Re: Information on how the shut down will affect Yosemite

Wow......

http://www.kcet.org/living/travel/socal_wanderer/briefs/we-apologize-for-the-potential.html

The NPS site is offline, as well as Reserve.gov (the campground reservation site).

There are forklifts blocking entry to the Mall/monuments and they are turning off the fountains in DC.

What an embarrassment to the world.

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The body betrays and the weather conspires, hopefully, not on the same day.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/01/2013 09:11AM by Bee.

Well this certainly puts a crimp in my plans to be there Sunday. I just hope DNC has the decency not to charge me for my reservation.

NATIONAL PARK SERVICE CONTINGENCY PLAN QUESTIONS & ANSWERS
September 27, 2013

We continue to hope that Congress will reach an agreement to avoid a government shutdown,we are working to prepare for all possible scenarios. The following document provides information regarding the National Park Service’s contingency plans in the event of a government shutdown.

Are national parks open?
No. If there is a lapse in appropriations, all 401 national parks would be closed. Examples include: Statue of Liberty, Independence National Historical Park (including Independence Hall and the Liberty Bell), Yellowstone National Park and Golden Gate National Recreation Area. In
addition, the following would apply:

• All park entrances are closed and secured.
• Visitor centers and other facilities are closed.
• Education programs and special events are canceled.
• Permits for special events are rescinded.
• Guests staying in hotels and campgrounds will be given 48 hours to leave.
• A small number of National Park Service employees remain to protect park resources.

What about roads through parks?
The national parks are closed, roads that serve as thruways will remain open.

When would the parks reopen?
We would reopen national parks as soon as appropriations are provided.

What events would be canceled because of the shutdown?
All events scheduled at national parks.

I haveThis isaareservation to stay at a park hotel; can I get my deposit back?
That is a question each individual park concessioner would address.

I’m already staying in a park hotel/campground. Can I remain during the shutdown?
No. Visitors in overnight accommodations and campgrounds will be given 48 hours to leave the park.

What happens to rangers during the shutdown?
A limited number of National Park Service law enforcement and other employees needed to secure parks and provide law enforcement, emergency services, and firefighting are exempt from the furlough.

Is there anyone I can contact atif I have questions?
Please visit the DOI website: http://www.doi.gov/

The AP is reporting that the House will pass a bill keeping the national parks, monuments and so forth open. The article did not say if the Senate would go along.

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Mom
The AP is reporting that the House will pass a bill keeping the national parks, monuments and so forth open.

That sounds like they're just trying to contain some of the voter loss this is causing.

If the Senate doesn't go along with keeping the national parks open, then the Senate gets the blame.

S: "So, we've all agreed, then, we'll order a pepperoni and a mushroom pizza"

H: "Wait, forget what I agreed on before, I want anchovies on everything."

S: "No one wants that"

H: "Lots of people do!"

S: "We're not ordering anchovies, we've already agreed on pepperoni and mushroom"

H: "THEN WE'LL SHUT DOWN ALL THE PIZZA HUTS!"

S: "That's dumb"

H: "Yes it's dumb but it is ALL YOUR FAULT FOR REFUSING ANCHOVIES AND NOW YOU'RE FORCING ALL OF US TO GO WITHOUT ANY PIZZA!"

Sorry, that's how I translated the conversation in my head. In the voices of whiny children.

As far as useful info: I've heard from reliable sources on both sides that Tioga Pass is both closed and open. Unfortunately the staff is as confused and frustrated as the rest of us. So don't count on anything if you're heading through.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 10/01/2013 12:59PM by calipidder.

I see it more like a bully saying; "you made me hit you."

This was in the link that Mt Man posted above

"All through roads will remain open: Highway 120, Highway 41, and Highway 140. No stopping along the roads or parking to recreate within the park will be allowed."

That's what it says, but a friend of mine called ahead from the east side a couple of hours ago and was told that the gates were closed. She's trying to decide whether to believe that or not, go the longer route around or take her chances with Tioga.

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calipidder
That's what it says, but a friend of mine called ahead from the east side a couple of hours ago and was told that the gates were closed. She's trying to decide whether to believe that or not, go the longer route around or take her chances with Tioga.

Everything I've heard says it will remain open. Including this: http://www.monolake.org/today/2013/09/30/tioga-pass-stays-open-during-government-shutdown/

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calipidder
That's what it says, but a friend of mine called ahead from the east side a couple of hours ago and was told that the gates were closed. She's trying to decide whether to believe that or not, go the longer route around or take her chances with Tioga.

"The gates were closed" could have several meanings. The entrance station kiosks are closed but the road is open... at least everything official I have read says all the gates will remain open.

