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Re: Sierra Grizzlies Return?

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phantum
Sierra Grizzlies Return?
June 21, 2014 09:29AM
This topic has made the news lately -- a group wants grizzlies back in the Sierra, among other places:
http://www.biologicaldiversity.org/news/press_releases/2014/grizzly-bear-06-18-2014.html
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avatar Re: Sierra Grizzlies Return?
June 21, 2014 06:09PM
Saber tooth tiger next?
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Ken M
Re: Sierra Grizzlies Return?
June 21, 2014 11:20PM
Quote
phantum
This topic has made the news lately -- a group wants grizzlies back in the Sierra, among other places:
http://www.biologicaldiversity.org/news/press_releases/2014/grizzly-bear-06-18-2014.html

I would be VERY cautious about this sort of move. If you go back in the historical record, there is little that scared the early settlers and explorers of Ca like the Grizzly. I strongly recommend the book "Up and Down California" by William Brewer (part of the group that discovered many mountains in the Sierra, including Whitney), if you can find it.

http://www.amazon.com/Up-Down-California-1860-1864-Journal/dp/0520238656

These hardy explorers lived in great fear of the Grizzly, and their stories resonated.

Also, this petition wants to restore Grizzlies to a significant portion of their historic geography. Sorry, that is mostly occupied by people, so you see what their agenda may actually be.
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wherever
Re: Sierra Grizzlies Return?
June 22, 2014 02:57PM
Short answer? These guys are crazy.

Grizzlies are territorial and mean. They are incapable of not molesting people and domestic animals. Unlike black bears, who run the other way when you shout at them, they come for you instead.

The real question is, whether some nuts in the government will listen to them.

Maybe it's a plot by the people who want to justify always carrying their guns....
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avatar Re: Sierra Grizzlies Return?
June 22, 2014 03:02PM
Quote
wherever
Maybe it's a plot by the people who want to justify always carrying their guns....

That wouldn't surprise me.
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chicagocwright
Re: Sierra Grizzlies Return?
June 23, 2014 01:16AM
Sigh. Populous California and uneducated hikers mixing with grizzly bears? Oh boy! In Alaska and Anchorage specifically it is accepted that every once in a while someone is going to get mauled and perhaps even killed. When that happens, there is no outcry to go and hunt down the bear to kill it. I can't imagine that being acceptable in many places.

As far as carrying guns...nevermind. Please don't turn this thread into gun control nonsense.
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KenS
Re: Sierra Grizzlies Return?
June 23, 2014 05:01PM
Getting mauled by a grizzly often means having your jaw ripped off your face.

It is common for a grizzly (brown bear) to bite down on the jaw: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bear_attack
"...In contrast to injuries caused by American black bears, which are usually minor, brown bear attacks tend to result in serious injury and in some cases death. In the majority of attacks resulting in injury, brown bears precede the attack with a growl or huffing sound,[10] and seem to confront humans as they would when fighting other bears: they rise up on their hind legs, and attempt to "disarm" their victims by biting and holding on to the lower jaw to avoid being bitten in turn.[25] Such a bite can be as severe as that of a tiger, with some human victims having had their heads completely crushed by a bear bite.
Hunters are the people most at risk of bear attacks because, as Tom Smith, a U.S. Geographical Survey research biologist, describes, "Hunters typically aren't making any noise, and they sleuth around while wearing camo."[

Life's good for Alaskan who lost face in grizzly bear attack
Craig Medred | Sep 13, 2012
NOME -- Almost a year and a half after the bear attack, after 26 surgeries and more than a $1 million in medical expenses, Wes Perkins is whole in body and still badly disfigured. There is no gentle way to describe his condition. Doctors had to use part of his fibula to create a jaw to replace what the bear ripped off of his face. He still has a tube in his throat. His left eye, which sees only light and dark, weeps constantly. And probably worst of all, for a man who always loved to talk, he is now hard to understand because he speaks with only half a tongue.
http://www.alaskadispatch.com/article/lifes-good-alaskan-who-lost-face-grizzly-bear-attack?page=full

