Re: What water purifier to buy?

I'm getting ready for my trip and the only thing I don have is a water purifier. What do you use? I'll use it a few time a year, so I don't want to spend 100 buck on one, but I also don't what to get sick.

Thanks,

Paul

If you want a purifier, chemicals or the First Need work okay. A filter will do and I use a Hiker Pro - it's not so expensive and I've worn the fittings off one of them so far without having issues with clogging.

There is a learning curve - read up on the instructions for various filters and purifiers before deciding. Knowing what to do with it if something goes wrong is important.

And if it breaks or clogs - just drink the water, don't get dehydrated. It's far more dangerous to be wandering about dehydrated out of your head making bad decisions than it is to get sick nine days later when you are safely at home. Giardia and other microscopic critters aren't fun to deal with, but they aren't fatal, as is getting totally lost and dehydrated.

Speaking as someone who has been there, done that, and also helped out a bunch of folks who aren't as forward thinking as to bring a filter at all.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/08/2012 05:40PM by AlmostThere.

This pretty much the only one I use now:
http://www.rei.com/product/799003/steripen-adventurer-opti-water-purifier

I used to use this:
http://www.rei.com/product/830746/katadyn-hiker-water-filter

and I bought this and it somehow gets all rave reviews but I think it's a POS:
http://www.rei.com/product/801824/sawyer-3-way-inline-water-filter

I've also had and used for many years the MSR waterworks/miniworks type of
filters.

I'm 110% sold on the Steripen. Love it.

Whatever you do don't buy the PRO of Katadyn. You don't need that extra gunk.

Steripen I love b/c it's one less piece of gear I have to fart with when I get
back home. Just make sure you buy the Opti. Over the long haul I also figure
I save 100s of dollars with the Steripen.

My 2 dollars worth.

If you only gone once in a blue moon maybe just buy some chemical stuff.
Something like:
http://www.rei.com/product/695229/katadyn-micropur-purification-tablets-package-of-30

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Recently bought the Sawyer 3-way inline filter. Have yet to use it though. What makes it a POS, chick-on? The reviews are what convinced me it was a good idea. I found the pen to be a pain.

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KC
Recently bought the Sawyer 3-way inline filter. Have yet to use it though. What makes it a POS, chick-on? The reviews are what convinced me it was a good idea. I found the pen to be a pain.

Bummer. Sorry if I gave you info you don't like. The pen maybe takes getting used to but it works great for me.
I setup the Sawyer inline and when I try to get some water out of it... it just doesn't work worth a darn.

Maybe I have a defective unit or something. ???

For the pen I use this:
http://www.rei.com/product/670588/nalgene-wide-mouth-cantene-32-fl-oz

Fill that up... filter... transfer to hydration bladder or 2 litre platy... done.

For batteries... you can get 40 for about 40 bucks... those batts will last you years... (I think I used maybe a dozen so far)
These:
http://www.amazon.com/Tenergy-40-pack-Lithium-Battery-Protected/dp/B001W9Y4PK/ref=sr_1_4?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1336509570&sr=1-4

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No bummer here, just have to re-think my investment. My Katadyn's been so reliable all these years I'm just having trouble giving it up.

in an effort to save weight, i use an old 1L platy with the top cut off as a "scoop" to gather water and then stir with the pen before pouring into my "goodwater" platys. you know, those 1L rigid nalgene bottles weigh over 6 oz!!!!! while a 2L "soft" platy or evernew weighs under 2oz ---- that's twice the capacity and a 1/4 pound savings!!! i'm just sayin'....

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mtc
in an effort to save weight, i use an old 1L platy with the top cut off as a "scoop" to gather water and then stir with the pen before pouring into my "goodwater" platys. you know, those 1L rigid nalgene bottles weigh over 6 oz!!!!! while a 2L "soft" platy or evernew weighs under 2oz ---- that's twice the capacity and a 1/4 pound savings!!! i'm just sayin'....

The one I put a link to... putting it on a scale... survey says 2.15 oz.
(but it's a good idea you have there) Sometimes I use it to get an extra litre... so
kinda want the lid and all.

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chick-on

and I bought this and it somehow gets all rave reviews but I think it's a POS:
http://www.rei.com/product/801824/sawyer-3-way-inline-water-filter

I've also had and used for many years the MSR waterworks/miniworks type of
filters.

I'm 110% sold on the Steripen. Love it.

Whatever you do don't buy the PRO of Katadyn. You don't need that extra gunk.

I think you might have bought the wrong Sawyer filter.

I have this one:

REI.com: Sawyer Squeeze Water Filter



And it's great for day hikes and for overnight camping where it doesn't get BELOW freezing. And that's its biggest limitation, that its membrane filter can get damage if the temperature gets below freezing. So in the Sierra it's probably just a one season filter for many overnight camping scenarios. But again, for day hikes in the spring, summer, and fall, it's great. Lightweight and effective.


But for overnight camping or backpacking trips in the Sierra (when it can often get below freezing), I prefer using a SteriPEN too, but I use the SteriPen Emergency model (basically the Classic model but in red) because the SterPEN Adventure model form factor won't fit inside my Nalgene narrow-mouth water bottles.

Amazon.com: SteriPEN Emergency and the REI.com: SteriPEN Classic Water Purifier with Prefilter





And when I think I'm going to be dealing with more muddy turbid water, then I'll take along my Katadyn Vario filter that Half Dome Hiker had already mentioned.



.

we used the steripen opti last year on our north rim/hd trip. absolutely loved it's size, weight and simplicity. prolly wouldn't use it around the siltier/muckier watersheds here in the midwest, but in the sierras, it was perfect. 2 people for 3-4 days did require two sets of batteries however -- ymmv.

I'm using the Katadyn Vario for many, many years and have been very happy with it:

Katadyn Vario


Has anyone tried the new CamelBak Purifier?!