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parklover
This was in the link that Mt Man posted above

"All through roads will remain open: Highway 120, Highway 41, and Highway 140. No stopping along the roads or parking to recreate within the park will be allowed."

And no looking at the scenery either!

I wonder what the thru-hikers that are looking to resupply at TM are going to do. Then there are the JMT north-bound hikers expecting to get picked either in TM or at HI.

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Old Dude

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mrcondron
I wonder what the thru-hikers that are looking to resupply at TM are going to do. Then there are the JMT north-bound hikers expecting to get picked either in TM or at HI.

Old Guy, The store has been closed for a couple of weeks already...

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Oh.

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Old Dude

If you drive up and park on the Tioga Road, how are they going to know whether you came up before or after the shutdown?. There are likely cars parked there for backpackers who have been in the backcountry since before this shutdown and have no idea what's going on in Washington. And with the rangers furloughed, who is going to be enforcing anything anyway?

Not all rangers are being furlough. There will still be staff for security and safety reasons and there must be some on patrol on the roads in case of emergencies.

It would be interesting if all the visitors at the lodge and all the campers in Yosemite said, "No, we're not leaving". I doubt the Park would have enough law enforcement resources, etc. left to enforce kicking all those people out. The DNC would love it if the guests stayed. They would keep the restaurants open and still provide lodging as they are not employees of the government. I guess the Rangers could lock the restrooms in the campgrounds, but I doubt they would do so as the campground hosts are going to be allowed to stay. Where's Henry David Thoreau when we need him?,

No parking to 'recreate', ha. If perchance I were seen wandering in Tuolumne Meadows and stopped by a ranger, I'd just say I was answering the call of nature.

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Mom
No parking to 'recreate', ha. If perchance I were seen wandering in Tuolumne Meadows and stopped by a ranger, I'd just say I was answering the call of nature.

That might get you in more trouble than just recreating.

And the beat goes on!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2013/10/01/House-to-pass-bills-to-reopen-national-parks--VA

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W7SG
And the beat goes on!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2013/10/01/House-to-pass-bills-to-reopen-national-parks--VA

You shouldn't believe anything you read on that site. Did they mention what else was in that bill? The Republicans are well known for their dishonesty in claiming that the Democrats wouldn't vote for a certain bill but neglect to mention that it also contained something like a rider to end Social Security, or something like that. And, they should reopen the whole government, not just the feel good parts. The bill was a scam.

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Dave

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W7SG
And the beat goes on!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2013/10/01/House-to-pass-bills-to-reopen-national-parks--VA

You shouldn't believe anything you read on that site. Did they mention what else was in that bill? The Republicans are well known for their dishonesty in claiming that the Democrats wouldn't vote for a certain bill but neglect to mention that it also contained something like a rider to end Social Security, or something like that. And, they should reopen the whole government, not just the feel good parts. The bill was a scam.

Most likely another transparent attempt to pass the blame on others. If they rush through some sort of bill to reopen the parks, and the senate doesn't go for it (which I would hope they wouldn't), they will then claim it's the senate's, or the president's fault. Hopefully no one is stupid enough to fall for a diversion tactic like that. I was heading to the campground in about 10 days, but would rather it still be closed than have these morons think they fooled anybody. There's a simple solution, do their job, pass the budget and leave their partisan garbage out of it. If they have an issue with something else, deal with that as it should be instead of victimizing the whole country.

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Gary
Yosemite Photo Galleries: http://www.pbase.com/roberthouse/yo

I fear for the health and welfare of all those abandoned, buzzing pizza alarm
thingys at Curry. Oh, the technology.

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Dave
Republicans are well known for their dishonesty

And yet some people still vote for them.

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eeek

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Dave
Republicans are well known for their dishonesty

And yet some people still vote for them.

I'll *never* vote for the Democrats...ever.

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Ohnivy-Drak

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eeek

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Dave
Republicans are well known for their dishonesty

And yet some people still vote for them.

I'll *never* vote for the Democrats...ever.

At least they believe in democracy.

Guys, is there any chance we can keep this on topic and not on politics please? TIA.

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JohnC
Guys, is there any chance we can keep this on topic and not on politics please? TIA.

That might be hard to do since the shut down was caused by Republicans engaging in petty party politics and a deep seated, psychotic, hatred of Obama.

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eeek

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Dave
Republicans are well known for their dishonesty

And yet some people still vote for them.

"All politics are local". That's how they get elected.

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tomdisco
"All politics are local". That's how they get elected.

That along with a lot of Gerrymandering by the Regressives.

The parks Bear poulation will not be happy. No "munchies" left behind by park visitors.

