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Re: Park stores discontinuing "Yosemite National Park" souvenirs in TM dispute

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avatar Park stores discontinuing "Yosemite National Park" souvenirs in TM dispute
February 28, 2016 03:15PM
http://www.sfgate.com/news/article/It-s-bye-bye-to-Yosemite-National-Park-on-6858366.php

So they will only say "Yosemite" since Delaware North seemed to have trademarked the name "Yosemite National Park" for use on souvenirs such as T-shirts.

https://trademarks.justia.com/763/65/yosemite-national-park-76365484.html
Re: Park stores discontinuing "Yosemite National Park" souvenirs in TM dispute
February 28, 2016 03:19PM
My son and husband wanted to see if they could get Go climb a Rock t-shirts this morning. DNC's internet gift store website has been closed and when I directly called The Mountain Shop the phone rang and rang and then I got a message to enter a access code. When we were there in December we didn't think that this all was going to happen and in hindsight should have bought them and not wait until our next trip.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/28/2016 03:20PM by parklover.
avatar Re: Park stores discontinuing "Yosemite National Park" souvenirs in TM dispute
February 28, 2016 03:23PM
Quote
parklover
My son and husband wanted to see if they could get Go climb a Rock t-shirts this morning. DNC's internet gift store website has been closed and when I directly called The Mountain Shop the phone rang and rang and then I got a message to enter a access code. When we were there in December we didn't think that this all was going to happen and in hindsight should have bought them and not wait until our next trip.

The thing about "Go Climb a Rock" is that it was really just a slogan and not a place name. I know it's an iconic phrase, but it's one where a far better rationale can be made that Delaware North owns it just like they own the logo that YP&CC registered in the 80s.

I'm not quite sure about "The Ahwahnee" though. I think a good case could be made that it should have transferred to NPS along with the buildings. The trademarks registered around 2002 are really suspect to me.
Re: Park stores discontinuing "Yosemite National Park" souvenirs in TM dispute
February 28, 2016 03:40PM
I completely agree with you that it is just a slogan and it is nothing like owning the name The Ahwahnee or Curry Village, etc. It just happens that they had wanted new t-shirts and we didn't get them in December and we had to cancel our trip in Jan. because of illness. It is like "Darn, we should have thought that we might not be able to buy them once DNC leaves." Interestingly, we have t-shirts from Zion NP that has " Go hike a canyon" on the back and I can't find a trademark symbol anywhere on it. I am not saying that I equate the loss of being able to get the t-shirt as any way near how horrible the trademarking of the iconic names is.

The Ahwahnee, Curry Village, Wawona Hotel, Badger Pass are names that are on the historic register and I can't see how DNC was able to trademark those in in the first place.

I found this interesting story this morning: http://www.outsideonline.com/2057346/california-lawmakers-no-more-trademarking-public-land
avatar Re: Park stores discontinuing "Yosemite National Park" souvenirs in TM dispute
February 28, 2016 04:03PM
Quote
parklover
The Ahwahnee, Curry Village, Wawona Hotel, Badger Pass are names that are on the historic register and I can't see how DNC was able to trademark those in in the first place.

They didn't trademark "The Ahwahnee". That was trademarked by YP&CC. However, the whole deal where the concession was sold to the National Parks Foundation was severely messed up when they didn't consider trademarks and intellectual property. The whole deal was engineered by Secretary of the Interior Manual Lujan at a time when he was getting flack for being a flunky for mining and oil interests. The deal (which included a donation of the buildings) to NPS was supposed to be his legacy. However, that they didn't do their due diligence and notice that YP&CC had registered several trademarks frankly hurts that legacy. They could have made sure that all trademarks owned by the concessionaire were transferred to NPS and that any new contract specify that any names associated with the business belonged to NPS.