Angler survives B.C. grizzly attack, airlifted to Vancouver hospital
By Tiffany Crawford, Vancouver SunSeptember 21, 2012 1:26 PM
VANCOUVER - An Alaskan angler mauled by a grizzly bear this week in northwestern B.C. has been airlifted to a Vancouver hospital where he will undergo intensive surgery for many broken bones and a missing jaw.
Sergeant Kevin Nixon with the BC Conservation Officer Service says the 65-year-old man was fishing alone at dusk Tuesday in the Morice River in Houston when he startled a sow and one or two of her cubs.
http://www.alaskadispatch.com/article/veteran-alaska-bush-pilot-mauled-grizzly

B.C. man kills grizzly that attacked him
Hunter set upon by bear that knocked him down and crushed his jaw
CBC News
Posted: Sep 24, 2012 4:41 PM PT
A hunter is recovering at home in northern B.C. after he shot and killed a grizzly bear that was attacking him.
Conrad Boyes, of Vanderhoof, B.C., said he was hunting in a remote area near Fort Nelson earlier this month when he was confronted by the grizzly.
He said the bear stood up on its hind legs and let out a roar. The next thing he knew, he was on the ground wrestling with the huge animal.
"She crunched down on my jaw on my left side ... busted my jaw all to pieces," Boyes told CBC News Monday.
“I ripped my gun down from my shoulder, took the safety off and pulled the trigger twice, and she was just on top of me,” he said. “I got my gun in front of me, and then bang-bang, and that was it."
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/story/2012/09/24/bc-grizzly-attack-fort-nelson.html

Man mauled by grizzly bear in Brooks Range recounts attack
Posted: August 28, 2013 - 12:01am
THE ASSOCIATED PRESS
ANCHORAGE — A man who recently was mauled by a grizzly bear near northern Alaska’s remote Brooks Range said he recognized the animal that left him with broken teeth and a deep gash in his arm from his guide trips.
http://juneauempire.com/state/2013-08-28/man-mauled-grizzly-bear-brooks-range-recounts-attack#.U6i7zLGwWp0



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/23/2014 05:08PM by KenS.
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KenS
Re: Sierra Grizzlies Return?
June 29, 2014 05:32PM
Could much-feared grizzlies hit the comeback trail?
Peter Fimrite
Updated 10:40 pm, Saturday, June 28, 2014

... "Grizzly bears are an iconic animal in this state. They are on the flag. They are on road signs," said Noah Greenwald, the endangered-species director for the Center for Biological Diversity. "The loss of large predators is a global problem, from lions in the African savannah to tigers to wolves to bears in North America. It has had real consequences for ecosystems. Bringing the bears back would correct a historic wrong.

The reasoning behind the petition, Greenwald said, is that grizzlies are native and played an important ecological role, digging up soil and spreading seeds in their feces, which increased plant diversity. They also compete with and keep in check other animal populations, such as black bears, which are growing in number, he said. One cannot ignore the fact, also, that grizzly sightings in Yellowstone prompt cars to stop and camera-toting crowds to gather.

"People love bears," he said. "Anyone who has been to Yellowstone knows the pleasure they bring."

... The idea is unnerving to some California residents.

Lewis Evans, the proprietor of the Kings Canyon Lodge, is certain the brawny bruins would quickly run out of roots, berries and deer calves, and start searching for tasty-looking tourists.


http://www.sfgate.com/default/article/Could-much-feared-grizzlies-hit-the-comeback-5587350.php
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wherever
Re: Sierra Grizzlies Return?
June 29, 2014 10:34PM
Quote
KenS
Lewis Evans, the proprietor of the Kings Canyon Lodge, is certain the brawny bruins would quickly run out of roots, berries and deer calves, and start searching for tasty-looking tourists.

http://www.sfgate.com/default/article/Could-much-feared-grizzlies-hit-the-comeback-5587350.php

1) The proponent quoted in that article is a genuine nut case. For example, he cites a statistic that the average grizzly stays within 10 miles of where he was born. If true, that would be because they are territorial, and there is some other bear's spot located in just about any direction. Put one next to unoccupied, choicer terrain, and he will gravitate in that direction. Do not expect them to stay where you relocate them. This is not rocket science.