CamelBak UV Purifier

I've seen it advertised for a while and took a look during one of my latest REI visits. However I didn't want to spend US$99 just to try it out. Looks neat but needs power which concerns me a bit.

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Ataim
I'm getting ready for my trip and the only thing I don have is a water purifier. What do you use? I'll use it a few time a year, so I don't want to spend 100 buck on one, but I also don't what to get sick.

For those few times a year, where would you use the filter/purifier? The Sierra and/or other mountains with good surface waters, or other places as well?

In general I use the Steripen Opti (yes, over $100) and love it - it has no impact on the taste of mountain waters, which is a very good thing.

Areas where I would suggest a filter instead of the Steripen:

• Glacial waters with lots of silt, where a field-cleanable filter is needed
• Places where the water just doesn't taste good like the ponds at Coe State Park
• Places with weird stuff in the water that doesn't die easily, like Isle Royale's tapeworm cysts

Steripen Opti or SteriPEN AdventurerOpti with Solar Charging Case UV Water Purifier



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/08/2012 12:52PM by eeek.

I use the sawyer inline filter, but I use it as a gravity filter, not inline with a hydration pack. I can filter a liter of water in 1 minute, faster than a pump. I've never had good luck with the steripen, but it wasn't an opti. I also want to filter out "floaties" so...

I filtered 20 gallons of silty water without the sawyer even slowing. It works well for me.

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Hitech
I use the sawyer inline filter, but I use it as a gravity filter, not inline with a hydration pack. I can filter a liter of water in 1 minute, faster than a pump. I've never had good luck with the steripen, but it wasn't an opti. I also want to filter out "floaties" so...

I filtered 20 gallons of silty water without the sawyer even slowing. It works well for me.

Please take a video of it in action and post it for me. Maybe the one I have is defective.
I will show a picture of what setup I have with it and also take a video of it's awesome power of gravity filtration.

(neither works worth a poo for me)

OPTI. OPTI. OPTI. The one w/o optical sucks. Returned that baby to REI. (thanks ttilley)

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I will give it a try. We are leaving Wed afternoon for a camping trip with the family but I will try, especially since this is the first chance I have to give back. My first backpacking trip into Yosemite wouldn't have happened without some solid advice from here.

Besides, the camera on my phone should be good enough for this, and I don't need to edit it...

I'd like to see too. Right on.

As would I! I'm hoping to replace/supplement my old MSR Miniworks with the Steripen Adventurer Opti to save on weight, but I've seen a lot of people also suggesting the Sawyer.

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edg
As would I! I'm hoping to replace/supplement my old MSR Miniworks with the Steripen Adventurer Opti to save on weight, but I've seen a lot of people also suggesting the Sawyer.

I didn't buy the SteriPen until the Opti came out because I'd seen complaints that it wasn't working with water that had few suspended particulates, such as fresh snowmelt in the Sierra. For the Opti they reworked the sensor, I bought it, and have been a very happy customer.

Never tried the Sawyer so I can't compare. The MSR is a nice filter and is easily field-cleanable.

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ttilley

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edg
As would I! I'm hoping to replace/supplement my old MSR Miniworks with the Steripen Adventurer Opti to save on weight, but I've seen a lot of people also suggesting the Sawyer.

I didn't buy the SteriPen until the Opti came out because I'd seen complaints that it wasn't working with water that had few suspended particulates, such as fresh snowmelt in the Sierra. For the Opti they reworked the sensor, I bought it, and have been a very happy customer.

Never tried the Sawyer so I can't compare. The MSR is a nice filter and is easily field-cleanable.

I've been very happy with the MSR Miniworks. Filters at an adequate rate, water tastes great, and I'm able to clean it in the field. But for many of the water sources I've run across in the Sierra, it just seems like overkill, given it's bulkiness and weight.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/08/2012 06:38PM by edg.

Here is mine. It took longer than I said, about 1 min 45 sec.





Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/09/2012 11:17AM by Hitech.

I am ALMOST positive that I can carry Giardia and not have any symptoms. When I was a kid I drank water with it in it all the time until my grandfather had it tested. No symptoms.

I also drink from a stream in the Sierras that I believe to be Giardia free. I filter anyway. You never know what someone else did upstream just before you arrived.

Thanks for that. Returned mine to REI at lunch. They didn't have replacement so I guess I will
either just keep doing what I'm doing or purchase online to give it another go.
A few points:
- I felt my head tilting thru the video
- What kind of magic water is going thru it?
- Please do not shoot me
- Nice hardwood / Pergo
- So what exactly did you do to piss off your Utah neighbors?

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Sorry it was titled. First time using the video on the phone. It wasn't tilted on the phone. I was scrambling and am lucky to get it done. And utah?!?

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Hitech
Sorry it was titled. First time using the video on the phone. It wasn't tilted on the phone. I was scrambling and am lucky to get it done. And utah?!?

Youtube has the option to rotate the video file.

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Hitech
Sorry it was titled. First time using the video on the phone. It wasn't tilted on the phone. I was scrambling and am lucky to get it done. And utah?!?

The one's with the cool windows. (I presume the hardwood floor and don't shoot me comments made no sense either)
(if you still don't get it... take a look at your photos... I did)


EDIT: you went and changed it to youtube so now I can't see your photos.
(a buddy told me about that person with the windows... I was laughing my chick-on butt
off when I saw it) You prob. know the story but the gist of it from what I heard
went something like they had to spend boatloads of money on a ridiculous
technicality in the building laws pointed out by the neighbors... so the neighbor
got the big bird window.
(if you read this far and want to see what I'm talking about just do a google search
for "utah house finger" )

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Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 05/09/2012 10:52PM by chick-on.

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chick-on
A few points:
- Please do not shoot me

BTW, those where pictures of a paintball "marker". However, unless you have on a proper mask with goggles I won't shoot you...

