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Re: Other permit questions

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Other permit questions
January 21, 2020 01:35AM
Hi, we hope you can help us with our questions. We tried to call the "helpdesk" for permit requests, but they didn't answer the phone.

This summer we have planned to do a wilderness trip in Yosemite. We also have some questions about the permit request.

1. We have a few options prepared with different trailheds. We have learned that it is not allowed that each member of our group requests a permit for the same trip. However, would it be allowed if another member of our group requests a totally different round trip starting at the same date and at a different trailhead?

2. Can you use the traihead Medlicott Dome approach for a permit request? If so, is it allowed to camp somewhere at Echo Creek? The trailhed is not mentioned on the permit request map.

3. The online lottery ends at 7.30 AM PST, but what is the start time that the permit requests can be submitted? We live in Europe, so we have to plan accordingly because of the time difference.


Thanks in advance.
Re: Other permit questions
January 21, 2020 09:19AM
Can't help you with the online reservation system, haven't used it yet. Nor have I tried to game the lottery system with multiple requests from people in the same group, can't help you there either.

If you're talking about the climbers' route to Medlicott Dome (look around this forum for discussions of that route), no, you can't use that as a backpacking trailhead. You can, however, camp in the Echo Creek area (except in Little Yosemite Valley). But your question makes me wonder if you actually mean Echo Creek, because Echo Creek starts below the east face of Cockscomb and runs south until it merges with the Merced River; while you can certainly get to the upper part of Echo Creek starting from the Medlicott Dome area (most obvious way would be start at the Cathedral Lakes TH and take the JMT to Cathedral Pass, then go x-country), why would you want to camp there and not near Echo Lake or Matthes Lake, which are more reliable sources of water (if you're going late summer, you didn't say)?
Re: Other permit questions
January 21, 2020 10:35AM
actually, you can use the Medlicott climbers' trail to start a backpacking trip, but your wilderness permit will need to come out of the Cathedral Lakes trailhead quota. I know, found out last fall.
Re: Other permit questions
January 21, 2020 10:15PM
1. Yes you could. It is a separate trip, but might as well put it as one of your choices. The problem is if you get both choices. Of course you can cancel one of the choices and feel better about yourself, but if someone else tried to get one of those routes and wasn't successful, they'll be out of a permit they could have gotten. They won't be likely to apply again for the same route if they got denied the first time.

2. As someone else mentioned, it'll be the Cathedral Lakes trailhead. If you start somewhere other than one of the designated trailheads, you'll still count against the quota of the nearest trailhead.

My concern is where did you find that 'trailhead'. My guess is caltopo or alltrails. While caltopo is a great program that I often use, the default map shows both park maintained trails and use trails as the same, even though they are not. Use trails are trails that were formed or created by users. These aren't officially maintained or created and they aren't signed. Those trails can be uploaded by anyone.
As you can imagine, there is a wide variety of quality of the use trails; some are almost like park trails, while others are barely a trail at all; some are both, starting out like a normal trail and then finishing up as a faint trail, or some combination of both.

I would change the view (or layer) to be the USGS Topo to get the park maintained trails.

3. You can submit 24 hours before the 7:30 deadline
Re: Other permit questions
January 22, 2020 01:47AM
Thanks, this is very helpfull.

@buster: I discovered the trail at the National Geographics maps. Later, I found out that is was an approach trail for Medlicott.

I'm monitoring the full trailhead report since last summer. It seems that Catheral Lakes trailhead is very busy, so we suppose our chances to get a permit are small.

We have planned to go in July. We have to check on water sources when we arrive in the USA or at the rangerstation.
@not quite The Geezer, but getting there: Ï was just looking on the map and try to figure out a descent route. I saw that Echo Creek is a large area and we want to avoid the JMT much as possible. So possibly, I didn't express myself very well. Finally we have to go to the Merced river /Merced Lake to proceed our route.