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ERICG
The parks Bear poulation will not be happy. No "munchies" left behind by park visitors.

Say what???

I know the folks at NPS and the Forest Service we're working with are unavailable now. Will definitely put a couple of our projects on hold. My Congressman has the Park in his district. Won't make the mistake of pulling the lever for him again.

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KC
My Congressman has the Park in his district. Won't make the mistake of pulling the lever for him again.

I lived in his district when he was a state rep. Quite a RWNJ and beyond.

Well, DNC officially charged my card for a Sunday reservation. Come Sunday I will call my CC company and refuse the charge. That's BS.

Go to this section of their website and it will explain about what is going on with the charges for reservations. You can either reschedule or get a refund.

http://www.yosemitepark.com/government-shutdown-information.aspx



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/02/2013 10:22PM by parklover.

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parklover
Go to this section of their website and it will explain about what is going on with the charges for reservations. You can either reschedule or get a refund.

http://www.yosemitepark.com/government-shutdown-information.aspx

Thanks. I find it humerous they think you can reschedule when you don't know when they will be open. LoL!

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If you have an upcoming reservation and are not able to change your reservation to alternative dates, your reservation will be automatically cancelled and you will receive a full refund.

Funny, they didn't automatically cancel my reservation, they automatically charged me for it. My previous experinces dealing with DNC on the phone have been less than enjoyable. I'll just call my CC company and let them deal with it.

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JohnC

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parklover
Go to this section of their website and it will explain about what is going on with the charges for reservations. You can either reschedule or get a refund.

http://www.yosemitepark.com/government-shutdown-information.aspx

Thanks. I find it humerous they think you can reschedule when you don't know when they will be open. LoL!

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If you have an upcoming reservation and are not able to change your reservation to alternative dates, your reservation will be automatically cancelled and you will receive a full refund.

Funny, they didn't automatically cancel my reservation, they automatically charged me for it. My previous experinces dealing with DNC on the phone have been less than enjoyable. I'll just call my CC company and let them deal with it.

I'm not sure why you're surprised that your credit card got charged. Anytime I make a reservation for lodging inside Yosemite my credit card gets charged IMMEDIATELY (the same day I make make my reservation through their website or by phone) for the first night of my stay. It's a deposit that'll get refunded if I cancel in time or is automatically refunded in situations like this one.

As it's stated on their webpage about the park's closure, your deposit will get automatically refunded to you (unless you decide to reschedule your stay). You don't have to do anything (contact no one) to receive your refund.

So why contact your credit company over this? I would only contact my credit company if my deposit wasn't refunded within seven days of my reservation being cancelled by DNC.

.

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plawrence

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JohnC

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parklover
Go to this section of their website and it will explain about what is going on with the charges for reservations. You can either reschedule or get a refund.

http://www.yosemitepark.com/government-shutdown-information.aspx

Thanks. I find it humerous they think you can reschedule when you don't know when they will be open. LoL!

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If you have an upcoming reservation and are not able to change your reservation to alternative dates, your reservation will be automatically cancelled and you will receive a full refund.

Funny, they didn't automatically cancel my reservation, they automatically charged me for it. My previous experinces dealing with DNC on the phone have been less than enjoyable. I'll just call my CC company and let them deal with it.

I'm not sure why you're surprised that your credit card got charged. Anytime I make a reservation for lodging inside Yosemite my credit card gets charged IMMEDIATELY (the same day I make make my reservation through their website or by phone) for the first night of my stay. It's a deposit that'll get refunded if I cancel in time or is automatically refunded in situations like this one.

As it's stated on their webpage about the park's closure, your deposit will get automatically refunded to you (unless you decide to reschedule your stay). You don't have to do anything (contact no one) to receive your refund.

So why contact your credit company over this? I would only contact my credit company if my deposit wasn't refunded within seven days of my reservation being cancelled by DNC.

.

Well, I didn't make the reservation until last Saturday. Initially there was only a hold on my card. Today I saw it actually processed as a charge. Your card likely only has a hold placed on your limit until the 7 day cancellation window passes. I can't reschedule if I don't know when they will be open. So, how long will they wait to refund my money thinking/hoping I reschedule? I don't know. And based on my previous dealings with DNC where they have been far less than helpful with reservation questions and issues I have no great desire to call them and get the run around. One call to my CC company will resolve it much more easily. YMMV.

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JohnC

Well, I didn't make the reservation until last Saturday. Initially there was only a hold on my card. Today I saw it actually processed as a charge. Your card likely only has a hold placed on your limit until the 7 day cancellation window passes.