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Hitech
Here is mine. It took longer than I said, about 1 min 45 sec.

Thanks for the video!

Just a heads-up. I see it's now on YouTube. On this forum, if you click on the video icon () above the text input box, you can paste your YouTube video URL in the popup dialog box and it will show inside your message like this:

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plawrence

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Hitech
Here is mine. It took longer than I said, about 1 min 45 sec.

Thanks for the video!

Just a heads-up. I see it's now on YouTube. On this forum, if you click on the video icon () above the text input box, you can paste your YouTube video URL in the popup dialog box and it will show inside your message like this:

Is that electric? What is making the water flow?

I didn't realize you could see the other photobucket pictures. Bit I guess since they are public...

That floor is much better than the carpet it replaced. Carpet when camping is just nuts.

I thought the window was the perfect responce!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/14/2012 08:28PM by Hitech.

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Hitech
I will give it a try. We are leaving Wed afternoon for a camping trip with the family but I will try, especially since this is the first chance I have to give back. My first backpacking trip into Yosemite wouldn't have happened without some solid advice from here.

Besides, the camera on my phone should be good enough for this, and I don't need to edit it...

OK, I uploaded of video of my pathetic Sawyer ... and here it is...



and then just looking on youtooby... it's obvious something is just not right and I need
to take the tupid thing back to REI and get a different one:
(move straight to the 4 minute mark to see the difference)

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Yeah, the flow out of your Sawyer water filter is way too slow. I presume you had already tried backflushing it just to see if had gotten clogged somehow. And as I already had mentioned these Sawyer membrane filters can be damaged if the temperature goes below freezing.

For whatever reason, your filter definitely is defective.

.

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plawrence
Yeah, the flow out of your Sawyer water filter is way too slow. I presume you had already tried backflushing it just to see if had gotten clogged somehow. And as I already had mentioned these Sawyer membrane filters can be damaged if the temperature goes below freezing.

For whatever reason, your filter definitely is defective.

.

Yeah. I tried. No change... threw it back in the box... said "o well"...
It's going back to REI today

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Here's a short video of the Sawyer Squeeze Filter that I like to use, especially on day hikes.

It comes with three different sized mylar water bags, but what I really like about it is that I can just attached a regular 20 oz (or even larger) already used water bottle like this Aquafina one and drink directly from it!

As you can see the flow rate is pretty fast. The mylar bags come now in 1/2 liter, 1-liter and 2-liter sizes.




.

An update... I ended up getting a new one from REI and
took it on 2 4-day b2b trips to Yosemite and Whitney area.
Works great. Sawyer Inline Filter. I'll be using this for The Sierra
when not snow camping and/or I know I can assure the
filter won't freeze on me.

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Glad we could help. Even better knowing you got it all fixed up now.

I have this one. Works well, but I cannot speak to its longevity, because although I have had it 7 or 8 years, I haven't used it that much and I have the older, white version. http://www.rei.com/product/617913/msr-sweetwater-water-filter

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hotrod4x5
I have this one. Works well, but I cannot speak to its longevity, because although I have had it 7 or 8 years, I haven't used it that much and I have the older, white version. http://www.rei.com/product/617913/msr-sweetwater-water-filter

this gets my vote, had mine for years as well

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ryanmj

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hotrod4x5
I have this one. Works well, but I cannot speak to its longevity, because although I have had it 7 or 8 years, I haven't used it that much and I have the older, white version. http://www.rei.com/product/617913/msr-sweetwater-water-filter

this gets my vote, had mine for years as well

Third vote for this one. I've had mine for 7 or 8 years, use it to filter maybe 40-60 liters of water per season, and it's still going strong.

Pros:

- Pumps on up and down strokes. Not all filters do. I was filtering once at Wapama Falls and and a hiker actually stopped and climbed down from the bridge to ask me what kind of filter I had, because it filled up my water bottle so quickly.
- Short of breaking the plastic and having it freeze up inside, there is no problem you can't fix in the field in a matter of a few minutes. If you don't man-handle it like an idiot, you won't break the plastic.
- Has an optional Silt Filter that makes a huge difference in keeping it from slowly clogging up with Sierra silt. Don't use this in the Sierras w/o the silt filter.
- If it starts to clog up, you can spend 5 minutes scrubbing the main filter and the silt filter (even though they say not to do this) with the included brush. Works like new again.
- Mega-reliable
- Imparts no taste



Cons:

- Filters are crazy expensive. I go through one main filter, and one silt filter, per season in the Sierras. That's like $60 in filters. Filters are a recurring item on my christmas list now.
- It's a bitch getting it back into its case. The piping always wants to spring out, or cross-contaminate, or the floatie thing pops out and falls into the stream, or something else annoying happens.
- If it freezes up inside, you are screwed. Gotta un-freeze it if you want water, and that's awfully hard to do during 20 degree mornings
- Hard to pack up if you have cold / numb fingers, as often happens when you are futzing around with ice-cold stream water. You need some finger dexterity to collapse it to pack it back up.
- If it is too clogged, the water from the current up- or down-stroke sprays out the bypass valve. Which is always, without fail, aimed at my grimacing face.

Do I like it? No. I freaking hate filtering water, so by implication I freaking hate this water filter. It just happens to work really well, has been ridiculously reliable for many years, has sentimental attachment for providing me with essential nourishment on all of my trips, and is lighter and better than any katadyn I've tried. It's a love-hate thing. The last thing I want to be doing is be squatting over a stream with both hands fully committed to balancing a water bottle on a never-quite-level rock, pumping the filter like mad, getting leg cramps and watching mosquitoes feast on me while I can't do anything about it.

