Re: If you see these, push them over, Yosemite National Park says

I have knocked over plenty of these. Glad to see this.

I disagree with knocking them over.

Other natitional park managers say NOT to knock them over.
Why, because you do not know who set them up.

According to a recent National Park Article, you are not supposed to knock over cairns. You may be doing more harm than good:

https://www.nps.gov/articles/rockcairns.htm

"Each park has a different way it maintains trails and cairns; however, they all have the same rule: If you come across a cairn, do not disturb it. Don’t knock it down or add to it. Follow the guidelines from the Leave No Trace Center for Outdoor Ethics to ensure future hikers can navigate the trail and prevent damage to the landscape:

Do not tamper with cairns – If an intentional cairn is tampered with or an unauthorized one is built, then future visitors may become disoriented or even lost.

Do not build unauthorized cairns – Moving rocks disturbs the soil and makes the area more prone to erosion. Disturbing rocks also disturbs fragile vegetation and micro ecosystems.
Do not add to existing cairns – Authorized cairns are carefully designed. Adding to the pile can actually cause them to collapse. Now that you know a little bit about cairns, check out these examples that you may come across on your next hike.
Now that you know a little about cairns, check out these examples that you may come across on your next hike."

Coolburn:

It is very easy to tell the difference between trail cairns and those built for recreational purposes.

Your quote specifically says do not build them. So it seems logical that if you find some that are obviously not marking trails they should be destroyed.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/27/2023 10:12AM by hotrod4x5.

It also says to not add to existing cairns. If you see a cairn with more than 3 or 4 rocks, it ain't regulation. Most official cairns are one to two rocks to show the trail, three (one to the side) to indicate a turn in the trail. What people are doing in Yosemite and other parks is simply another form of graffiti. Thank God it's easier to remove than graffiti.

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Check our our website: http://www.backpackthesierra.com/
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Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/27/2023 10:49AM by balzaccom.

Hot Rod and Balzaccon,

I realize this is a devisive issue, as there is an obvious disagreement between Yosemite and every other park, and reasonable minds can disagree, so please do not take this personally, but...

I don't build them, and I don't knock them over. (I don't destroy fire rings either).
Logic does not dictate that if you don't build them, then its OK to knock them down.
My logic is to follow the majority rule, not to substitue my judgment.
I also wouldn't rely on my judgment to distinguish between "recreational" and other trail cairns.
If someone else added rocks to an official cairn, it is still an official cairn. It in no way changes the original need for the cairn.
I do appreciate the examples, but I still think removal should be left to the rangers.

Coolburn, I have to correct you here. There is not disagreement between Yosemite and all the other National Parks. Zion, Capitol Reef, SEKI, US Virgin Islands, and many others also prohibit the placement of cairns, and encourage hikers to remove artificially "balanced rocks" when they find them

I do volunteer work for 3 national forests ( Eldorado, Sierra, and Stanislaus) and have been encouraged by ranges in all three to destroy any cairns not necessary for navigation, along with any illegal campfire rings or campsites

I can understand that without that background and training, you might not want to do the same, please don't pretend it is only Yosemite with this policy.

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Check our our website: http://www.backpackthesierra.com/
Or just read a good mystery novel set in the Sierra; https://www.amazon.com/Danger-Falling-Rocks-Paul-Wagner/dp/0984884963



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 07/29/2023 09:25AM by balzaccom.

Hi Balzaccon,

I appreciate your service and your experience.
I don't pretend, I read.

According to the National Park service, in the article I quoted: "[T]hey all have the same rule: If you come across a cairn, do not disturb it. Don’t knock it down or add to it."
Your quarrel is not with me, I'm simply pointing out the rule according to the national park service, the reason for that rule, and the reason I will follow the rule.

Quote
Coolburn
Hi Balzaccon,

I appreciate your service and your experience.
I don't pretend, I read.

According to the National Park service, in the article I quoted: "[T]hey all have the same rule: If you come across a cairn, do not disturb it. Don’t knock it down or add to it."
Your quarrel is not with me, I'm simply pointing out the rule according to the national park service, the reason for that rule, and the reason I will follow the rule.

I bet you that the National Park service is not referring to visitor created works of "art" when they state do not disturb cairns. I'd be willing to bet a sawbuck they are referring to those cairns placed by trail crews.

The general NPS statement on cairns is here: https://www.nps.gov/articles/000/idkt_rockcairns.htm

They say each park has its own rules about cairns, but they also say the following as holding across all parks: (a) don't build cairns (they say this twice), (b) don't add to cairns, and (c) don't knock them down if they're there because they might be authorized and therefore are there to help visitors.

My takeaway from this is that if you know a particular cairn is unauthorized, by all means knock it over.

Well,

It looks like I'm in the minority of you guys with opnions on this, ..

so knock yourselves out

My husband and son went to Mirror Lake a few weeks ago and that area just past the staircase to the old parking lot was full of cairns. This is not a trailhead and we have been told in the past to knock them down. Next time we go, we will.

Parklover: if that is the spot I am thinking of, by Mirror Lake, that rock garden was huge the last time I saw it. I seem to remember it existing a long time, before social media made people start building them everywhere. Never the less, it doesn't belong.

That is the one I am talking about. Hubby said there were hundreds of them.

Saw this while looking for an article and it reminded me of this thread. :-)

https://adventure-journal.com/products/cairn-kicker-t-shirt-1

Merry Christmas.

LOL Would love to get one of those. Happy Holidays to you.