No, the "hold" which actually is a credit authorization is usually only for no more than three days (at the most) until the credit card company verifies that the charges are legit. But while the posting date might be delayed, the actual transaction date has always been listed as the date that the actual reservation was made.

Often I'll make the reservation for a room at the Yosemite Lodge a year in advance and my credit card is billed immediately (not after the 7-day cancellation window has passed). That's because DNC requires an actual deposit. Most other hotels nowadays don't, they just require your credit card number that they won't charge unless you don't cancel in time and are a no-show.

I was just trying to save you some time by letting you know that you don't need to do anything. Your deposit will be automatically refunded by DNC if Yosemite National Park is still closed the day that you were scheduled to arrive in Yosemite.

.

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plawrence

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JohnC

Well, I didn't make the reservation until last Saturday. Initially there was only a hold on my card. Today I saw it actually processed as a charge. Your card likely only has a hold placed on your limit until the 7 day cancellation window passes.

No, the "hold" which actually is a credit authorization is usually only for no more than three days (at the most) until the credit card company verifies that the charges are legit. But while the posting date might be delayed, the actual transaction date has always been listed as the date that the actual reservation was made.

Often I'll make the reservation for a room at the Yosemite Lodge a year in advance and my credit card is billed immediately (not after the 7-day cancellation window has passed). That's because DNC requires an actual deposit. Most other hotels nowadays don't, they just require your credit card number that they won't charge unless you don't cancel in time and are a no-show.

I was just trying to save you some time by letting you know that you don't need to do anything. Your deposit will be automatically refunded by DNC if Yosemite National Park is still closed the day that you were scheduled to arrive in Yosemite.

.

Thanks, I appreciate your intentions. I'm sure you are correct about the charges. I usually go in the fall when the crowds thin out and the rates come down. So, I've never made reservations "early". Unfortunately, booking online has been problematic in getting the Temp-RATE-ture promotional rates the last couple years. Calling them has been less pleasant than a trip to the dentist. It probably wouldn't hurt me to wait and see, but if a phone call is required it won't be to DNC.

JohnC-your reservation for tomorrow should have been canceled today and refunded. If you have any questions I am more than happy to help you after 230 pm tomorrow at the Curry Front Desk, 209-372-8333. Just know it may take a few days for you to see the refund back to your card. Trust me, on behalf of all of us here I wish you were arriving tomorrow, it's very surreal being here with no guests!

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highsierra1
JohnC-your reservation for tomorrow should have been canceled today and refunded. If you have any questions I am more than happy to help you after 230 pm tomorrow at the Curry Front Desk, 209-372-8333. Just know it may take a few days for you to see the refund back to your card. Trust me, on behalf of all of us here I wish you were arriving tomorrow, it's very surreal being here with no guests!

Thank you. I got an email today telling me that. I wish I were arriving too! But as I said befdore, it's only a bit annoying for me. I really feel sorry for folks who made a once in a lifetime journey only to be turned away. Me, I'll be back sometime soon. :-)

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Email from DNC
If your reservation was cancelled due to the US Government shutdown all cancel and change fees are waived. Reservation cancelled or modified within our 7 day cancel policy will forfeit the deposit charged.

A bit confusing on the refund part but it's my understanding it will be refunded.

It is really upsetting from a standpoint that you mentioned, so many people came from a very long distance to see the Sierra's, specifically Yosemite that I have talked to today. It has been emotional for me for so many reasons. I grew up outside Chicago, my furthest destination for vacation growing up was Missouri or Wisconsin, I never saw mountains until 2003 when I came here for a vacation with my best friend and the seeds were planted. I have called this home since 2006. This is our home that we love and feel very passionate about, all if us on this forum( ok I never post but I did occasionally when I was at Vogelsang but I stay with you all and appreciate your TR reports!). Whether we live here or recreate here, this is our place that we feel our best, break ourselves and push ourselves, feel connected, for many our spiritual temple. It is over and over again saddening to see the closure signs, the barricades and that people can't enjoy it for a day or days what we give so much of our heart to. How can nature be closed?

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highsierra1
It is over and over again saddening to see the closure signs, the barricades and that people can't enjoy it for a day or days what we give so much of our heart to. How can nature be closed?

In case anyone has not seen one of the "Nature Closed" signs (note that ignoring these signs can get pricey):

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The body betrays and the weather conspires, hopefully, not on the same day.

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JohnC
Funny, they didn't automatically cancel my reservation, they automatically charged me for it. My previous experinces dealing with DNC on the phone have been less than enjoyable. I'll just call my CC company and let them deal with it.

Maybe they are just being hopeful this will be over by then.