2) There was a good reason that my friend who hiked in Alaska was instructed by the rangers to always carry a gun in grizzly country. We don't need them to start telling everyone to do that in the Sierra, too. My gun carrying friends shudder at the thought of pushing guns onto people with no interest in or aptitude for gun safety.

3) When the white man first appeared in the West, there were four apex predators: The grizzly, the wolf (pack), the mountain lion, and the native american. Of those, only the solitary mountain lions were able to adequately hide from the invaders, and only they still roam part of their range today. (Grizzlies and wolves went straight for those armed settlers' sheep, cattle, and horses. They didn't survive long. Do the diversity guys expect to bring back all four of the former apex predators?

4) Case in point: Big Bear Lake, in the mountains above San Bernadino. It got it's name in a very straightforward way. The first party of white men came through in 1845, chasing indians who may or may not have been cattle rustlers. When they camped in the valley which was later dammed to form the lake, their horses were immediately attacked by grizzlies. They divided into 11 pairs of hunters, each of whom took a grizzly pelt. On the way back, a few weeks later, they took 11 more. As the meanest apex predator, the grizzlies had absolutely no fear of people, or anything else. This is in contrast to the black bear, who has been beaten upon by grizzlies since time immemorial, and who has some natural caution. Do not assume that a grizzly is just a big friendly gold-colored black bear.

The only way that grizzlies could be reintroduced in the Sierra would be if a government agency decided it was required to do so, based on an interpretation of some wildlife law. That law would last only until the first bunch of maulings.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 06/30/2014 06:42PM by wherever.
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avatar Re: Sierra Grizzlies Return?
June 30, 2014 11:59AM
Quote
wherever

... As the meanest apex predator, the grizzlies had absolutely no fear of people, or anything else...


Grrrr...

Twice in this thread you have referred to Grizzly bears as being "mean". Grizzly bears (nor any other wild animal) are NOT "mean". I really hate it when people anthropomorphize human emotion and behaviors and ascribe them to wild animals.

And even as a human emotion or be behavior, I think the "mean" and "meanest" are the wrong choice of words in this context.

What I think what you're getting at is that grizzly bears are inherently savage (“[of an animal or force of nature] fierce, violent, and uncontrolled”) and vicious (“[of an animal] wild and dangerous to people” ).


In regards to the reintroduction of grizzly bears to California, I agree that it's a fool's errand as proposed in their petition to the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service to bring back the Grizzly back to California.

And though the last wild grizzly was seen alive near Sequoia National Park in 1924, their maIn habit was the valleys and foothills of California, not the High Sierra.


[If people are hell-bent in seeing grizzly bears back in California, maybe federal and state agencies like the U.S. F&WS, NPS, and Cal DP&R could use a few captive tagged and radio-collared grizzly bears to help reduce the over-population of mule deer in places like Point Reyes National Seashore or Angel Island. Not that they should be set free grizzly bears in those locations for long periods of time, but instead of having deer hunters help reduce the overpopulation of deer (where hunting is usually prohibited) they could set free for a week to a month, one or two radio-collared captive grizzly bears to feast on the deer and then recapture the grizzly bears and return them to a grizzly bear wildlife sanctuary located somewhere in California.

(Of course the above proposal would probably be opposed vehemently by those on BOTH sides on this issue.)]



