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Re: First two bears bagged in Nevada bear hunt

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avatar First two bears bagged in Nevada bear hunt
August 21, 2011 06:16PM
2 bears harvested so far in Nevada's bear season
http://www.rgj.com/article/20110821/NEWS/110821013

I'm sort of torn on this. I don't understand the allure of hunting, but I'm not one who wants to see the activity banned for those who do.

The area of the hunt isn't exclusively in the Tahoe Basin, but I understand it includes parts that could be considered the Sierra such as the Carson Range. A lot of these bears are conditioned to being around humans, and might have lost their inherent fear of people. It sort of reminds me of the hunt opened at the preserve portion of Katmai National Park and Preserve, where the brown bears are so used to being viewed by humans or being around people fishing that they make few attempts to avoid people. Some equated it to hunting captive animals let out of a cage.
Re: First two bears bagged in Nevada bear hunt
August 21, 2011 06:29PM
Two less bears to attack me as I round the corner on the trail...
avatar Re: First two bears bagged in Nevada bear hunt
August 21, 2011 07:48PM
Attack?



The body betrays and the weather conspires, hopefully, not on the same day.
avatar Re: First two bears bagged in Nevada bear hunt
August 21, 2011 08:11PM
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Bee
Attack?
Ambush by ursine panhandlers.



The cure for a fallacious argument is a better argument, not the suppression of ideas.
-- Carl Sagan
Re: First two bears bagged in Nevada bear hunt
August 21, 2011 08:16PM
I don't worry so much about the bears. But I worry a lot when I am in the back country with a bunch of people who are looking to shoot at something.
avatar Re: First two bears bagged in Nevada bear hunt
August 22, 2011 11:44AM
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wherever
I don't worry so much about the bears. But I worry a lot when I am in the back country with a bunch of people who are looking to shoot at something.



avatar Re: First two bears bagged in Nevada bear hunt
August 21, 2011 07:49PM
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y_p_w
2 bears harvested so far in Nevada's bear season
http://www.rgj.com/article/20110821/NEWS/110821013

I'm sort of torn on this. I don't understand the allure of hunting, but I'm not one who wants to see the activity banned for those who do.

The area of the hunt isn't exclusively in the Tahoe Basin, but I understand it includes parts that could be considered the Sierra such as the Carson Range. A lot of these bears are conditioned to being around humans, and might have lost their inherent fear of people. It sort of reminds me of the hunt opened at the preserve portion of Katmai National Park and Preserve, where the brown bears are so used to being viewed by humans or being around people fishing that they make few attempts to avoid people. Some equated it to hunting captive animals let out of a cage.

The most inexplicable hunting has got to be hunting by rifle of the American Bison.



The cure for a fallacious argument is a better argument, not the suppression of ideas.
-- Carl Sagan
Re: First two bears bagged in Nevada bear hunt
August 21, 2011 08:00PM
Hunting is disgusting in my opinion. An animal has no defense against a rifle. The only kind of hunting I might not find disgusting would be hand to paw, with a knife or some other weapon.
Re: First two bears bagged in Nevada bear hunt
August 21, 2011 08:17PM
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hotrod4x5
Hunting is disgusting in my opinion. An animal has no defense against a rifle. The only kind of hunting I might not find disgusting would be hand to paw, with a knife or some other weapon.
I agree 100%
avatar Re: First two bears bagged in Nevada bear hunt
August 21, 2011 08:39PM
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ryanmj
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hotrod4x5

Hunting is disgusting in my opinion. An animal has no defense against a rifle. The only kind of hunting I might not find disgusting would be hand to paw, with a knife or some other weapon.

I agree 100%

And what good defense does a freshwater fish, like a trout, have against a hook, lure, or fly? Or do you find fishing disgusting too?

I'm not a hunter. That sport doesn't really appeal to me either. But within limits (so wildlife populations don't get decimated and wiped out), I really don't see anything inherently wrong with it as a pastime. Hunting, fortunately, isn't any more a necessity for humankind. But because it's no longer an essential part of day to day human life (remember that we human beings for most of our existence have been hunters & gatherers), doesn't mean it should be looked down upon.

