Re: Doodad

Boom!



Well... I thought it was kewl

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In a similar vein...

(different trip tho)



Booyah!



Golden...

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Very kewl...

Have seen lots of osprey in Yosemite this year

Saw a few Osprey like at Benson and in Hoova ... (above) ..

Didn't see a single Pika!
Didn't see a single Bald Eagle.

Sigh

Saw a cra-zee bird on Volunteer Peakie tho:



and the sound of the piper

counts for everything



Have fun

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Loved the trip/all the trips- however we think of them!

Thanks to Chick-on and Basilbop for a fabulous time!

Welcome back. Very nice. Thanks for posting.

Quote
The Other Tom
Welcome back. Very nice. Thanks for posting.

Tanks.

I, for one, didn't really want to even leave the mountains. We spent 33 hiking days starting
in August to just after Labor Day... took over 7,500 pix...
So it's pretty daunting to even try to share much...

Highlights:
- Nelder Grove
- Fresno Dome
- Seville/Belle Canyon/Silliman Pass/JO Pass (most xc) (shocking, eh)
- Bishop Pass/Dusy Basin
- Kearsarge Pass/Lakes/Glen Pass/Charlotte Dome/Lake
- Bristlecone Pines
- Benson/Matterhorn/Thompson/Rodgers/Table Mtn/Volunteer/Seavey/No wanna Leavee
- Horsepoo Meadow/Cottonwood Pass/Siberian/Old/New Army Passes
- Leavitt to Basilbop/Tower Lake/Jack Main/Grizzly Goodness/Bond

Resupply in Bay Area this year after 3rd trip ... made things easier

So grateful to JKW and Stick N Fedders...
I'd do it all again

(and probably will)

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Thanks for sharing your itinerary.
Regarding Bishop pass/Dusy basin....Did you happen to come in via Bishop creek ? If so, how full is S. Lake ?
My son and I were up there a few years ago and it was waaaaaay low.

Quote
The Other Tom
Thanks for sharing your itinerary.
Regarding Bishop pass/Dusy basin....Did you happen to come in via Bishop creek ? If so, how full is S. Lake ?
My son and I were up there a few years ago and it was waaaaaay low.

The spillway was overflowing on August 7th.



It looked like this on July 7th:


We also visited Convict and Sabrina on July 7th:
Convict:


Sabrina:


So, yeah, it was FULL in August

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Thanks. I was hoping that was the case.

Here is South Lake on Sept 10th, if that helps

Thanks

Wow that sounds like quite the adventure! Hopefully the fires around Neldar weren't too much of an issue



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/09/2017 02:41PM by KevinD.

Quote
KevinD
Wow that sounds like quite the adventure! Hopefully the fires around Neldar weren't too much of an issue

We went to Nelder and Fresno Dome on Aug 2 ...

They hadn't started yet...



We worked around the fires. Smelled smoke a few times here and there. Got lucky.
Made our own luck. Only changed last trip from south to north ...
Which wasn't a big dealie. We had fun ...

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Wow! Admire your (collectively) dedication to make that happen. I am just beginning to appreciate how beautiful the east side is (Dusy, Humphreys, Evolution). Not YOSE, but beautiful in a different way. And no crowds... :-)

Quote
ags
Wow! Admire your (collectively) dedication to make that happen. I am just beginning to appreciate how beautiful the east side is (Dusy, Humphreys, Evolution). Not YOSE, but beautiful in a different way. And no crowds... :-)

Saw your smiley, and it's needed!

We saw LOTS AND LOTS of peeps. Super busy. Anything close the PCT/JMT or "named" loops is nutty.

East side trailheads and trails were busy and towns were filling up every night up and down 395 (we were told). It's not as low key and quiet as it used to be....

I wish everyone was super diligent about minimizing trace!

And I wish NO CAMPFIRES AT ALL rule was practiced everywhere.

So many illegal firerings! You can manage to get a permit but can't figure out you just passed a sign saying "no fires above this point" and can't read a map or use a gps to figure out your elevation?

Sorry. Was beautiful, but exceedingly frustrating at times!

When we were there, in addition the the signs "you've just passed 10k' elevation - no campfires!" on trails (we were off-trail most of the time) there was also a ban on fires anywhere in the Inyo NF other than established campsites (i.e. car camping). Yet we found places where some rocket scientists decided that breaking a limb (with green needles) from a living tree to start a fire was OK. So left behind was a wound on the tree dripping sap, a broken branch with a charred end, and clearly no fire was ever started.

FWIW, when off-trail, we actively avoid tramping the wildflowers, succulents, grasses, mosses, cryptobiotic crust, ants, beetles... I guess we are a bit nuts :-)

But away from PCT (and trails) we had lots of private beauty. Spectacular!!

Really want to see some stuff from Seville/Belle Canyon/Silliman Pass

Quote
yosemitejim
Really want to see some stuff from Seville/Belle Canyon/Silliman Pass

Sorry.