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 06/30/2014 01:48PM by plawrence.
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parklover
Re: Sierra Grizzlies Return?
June 30, 2014 03:49PM
Not everyone is told by a ranger that they need to carry a gun in Alaska. I know several people that right now are backpacking in Alaska and they were not told to/or are carrying guns. Are you saying that the grizzly bears at Big Bear did not fear humans because they are apex predictors? If so then what about non apex animals that do not fear humans because they have not been exposed to humans and don't know that humans are dangerous? Personally I would not describe grizzlies as mean, meanest, savage and viscous. They are fulfilling the niche that nature gave them and are not "out to get us.". As for reintroducing them to CA, I doubt that is going to happen. There has been enough flack from certain groups just about poor wolf OR-7 that was in CA looking for love.
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avatar Re: Sierra Grizzlies Return?
June 30, 2014 04:50PM
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parklover

Personally I would not describe grizzlies as mean, meanest, savage and viscous.


So how would YOU describe them? Cute and cuddly? Strong and fierce? Lovable and adorable? Ugly and stinky?


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parklover

They are fulfilling the niche that nature gave them and are not "out to get us.".


I agree 100%.

(But they can still be described accurately as savage and vicious because their behavior and actions fit the meaning of those words.)

.
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parklover
Re: Sierra Grizzlies Return?
June 30, 2014 08:03PM
Quote
plawrence
Quote
parklover

Personally I would not describe grizzlies as mean, meanest, savage and viscous.


So how would YOU describe them? Cute and cuddly? Strong and fierce? Lovable and adorable? Ugly and stinky?


Quote
parklover

They are fulfilling the niche that nature gave them and are not "out to get us.".


I agree 100%.

(But they can still be described accurately as savage and vicious because their behavior and actions fit the meaning of those words.)

.

I have a tendency when describing wild animals to use their physical attribute such as size, gender, appearance and not cute, cuddly, sticky ugly, lovable or adorable. Strong is a measurable term and in a way so is fierce. I would also add if it fits that they can be dangerous and for a person to follow all rules and precautions that are applicable in the area into which they are going.
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avatar Re: Sierra Grizzlies Return?
June 30, 2014 08:53PM
Quote
plawrence
So how would YOU describe them? Cute and cuddly? Strong and fierce? Lovable and adorable? Ugly and stinky?

I would describe them "We are in their food chain".


Old Dude
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enlightphoto
Re: Sierra Grizzlies Return?
June 30, 2014 09:57PM
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plawrence
Quote
parklover


So how would YOU describe them? Cute and cuddly? Strong and fierce? Lovable and adorable? Ugly and stinky?


.

"Capable of being very aggressive and overpowering in offensive or defensive positions; not naturally afraid of any potential threat. Quick to defend, challenge, or attack. At the top of the Food Chain."


Personally I would never want to see them re-introduced in California.


Gary Crabbe
Enlightened Images

"Nearness to Nature keeps the Spirit sensitive to impressions not commonly felt, and in touch with unseen powers." - Oyihesa; Santee Dakota indian, from his book, Soul of the Indian (1911)
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wherever
Re: Sierra Grizzlies Return?
June 30, 2014 05:10PM
Quote
parklover
...They are fulfilling the niche that nature gave them and are not "out to get us"....

So are mosquitoes and deer ticks fulfilling the niche that nature gave them. And those two are certainly out to get me. A human's niche in life is not only to be a predator. Sometimes it is to be the prey. Last week there was a well publicized event in India where a tiger was quite happy to eat a person who had no intention of bothering the tiger.
See link: tiger seizes man off of boat

I don't claim that grizzlies are evil in any sense of the word. But they are certainly less likely to back off in any confrontation than a black bear is, and more likely to cause injury or death.

Not too long ago, I met a black bear coming the other way on the section of the Old Big Oak Flat Road beyond the pipe railing. The hillside there is very steep, and there is no place to get away from the abandoned road for at least a quarter mile in either direction. If I had met a grizzly in that situation, I would very much have wanted to have had a gun, even though I planned to make every effort to just let him go by.