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Dave

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JohnC
Funny, they didn't automatically cancel my reservation, they automatically charged me for it. My previous experinces dealing with DNC on the phone have been less than enjoyable. I'll just call my CC company and let them deal with it.

Maybe they are just being hopeful this will be over by then.

Well, I am too. But realistically it's too late for this to get resolved overnight. It will now drag on for a while. Whatever happens will take a few days to reverse course and open back up. That won't happen before Sunday. When they figure it all out I'll decide my next step. I had already planned a winter trip so the fall trip will likely just get cancelled on my part.

Which leads to a question. Does anybody know how quickly the roads are plowed in the valley after a snow storm? Can you drive without chains the next day? How about if you are coming in from 140? Thanks for any winter tips you can provide. :-)

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JohnC
Well, I am too. But realistically it's too late for this to get resolved overnight. It will now drag on for a while. Whatever happens will take a few days to reverse course and open back up. That won't happen before Sunday. When they figure it all out I'll decide my next step. I had already planned a winter trip so the fall trip will likely just get cancelled on my part.

I'm not hopeful of anything but petty politics from the Teabaggers until the 15th. That's when the government begins to default on paying the bills.

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Which leads to a question. Does anybody know how quickly the roads are plowed in the valley after a snow storm? Can you drive without chains the next day? How about if you are coming in from 140? Thanks for any winter tips you can provide. :-)

I believe they plow as soon as they can. There is probably some plowing as the snow is falling. If leaving the next morning, I'd wait until the ice on the road melts. I like to hang back and let others go first.

Dave and Gary, thank you. I've never been in winter and my ideal plan would be to drive in right after the storm to see and photograph some snow on the ground and elsewhere, but to avoid having to mess with the chains. I do have chains and would be carrying them but hate the idea of messing with them. I don't use them on any regular basis. I was under the impression driving 140 would keep you pretty even with the valley floor at about 4,000 ft? Driving up from SoCal I would expect to get there in the afternoon. I would overnight either in the park or maybe El Portal?

140 is snow free most of the year. You shouldn't have a problem there. I assume you're taking 41 from Fresno, then 49 from Oakhurst, then 140 from Mariposa. That should be free of snow except for one, or two, big storms a year. You could also spend the night in Mariposa. Lots of nice hotels, places to eat, and some nice shops.

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Dave
140 is snow free most of the year. You shouldn't have a problem there. I assume you're taking 41 from Fresno, then 49 from Oakhurst, then 140 from Mariposa. That should be free of snow except for one, or two, big storms a year. You could also spend the night in Mariposa. Lots of nice hotels, places to eat, and some nice shops.

Well, in the fall it's just 99 to 41 to the south entrance. But definitely not the winter route. My plan was to take 99 to Merced and then 140 east. I know it's longer I just figured it would quite possibly be a chain free drive all the way in and out by staying below 4000 feet. I think Oakhurst is already almost 6000 is it not?

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JohnC
Well, in the fall it's just 99 to 41 to the south entrance. But definitely not the winter route. My plan was to take 99 to Merced and then 140 east. I know it's longer I just figured it would quite possibly be a chain free drive all the way in and out by staying below 4000 feet. I think Oakhurst is already almost 6000 is it not?

From Fresno to Mariposa is about the same distance either way. The drive along 99 from Fresno to Merced is boring, ugly, and messy. There is one highspot on the way to Oakhurst, but that's not much over 3000ft. It gets snow once, maybe twice, a year. Oakhurst itself is around 2300ft. 99 to 41 to 49 would keep you below 3000ft all the way.

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Dave

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JohnC
Well, in the fall it's just 99 to 41 to the south entrance. But definitely not the winter route. My plan was to take 99 to Merced and then 140 east. I know it's longer I just figured it would quite possibly be a chain free drive all the way in and out by staying below 4000 feet. I think Oakhurst is already almost 6000 is it not?

From Fresno to Mariposa is about the same distance either way. The drive along 99 from Fresno to Merced is boring, ugly, and messy. There is one highspot on the way to Oakhurst, but that's not much over 3000ft. It gets snow once, maybe twice, a year. Oakhurst itself is around 2300ft. 99 to 41 to 49 would keep you below 3000ft all the way.

I didn't realize Oakhurst was that low. I guess it climbs quite a bit to the entrance to the park. I've driven 49 between Oakhurst and Miraposa before and know the drive is much nicer but don't know about winter road conditions or elevation and how that could affect snow. You think 49 could be as chain free as 140 from Merced?

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JohnC
I didn't realize Oakhurst was that low. I guess it climbs quite a bit to the entrance to the park. I've driven 49 between Oakhurst and Miraposa before and know the drive is much nicer but don't know about winter road conditions or elevation and how that could affect snow. You think 49 could be as chain free as 140 from Merced?