I never knew these SteriPen thingies could actually work. I might buy one, yes yes the OPTI, for a trip this weekend and see how it goes. Cool, a new toy!! I've only had to filter from a mucky bog once out of desperation, and boy was I glad I had a proper water filter, but otherwise I think the OPTI would work for me in most cases. Besides I can always try filtering thru a handkerchief if the yellow slimy stuff is grossing me out too much.

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Ataim
I'm getting ready for my trip and the only thing I don have is a water purifier. What do you use? I'll use it a few time a year, so I don't want to spend 100 buck on one, but I also don't what to get sick.

Thanks,

Paul

I've had a Katadyn Hiker for many years, which has always been fine when I needed it. Pay heed to the instructions about drying it out for storage though, if you store it away wet you'll need to buy a new filter prematurely.

I suppose if I was more fanatical about purifying water, the pens might be a good choice, but it would be a waste of money for me. I should be preparing for a miserable time, after some nice refreshing drinks from Ribbon Creek, Tenaya Creek, and a little spring last week with no thought of getting the filter out, but somehow, after many years of doing the same thing, I'm not the least bit worried. Not a popular view around this forum, but water is a natural substance and we're meant to drink lots of it, even before there were filters, chlorine, iodine (yuck), or UV pens. Common sense in where and what you drink goes a long way in alleviating the need to filter or add poisonous chlorine or iodine to every drop of water that enters our pampered selves. We've been conditioned to be afraid of that lovely, ice-cold mountain stream with it's tasty, refreshing water, and the freedom of dipping your cup in for a refreshing drink. And of course, any digestive disturbance one suffers while or after camping is immediately blamed on the water, even if it was just a little used to wash the dishes (must have been the dishwater...).

But it is always wise to carry a filter or pen if you prefer, and use it when your common sense tells you it's necessary.

---

Gary
Yosemite Photo Galleries: http://www.pbase.com/roberthouse/yo

I read this article on Giardia in the Sierras in 2004.
Seldom treated any Sierra water after that. Lived to tell the tale. YMMV.

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KatyAnderson
I read this article on Giardia in the Sierras in 2004.
Seldom treated any Sierra water after that. Lived to tell the tale. YMMV.

Wow! Only one person mentions that Giardia paper. Here's more from the esteemed Bob R:

60,000 Liters of Water Consumed -- Untreated

And more discussions, with links to many studies. I especially like the 'smoking gun' study that launched the water filter craze, and has since been debunked in the first post in this thread: Water and Giardia around Mt. Whitney

And another with links to a number of studies: Filter question

Bottom line from all the studies and from my own experience: The biggest cause of intestinal issues for hikers are poor hygiene and improper food storage. The ONLY places Dr. Derlet found water contaminated enough to cause a problem was from runoff below areas of stock use.

I stopped carrying any sort of water treatment for a number of years. Every time I am in Yosemite, I dip and drink right out of the streams and river as long as I am off the valley floor. Last year I packed my family to Thousand Island Lake with kayaks, and all our water came directly from the lake (Derlet found lake water more purified, probably due to solar UV.)

I realize this can become a personal and even emotional issue for some people, and I would never try to force anyone to dip and drink. But if I am hiking with others, I tell them beforehand that I am not treating the water, and they are welcome to carry whatever device or chemicals they want. All I know is that once I stopped filtering, my enjoyment of the mountains increased. It is SO easy to just dip and drink. No more hassle with pulling out the filter, squatting by the stream for all that time; filtering enough to carry for several hours. I found that, due to the hassle, I was never drinking enough water, which led to discomfort due to dehydration issues.

Now I just hook a 600 ml titanium cup to my belt (same one I cook my dinner in), and whenever I come to a stream, I make sure I drink a cup full. It truly is a pleasure.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/09/2012 12:33AM by SteveC.

I tried using a titanium cup. sux for hot drinks.

There is a large contingency who think you are more or less an idiot for even
thinking of treating Sierra water.

I'm an idiot

(seriously though I just Steripen... and if something happens to it I don't worry
about just drinking the water... anymore than I worry about bears attacking me
or a rattlesnake jumping from a tree onto me ... or was that a cougar? )

---

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KatyAnderson
I read this article on Giardia in the Sierras in 2004.
Seldom treated any Sierra water after that. Lived to tell the tale. YMMV.

that's nice.

I know 20+ people who would tell you research ain't the whole picture. They lived to tell the tale of giardia and how awful it is.

The swiftwater rescue team in my county have ALL had it, and you can't really blame kitchen habits of backpackers for their cases. They don't backpack. They do water rescue and recovery in mountain streams and rivers up and down the central Sierra, tho. Quite a growing number of the hikers and backpackers I know personally have told me their tales of woe and vomit.

You may very well be one of the 50% who carry it and never have symptoms. Bully for you, I'd rather be hiking than in the doctor's office or the hospital, so I filter consistently.

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AlmostThere
You may very well be one of the 50% who carry it and never have symptoms.

And spreading it.

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AlmostThere

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KatyAnderson
I read this article on Giardia in the Sierras in 2004.
Seldom treated any Sierra water after that. Lived to tell the tale. YMMV.

that's nice.

I know 20+ people who would tell you research ain't the whole picture. They lived to tell the tale of giardia and how awful it is.

The swiftwater rescue team in my county have ALL had it, and you can't really blame kitchen habits of backpackers for their cases. They don't backpack. They do water rescue and recovery in mountain streams and rivers up and down the central Sierra, tho. Quite a growing number of the hikers and backpackers I know personally have told me their tales of woe and vomit.

You may very well be one of the 50% who carry it and never have symptoms. Bully for you, I'd rather be hiking than in the doctor's office or the hospital, so I filter consistently.

I would guess that the vast majority of those rescues took place at much lower elevations than the article talks about.

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AlmostThere

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KatyAnderson
I read this article on Giardia in the Sierras in 2004.
Seldom treated any Sierra water after that. Lived to tell the tale. YMMV.

that's nice.