All future NPS concession contracts are going to specify that any names used in the business will belong to NPS at the end of the contract.
Re: Park stores discontinuing "Yosemite National Park" souvenirs in TM dispute
February 28, 2016 04:12PM
Unfortunately, the NPS and the government probably didn't even think about that back then which doesn't surprise me since that is way the government tends to work at times. Well hindsight is better than foresight. However, when Xanterra tried to do this several years ago at the Grand Canyon, that should have been a wake up call to see what other concessionaires were doing this.
avatar Re: Park stores discontinuing "Yosemite National Park" souvenirs in TM dispute
February 28, 2016 05:37PM
Quote
parklover
Unfortunately, the NPS and the government probably didn't even think about that back then which doesn't surprise me since that is way the government tends to work at times. Well hindsight is better than foresight. However, when Xanterra tried to do this several years ago at the Grand Canyon, that should have been a wake up call to see what other concessionaires were doing this.

Xanterra's attempt to register the trademarks was in Oct 2014, at the point when the contracts were about to expire in a year. They abandoned the registration after NPS found out and objected. I think they got most of their contracts extended short term, but ironically enough, Delaware North is now under contract to run Yavapai Lodge.

https://trademarks.justia.com/864/31/yavapai-86431187.html

NPS was actually paying more attention to attempts to register trademarks after Delaware North sprung their gotcha back in 2014 around the time the Yosemite prospectus was about to be released. It wasn't when NPS requested a list of assets back around 2011 to prepare for a prospectus. That was the wakeup call that sprung NPS into action when Xanterra tried it.

The strange thing is that Aramark is now officially on the record that these names belong to the public. However, they did attempt to register one Yosemite trademark ahead of taking over the concession until NPS found out.
Re: Park stores discontinuing "Yosemite National Park" souvenirs in TM dispute
February 28, 2016 09:40PM
I still don't understand why DNC got one lodge at Grand Canyon. I would have to do some research in the reasoning behind that. I did read about Aramark attempt to register that one trademark and they were smart to back down when this debacle started with DNC and the trademarks. Use of names and images of parks should only be allowed by a company during the time that they have the contract and the NPS and the government need to get control of this because it is happening in other parks too.
avatar Re: Park stores discontinuing "Yosemite National Park" souvenirs in TM dispute
February 28, 2016 10:20PM
Quote
parklover
I still don't understand why DNC got one lodge at Grand Canyon. I would have to do some research in the reasoning behind that. I did read about Aramark attempt to register that one trademark and they were smart to back down when this debacle started with DNC and the trademarks. Use of names and images of parks should only be allowed by a company during the time that they have the contract and the NPS and the government need to get control of this because it is happening in other parks too.

The concessions at several national parks are more or less piecemeal for whatever reason. Yosemite is rather unique. I know at Yellowstone the lodging and cafeteria are separate contracts from the stores and other dining.

Xanterra actually sued NPS claiming that the Yavapai Lodge and other concessions were arbitrarily "carved out" of the larger contract by NPS.

http://www.xanterra.com/Xanterra-sues-NPS-over-mismanagement-of-Grand-Canyon-Contracts
Re: Park stores discontinuing "Yosemite National Park" souvenirs in TM dispute
February 29, 2016 11:29AM
I remember when all of Yellowstone was TW Rec Services ( still have a reservation slip) then they were bought out by Xanterra who then had the whole park. I was there in 1995 when Xanterra bought out TWR. I can't remember the year ( would have to look at travel diary) that DNC took over the Yellowstone General Stores but we were there that summer. I remember asking someone in the general store near Old Faithful how they liked working for DNC and not Xanterra and they said they hated it. Grand Tetons is also a split park that has the GTLC that has the majority of things in the park. And then there is Signal Mountain Lodge and Marina that is now under Forever Resorts and some other concessionaires that run activities There is also Dornans but I am not sure if they are a official concessionaire of the park. My guess is that the NPS splits concessions between different companies to prevent a monopoly in a park. However The NPS forced The Curry Company and the Yosemite National Park company to merge in 1925 because they thought that limiting companies would be more financially beneficial so they question is is why they kept that mindset for Yosemite all of these years.
avatar Re: Park stores discontinuing "Yosemite National Park" souvenirs in TM dispute
March 01, 2016 12:11PM
Quote
parklover
I remember when all of Yellowstone was TW Rec Services ( still have a reservation slip) then they were bought out by Xanterra who then had the whole park. I was there in 1995 when Xanterra bought out TWR. I can't remember the year ( would have to look at travel diary) that DNC took over the Yellowstone General Stores but we were there that summer. I remember asking someone in the general store near Old Faithful how they liked working for DNC and not Xanterra and they said they hated it. Grand Tetons is also a split park that has the GTLC that has the majority of things in the park. And then there is Signal Mountain Lodge and Marina that is now under Forever Resorts and some other concessionaires that run activities There is also Dornans but I am not sure if they are a official concessionaire of the park. My guess is that the NPS splits concessions between different companies to prevent a monopoly in a park. However The NPS forced The Curry Company and the Yosemite National Park company to merge in 1925 because they thought that limiting companies would be more financially beneficial so they question is is why they kept that mindset for Yosemite all of these years.