I'm glad that I live in a country that people are free to partake in activities that myself (and many others) might not find appealing.
avatar Re: First two bears bagged in Nevada bear hunt
August 21, 2011 09:48PM
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plawrence
I'm not a hunter. That sport doesn't really appeal to me either. But within limits (so wildlife populations don't get decimated and wiped out), I really don't see anything inherently wrong with it as a pastime. Hunting, fortunately, isn't any more a necessity for humankind. But because it's no longer an essential part of day to day human life (remember that we human beings for most of our existence have been hunters & gatherers), doesn't mean it should be looked down upon.

I'm glad that I live in a country that people are free to partake in activities that myself (and many others) might not find appealing.

Again, I'm not a hunter and don't really see it as anything I'd really want to do.

If people want to hunt game, more power to them as long as they're not drunk and shooting at anything that moves. However, I do get that it shouldn't be that easy. We're talking human conditioned bears, and I'm guessing at this point they're not used to having people shoot at them. It would be like someone hunting deer where I live. They've been conditioned to being around humans such that they would easily stick around with someone standing 30 feet away. If hunting were suddenly allowed (in a densely populated suburb - right) it would be pretty easy for someone to just walk up to one of these deer and take it out.

California issues over a thousand bear tags every year. I guess about 1 in 20 bears in the state gets taken by a hunter.
avatar Re: First two bears bagged in Nevada bear hunt
August 21, 2011 10:59PM
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y_p_w

If people want to hunt game, more power to them as long as they're not drunk and shooting at anything that moves. However, I do get that it shouldn't be that easy. We're talking human conditioned bears, and I'm guessing at this point they're not used to having people shoot at them. It would be like someone hunting deer where I live. They've been conditioned to being around humans such that they would easily stick around with someone standing 30 feet away. If hunting were suddenly allowed (in a densely populated suburb - right) it would be pretty easy for someone to just walk up to one of these deer and take it out.

You actually just touched upon one of the real beneficial aspects of hunting in regards to wildlife management. It helps keep wildlife wild by keeping wildlife's fear of humans intact. (And maybe helping instill that fear where wildlife has unfortunately become too habituated with people.) Isn't it best for wildlife to still harbor a healthy fear of people? That's why no one is supposed to feed wildlife. Hunters help keep that fear intact where hunting is permitted.

(Just think, if marmots were more widely hunted by humans, I doubt that they would be such a nuisance to backpackers as they are now!) wink
Re: First two bears bagged in Nevada bear hunt
August 22, 2011 04:01PM
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plawrence
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y_p_w

If people want to hunt game, more power to them as long as they're not drunk and shooting at anything that moves. However, I do get that it shouldn't be that easy. We're talking human conditioned bears, and I'm guessing at this point they're not used to having people shoot at them. It would be like someone hunting deer where I live. They've been conditioned to being around humans such that they would easily stick around with someone standing 30 feet away. If hunting were suddenly allowed (in a densely populated suburb - right) it would be pretty easy for someone to just walk up to one of these deer and take it out.

You actually just touched upon one of the real beneficial aspects of hunting in regards to wildlife management. It helps keep wildlife wild by keeping wildlife's fear of humans intact.

I don't think this is true. There are habituated bears outside national parks, in areas where they are hunted. There are fewer people in those areas exposing the bears to the allure of human food, so fewer problems with habituated bears - but they are there, breaking into cabins from time to time, or cars, or stealing food out of campsites.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/22/2011 04:02PM by AlmostThere.
avatar Re: First two bears bagged in Nevada bear hunt
August 23, 2011 03:06AM
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AlmostThere
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plawrence
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y_p_w

If people want to hunt game, more power to them as long as they're not drunk and shooting at anything that moves. However, I do get that it shouldn't be that easy. We're talking human conditioned bears, and I'm guessing at this point they're not used to having people shoot at them. It would be like someone hunting deer where I live. They've been conditioned to being around humans such that they would easily stick around with someone standing 30 feet away. If hunting were suddenly allowed (in a densely populated suburb - right) it would be pretty easy for someone to just walk up to one of these deer and take it out.

You actually just touched upon one of the real beneficial aspects of hunting in regards to wildlife management. It helps keep wildlife wild by keeping wildlife's fear of humans intact.

I don't think this is true. There are habituated bears outside national parks, in areas where they are hunted. There are fewer people in those areas exposing the bears to the allure of human food, so fewer problems with habituated bears - but they are there, breaking into cabins from time to time, or cars, or stealing food out of campsites.


Maybe the bears aren't hunted in sufficient quantities to instill fear in them.