I know 20+ people who would tell you research ain't the whole picture. They lived to tell the tale of giardia and how awful it is.

The swiftwater rescue team in my county have ALL had it, and you can't really blame kitchen habits of backpackers for their cases. They don't backpack. They do water rescue and recovery in mountain streams and rivers up and down the central Sierra, tho. Quite a growing number of the hikers and backpackers I know personally have told me their tales of woe and vomit.

You may very well be one of the 50% who carry it and never have symptoms. Bully for you, I'd rather be hiking than in the doctor's office or the hospital, so I filter consistently.

Giardia is always the bug that gets blamed. BUT... unless someone actually have their poop tested, AND it comes up positive, you cannot be sure. Giardia is the popular bug to blame -- it is so easy to pronounce, and everybody talks about it. Every time someone has diarrhea, they can call it that, but it doesn't make it a true statement. If you look it up, some of the most common places where Giardia occurs is related to pre-schools and swimming pools, NOT mountain streams.

And I have had a case of it myself. The symptoms weren't bad, and they completely disappeared after the first dose of Flagyl. (Awful tasting pills, by the way.) I did NOT contract it from the mountains -- the timeframe just didn't fit. It takes 5 to 7 days after ingestion for the process to cause symptoms, and that is from scientifically researched data.

Unfortunately, it is people repeating tales like that of the swiftwater rescue people that continue the whole water filter hype. It is far more likely that they got some tainted food somewhere, or someone didn't clean up properly before handling their food.

I don't care if people do want to use filters or treat their water -- it is their money, their time, and their extra weight. But I DO mind when stories like this get repeated without ANY evidence to back them up.

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SteveC
Unfortunately, it is people repeating tales like that of the swiftwater rescue people that continue the whole water filter hype. It is far more likely that they got some tainted food somewhere, or someone didn't clean up properly before handling their food.

I don't care if people do want to use filters or treat their water -- it is their money, their time, and their extra weight. But I DO mind when stories like this get repeated without ANY evidence to back them up.

It seems there are enough computer-savvy people around, on the board and elsewhere, who should know how logic works.

"We all went to the Sierra, and washed our dishes in, or drank water from the stream, and we got sick. Therefore the water was bad."

Wrong, unscientific, and absolutely only anecdotal proof of anything other than a bunch of people got sick. If you want a REAL answer, take 20 or 50 people on the same trip, feed them the same, see that they all wash well and monitor other hygiene habits; give them identical-appearing water bottles, double-blind, one batch taken from say the Merced at mid-stream, one from bottled "purified" water. If anyone gets sick or has digestive problems within the couple of weeks, they report it. The statistics are compiled, then the codes on the water are matched to who drank what. If there's a significant imbalance in who got sick and who didn't, and the river-water drinkers are the sick ones, you have a good start to a valid conclusion. Now repeat the tests and get even more genuine proof, other rivers, other groups. But nobody bothers...it's easier to just say "if you drink from rivers or springs in the Sierra, you get giardia or other horrible consequences, so just take our word for it and filter or purify everything."

The anecdotal tales mean absolutely nothing without genuine, valid tests as above. It's the same as clicking something on the computer, then later finding you have a virus, and assuming that's where you got it. Maybe, maybe not, but if someone's going to fix it, they have to find the true source and can't assume anything. If you want to filter or treat your water with various poisons to feel safe, great, but that doesn't make those who choose otherwise foolish. Even tests of the water prove little; if you live in a sterile environment, you're subject to all sorts of maladies if you go outside. Those exposed to these same conditions in normal life will handle it like our bodies are made to handle it, like every other living creature is made to be able to drink water without having to go through a bunch of man-made rigamarole first.

So in fact, those who "pamper" themselves by zealously purifying everything (wait, where was that waiter's finger when he brought your water glass?) might actually be making themselves MORE susceptible to minor impurities or organisms when they get out in nature. Ironic, but certainly every bit as valid a theory as the giardia paranoia, if not more valid.

On the other hand, one might decide which conclusion they want to reach, and go from there. "Water in the Sierra is dangerous and you'll get giardia and other bad things. What about the ones who don't get sick, and drink straight from the stream, using nothing but common sense? They're just carriers, who don't get it, but give it to all the rest of us. Or, if not, they'll get theirs, just wait, they just haven't gotten it yet." One can rationalize anything they want if they try. A lot of folks, including me, who recently enjoyed fresh water from the Merced, Tenaya creek, and Ribbon Creek, drink sensibly from open sources and don't get sick. You can dismiss them as fools if you want, or blame them for being carriers, or whatever, but lacking any genuine proof of anything, if one or the other has to be the fool, would it be the one happily appreciating a natural drink from a natural source, simply dipped and enjoyed, or the one laboriously pumping it through filters, battering it with UV rays, or adding poison to it before they drink?

---

Gary
Yosemite Photo Galleries: http://www.pbase.com/roberthouse/yo

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AlmostThere

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KatyAnderson
I read this article on Giardia in the Sierras in 2004.
Seldom treated any Sierra water after that. Lived to tell the tale. YMMV.

that's nice.

I know 20+ people who would tell you research ain't the whole picture. They lived to tell the tale of giardia and how awful it is.

The swiftwater rescue team in my county have ALL had it, and you can't really blame kitchen habits of backpackers for their cases. They don't backpack. They do water rescue and recovery in mountain streams and rivers up and down the central Sierra, tho. Quite a growing number of the hikers and backpackers I know personally have told me their tales of woe and vomit.

You may very well be one of the 50% who carry it and never have symptoms. Bully for you, I'd rather be hiking than in the doctor's office or the hospital, so I filter consistently.

I know a couple of people who always treated their water (one using a good water filter another with purification pills). Both have suffered from giardiasis (at different times).