I visited Yellowstone back in 1983 with relatives. I don't really remember that much about the concessions.
Re: Park stores discontinuing "Yosemite National Park" souvenirs in TM dispute
March 01, 2016 12:59PM
Quote
y_p_w
Quote
parklover
I remember when all of Yellowstone was TW Rec Services ( still have a reservation slip) then they were bought out by Xanterra who then had the whole park. I was there in 1995 when Xanterra bought out TWR. I can't remember the year ( would have to look at travel diary) that DNC took over the Yellowstone General Stores but we were there that summer. I remember asking someone in the general store near Old Faithful how they liked working for DNC and not Xanterra and they said they hated it. Grand Tetons is also a split park that has the GTLC that has the majority of things in the park. And then there is Signal Mountain Lodge and Marina that is now under Forever Resorts and some other concessionaires that run activities There is also Dornans but I am not sure if they are a official concessionaire of the park. My guess is that the NPS splits concessions between different companies to prevent a monopoly in a park. However The NPS forced The Curry Company and the Yosemite National Park company to merge in 1925 because they thought that limiting companies would be more financially beneficial so they question is is why they kept that mindset for Yosemite all of these years.

I visited Yellowstone back in 1983 with relatives. I don't really remember that much about the concessions.

I have two big folders with receipts from trips so I know where we stayed, what we did and how much things cost. It is sort of like a travel diary in a way. The first time we went to Sequioa it was also TWR. I have a friend who is in her 90's and she did the same thing and once she showed me a receipt for a stay at the Ahwahnee where the rooms were $25/night.
avatar Re: Park stores discontinuing "Yosemite National Park" souvenirs in TM dispute
February 28, 2016 11:24PM
Quote
parklover
I still don't understand why DNC got one lodge at Grand Canyon. I would have to do some research in the reasoning behind that. I did read about Aramark attempt to register that one trademark and they were smart to back down when this debacle started with DNC and the trademarks. Use of names and images of parks should only be allowed by a company during the time that they have the contract and the NPS and the government need to get control of this because it is happening in other parks too.

The National Park Service needs to trademark the names and then license the trademarked names to the concessionaires. That's how other business do it. In no way, does Centerplate (the concessionaire for AT&T Park (home of the SF Giants) and Levi's Stadium (home of the 49ers)) own ANY trademark associated with the Giants or 49ers. The Giants and 49ers own the trademarks and then permits Centerplate to uses them via a license (and fee).

.
Re: Park stores discontinuing "Yosemite National Park" souvenirs in TM dispute
February 29, 2016 11:29AM
Quote
plawrence
Quote
parklover
I still don't understand why DNC got one lodge at Grand Canyon. I would have to do some research in the reasoning behind that. I did read about Aramark attempt to register that one trademark and they were smart to back down when this debacle started with DNC and the trademarks. Use of names and images of parks should only be allowed by a company during the time that they have the contract and the NPS and the government need to get control of this because it is happening in other parks too.