Without a doubt. 49 rarely gets snow. It would have to be a pretty big storm for it to reach down that low. If the storm was that big, you'd hear about it on the news. Just check the weather before you leave home. Just go to Weather Underground and plug in Zip Code 95338 then look at the extended forcast. They're pretty reliable.

Thank you too all who have provided winter time info. I didn't realize that 49 from Oakhurst to Mariposa was such low elevation. For sure I will go that way. Chains will defintely be with me I just hate the thought of having to use them. :-) I've always wanted to get to the park for some nice winter shots but never really had a good plan. I still don't have any great plan other than to try and drive up the day after a storm ends if I can.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/21/2013 11:53AM by JohnC.

Hopefully the park will be open by the time you want to come. This could drag on for some time.

Anyway..... the best shots of Yosemite I've seen were just before, or just after, a storm. I have a picture, somewhere, of a cloud slamming into Half Dome.

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Dave
Hopefully the park will be open by the time you want to come. This could drag on for some time.

Anyway..... the best shots of Yosemite I've seen were just before, or just after, a storm. I have a picture, somewhere, of a cloud slamming into Half Dome.

I have no doubt it will be open in the next 30 days or so. Probably well before any serious winter storms hit. I feel bad for the people who made lifetime vaction trips and missed out. Me, I'm just 6 hours away and have already been a few times. Now I'm just getting picky about trying to see the different seasons in the park before I run out of seasons. :-) I definitely like Ansels Adams "Clearing Storm" photo. I also like a lot of what Michael Frye currently does in Yosemite.

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JohnC

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Dave
Hopefully the park will be open by the time you want to come. This could drag on for some time.

Anyway..... the best shots of Yosemite I've seen were just before, or just after, a storm. I have a picture, somewhere, of a cloud slamming into Half Dome.

I have no doubt it will be open in the next 30 days or so. Probably well before any serious winter storms hit. I feel bad for the people who made lifetime vaction trips and missed out. Me, I'm just 6 hours away and have already been a few times. Now I'm just getting picky about trying to see the different seasons in the park before I run out of seasons. :-) I definitely like Ansels Adams "Clearing Storm" photo. I also like a lot of what Michael Frye currently does in Yosemite.

If you really want great winter pictures, as Dave said, you need to be there before the storm comes and when it is clearing to get the best pictures. If you get there after the storm has cleared than you might miss the most dramatic pictures. Sometimes, if you wait to go until the day after the storm, the clouds might have cleared and the snow melted. I can't tell you how much time my husband has spent waiting for the perfect storm to come through just to get the picture he had imagined. One thing you have to decide is that do you want to see the seasons or do you want to experience them.

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parklover

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JohnC

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Dave
Hopefully the park will be open by the time you want to come. This could drag on for some time.

Anyway..... the best shots of Yosemite I've seen were just before, or just after, a storm. I have a picture, somewhere, of a cloud slamming into Half Dome.

I have no doubt it will be open in the next 30 days or so. Probably well before any serious winter storms hit. I feel bad for the people who made lifetime vaction trips and missed out. Me, I'm just 6 hours away and have already been a few times. Now I'm just getting picky about trying to see the different seasons in the park before I run out of seasons. :-) I definitely like Ansels Adams "Clearing Storm" photo. I also like a lot of what Michael Frye currently does in Yosemite.

If you really want great winter pictures, as Dave said, you need to be there before the storm comes and when it is clearing to get the best pictures. If you get there after the storm has cleared than you might miss the most dramatic pictures. Sometimes, if you wait to go until the day after the storm, the clouds might have cleared and the snow melted. I can't tell you how much time my husband has spent waiting for the perfect storm to come through just to get the picture he had imagined. One thing you have to decide is that do you want to see the seasons or do you want to experience them.

Clearing storms (or pending storms) can be very dramatic and I would obviously like to capture them. However my trip isn't only about that one shot. Even when you know a storm is coming, you can't always be in the right place at the right time. The park is absolutely gorgeous in the winter with snow on the ground everywhere. I want those shot as well and they are much more readiy found immediately after a storm. I'd love to be there at the right time and place during a storm, but I need to increase my odds of still getting some nice shots in case I can't hit the jackpot. Obviously the size of the storm matters as well which is why I know it isn't easy figuring out when to go. If I can get there before, during and after I would love to. I guess I also need to become a wetherman in my spare time. :-)

I'll add a few remarks about driving around Yosemite in the winter.

First, it's been my experience that Yosemite road crews don't plow the roads at night. They usually just let the snow accumulate and close the roads if necessary.