One can contract giardia by other means besides treating contaminated water or bad backcountry hygienes. Yet many people think if they get it, it was bad water.

Personally, I filter my water, not just out in the backcountry but at home too. But I do it more because I'm a bit spoiled about my drinking water and how it looks and taste and I enjoy it more without the chlorinated taste that unfiltered tap water has and I really don't like any seeing any visibile particulates (even if they're harmless) when I drinking water from a creek or lake.

There's really a straightforward scientific-based way to settle this debate. Just perform accurate water quality tests on the various water sources around the Sierra on a regular basis and see what the results say. If the water source meets the requirements of the EPA for safe drinking water, then one obviously should be able to drink water from that wild source untreated with very little risk of contracting a waterborne disease. It it doesn't meet the standards, then there's an increased risk of contracting some sort of disease or illness as the result of drinking the unclean water (based on the EPA standards of clean drinking water).

Another thing I'll say though is that there are other pathogens that can be in the untreated water besides giardia, which if why the water ought to meet the EPA standards for safe drinking water for all types of contamination and not just for giarda.

But from reading the results of various water quality tests done of various Sierra Nevada water sources, the Sierra Nevada giardia scare is definitely overblown IMHO. But that doesn't mean one shouldn't treat or filter their water but more that one shouldn't be so worried if they need to drink unfiltered water (at least in regards to contracting giardiasis).

.

I too think that the issue is way overblown. I rarely used to filter water and have been fine. That being said, on chick-on's reccomendation I did pick up a steripen opti during REI's 20% off sale, so I would have it for the end of the summer when the water is dried up and you're stuck with the puddles in the stream bed.

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Ataim
I'm getting ready for my trip and the only thing I don have is a water purifier. What do you use? I'll use it a few time a year, so I don't want to spend 100 buck on one, but I also don't what to get sick.

Thanks,

Paul

I've got a filter that I bought cheap a few years ago, but I never had a chance to use it in the field. It was an MSR Sweetwater, and it was something like $45 on sale at REI. The "purifier" drops they sell for it is just ordinary bleach, although the concentration may be different than household bleach. The only thing that the bleach would get that the filter doesn't would be viruses.

Other than that, for a few times a year others mentioned tablets. You'll just have to put up with the taste, which isn't that bad. I found that the chlorine dioxide tabs tasted better after my bottle had been sitting in the sun. They'd sit overnight in the dark long enough for the 4 hour time to kill cryptosporidium, but once done the stuff would break down in the sunlight. Then there are the two part iodine tabs. The second part is a taste neutralizer, which I understand is just vitamin C.

The chemical packaged with the MSR Sweetwater is just for the viruses that might be in the water, so doesn't have to be at all effective against the other stuff, which the filter gets. Bleach works for viruses and not for much else.

Iodine is risky stuff - it's not terribly effective against giardia, and not at all against crypto - and there are health risks associated with repeated usage. Not for pregnant ladies and it has been known to cause allergic reactions that result in the victim not being able to eat sea food or table salt due to iodine traces.

the four hour time for crypto is also dependent on other variables - clarity of the water, and temperature of the water. Micropur specifies this in a chart I've seen posted on the websites of some vendors.

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AlmostThere
The chemical packaged with the MSR Sweetwater is just for the viruses that might be in the water, so doesn't have to be at all effective against the other stuff, which the filter gets. Bleach works for viruses and not for much else.

Iodine is risky stuff - it's not terribly effective against giardia, and not at all against crypto - and there are health risks associated with repeated usage. Not for pregnant ladies and it has been known to cause allergic reactions that result in the victim not being able to eat sea food or table salt due to iodine traces.

the four hour time for crypto is also dependent on other variables - clarity of the water, and temperature of the water. Micropur specifies this in a chart I've seen posted on the websites of some vendors.

I remember seeing some copy for the Micropur MP-1 tabs that had recommended time for other assorted pathogens. It was something like 15 minutes for bacteria/viruses, 30 minutes for giardia, and 4 hourse for crypto. These days its a flat four hour recommendation, although I don't think anything really changed.I believe viruses tend to be quickly killed though. Katadyn had a water bottle purifier (with a newer version too) that included a micron filter with an iodine cartridge to kill viruses. Basically the water only passed through the iodine matrix for a few seconds, but that was enough to render viruses dead.

I'm pretty sure that bleach is effective against bacteria. The residual chlorine (or chloramine) in municipal water is supposed to reduce bacteria - especially where they might grow in the distribution system. I even remember old phone books used to contain emergency procedures, which included how to make questionable water potable. It recommended ordinary household bleach to kill bacteria and viruses, although it was something like a teaspoon per gallon. Bleach should work against giardia full strength or even diluted, but a few drops in a liter of water isn't going to do it. Frankly bleach can be extremely effective at the full strength of maybe Clorox bleach, but then again who would be crazy enough to drink it?

From that article:

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Robert Derlet of UC Davis has done extensive testing, and has found serious levels of E coli as high as 7600 feet, but none higher.

To be honest, I always wondering how the water in Yosemite or the Sierra at large could still be contaminated, since most (all?) sheep/cow grazing in the high meadows no longer occurs.

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y_p_w


I'm pretty sure that bleach is effective against bacteria. The residual chlorine (or chloramine) in municipal water is supposed to reduce bacteria - especially where they might grow in the distribution system. I even remember old phone books used to contain emergency procedures, which included how to make questionable water potable. It recommended ordinary household bleach to kill bacteria and viruses, although it was something like a teaspoon per gallon. Bleach should work against giardia full strength or even diluted, but a few drops in a liter of water isn't going to do it. Frankly bleach can be extremely effective at the full strength of maybe Clorox bleach, but then again who would be crazy enough to drink it?

The CDC disagrees with you. It's not effective against giardia and there are no real guidelines for how much of it to use for any of the backcountry critters.

