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Re: camping limits:confused smiley

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camping limits:confused smiley
February 15, 2014 08:38AM
YELLLLLLP! good luck on your lottery win to all who got a site. as one who wasn't so lucky and with 3 separate wp's including half dome, 21 days to spend on trails - what are my legal alternatives for camping in the valley for 4 days previous to my first walk??
avatar Re: camping limits:confused smiley
February 15, 2014 08:57AM
Much depends on which days of the week you need a site. On a Friday afternoon or all day Saturday you probebly won't have any luck. Sunday later in the day and most weekdays you have a better shot. Hang out at the campground reservation office and hope for no-shows.

Camp 4 is a FCFS walkup campground and if you are in line early in the AM you have a chance. The day before you use your wilderness permit you can stay at the backpackers gampground.

Other more experienced vally floor campers will have better info.



Old Dude
avatar Re: camping limits:confused smiley
February 15, 2014 09:04AM
Quote
pines
YELLLLLLP! good luck on your lottery win to all who got a site. as one who wasn't so lucky and with 3 separate wp's including half dome, 21 days to spend on trails - what are my legal alternatives for camping in the valley for 4 days previous to my first walk??

If you've got a wilderness permit, then it's a no-brainer to stay at a backpackers' campground the night before your first day. No reservations, and even if it's crowded you can simply pile into an already occupied site. $5/night per person. So if you have a group then it's more than just $5.

I think technically if you arrive by bus/foot/motorcycle or are dropped off somehow, you are allowed to stay at a backpackers campground for one night. It's not well published, but it's in the official regulations (Superintendent's Compendium). You might even be able to combine this with one night before your backpacking trip.

Other than that - Camp 4 is your best option. It's possible to try and snag a campsite at the valley campground office, but those are typically only for a day.
Re: camping limits:confused smiley
February 16, 2014 08:07AM
thanks all for ideas and support, the initial feelings of despair have ebbed slowly away~unlike the floods down the coast in somerset~ I arrive on a Thursday pm by bus in the middle of june so camp 4 and queuing for a campground cancellation are unfortunately out. I do however like the suggestion of the 'Superintendent's Compendium' 'extra' day ay the backpacker site. unfortunately I don't have the nerve to make it four nights, but it is another option. thanks again, all.sleeping in tent
avatar Re: camping limits:confused smiley
February 16, 2014 09:00AM
Quote
pines
thanks all for ideas and support, the initial feelings of despair have ebbed slowly away~unlike the floods down the coast in somerset~ I arrive on a Thursday pm by bus in the middle of june so camp 4 and queuing for a campground cancellation are unfortunately out. I do however like the suggestion of the 'Superintendent's Compendium' 'extra' day ay the backpacker site. unfortunately I don't have the nerve to make it four nights, but it is another option. thanks again, all.sleeping in tent

Here's the rule:

Quote

• Backpacker camps are intended for use by visitors in possession of an overnight
Wilderness Permit or for visitors arriving in the park by foot, bicycle, or bus. Wilderness
permit holders may stay in a backpacker camp the night prior to departure and the night
after returning from each overnight Wilderness trip.
• Users arriving in the park by foot, bicycle, or bus may stay in each backpacker camp for a
limit of one night.

It used to be ambiguous about how long someone could stay if arriving by bus.
Re: camping limits:confused smiley
February 15, 2014 12:05PM
Quote
pines
YELLLLLLP! good luck on your lottery win to all who got a site. as one who wasn't so lucky and with 3 separate wp's including half dome, 21 days to spend on trails - what are my legal alternatives for camping in the valley for 4 days previous to my first walk??