At this moment we have worked out three trips starting at Tioga Road / Tuolumne Meadows and two starting at Glacier Point road. Starting at Tioga Road is our first choice. We aren't very flexible in starting dates, since we have to plan very early. We are making a 4 week car/camping/hiking/backpacking trip in the Yosemite / SEKI / Big Sur area and already had to buy flight tickets and made reservations for campgrounds. So, we have 1-3 dates to start with our back country hike. I suppose that as you can check the full trailhead report, it doesn't harm many people as we cancel a Glacier Point Road permit.

We decided to do our first permit request today. I will let you now how it worked out for us.
Re: Other permit questions
January 23, 2020 10:05PM
Quote
MTE
Thanks, this is very helpfull.

@buster: I discovered the trail at the National Geographics maps. Later, I found out that is was an approach trail for Medlicott.

I'm monitoring the full trailhead report since last summer. It seems that Catheral Lakes trailhead is very busy, so we suppose our chances to get a permit are small.

We have planned to go in July. We have to check on water sources when we arrive in the USA or at the rangerstation.
@not quite The Geezer, but getting there: Ï was just looking on the map and try to figure out a descent route. I saw that Echo Creek is a large area and we want to avoid the JMT much as possible. So possibly, I didn't express myself very well. Finally we have to go to the Merced river /Merced Lake to proceed our route.

At this moment we have worked out three trips starting at Tioga Road / Tuolumne Meadows and two starting at Glacier Point road. Starting at Tioga Road is our first choice. We aren't very flexible in starting dates, since we have to plan very early. We are making a 4 week car/camping/hiking/backpacking trip in the Yosemite / SEKI / Big Sur area and already had to buy flight tickets and made reservations for campgrounds. So, we have 1-3 dates to start with our back country hike. I suppose that as you can check the full trailhead report, it doesn't harm many people as we cancel a Glacier Point Road permit.

We decided to do our first permit request today. I will let you now how it worked out for us.

I'm really surprised that you found it on National Geographic maps. I have used the Nat Geo maps for years. It's the map that I take on all my hikes and I have never seen the Medlicott trail on it.

You can always get a walk up permit. 40% of each trailhead is available for walkup starting the day before. Might not get the preferred option, but there's lots of beautiful spots to go to that aren't on the busy trails. Also makes the overall experience easier; don't have to worry about making reservations, getting it in on time, dealing with lots of people on the trail, etc.

If you are wanting to avoid the JMT and go to Merced Lake, I would suggest looking at Rafferty Creek to Vogelsang. It's a little longer, but will also get you there.

Just a guess, but are you from Germany?
Re: Other permit questions
January 24, 2020 11:05AM
@buster: I have checked the NG map. You're right, the Medlicott trail is not on this map. I suppose I discovered on All Trails.

We have tried three options: Rafferty Creek, Lyell Canyon and Sunrise trailhead and applied two times. None of these were succesfull.
The idea was to hike from TM area to Red Pass to Tenaya Lake. We can still try one time to get a permit, or wait for an walk in permit.

Not Germany, we are dutch. :-) Unfortunately my english is worse than my german ;-). We use to go to the Alps during our holidays.
Re: Other permit questions
January 27, 2020 10:27PM
Quote
MTE
@buster: I have checked the NG map. You're right, the Medlicott trail is not on this map. I suppose I discovered on All Trails.

We have tried three options: Rafferty Creek, Lyell Canyon and Sunrise trailhead and applied two times. None of these were succesfull.
The idea was to hike from TM area to Red Pass to Tenaya Lake. We can still try one time to get a permit, or wait for an walk in permit.

Not Germany, we are dutch. :-) Unfortunately my english is worse than my german ;-). We use to go to the Alps during our holidays.

I was almost doing to guess Dutch but statistically it was better to guess German. But if you you ain't dutch you aren't much!

Hopefully you were able to get a permit. If not, there are other options if you want to go over Red Peak Pass.
Re: Other permit questions
February 07, 2020 09:27AM
I'm glad to tell that we finally managed to get a permit. We had to call, because we didn't receive an email.
We are going to hike from Rafferty Creek to Tenaya Lake in 7 days. We have read some nice suggestions about campsites on the forum, so we 're really looking forward to this trip.
Thanks for your help.
Re: Other permit questions
February 08, 2020 11:11PM
Glad you were able to get the permit. Lots of possibilities for that many days - have a good time.
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