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AlmostThere

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y_p_w


I'm pretty sure that bleach is effective against bacteria. The residual chlorine (or chloramine) in municipal water is supposed to reduce bacteria - especially where they might grow in the distribution system. I even remember old phone books used to contain emergency procedures, which included how to make questionable water potable. It recommended ordinary household bleach to kill bacteria and viruses, although it was something like a teaspoon per gallon. Bleach should work against giardia full strength or even diluted, but a few drops in a liter of water isn't going to do it. Frankly bleach can be extremely effective at the full strength of maybe Clorox bleach, but then again who would be crazy enough to drink it?

The CDC disagrees with you. It's not effective against giardia and there are no real guidelines for how much of it to use for any of the backcountry critters.

I wasn't saying that bleach would be terribly effective against giardia in any kind of concentration that someone could tolerate in drinking water. However, it is useful for cleaning up surface contamination such as cleaning up stuff that a dog with giardia might have pooped on.

http://www.marvistavet.com/html/giardia.html

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The most readily available effective disinfectant is probably bleach diluted 1:32 in water which required less than one minute of contact to kill Giardia cysts in one study. Organic matter such as dirt or stool is protective to the cyst so on a concrete surface basic cleaning should be effected prior to disinfection. Animals should be thoroughly bathed before being reintroduced into a “clean” area. A properly chlorinated swimming pool should not be able to become contaminated. As for areas with lawn or plants, decontamination will not be possible without killing the plants and allowing the area to dry out in direct sunlight.

There are a whole lot of recommendations to clean up giardia contaminated surfaces with diluted household bleach. However, if I tried drinking that concentration of bleach, it would probably cause some nasty chemical burns. I saw other recommendations for a 1:10 solution. That article mentions that a swimming pool would avoid being contaminated, but the chlorine levels tend to be high and you're talking continuous exposure to the chlorine.

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y_p_w

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Ataim
I'm getting ready for my trip and the only thing I don have is a water purifier. What do you use? I'll use it a few time a year, so I don't want to spend 100 buck on one, but I also don't what to get sick.

Thanks,

Paul

I've got a filter that I bought cheap a few years ago, but I never had a chance to use it in the field. It was an MSR Sweetwater, and it was something like $45 on sale at REI. The "purifier" drops they sell for it is just ordinary bleach, although the concentration may be different than household bleach. The only thing that the bleach would get that the filter doesn't would be viruses.

Other than that, for a few times a year others mentioned tablets. You'll just have to put up with the taste, which isn't that bad. I found that the chlorine dioxide tabs tasted better after my bottle had been sitting in the sun. They'd sit overnight in the dark long enough for the 4 hour time to kill cryptosporidium, but once done the stuff would break down in the sunlight. Then there are the two part iodine tabs. The second part is a taste neutralizer, which I understand is just vitamin C.

I also paid around $45 for mine. Shame to see it is now $90!

OK subterfuge: report please!

I made a version of the Platypus Gravityworks by getting the filter and the specific bags I wanted individually. Super easy to use. Claims to be good against giardia, but who knows? I haven't gotten sick using it (yet...).



[oops, this picture is a previous version I tried with a different- and worse- filter, but the idea is the same]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/11/2012 06:44PM by vitaminC.

I think UV is the way to go. Chemical has a hard time with parasites (because of the lack of penetration through the "shells" and physical has a hard time with viruses and smaller bacteria. Just make sure the UV is used in water that is pre-filtered or naturally low turbidity and that the retention time is long enough (follow the instructions.)

I've done a lot of water analysis and studies of water pathogens during my studies at school, and crypto and giardia (especially crypto) are the main ones that are difficult to kill. That said, I think the chances of them being in water sources at high elevation, especially if the stream is moving and exposed to sunlight, is pretty slim. I'm obsessive though, so I sterilize anyway.

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dqniel
I think UV is the way to go. Chemical has a hard time with parasites (because of the lack of penetration through the "shells" and physical has a hard time with viruses and smaller bacteria. Just make sure the UV is used in water that is pre-filtered or naturally low turbidity and that the retention time is long enough (follow the instructions.)

I've done a lot of water analysis and studies of water pathogens during my studies at school, and crypto and giardia (especially crypto) are the main ones that are difficult to kill. That said, I think the chances of them being in water sources at high elevation, especially if the stream is moving and exposed to sunlight, is pretty slim. I'm obsessive though, so I sterilize anyway.

I'll trust UV when people stop coming up to me holding one and asking if they can borrow my filter.

Maybe not even then - I'd rather have a filter in places like Henry Coe. A filter with activated charcoal in it, too.

Pa lease... well... lemme do the math... hmm... since Aug of last year..
1 2 3... 29 backpacking trips... used the Steripen every time...
worked every time... hmm... looks good to this bird.

mwa mwa mwa

EDIT: ok, I lied ... 3 of those were dayhikes (which I used my Steripen on)

---

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/18/2012 08:49PM by chick-on.

Plus...in the Wind River's Cirque I had a filter user ask to borrow my Steripen.

(though on the topic of Coe and its skunky pond water...I did observe above that circumstances vary)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/18/2012 08:52PM by ttilley.

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chick-on

Pa lease... well... lemme do the math... hmm... since Aug of last year..
1 2 3... 29 backpacking trips... used the Steripen every time...
worked every time... hmm... looks good to this bird.

mwa mwa mwa

You have to admit though, before you got the "Opti" version of the SteriPEN Adventurer, you thought SteriPENs stunk too.

.

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plawrence

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chick-on

Pa lease... well... lemme do the math... hmm... since Aug of last year..
1 2 3... 29 backpacking trips... used the Steripen every time...
worked every time... hmm... looks good to this bird.

mwa mwa mwa

You have to admit though, before you got the "Opti" version of the SteriPEN Adventurer, you thought SteriPENs stunk too.