They'll start plowing at daybreak and continue throughout the day. Outside of the park, Caltrans will plow through the night if necessary.

Also in regards to chain requirements, in California any vehicle with sufficient tread on their "M+S rated" all-season tires (which are usually the stock tires for most vehicles outside of sports cars) are permitted to drive without chains in R0 and also R1 conditions.

Basically, Caltrans consider "M+S" (mud + snow) rated tires to be "snow tires". So in reality when Caltrans or the Park Service has the R1 Chain requirements posted, probably 90% of the vehicles DON'T need to put on chains.

Under R2 chain restrictions, all vehicles except four-wheel drive (4WD) and all-wheel drive (AWD) with snow "M+S rated" tires will need to put on chains. Under R3, all vehicles need to put on chains.

It's been my experience that — except during or after the biggest snow storms — the roads within Yosemite Valley will NOT have a higher restriction than R1. But occasionally after a very big snow dump overnight, they will have R2 chain restrictions on the Yosemite Valley roads for the first part of the morning (but it's usually back to R1 or R0 by 10:00 AM).

I've never seen the Yosemite Valley roads have R3 restrictions though, so if you can get of hold (maybe rent) a 4WD or AWD vehicle with all-season tires, you won't have to worry about putting on chains anytime during winter if you confine your driving to Yosemite Valley and Hwy 140.

(Note though, regardless if your vehicle has 4WD, AWD (or not), EVERY vehicle entering the park during winter must have snow chains (or snow cables) that fit their vehicles. No exceptions.)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/03/2013 04:44PM by plawrence.

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JohnC
I think Oakhurst is already almost 6000 is it not?

Not even close. It's around 2000'.

http://www.mappingsupport.com/p/gmap4.php?ll=37.330857,-119.654159&z=15&t=t4

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JohnC
Dave and Gary, thank you. I've never been in winter and my ideal plan would be to drive in right after the storm to see and photograph some snow on the ground and elsewhere, but to avoid having to mess with the chains. I do have chains and would be carrying them but hate the idea of messing with them. I don't use them on any regular basis. I was under the impression driving 140 would keep you pretty even with the valley floor at about 4,000 ft? Driving up from SoCal I would expect to get there in the afternoon. I would overnight either in the park or maybe El Portal?

John, nothing beats being right there in the valley the morning after (or during) a snowstorm, so if you can figure out a way to get in just before the storm and stay it's worth it. The campground gets a bit cold, so in Jan-Feb I like to stay at the Lodge (they have some really good prices at times if you stay away from the holidays and weekends, and wait until late in the year to make the reservation). Of course the tricky part is predicting the snow, but if you miss, it's still not so bad waking up in the valley and heading out for a walk at daybreak. For photos, you can't beat the just-fallen snow, and in the valley much of it may melt before 10AM. Not that there isn't still a lot to see and photograph, but the earlier the better. I've stayed in Oakhurst and Mariposa, and driven in early, but I still remember how great it was the first time waking up at the Lodge after a snowy night and heading out with my camera at dawn...it's absolutely amazing. For anything later in the year, you almost have to be right there (campground or lodging) because it seldom lasts long, and by 8 or 9AM it's a different world.

At worst, you could get "stuck" in the valley and have to either put on your chains, or stay a bit longer, which is pretty much a win-win situation...8^)

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Gary
Yosemite Photo Galleries: http://www.pbase.com/roberthouse/yo

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Sierrafan

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JohnC
Dave and Gary, thank you. I've never been in winter and my ideal plan would be to drive in right after the storm to see and photograph some snow on the ground and elsewhere, but to avoid having to mess with the chains. I do have chains and would be carrying them but hate the idea of messing with them. I don't use them on any regular basis. I was under the impression driving 140 would keep you pretty even with the valley floor at about 4,000 ft? Driving up from SoCal I would expect to get there in the afternoon. I would overnight either in the park or maybe El Portal?

John, nothing beats being right there in the valley the morning after (or during) a snowstorm, so if you can figure out a way to get in just before the storm and stay it's worth it. The campground gets a bit cold, so in Jan-Feb I like to stay at the Lodge (they have some really good prices at times if you stay away from the holidays and weekends, and wait until late in the year to make the reservation). Of course the tricky part is predicting the snow, but if you miss, it's still not so bad waking up in the valley and heading out for a walk at daybreak. For photos, you can't beat the just-fallen snow, and in the valley much of it may melt before 10AM. Not that there isn't still a lot to see and photograph, but the earlier the better. I've stayed in Oakhurst and Mariposa, and driven in early, but I still remember how great it was the first time waking up at the Lodge after a snowy night and heading out with my camera at dawn...it's absolutely amazing. For anything later in the year, you almost have to be right there (campground or lodging) because it seldom lasts long, and by 8 or 9AM it's a different world.