The Alaskan advice to carry a gun was to a lady who would be canoeing on and camping beside a large river that was not yet full of salmon. But hungry grizzlies were migrating into the area in anticipation of the salmon run. There are many places in Alaska where that advice to carry a gun would not be appropriate, but this was not one of those places. The advice was entirely based on expected behavior of the grizzlies.
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chicagocwright
Re: Sierra Grizzlies Return?
June 30, 2014 05:30PM
As with most things, location is key. The grizzlies, or brown bears, are not the same in every location. The Brooks Falls brown bears have such a bountiful food source of salmon that people are able to be around with "little" danger. I would be much more suspect in Denali where the large amounts of fish are not present and the bears have to hunt things such as moose. A canoe trip on a river without running salmon seems like a very appropriate place for a gun. I would be surprised if the rangers didn't give some sort of qualifications along with their advice to bring a gun including large caliber and a proven ability to use and handle such a gun. Shotgun would be even better. Otherwise, the advice I have received seems to be split 50/50 between those who advocate carrying a gun and those who rely on bear spray. In many places, one or the other is a necessity.
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parklover
Re: Sierra Grizzlies Return?
June 30, 2014 08:21PM
There are times to carry guns and times there are not. One thing my uncle, who hunted all over the world, once told me was that if you are going to carry a gun for protection from wild animals or to hunt them, you had better be carrying the right one and know how to use it. Otherwise you are just going to piss it off if you hit it in the wrong place or can't stop it.
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phantum
Re: Sierra Grizzlies Return?
July 01, 2014 08:56AM
Based on comments about the griz's nature and concerns for human interaction, maybe there are locations better suited to conduct this little experiment. The Middle East, for example . . .

Bear Head
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chicagocwright
Re: Sierra Grizzlies Return?
July 01, 2014 09:52AM
Quote
phantum
Based on comments about the griz's nature and concerns for human interaction, maybe there are locations better suited to conduct this little experiment. The Middle East, for example . . .

Bear Head

Anchorage, AK, population 300,000, already experiences this. We seem to have at least one brown bear mauling a year. The latest incident was a runner who happened to run by a brown bear and cubs and the mother took her as a threat. The runner survived the mauling without permanent disfigurement. This happened about a week after I was in the area with my son playing golf nearby. We had bear spray on the golf course with us. Other incidents have included repeated brown bear incursions into chicken coops (which themselves are controversial) or trash cans. It seems that most of the time these brown bears end up having to be killed because they become repeat offenders.

The latest Anchorage thrill is a black bear mother with two cubs that is frequenting several spots in the city. Many are getting worried quickly because the trio is making incursions into trash cans. So far, they have shown no other aggressive behavior even with lots of people out to take pictures. But if they continue the trash can behavior...it may only be a matter of time until they also have to be killed.
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chicagocwright
Re: Sierra Grizzlies Return?
July 21, 2014 03:32PM
Quote
chicagocwright
Quote
phantum
Based on comments about the griz's nature and concerns for human interaction, maybe there are locations better suited to conduct this little experiment. The Middle East, for example . . .

Bear Head

Anchorage, AK, population 300,000, already experiences this. We seem to have at least one brown bear mauling a year. The latest incident was a runner who happened to run by a brown bear and cubs and the mother took her as a threat. The runner survived the mauling without permanent disfigurement. This happened about a week after I was in the area with my son playing golf nearby. We had bear spray on the golf course with us. Other incidents have included repeated brown bear incursions into chicken coops (which themselves are controversial) or trash cans. It seems that most of the time these brown bears end up having to be killed because they become repeat offenders.

The latest Anchorage thrill is a black bear mother with two cubs that is frequenting several spots in the city. Many are getting worried quickly because the trio is making incursions into trash cans. So far, they have shown no other aggressive behavior even with lots of people out to take pictures. But if they continue the trash can behavior...it may only be a matter of time until they also have to be killed.

Unfortunately a few days ago they had to kill the black bear mother. The two cubs were placed in the local zoo caring area and will end up in a zoo in the lower 48.

We also had yet another brown bear mauling very near the one mentioned above. This type it was a soldier during training.