Hike around a National Forest where deer are hunted versus a National Park where they're not. The deer in the National Forest will tend to be a lot more skittish around people than those you see in the National Parks.
Re: First two bears bagged in Nevada bear hunt
August 21, 2011 10:26PM
Do you eat meat or fish or even dairy products? If you do, you are an ignorant hypocrite.

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hotrod4x5
Hunting is disgusting in my opinion. An animal has no defense against a rifle. The only kind of hunting I might not find disgusting would be hand to paw, with a knife or some other weapon.
Re: First two bears bagged in Nevada bear hunt
August 22, 2011 04:26PM
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LVRAY
Do you eat meat or fish or even dairy products? If you do, you are an ignorant hypocrite.

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hotrod4x5
Hunting is disgusting in my opinion. An animal has no defense against a rifle. The only kind of hunting I might not find disgusting would be hand to paw, with a knife or some other weapon.

The food I eat is RAISED to be slaughtered. The bears you shoot are NOT. BIG difference.
Re: First two bears bagged in Nevada bear hunt
August 22, 2011 06:04PM
Yes, big difference. Your method is far more inhumane, you are just too blind or stupid to realize that.

BTW, I do not hunt - never have. But I know the meat I consume is often produced by some very inhumane techniques. I do not pretend to have some BS superior attitude by attacking something I do not particularly agree with myself. But at least I understand both hunting and how commercial meat is produced.

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hotrod4x5
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LVRAY
Do you eat meat or fish or even dairy products? If you do, you are an ignorant hypocrite.

Quote
hotrod4x5
Hunting is disgusting in my opinion. An animal has no defense against a rifle. The only kind of hunting I might not find disgusting would be hand to paw, with a knife or some other weapon.

The food I eat is RAISED to be slaughtered. The bears you shoot are NOT. BIG difference.
Re: First two bears bagged in Nevada bear hunt
August 23, 2011 06:30AM
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LVRAY
Yes, big difference. Your method is far more inhumane, you are just too blind or stupid to realize that.

BTW, I do not hunt - never have. But I know the meat I consume is often produced by some very inhumane techniques. I do not pretend to have some BS superior attitude by attacking something I do not particularly agree with myself. But at least I understand both hunting and how commercial meat is produced.

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hotrod4x5
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LVRAY
Do you eat meat or fish or even dairy products? If you do, you are an ignorant hypocrite.

Quote
hotrod4x5
Hunting is disgusting in my opinion. An animal has no defense against a rifle. The only kind of hunting I might not find disgusting would be hand to paw, with a knife or some other weapon.

The food I eat is RAISED to be slaughtered. The bears you shoot are NOT. BIG difference.
Thank you for calling me blind and stupid. I do know that not all animals killed in the meat industry are killed humanely. I also know that those animals wouldn't have ever been born if not for said industry. Is it a perfect solution? No, of course not.

But to kill an animal that has struggled to live in the wild, feeding off the land, minding it's own business, is also inhumane.

Perhaps you are the blind and stupid one? Especially since you say you do not hunt, yet you offer your opinion that it is more inhumane than the way animals are slaughtered. What about a buck who is shot in the chest and runs off with a bullet wound in his side? He limps on and on for hours as the hunters try to find him for the kill shot. He is in agony all that time, slowly dying from that one shot. Blood is dripping from the wound as each step he takes puts him closer to death. It takes HOURS for him to die. How is that more humane than a slice to the neck that kills an animal in a few minutes? (now it's your turn to tell me about the inhumane living conditions, yada yada yada)
Re: First two bears bagged in Nevada bear hunt
August 22, 2011 09:23AM
I hunt, but only for things that I'm going to eat, almost exclusively for wild pig and turkey, and never predators.

Given that the bear is the apex predator, although also an omnivore, and it tastes like funky crap, I've have never understood the allure, whatsoever, of hunting them.

We're both hunters, the bear and I, and he/she lives there, fer chrissakes, so why would I want to go and shoot one.

