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Re: Is it ok to take down rock art?

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Is it ok to take down rock art?
July 18, 2016 09:54PM
Was walking around the Mirror Lake loop and couldn't help but notice the rock art/mega cairns on the northern part of the loop...Tempted to take them down when I head back...Acceptable?
avatar Re: Is it ok to take down rock art?
July 18, 2016 10:49PM
Yes it is but be sure to disperse the rocks as best you can. Don't throw them in the creek as they will be a different color than the creek bottom and can be an eyesore. The best place to throw rocks from a fire ring or whatever is into manzanita which makes it very difficult to reuse them.



Old Dude



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/18/2016 10:52PM by mrcondron.
avatar Re: Is it ok to take down rock art?
July 19, 2016 07:01AM
Perhaps a better question...is it ok to put them up in the first place?
Re: Is it ok to take down rock art?
July 19, 2016 11:00AM
The ones at Glen Aulin camp look like chess pieces, almost enough of 'em to fill up a gameboard. It looks rather silly...the rangers/workers there could easily take them down if they wanted to.
Re: Is it ok to take down rock art?
July 19, 2016 07:23PM
No, it's not OK IMO. This is altering the scenery that is protected by the Organic Act of 1916 that created the National Park Service "to provide for the enjoyment of the same in such manner and by such means as will leave them unimpaired for the enjoyment of future generations". I wish there was some sort of program (apart from becoming a full time ranger, of course) that would give powers to its graduates to issue a warning to those rock artists and other types of LNT abusers.
avatar Re: Is it ok to take down rock art?
July 19, 2016 08:11PM
Quote
SergiyP

I wish there was some sort of program (apart from becoming a full time ranger, of course) that would give powers to its graduates to issue a warning to those rock artists and other types of LNT abusers.

They could add LNT curriculum specifically regarding "rock art" into the Yosemite Junior Rangers program so the young kids no that it's NOT OKAY to disturb and rearrange the rocks. And hopefully the young Jr. Rangers would correct and educate their parents and older siblings and friends when they see them disturbing the rocks.



Leave No Trace
Re: Is it ok to take down rock art?
July 24, 2016 01:59PM
I suppose it all depends on one's perception. two years ago I ascended HD, specifically to take B/W photos of all the soldiers I had seen on a previous visit. Alas, they had all been knocked over by Rangers as they were construed as 'man-made' and unsightly. Earlier on the same trip I had carefully navigated trails that included 'man-made' steps of at least one foot high. not easy with a large pack. 'Repair teams ~ one of which passed me going in a downward direction seemed to me to be doing more damage in half an hour (from the shod feet of their mules) than a thousand hikers could have done in a year. the clip marks on the granite easily identifies where pack animals have been. the amount of equipment, and therefore the number of animals needed to 'repair' trails only highlighted my observations. Hard, Hard work obviously goes into 'maintaining' trails and I suppose that the annual budget has to be spent. But. But. One man's meat etc. etc. etc.Confused
Re: Is it ok to take down rock art?
July 20, 2016 01:23AM
I am a little unclear on why the park rangers don't knock these down. Maybe they get grief from the tourists. But if you are destroying non-compliant fire rings,why wouldn't you also destroy these silly rock piles?



Balzaccom

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Re: Is it ok to take down rock art?
July 21, 2016 05:31AM
Quote
balzaccom
I am a little unclear on why the park rangers don't knock these down. Maybe they get grief from the tourists. But if you are destroying non-compliant fire rings,why wouldn't you also destroy these silly rock piles?
I suppose you have to pick your battles. If the rangers knocked them down, they'd be back the next day. It's a fruitless exercise unless you hire more rangers to police this sort of thing....
Re: Is it ok to take down rock art?
July 20, 2016 02:53PM
OH OH darn it, you got me started. I HATE THESE THINGS. Ive always known them as DUKS, I knock them down everywhere i go. When i look across the landscape and i see these things sticking up out of the ground, its like Graffiti me. I know there is a purpose for these in certain areas where they greatly help to define a trail, and if i determin they are there for that purpose then i do leave them, but generally they are there because someone feels like they need to leave their own mark on the land. Its littering as far as im concerned. Imagine if someone carved an arrow in a tree to point out a direction of travel and then everyone that came along took their turn with the other trees in the area and carved their own arrow or name or sign, LOVELY RIGHT. Last week i knocked over at least 5 of them on 4 mile trail, then the next day a friend of mine went on the same trail and felt it would be funny to send me a photo of him building one back up on the same trail. Im still pissed, the only reason he did it was to piss me off, but the result is that he left it there, Thats what im talking about, they do this crap as a game and in the end its the landscape that is changed. Now kinda off the subject its kind of like building snowmen, sometimes in the winter i see a large areas filled with them, and i cant say i really mind it, I guess its because they melt away, but i can understand if someone out there feels the same way about snowmen as i do for these DUK things. KEEP BUILDING THEM, i know it takes allot less energy for me to knock them down then it did for someone to build it. Hope they got a good workout, and hope they dropped one on their foot. I love duk hunting.
avatar Re: Is it ok to take down rock art?
July 20, 2016 03:34PM
Re: Is it ok to take down rock art?
July 21, 2016 07:27AM
When the trails are not, I really appreciate ducks, cairns, rock art, whatever you call it. I even try and contribute, as my way of giving it forward.