Anchorage Bear Mother Killed
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avatar Re: Sierra Grizzlies Return?
July 01, 2014 12:11PM
Quote
phantum
Based on comments about the griz's nature and concerns for human interaction, maybe there are locations better suited to conduct this little experiment.

38.889931 °N , 77.008924 °W
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KenS
Re: Sierra Grizzlies Return?
July 20, 2014 04:55PM
The Sunland Grizzly
By the 1920s, California had lost all of its grizzly bears—once considered a distinct species and an emblem of the state.
By Josh Sides

In 1916, Cornelius Birket Johnson, a Los Angeles fruit farmer, killed the last known grizzly bear in Southern California and the second-tolast confirmed grizzly bear in the entire state of California. Johnson was neither a sportsman nor a glory hound; he simply hunted down the animal that had been trampling through his orchard for three nights in a row, feasting on his grape harvest and leaving big enough tracks to make him worry for the safety of his wife and two young daughters. That Johnson’s quarry was a grizzly bear made his pastoral life in Big Tujunga Canyon suddenly very complicated. It also precipitated a quagmire involving a violent Scottish taxidermist, a noted California zoologist, Los Angeles museum administrators, and the pioneering mammalogist and Smithsonian curator Clinton Hart Merriam. As Frank S. Daggett, the founding director of the Los Angeles County Museum of History, Science and Art, wrote in the midst of the controversy: “I do not recollect ever meeting a case where scientists, crooks, and laymen were so inextricably mingled.” The extermination of a species, it turned out, could bring out the worst in people.

http://www.naturalhistorymag.com/features/182751/the-sunland-grizzly
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Jeffrey Olson
Re: Sierra Grizzlies Return?
July 20, 2014 10:39PM
There are Grizzlies in the Wind River Range - many of them wear radio collars. When going into the Absorokas out of Dubois, WY a couple years ago, an ex-backcountry ranger said he'd never go in that country without a rifle because of the prevalence of Grizzlies. The packers we met as we headed up into the Five Pockets area asked if we were carrying weapons and when we said no, they just shook their heads. I could imagine them saying, "Bear bait" as they rode away.

We were hiking out and grizzlie prints were headed the opposite direction on the trail for almost a mile.

We sang more on that trip than any other I've been on...

There are few places in the Sierra that Grizzlies could live and not come in contact with human settlements. They need lots of food, and there isn't much above 9000' is there?

Jeffrey Olson
Arcata, CA
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Ken M
Re: Sierra Grizzlies Return?
July 24, 2014 10:52AM
Great article, Ken S!
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SoCalCPA
Re: Sierra Grizzlies Return?
July 21, 2014 02:19PM
Quote
eeek
Quote
phantum
Based on comments about the griz's nature and concerns for human interaction, maybe there are locations better suited to conduct this little experiment.

38.889931 °N , 77.008924 °W

Moscow, Eeek?
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avatar Re: Sierra Grizzlies Return?
July 21, 2014 02:32PM
Quote
SoCalCPA
Quote
eeek
Quote
phantum
Based on comments about the griz's nature and concerns for human interaction, maybe there are locations better suited to conduct this little experiment.

38.889931 °N , 77.008924 °W

Moscow, Eeek?

I don't think °W hits that part of the world.
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avatar Re: Sierra Grizzlies Return?
July 21, 2014 02:18PM
BTW, bear spray is WAY more effective that a gun:

http://www.fws.gov/mountain-prairie/species/mammals/grizzly/bear%20spray.pdf

Don't carry a gun to protect yourself from a brown bear, it's likely you get you hurt. Carry bear spray instead, it's likely to keep you from getting hurt.
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avatar Re: Sierra Grizzlies Return?
July 21, 2014 09:29PM
I thought bear spray is not allowed in the parks?
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chicagocwright
Re: Sierra Grizzlies Return?
July 21, 2014 10:56PM
Quote
Paris92
I thought bear spray is not allowed in the parks?

Yosemite: no bear spray allowed.

Not sure about Yellowstone and other Lower 48 parks.