.

"But it worked the last 59 times I used it."

Seriously, when it comes to having things like clean water and reliable navigation, I just can't bring myself to trust anything battery driven. Guess you have to be out looking for three days for some dude who had a GPS and cell phone to develop that suspicion.

I do know folks who use steri-pens, fortunately for them there are always filter users nearby...

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AlmostThere

"But it worked the last 59 times I used it."

Seriously, when it comes to having things like clean water and reliable navigation, I just can't bring myself to trust anything battery driven. Guess you have to be out looking for three days for some dude who had a GPS and cell phone to develop that suspicion.

I do know folks who use steri-pens, fortunately for them there are always filter users nearby...

I currently use three filters. A SteriPEN Emergency (basically a red colored SteriPEN Traveler), Katadyn Vario, and the Sawyer Squeeze filter. There's no perfect filter or purifier. All have their advantages and disadvantages.

The Sawyer is a great filter since its extremely lightweight, fast and has no moving parts to wear down or break. It's biggest limitation is that you have to prevent it from freezing, since freezing will destroy its membrane filter.

The SteriPEN is my first choice if I'm going be in areas where freezing temps are a concern. And of the three I use, it's the only one that will kill viruses (in other words, a true purifier). It's also pretty light, though not as light as the Sawyer and since mine is an old fashioned model (not an "opti" ) I might need to add a pinch of salt to the water if the water is too mineral free for it to activate. To me, that's really not a big deal. Of course it needs batteries to operate. But my model uses Lithium AA batteries, so battery life really isn't a problem for me when out in the field.

On the other hand, the Katadyn Vario is great for more turbid water and I find it easier to use than the SteriPEN if I want to fill large bladders with filtered water. But it's the heaviest and bulkiest of the three.

When I go on a multi-night backpacking trip, I'll always pack two of the three for trip. Which two depends where I'm going, the temperature range I expect to encounter, and the quality of water I expect to use.

And in regards to your comment about going out on search and rescues for people who relied on their GPS, I would speculate that a higher percentage of people who relied only on maps and compass probably had to be rescued that those that had relied solely on a GPS. That's just speculation on my part. I wonder if anyone has conducted a formal study in regards to this (maps and compass vs. GPS in regards to ending up having to be rescued out in the wilderness).



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/21/2012 10:07AM by plawrence.

With the Steripen, how does one deal with contaminated droplets above the water line in the bottle and on the external threads? Is this a problem? I have read where people simply wipe down the threads with a towel, but I don't see that that would work very well on the inside of the bottle. Steripen simply acknowledges that those droplets are obviously not 'decontaminated', but provides no practical guidance on whether it is a concern or how to deal with it. Maybe the number of microorganisms in those droplets is insufficient to overwhelm the bodies defenses. Still, it seems lots of people are using the Steripen with no ill effects, so was wondering if they do something or just don't worry about it.


Thanks

I don't worry about it, though I see in their FAQ they changed their prior suggestion of not worrying about it to a suggestion that one wipe the threads of the bottle.

Relevant SteriPen FAQ

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plawrence
You have to admit though, before you got the "Opti" version of the SteriPEN Adventurer, you thought SteriPENs stunk too.

Yes, and when Tom said to get the Opti I did and am happy with it.
So I listen and learn. Watch and learn. Am open to new ideas, methods, etc.
I try hard to be positive. There's so much negativity it's almost depressing.
The replacement Inline Filter I have sitting right here may become
what I end up using in the future. We'll see.
Nothing is infallible. Anything mechanical typically will break long before non.
You could lose your precious map... walk off the end of what you had planned, etc.
The point was... I use XYZ and use it a lot. So when someone slams it... well... does not compute.

Anyway, have a nice day... and if you want to climb Half Dome... be safe and enjoy the
most beautiful place on this green earth in this Chick-on's brain.

---

REI has the MSR MiniWorks EX on sale for $59.99 now until the 28th.

http://www.rei.com/product/695265/msr-miniworks-ex-water-filter

...and, they have the Steripen Opti for $65: http://www.rei.com/product/799003/steripen-adventurer-opti-water-purifier.

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basilbop
...and, they have the Steripen Opti for $65: http://www.rei.com/product/799003/steripen-adventurer-opti-water-purifier.

How does that differ from the Steripen Adventurer Opti Water Purifier 2012?

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eeek

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basilbop
...and, they have the Steripen Opti for $65: http://www.rei.com/product/799003/steripen-adventurer-opti-water-purifier.

How does that differ from the Steripen Adventurer Opti Water Purifier 2012?

The one you linked to is the kit with the solar charging case:

Steripen Adventurer Opti with Solar Charging Case

The kit also includes one rechargeable RCR123 battery. (A RCR123 battery is a double-sized CR123 battery)

.

I like the Katadyn Mybottle. Like the Sawyer Squeeze, but with a bottle, you just scoop up water, squeeze and drink. I spoke with a Katadyn rep and she assured me that the virustat element in the filter--which is essentially iodine--is not needed "in North America" so I'm about to switch to the simpler and lighter two-piece filter, which I hope will improve flow. (By the way the older design bottle gives better flow from the mouthpiece than the more recent one, in my experience.)

I don't use a platypus--water is heavy! So with this system I don't carry much water while hiking. Just stop, drink a bottle and continue--unless of course I know that there's a long waterless stretch ahead. Also, all my meals use boiled water. Since there's nothing to break, the system is foolproof; and it's pretty darn light. YMMV.

Well I wound up buying a Sawyer squeeze filter. Here in Texas the water does have some turbidity and I wanted a filter to could also use at home. My water source will not always be a clean as in the mountains. And it only weights 3 oz.

Thanks for all of the advice.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/21/2012 05:33AM by Ataim.