At worst, you could get "stuck" in the valley and have to either put on your chains, or stay a bit longer, which is pretty much a win-win situation...8^)

Thanks. You kind of described what I would like to do. Either stay in the valley or at worst El Portal. And I defintely would be making last minute plans as I am attempting to let the weather dictate my plans. Now if the weather can cooperate and fall mid week with no holidays I like my chances of making something work. :-)

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JohnC

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Dave

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JohnC
Funny, they didn't automatically cancel my reservation, they automatically charged me for it. My previous experinces dealing with DNC on the phone have been less than enjoyable. I'll just call my CC company and let them deal with it.

Maybe they are just being hopeful this will be over by then.

Well, I am too. But realistically it's too late for this to get resolved overnight. It will now drag on for a while. Whatever happens will take a few days to reverse course and open back up. That won't happen before Sunday. When they figure it all out I'll decide my next step. I had already planned a winter trip so the fall trip will likely just get cancelled on my part.

Which leads to a question. Does anybody know how quickly the roads are plowed in the valley after a snow storm? Can you drive without chains the next day? How about if you are coming in from 140? Thanks for any winter tips you can provide. :-)

JohnC, most of the time the snow on valley roads melts during the day (there are of course, exceptions depending on the storm amounts and temps). Roads are plowed fairly quickly, but with an incoming storm you have to rely on your own common sense. However, from the 140 gate to the valley floor has quite an increase in altitude, and you may have to put chains on once you get inside, particularly in the morning. There are spots along the road into the valley that seldom get sun and will be icy regardless of plowing, so even if most of the road is clear, watch out for these areas and go slowly and very carefully over them if you don't have chains on. The Lodge area gets plowed pretty quickly, but as you get around Curry and beyond, the need for chains will be more likely.

We go to the valley every winter for a few days, and have seldom needed to use chains in the valley. But I've also high-tailed it out early on the last day of a visit to beat an approaching storm. Usually 140 is a pretty good bet for getting out with an incoming storm, but there are the summits on 140 and 49, where you could end up having to chain up anyway. You absolutely DO need to have chains or cables with you though, and even if you plan on having someone else put them on, it's wisest to do a 'dry run' before the trip and put them on yourself, check the fit, pack some gloves and plastic (ground cover) etc. with them, so if you have to stop in some awkward place you're not having to learn how to do it. I once had to stop right in the road near the Midpines summit, and was glad I'd just put the chains on the day before and was ready for a quick install.

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Gary
Yosemite Photo Galleries: http://www.pbase.com/roberthouse/yo

I can't help but wonder what would have happend if that situation had occured while I was over your side of the pond earlier this year?

Descending down to Yosemite Valley after 6 days in the wilderness, to find it deserted would probably have scared the crap out of me. Did the world end while I was hiking?! lol

Seems like a horrible situation for all concerned. I feel for all the people who are not getting paid, and those who have had holidays ruined.

I wish I knew more about politics to understand the situation. I find it odd that there is a guy in charge (Obama) except, he is not in charge?

Steve

Steve, well put, you would have thought you were walking into the "Twilight Zone". LOL.

I for one make it a point NOT to follow politics & I avoid the conversations. Our National Parks, to me, are the ultimate escape from the negativity of the world, i.e.including politics. Unfortunately it has "spread" into our world, temporarily. :-)

TechieSteve. Contrary to the beliefs of some, the President does not have ultimate power in the US and the US is governed by three branches, one of which is the Executive branch - the President and Vice President. I am not good at explaining US democratic setup but, if you are interested, this is a site that my son once showed me. It is for 9-12 graders.

http://bensguide.gpo.gov/9-12/government/branches.html

Note that the "tyrannous concentration of power" part seems to be in limbo at present.

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Old Dude

There are those who think that if you just open the parks everything will be okay with sunshine and good times for all (for those who don't care about anything else on the list)

*insert head back in sand*

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The body betrays and the weather conspires, hopefully, not on the same day.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 10/06/2013 01:05PM by Bee.

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Ohnivy-Drak
"Meanwhile, a House bill that would have reopened national parks was blocked by Democrats who said they refused to let Republicans pick and choose what entities would be spared the budget standoff."

Of course that should not have been voted for. It is not good policy to negociate with terrorists. The Regressives could not care less about any National Park, unless they could profit from it somehow. They only did that to make the Democrats look bad. Not many fell for their dishonest tactic.