Pretty much spend more than half of time in the mountains...
The other 3/4 thinking about them, planning, scheming and dreaming...

Here's too to think about:





Had a few amazing trips in that area... hopefully can maybe do another before
The won ate naught closes for this year...

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The won nought ate.

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Old Dude

The won ate naught ... me thinks closes on Nov. 13/ 14?.
Rain or shine.
(though that's just the campground date... but I'm presuming it matches)

The won naught ate ... like The won twentee ... who knows.
(though they prolly gonna close it come friday)

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Quote
chick-on

More rock stacking?

The more recent years have been frustrating on the Leave No Trace front. It seems that it is OK just do what you want, with no regards for nature, or anyone else.

Last year, there was tissue or toilet paper left everywhere. This year my gripe is the picked bouquets of flowers left everywhere. Yeah, thanks for not leaving the live blooms for everyone else to enjoy...I'm glad that you enjoy your selfies with the flowers.

Sigh. TP...

I'm afraid that the causes of the lack of LNT awareness and/or adherence are manifold - not the least of which is big business/marketing/consumerism. Even ostensibly "green" good stewards of the planet (e.g. REI) are conflicted (at best). Ubiquitous advertising promulgates an ideal with (implicit if not explicit) messages and images that to enjoy the outdoors you need stuff - a lot of stuff, the more the better. That is to say, the more you can bring into the outdoors, the more you can change it, the more you'll enjoy it.

Consider this more appropriate message instead: "Go into the wilderness and enjoy it as if you were never there. Sleep on the granite, don't disturb the fauna, take the long way around to not trample the flora. Carry out 5 days of soiled toilet paper in a Ziploc bag. The smaller your footprint the more you'll love it."

When vendors lead with that written or visual message, things may improve. Otherwise, the self-selection process for future generations of wilderness adventurers is working against LNT principles.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/15/2017 01:33PM by ags.

Saw this last weekend at a trailhead.

Sigh

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" Carry out 5 days of soiled toilet paper in a Ziploc bag."

I understand your point. Still, this is a bridge too far for me. TP is..paper. Which is a wood product. It's returning to where it began. Bury your tp properly and it may well be enriching the soil. Of course, you could burn it in a small fire, if those are allowed.

I do see, rarely, tp that bears have dug up floating about. It's ugly. It won't last through next spring.

Well, you've struck a raw nerve here (with me). I don't have first-hand or credible data on how long TP will last in various conditions - maybe I will conduct an experiment to be able to provide hard evidence based on first-hand observation.

What I can say - based on personal observation - is that there is an abundance of very ugly, very visible, very intact TP where it does not belong.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/24/2017 07:21AM by ags.

Yes, TP is paper and will degrade over time. The key phrase here is "over time". It takes moisture to speed that process, a comparatively rare commodity in the Sierra (It's typically dry in the summer). So TP tends to stay around longer in the Sierra compared to other, more "wet" areas.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/20/2017 05:23AM by The Other Tom.

In Yosemite it used to be simply "bury your toilet paper ... "
That changed in fairly recent years (say < 10) due to people not actually burying their TP.

If you were a ranger... would you really want to be doing your rounds and have to
pick up used toilet paper?

Use wet ones. They're cleaner and ur butte gets nice n clean.

Pack it in... pack it out...

Pretty simple.

Sigh

Guess I should have titled the thread:
DooDoo

Peace

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Another factor is that small burrowing animals will haul exposed off TP to use as insulation in their burrows. It all works well until winter when they bring little bits of snow which soak into the fluffy TP causing it to compact and loose its insulating quality resulting in a dead critter.

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Old Dude



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/23/2017 01:29AM by mrcondron.

Quote
jeffrey
TP is..paper. Which is a wood product. It's returning to where it began

By this logic, I assume you would be ok with people burying actual paper? How about similar paper products such as paper napkins, paper plates or paper towels? How about newspaper or cardboard? Really, all the items in this list: aper_products" target="_blank" >Paper Products (Wikipedia)?

As the paper is not made from the trees in the area, really your argument is that TP is of similar organic matter and should be allowed to decompose. That would also include pretty much all food and food products. How would you feel about that?

These questions were mostly rhetorical and I assume most if not all your answers would be no.

Then you have a logical fallacy. It seems your objection is not really with the TP or in carrying out trash in general, it is just that it is unpalatable to pack out used toilet paper.

That is a fine opinion to have, but not one I find reasonable to leave trash in wilderness. If you don't want to pack out used toilet paper, you can use alternative methods such as using natural sources or use a bidet device. Granted they may not be easy and take some practice, but there are other options. I for one haven't used TP for years. One less thing to carry and you don't have to worry about running out.

Actually that's more than likely TP that wasn't buried at all but rather TP that just had some dirt kicked over it after someone dropped an ace.

