts: 690 |
Re: Half Dome Trail Stewardship Plan Draft Environmental Assessment Available for Public Review February 01, 2012 12:20AM | Registered: 15 years ago Posts: 4,173 |
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chicagocwright
And on my way down the cables at about 4:00 pm---I was the ONLY person on the cables the entire descent. And there were only a few left on the summit.
Plan to limit Yosemite’s Half Dome access splits wilderness advocates and hikers who love it January 31, 2012 12:55PM | Admin Registered: 15 years ago Posts: 17,107 |
Re: Half Dome Trail Stewardship Plan Draft Environmental Assessment Available for Public Review February 01, 2012 08:37AM | Registered: 14 years ago Posts: 694 |
Re: Half Dome Trail Stewardship Plan Draft Environmental Assessment Available for Public Review February 01, 2012 11:47AM | Registered: 13 years ago Posts: 690 |
Re: Half Dome Trail Stewardship Plan Draft Environmental Assessment Available for Public Review February 01, 2012 12:42PM | Registered: 15 years ago Posts: 4,173 |
Re: Half Dome Trail Stewardship Plan Draft Environmental Assessment Available for Public Review February 01, 2012 01:25PM | Registered: 13 years ago Posts: 15 |
Re: Half Dome Trail Stewardship Plan Draft Environmental Assessment Available for Public Review February 01, 2012 03:03PM | Registered: 15 years ago Posts: 74 |
Re: Half Dome Trail Stewardship Plan Draft Environmental Assessment Available for Public Review February 05, 2012 01:00AM | Registered: 15 years ago Posts: 60 |
Re: Half Dome Trail Stewardship Plan Draft Environmental Assessment Available for Public Review February 05, 2012 11:51AM | Registered: 13 years ago Posts: 15 |
Re: Half Dome Trail Stewardship Plan Draft Environmental Assessment Available for Public Review February 05, 2012 12:32PM | Registered: 15 years ago Posts: 51 |
Re: Half Dome Trail Stewardship Plan Draft Environmental Assessment Available for Public Review February 05, 2012 12:51PM | Registered: 15 years ago Posts: 4,173 |
Re: Half Dome Trail Stewardship Plan Draft Environmental Assessment Available for Public Review February 05, 2012 01:02PM | Registered: 15 years ago Posts: 51 |
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plawrence
Back in the 1990's the Park Service dealt with this problem for one or two summers by simply limiting the amount of vehicles that could enter the park at any one given time.
But they did have a de facto "permit" system in place in such as anyone who had an overnight reservation at one of lodging properties (Curry Village, the Ahwahnee, Yosemite Lodge, the Wawona) or had a campground reservation or wilderness permit were still permitted to drive in regardless if the "vehicle quota" had been reached. All other vehicles would be turned away at the entrance gates.
It proved to be highly unpopular, not just by would-be park visitors that were turned away, but also with the local motel owners of the surrounding communities who ended up with pissed-off guest who couldn't enter the park they had travelled so far (in many cases) to visit.
This quota policy was soon abandoned.
Re: Half Dome Trail Stewardship Plan Draft Environmental Assessment Available for Public Review March 15, 2012 01:45AM | Registered: 15 years ago Posts: 60 |