If I understand your question correctly you are wondering how many days can you camp legally in the Valley, regardless of how many days you camp out of the Valley? From May 1 to Sept. 15 there is a 7 day limit in the Valley and Wawona, and a total camping limit of 14 days anywhere in Yosemite. But I think this only applies to developed campgrounds (not sure).

http://www.nps.gov/yose/planyourvisit/campregs.htm
avatar Re: camping limits:confused smiley
February 15, 2014 12:39PM
Quote
mtn man
Quote
pines
YELLLLLLP! good luck on your lottery win to all who got a site. as one who wasn't so lucky and with 3 separate wp's including half dome, 21 days to spend on trails - what are my legal alternatives for camping in the valley for 4 days previous to my first walk??

If I understand your question correctly you are wondering how many days can you camp legally in the Valley, regardless of how many days you camp out of the Valley? From May 1 to Sept. 15 there is a 7 day limit in the Valley and Wawona, and a total camping limit of 14 days anywhere in Yosemite. But I think this only applies to developed campgrounds (not sure).

http://www.nps.gov/yose/planyourvisit/campregs.htm

The detailed regs are here:

http://www.nps.gov/yose/parkmgmt/upload/compendium.pdf

It says 30 days camping per calendar year and 14 days between May 1-Sept 15 inclusive. Then it goes on to describe "Camping – Non-Wilderness" and "Camping – Wilderness". So theoretically it's all covered. However, I don't think they really have much means to enforce it, unless they have someone (or equipment) scour reservations for the same names. And of course what can they do if a camper isn't named on the reservation or permit?
Re: camping limits:confused smiley
February 16, 2014 10:12AM
Quote
pines

It says 30 days camping per calendar year and 14 days between May 1-Sept 15 inclusive. Then it goes on to describe "Camping – Non-Wilderness" and "Camping – Wilderness". So theoretically it's all covered. However, I don't think they really have much means to enforce it, unless they have someone (or equipment) scour reservations for the same names. And of course what can they do if a camper isn't named on the reservation or permit?
Regarding the 7 day limit in the Valley, (May1st - Sept.16th) the only method of enforcement, at least for now, is by way of the reservation system. After the 7th day, your recreation.gov account is locked out.(Valley reservations only). And as you mentioned, if you're visiting on someone else's reservation, who would know?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/16/2014 10:16AM by troutwild.
avatar Re: camping limits:confused smiley
February 16, 2014 06:21PM
Quote
troutwild
Quote
pines

It says 30 days camping per calendar year and 14 days between May 1-Sept 15 inclusive. Then it goes on to describe "Camping – Non-Wilderness" and "Camping – Wilderness". So theoretically it's all covered. However, I don't think they really have much means to enforce it, unless they have someone (or equipment) scour reservations for the same names. And of course what can they do if a camper isn't named on the reservation or permit?
Regarding the 7 day limit in the Valley, (May1st - Sept.16th) the only method of enforcement, at least for now, is by way of the reservation system. After the 7th day, your recreation.gov account is locked out.(Valley reservations only). And as you mentioned, if you're visiting on someone else's reservation, who would know?

Just wondering how they handle the climbers who hang around Camp 4 for months.......
avatar Re: camping limits:confused smiley
February 16, 2014 08:34PM
Quote
y_p_w
Just wondering how they handle the climbers who hang around Camp 4 for months.......

The Los Angeles Times had an article a few years back on the problems rangers are having with such climbers.
avatar Re: camping limits:confused smiley
February 16, 2014 09:55PM
Quote
eeek
Quote
y_p_w
Just wondering how they handle the climbers who hang around Camp 4 for months.......

The Los Angeles Times had an article a few years back on the problems rangers are having with such climbers.