The National Park Service needs to trademark the names and then license the trademarked names to the concessionaires. That's how other business do it. In no way, does Centerplate (the concessionaire for AT&T Park (home of the SF Giants) and Levi's Stadium (home of the 49ers)) own ANY trademark associated with the Giants or 49ers. The Giants and 49ers own the trademarks and then permits Centerplate to uses them via a license (and fee).

.

I agree. Something needs to be done to prevent this for happening again.
Re: Park stores discontinuing "Yosemite National Park" souvenirs in TM dispute
February 29, 2016 08:42AM
Being in Yosemite last weekend, we stopped in the Village store before going on a hike and noticed that souvenirs were 25% off. But there was quite a markup on items as compared to last year. My annual Half Dome pin cost $5.95 last year (too much for China crap but...) The 2016 edition is/was $8.95. Couldn't get myself to buy it and now regret that ($6.50 with discount...)

We did get the National Park Centennial T-shirts because we thought they may not be available after today and they do say Yosemite National Park on them. We also bought one small plate (retired, used) of the Ahwahnee china. (Delaware North bought the design when the company that made the china went out of business.)

The Yosemite Conservancy sells t-shirts that say Yosemite National Park on them and I supposed they will continue to be allowed to do so.

I was commenting that it would be funny, now that the new names have already been announced for lodging, if tomorrow, the names were completely different. Was Delaware North scrambling,trying to copyright the new names? Probably not, but sorta fun to think about that scenario.
avatar Re: Park stores discontinuing "Yosemite National Park" souvenirs in TM dispute
February 29, 2016 08:49AM
Quote
hikerchick395
The Yosemite Conservancy sells t-shirts that say Yosemite National Park on them and I supposed they will continue to be allowed to do so.

I was commenting that it would be funny, now that the new names have already been announced for lodging, if tomorrow, the names were completely different. Was Delaware North scrambling,trying to copyright the new names? Probably not, but sorta fun to think about that scenario.

They just being careful. I haven't heard of Delaware North suing anyone. If this was ever taken to court, I can't imagine any judge who wouldn't rule that "Yosemite National Park" is clearly in the public domain.
avatar Re: Park stores discontinuing "Yosemite National Park" souvenirs in TM dispute
February 29, 2016 09:28AM
Quote
hikerchick395
We also bought one small plate (retired, used) of the Ahwahnee china. (Delaware North bought the design when the company that made the china went out of business.)

I like the Ahwahnee china, and have a large set of it for special occasions, however, like many of you I'm sure, I'm not so enamored with the asking price of it at the Ahwahnee.
Years ago (perhaps 17 to 20 now as a guess), I befriended a lady over the phone (this was pre-internet) who worked in the factory outlet store of Sterling China (the longtime manufacturer of the Ahwahnee china).
I schmoozed with her, and despite the fact they did not as a rule sell the Ahwahnee china to the public, they did have a decent amount in their inventory (overruns from different manufacturing lots, and from different vintages, some with different markings on the bottom of the pieces). To make a short story long, she agreed to sell me a bunch of the Ahwahnee pieces (and I mean a BUNCH, like an 8-piece setting on much of it, plus platters, bowls and miscellaneous pieces and doo-dads), and for what amounted to cut-rate wholesale prices that I'd have paid for cheap, plain white unadorned china in their outlet store, a mere fraction of the Ahwahnee prices.
I've always been grateful to that lady for her help, and think about her every time I use it.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/29/2016 09:44AM by PineCone.
Re: Park stores discontinuing "Yosemite National Park" souvenirs in TM dispute
February 29, 2016 11:43AM
Lucky you. I always wish I had more.
Re: Park stores discontinuing "Yosemite National Park" souvenirs in TM dispute
February 29, 2016 11:39AM
Quote
hikerchick395
Being in Yosemite last weekend, we stopped in the Village store before going on a hike and noticed that souvenirs were 25% off. But there was quite a markup on items as compared to last year. My annual Half Dome pin cost $5.95 last year (too much for China crap but...) The 2016 edition is/was $8.95. Couldn't get myself to buy it and now regret that ($6.50 with discount...)