Here"s how I handle things:

1. Latex gloves each in a sandwich ziplock bag. Several of these stored in a quart freezer ziplock bag. I plan for two a day to be safe.
2. About 1/2 inch stack of adult scent free butt wipes in a gallon freezer ziplock bag.
3. Several empty quart freezer ziplock bags.
4. Sani-Hand wipes if desired for post deuceage use if desired.
4. All of the above carried in a lightweight fanny pack.

When it's deuce time I take out a sandwich ziplock with a latex glove, two butt wipes from the gallon bag, and one empty quart freezer ziplock bag. Use hiking sticks to dig a nice hole, don the latex glove, drop deuce, use butt wipe/s appropriately, wad butt wipes into hand with glove on it and pull the glove off catching the butt wipes inside glove. Put glove into the sandwich ziplock it came out of and put the sandwich ziplock into an empty quart ziplock bag. Everything back in the fanny pack which does not go into my bear can. When I get home I but the quart ziplock bag containing the used sandwich bags, gloves, and butt wipes in the garbage.

This method minimizes the chance of self contamination and leaves nothing behind except well buried and stirred in deuces.

The used butt wipes are basically triple wrapped so there is virtually no chance of odor or contamination.

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Old Dude

oh never mind...I don't want to get into a pissing contest.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 09/22/2017 01:30PM by jeffrey.

How do we reach people like Jeffrey?

1. He is doing something wrong
2. He almost certainly knows he is doing something wrong or at least can't argue against it. (Pretty much the same)
3. Pointing out why he is doing something wrong and the impacts of it don't change the behavior.

Is it just impossible on a internet forum? Are there any other strategies that we could use that would be more effective?

In his defense...

(I read his post before the "nevermind" )

He seems to really care. Often times posts come off as combative.
Or the way things are conveyed aren't clear.

Anyway, maybe he can read Old Doods for other ideas if change is desired.

https://yosemitenews.info/forum/read.php?17,90565,90720#msg-90720

Saw this at Olmsted Saturday....



I don't think any of us really want to see that.

Have a nice day

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Quote
chick-on
In his defense...

(I read his post before the "nevermind" )

Unfornuately, I didn't have the chance.

Quote
chick-on
He seems to really care. Often times posts come off as combative.
Or the way things are conveyed aren't clear.

Very true. Easy to have misunderstandings online, either via forums, email, chats, etc.

I debated for a while to add the part about using other methods. Ultimately I added it as I wanted to provide another method, so one wouldn't be 'forced' to pack out TP if they didn't want to. I added the bit about not using it as I didn't want to be "Do as I say, not as I do". Plus it's true: I don't and I find it easier, but I realize it is not for many people.

But I also realize how that could come across. It wasn't my intention and I tried to be straight forward when writing it, but that is not the way it came across.

Though I find it ironic that for something in the regular world is considered pretty much abhorrent, here it is the opposite.

Quote
chick-on
Anyway, maybe he can read Old Doods for other ideas if change is desired.

https://yosemitenews.info/forum/read.php?17,90565,90720#msg-90720

Good post. Maybe a little excessive for my tastes, but some really good hints in there.

Quote
chick-on
Saw this at Olmsted Saturday....

I don't think any of us really want to see that.
Have a nice day

Nope, not at all. This is why I don't like TP in the wilderness. Probably at this point, I have packed out more of other people's TP than my own. If I can pack out other's used TP, surely people can pack out their own.

Warning, potentially unpleasant photos below:

Kibbie Lake:


Lower Cathedral Lake:


Half Dome:







Edit: Messed up the photo links



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 09/25/2017 11:27PM by buster.

Photos didn't show up.

Hopefully some good comes from discussion.

Personally I went from:
- Drop TP into cat hole and bury
to
- Drop TP into cat hole
- Pour litre of water into cat hole
- Stir
to
- Don't use TP at all
** my permit process was:
- I don't make fires
- I don't use toilet paper
- I'll be miles from any trail
- I have a bear can
- I love Yosemite
to
- I use wet ones (one or two)
- wipe, fold, wipe, fold, wipe fingers, put in zip lock

(Old dood method is too involved for my chick-on brain)

But keeping clean via bird bath, swimming, water washing clothes
and using wet ones to "wash" face and other areas is... well...
kinda required when your a band of 3 and sharing a tent

Anyway,
Have fun out there

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I'm not sure how tis thread went from Chick-on, Basilbop, and JKW's fabulous month in the mountains to personal waster disposal
The toilet paper need to be carried out in a ziplock bag. I keep the bag in a little kit with the shovel. I also carry a small
1-2 oz bottle of degermer for my hands.
Toilet paper, when buried , seem to rise out of the ground like some kind of ugly rose. Also.
people need to walk further from the trail. Ruins a lot of nice areas.

One more thought on unpleasant waste.


Seen at the Wild Plum Campground near Sierra City. You have to think it was a problem if they put up a sign.