A couple of weekends ago went hiking around Duck Lake, near Lake Alpine. We thought it would be a simple trail, a walk really. Well, half of it was easy, the other half, the trail was not clear. We'd have to stop ever few minutes, pause, and if it wasn't for someone making a small stack of a rocks, we'd have been lost. In fact, at one point we got lost, and ended up having to back track.

Being lost is sometimes fun and adventurous, but if you have kids and a whole group waiting for you, it's not so fun. It's not polite.

So the rock stacks are cool with me.

I think we don't need to take the NPS mission so literally. After all, Stephen Mather, someone I greatly admire, helped build and promote roads and the Ahwahnee.
avatar Re: Is it ok to take down rock art?
July 21, 2016 07:53AM
Kevin is talking this b.s. near Mirror Lake:



It's bull.



Chick-on is looking at you!
avatar Re: Is it ok to take down rock art?
July 21, 2016 08:01AM
What is the reason/purpose for putting up a stack of rocks on Fletcher Lake?



None.

Other than whomever thinks it's cute. My wife did. To which I had to explain why it's not.

Which is the problem. Monkey see... monkey do...

SEKI specifically has told people to NOT put up Ducks/Cairns.... period.
If you cannot navigate w/o them... then do no go off trail. Is what they say.
MAYBE a duck along a granite stretch... ok... but even now... what they
are doing is literally lining the trail with large rocks so if you lose the trail
you must have tripped over it...

Anywho... have a good one. Gonna be gone awhile....

Peace



Chick-on is looking at you!
Re: Is it ok to take down rock art?
July 21, 2016 11:05PM
At least with the rock piles at Mirror Lake, some people are mistakenly thinking that they are historically significant or of native american heritage. I know of friends that had some very negative comments while they were knocking down those rock piles. The longer they are up the more they become part of the landscape.
avatar Re: Is it ok to take down rock art?
July 22, 2016 12:10AM
At least at the Mirror Lake site, since it's not officially in the Yosemite Wilderness, the Park Service could put of small signs at the entrance of the rock field stating "Keep the rocks in a natural state" "Those who rearrange rocks are subject to fines".

Maybe people then will start getting the message.

They could even install one of those larger "educational interpretative" signs (like they have installed elsewhere around Yosemite including other areas of Mirror Lake), where they can explain in greater detail why visitors should leave the rocks alone in their natural state and don't build ducks and other "rock art" with them. And those that are caught doing so are subject to a fine.



Leave No Trace



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 07/22/2016 12:17AM by plawrence.
Re: Is it ok to take down rock art?
July 21, 2016 12:43PM
Rock art and ducks/cairns are different in my book. Ducks and cairns are supposedly to mark "trails".

Rock art is the silly stacks of rocks that, as My Happy Place says, is just a form of human "Look at me! I was here!" BS that drives me crazy!

Haven't people noticed how the dirt/lichens and stains build over time to create patterns and colors? Picking up a rock disturbs the natural patterns. I get incensed. I'm annoyed. I'm appalled. I jump up and down and sputter.

I don't like ducks either. As I've been learning XC ways, I've found ducks to be annoying, since they often lead nowhere. And IMHO, if you need a duck to tell you how to get to or back from somewhere... you need to work on developing your XC skills instead! Learning how to navigate without changing the landscape and letting others have their fun figuring out the way is the way I think XC should be done. Period.

And there is NO place in a national park like Yosemite or Kings or Sequoia where rock "art" should be allowed.

I've spoken to a number of rangers and they do NOT like it, but as has been mentioned, they are understaffed, underpowered to really put a stop to it. Education is their biggest tool, and I don't think the NPS has done enough on the education front there!

So... PLEASE take down the rock art, as MRCONDRON says, toss the rocks into manzanita bushes, if possible, but don't kill a bird or damage a nest!

Spread the word. Educate your friends and family, especially the young ones!
avatar Re: Is it ok to take down rock art?
July 21, 2016 09:43PM
Quote
JustKeepWalking


Rock art is the silly stacks of rocks that, as My Happy Place says, is just a form of human "Look at me! I was here!" BS that drives me crazy!

It's like a dog peeing on a hydrant so the next dog can tell he was there.



Old Dude
Re: Is it ok to take down rock art?
July 22, 2016 06:16AM
These rock piles are a form of graffiti and should be dispersed.
Re: Is it ok to take down rock art?
July 25, 2016 09:49PM
I was in Zion last week and some one had build several on some boulders that were in the middle of the Virgin River. And guess what, the next day there were even more. I say "off with their heads" .
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