That, and the 'big game' hunters I've met who shoot bears are almost universally, to a man, assholes.
avatar Re: First two bears bagged in Nevada bear hunt
August 22, 2011 10:59AM
I am definitely not a hunter..but I don't think that this is necessarily about hunting. I have spent a fair amount of time in the Tahoe basin and can tell you that there are way more bears there than the basin can naturally support. In my admittedly less-than-expert opinion, before human encroachment, bears, and all wildlife, had their population controlled through the vagaries of nature and had a reletively stable population. Its now all screwed up, and the bears have figured out that they can break into cabins and condos, raid campsites, etc. for food, rather than subsisting off of the land.
"Wildlife management" always seemed like something of an oxymoron to me...we screwed the system up so now we have to "manage" it back to the way it should have been...but until such time as we can completely eliminate the bears obtaining non-natural foodsources, their numbers will be unsustainable and that isn't any more fair to the bears than being shot.
avatar Re: First two bears bagged in Nevada bear hunt
August 22, 2011 01:54PM
Re: First two bears bagged in Nevada bear hunt
August 22, 2011 07:47PM
Hunting is odious in the extreme: cruel and wanton destuction of beings infinitely more innocent and guileless than humans. In my experience, the hunters I have known (all male), have impotence issues. No real man needs to shoot a defenseless, majestic and beautiful bear to get their jollies. Any man in a successful and loving relationship doesn't need to destroy bears or other wildlife. The frustrated ones who are 400 pound losers are the ones aiming the barrels of their "guns" at bears.
Re: First two bears bagged in Nevada bear hunt
August 22, 2011 10:07PM
That is an unbelievably pointless string of words. Did you actually read the silliness you wrote?

Your ignorance and naiveness is even more extreme than Hotrod's. The same applies to you - if you eat meat or fish or even dairy products (or hell, even wear cotton clothing or consume any number of other commercially produced agricultural products), you are just as cruel and wanton as the average hunter. You just get to pretend you are somehow superior and self-righteous because someone else does the killing on your behalf, hiding the ugliness of death from your eyes. And you somehow you think that makes you a more "real" man? No, it just makes you another hypocrite.

You are also using your obvious hatred of hunters to justify your well beyond absurd statements. The attitude of hunters, the psychology of hunting, the ethics of hunting, and the biological impacts of hunting are separate and complex issues which cannot be summed up with emotional, knee-jerk reactions. The same is true for the ethics and environmental impacts of commercial meat, dairy and produce production.


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Ulysses61
Hunting is odious in the extreme: cruel and wanton destuction of beings infinitely more innocent and guileless than humans. In my experience, the hunters I have known (all male), have impotence issues. No real man needs to shoot a defenseless, majestic and beautiful bear to get their jollies. Any man in a successful and loving relationship doesn't need to destroy bears or other wildlife. The frustrated ones who are 400 pound losers are the ones aiming the barrels of their "guns" at bears.
avatar Re: First two bears bagged in Nevada bear hunt
August 23, 2011 05:51AM
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LVRAY
That is an unbelievably pointless string of words. Did you actually read the silliness you wrote?

Your ignorance and naiveness is even more extreme than Hotrod's. The same applies to you - if you eat meat or fish or even dairy products (or hell, even wear cotton clothing or consume any number of other commercially produced agricultural products), you are just as cruel and wanton as the average hunter. You just get to pretend you are somehow superior and self-righteous because someone else does the killing on your behalf, hiding the ugliness of death from your eyes. And you somehow you think that makes you a more "real" man? No, it just makes you another hypocrite.

You are also using your obvious hatred of hunters to justify your well beyond absurd statements. The attitude of hunters, the psychology of hunting, the ethics of hunting, and the biological impacts of hunting are separate and complex issues which cannot be summed up with emotional, knee-jerk reactions. The same is true for the ethics and environmental impacts of commercial meat, dairy and produce production.


Quote
Ulysses61
Hunting is odious in the extreme: cruel and wanton destuction of beings infinitely more innocent and guileless than humans. In my experience, the hunters I have known (all male), have impotence issues. No real man needs to shoot a defenseless, majestic and beautiful bear to get their jollies. Any man in a successful and loving relationship doesn't need to destroy bears or other wildlife. The frustrated ones who are 400 pound losers are the ones aiming the barrels of their "guns" at bears.

Ray,
It's a good thing to keep the personal comments to a minimum. Your opinions as to facts can be interesting but a long string of derisiveness undercuts your credibility.



Old Dude
avatar Re: First two bears bagged in Nevada bear hunt
August 23, 2011 06:33AM
I'm vegetablaraian

Don't shoot me

(this topic will now be closed)

Have a nice day



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