We did get the National Park Centennial T-shirts because we thought they may not be available after today and they do say Yosemite National Park on them. We also bought one small plate (retired, used) of the Ahwahnee china. (Delaware North bought the design when the company that made the china went out of business.)

The Yosemite Conservancy sells t-shirts that say Yosemite National Park on them and I supposed they will continue to be allowed to do so.

I was commenting that it would be funny, now that the new names have already been announced for lodging, if tomorrow, the names were completely different. Was Delaware North scrambling,trying to copyright the new names? Probably not, but sorta fun to think about that scenario.

I am glad that we already bought the National Park Centennial T-shirts from Yosemite last year but my son wears his so much he would like another one. The Centennial T-shirts are sold in the Yosemite Conservancy store so maybe they will still have them.

When we were in Zion last summer we bought a Centennial T-shirt that is different from the one we bought in Yosemite. Instead of saying National Parks of the West on the back is says Peaks, Plateaus & Canyons on the Colorado Plateau and has different parks. They also had Centennial baseball caps which I didn't see in Yosemite.

I really wish I had the forethought to buy more Ahwahnee china when we were there during the holidays. I only have a full place setting for two and some extra pieces. Which brings up an interesting point, will they still use them in the dining room?
The piece of china I bought was used, from the dining room. I guess we'll get a report from someone what shows up on the dining room tables after today.


Our centennial t-shirt has Half Dome on the front and only Yosemite National Park on it. I got a Find Your Park pin that says Death Valley National Park (got it there, of course) but, so far, those weren't available for Yosemite. We were in the Grand Canyon and Montezuma's Castle in December but I didn't buy the 2016 pins, because we were there in 2015.
Re: Park stores discontinuing "Yosemite National Park" souvenirs in TM dispute
March 01, 2016 10:21AM
Quote
hikerchick395
The piece of china I bought was used, from the dining room. I guess we'll get a report from someone what shows up on the dining room tables after today.


Our centennial t-shirt has Half Dome on the front and only Yosemite National Park on it. I got a Find Your Park pin that says Death Valley National Park (got it there, of course) but, so far, those weren't available for Yosemite. We were in the Grand Canyon and Montezuma's Castle in December but I didn't buy the 2016 pins, because we were there in 2015.

I didn't see that centennial t-shirt and hopefully they will still have it. The front of ours has the 21016 logo and underneath that National Park Service Centennial. On the back they say Find Your Park and then the two different things that I posted above. Each park name has a arrowhead symbol under it and I have thought of taking a fabric pen and checking off the ones we have been to.

Each park is supposed to also have a special centennial stamp for the park pass books but when we were in Yosemite at the beginning of Jan but the staff didn't know anything about it. I will look also for the centennial pins when we go for spring break. Last summer when we were in Zion they already had some centennial things like the t-shirt and baseball cap but Arches and Rocky Mts. didn't. Rocky Mt was celebrating their 100ths anniversary so there merchandise was centered on that. We are going back this summer so it will be interesting to see what they have. I am also keeping an eye out for when the Centennial coins come out from the US Mint.
avatar Re: Park stores discontinuing "Yosemite National Park" souvenirs in TM dispute
March 01, 2016 11:34AM
I wanted to buy one of the Yosemite 125th anniversary logo tee shirts, but by the time I realized there was such a thing (September), they were already sold out of them.
I had to settle for a coffee mug instead.sad smiley
Re: Park stores discontinuing "Yosemite National Park" souvenirs in TM dispute
March 01, 2016 11:49AM
We got my son one when they first came out. I was surprised that when we were there in December that they had so many 125th anniversary things still left. I thought they still had t-shirts then but I might be mistaken.
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