Found it:

Edged out
They love the granite but hate the rules. Yosemite's climbers are locked in a contest of wills with park rangers charged with keeping order. Are the wall rats losing their grip?
http://articles.latimes.com/2005/jul/19/news/os-climb19

And a discussion thereof:

Yosemite/Camp 4 article in the LA Times
http://www.supertopo.com/climbing/thread.php?topic_id=83750&tn=0&mr=0

I sort of get that most of these big wall climbers aren't rich. However, there is a subset that has done pretty well since they have day jobs. I remember hearing about Hans Florine. Apparently he runs his own business and could even afford to buy a house at Yosemite West.

http://hansflorine.com/rentals/details.htm
http://www.hansbasecamp.com
avatar Re: camping limits:confused smiley
February 17, 2014 05:03PM
Some of them got rich many years ago when they led an "unauthorized" recovery operation for a Lockheed filled with dope that went down in a lake . Rangers started to wonder what was going on when one of the "dirtbags" showed up with a fancy new car. Who can name the lake? Personally, the Valley wouldn't be the same without the "dirtbags" at Sunnyside.
avatar Re: camping limits:confused smiley
February 17, 2014 05:47PM
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boomtown

Who can name the lake?

Lower Merced Pass Lake

.
avatar Re: camping limits:confused smiley
February 18, 2014 11:08AM
Quote
plawrence
Quote
boomtown

Who can name the lake?

Lower Merced Pass Lake

.

Ding! Ding! Ding! ....we have a winner! Lockheed Lodestar lost in Lower Merced Pass Lake. There is a great account of that story in the book "Death In Yosemite". One of my favorite books about Yosemite. I highly recommend it.
avatar Re: camping limits:confused smiley
February 20, 2014 03:06PM
Quote
boomtown
Quote
plawrence
Quote
boomtown

Who can name the lake?

Lower Merced Pass Lake

.

Ding! Ding! Ding! ....we have a winner! Lockheed Lodestar lost in Lower Merced Pass Lake. There is a great account of that story in the book "Death In Yosemite". One of my favorite books about Yosemite. I highly recommend it.

There are a lot of stories.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/stevedunleavy/5967180349/
http://cascadeclimbers.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/462646/2

The latter has an interesting claim that initially about 1000 pounds of fuel-soaked pot was stashed in the jail and that occasionally some of it would go missing courtesy of a park ranger.
Re: camping limits:confused smiley
February 17, 2014 05:48PM
Ha!....Lower Merced Pass Lake. Quite a story.
avatar Re: camping limits:confused smiley
February 17, 2014 06:45PM
Camp 4 has and edge and diversity in large part because of the climbers. Staying there is far more interesting than any of the other campgrounds in the valley with their RVs etc.

I hope the climbers and rangers can come to an agreement that doesn't involve too much change.
Re: camping limits:confused smiley
February 18, 2014 11:34AM
Months?? yikes: and here's me worrying about a couple of days. 'EEEK' is this 'months at C4' cheating the system? or am I being an old woman again? thanks again.wink
avatar Re: camping limits:confused smiley
February 18, 2014 12:39PM
Quote
pines
Months?? yikes: and here's me worrying about a couple of days. 'EEEK' is this 'months at C4' cheating the system? or am I being an old woman again? thanks again.wink

The deal is that Camp 4 sort of started as an outlaw campground in the first place. It was where the campers congregated and often did things that could get them in trouble with NPS. Often they were selling equipment there without a license. I'm not just talking guys selling used equipment, but people selling new equipment that they made themselves. Yvon Chouinard (founder of Black Diamond and Patagonia) got his start selling climbing equipment there. It eventually became an official campground, but NPS changed its name even though the climbing community always called it "Camp 4".

Although most of the active climbers who might stay at Camp 4 for months weren't even alive when it was created, they often think of Camp 4 as their place. Many believe that they should have an exception to the camping limits. They're often not terribly rich and most of their net worth is probably in the form of a run down car and their climbing equipment. Many seem to have an air of entitlement.
Re: camping limits:confused smiley
February 20, 2014 11:25AM
so basically they don't give a hoot? rhetorically speaking ~ 'if they don't, why should everyone else'Confused
avatar Re: camping limits:confused smiley
February 20, 2014 11:44AM
Quote
pines

'if they don't, why should everyone else'Confused

Because they're special (at least in their self-absorbed eyes), so the rules others have to follow shouldn't apply to them.

.
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