Alaskan Parks (especially parks like Denali where fish are not readily available and the bears are more predatory hunters): Bear spray is strongly encouraged.
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avatar Re: Sierra Grizzlies Return?
July 22, 2014 11:29AM
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chicagocwright
Not sure about Yellowstone and other Lower 48 parks.

It's encouraged in Yellowstone.
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avatar Re: Sierra Grizzlies Return?
July 22, 2014 12:28AM
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Paris92
I thought bear spray is not allowed in the parks?

Yellowstone yes; Yosemite now.
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avatar Re: Sierra Grizzlies Return?
July 22, 2014 08:30AM
Correct, Yosemite does not allow bear spray. Since there are no brown bears in Yosemite you don't need it! grinning smiley
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SoCalCPA
Re: Sierra Grizzlies Return?
July 22, 2014 08:40AM
Quote
Hitech
Correct, Yosemite does not allow bear spray. Since there are no brown bears in Yosemite you don't need it! grinning smiley

I've use bear spray in Yosemite before - It keeps my hair in place just fine - I recommend Herbal Essence
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avatar Re: Sierra Grizzlies Return?
July 22, 2014 08:58AM
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SoCalCPA
I've used bear spray in Yosemite before - It keeps my hair in place just fine - I recommend Herbal Essence

I prefer plain old Pantene. winking smiley



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/22/2014 11:36AM by Hitech.
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avatar Re: Sierra Grizzlies Return?
July 22, 2014 03:24PM
Quote
Hitech

Correct, Yosemite does not allow bear spray. Since there are no brown bears in Yosemite you don't need it! grinning smiley


Wouldn't bear spray also be effective if one was attacked by a mountain lion?

.
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avatar Re: Sierra Grizzlies Return?
July 22, 2014 03:46PM
Quote
plawrence

Wouldn't bear spray also be effective if one was attacked by a mountain lion?

Possibly, but since encounters are so rare there isn't much evidence. Mountain lions don't charge like bears do, so effective use of the spray is different. There is a story of a biologist that was tagging mountain lions successfully using bear spray to stop a mountain lion.

Since the encounters are so rare and the chance of misuse is greater than the likelihood of actually needing it I'd side with its ban.
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avatar Re: Sierra Grizzlies Return?
July 22, 2014 08:04PM
Is the ban in Yose due to possible misuse, or other reasons?
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avatar Re: Sierra Grizzlies Return?
July 22, 2014 08:16PM
I do not know, but considering the high volume of people I would think that misuse would be a major concern.
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avatar Re: Sierra Grizzlies Return?
July 22, 2014 08:32PM
I can see it now; a cuddly bear sneaks up on an less than fully attended table in one of the Pines Campgrounds and a masive cloud of pepper spray ensues as site after site takes a bead on the critter. Area hospitals fill with the wounded. Bear escapes unscathed.


Old Dude
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parklover
Re: Sierra Grizzlies Return?
July 24, 2014 01:28PM
Quote
Paris92
I thought bear spray is not allowed in the parks?

Just spent 12 days fly fishing and doing some light hiking in Grant Teton, Glacier, Waterton and Yellowstone and all those parks recommend carrying bear spray so I did. Missed a female grizzly and cub by 5 minutes along the road near Grand Teton Lodge, saw prints while fishing in Yellowstone and the only visual was one grizzly that was in the bushes about 30 feet from the road in Waterton and with the bushes, I could not even see the whole thing. Trails in Glacier and Waterton were closed to hiking because of grizzlies and even though we hike right to the closed areas, we only saw that one along the road.
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chicagocwright
Re: Sierra Grizzlies Return?
July 24, 2014 01:47PM
I wonder if the trail closures were due to a specific incident. In the Anchorage area, the policy is to close a trail for one week after a bear attack. But those are only "enforced" with a sign at the trailhead with notice of the previous bear attack.
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avatar Re: Sierra Grizzlies Return?
July 24, 2014 02:17PM
There are many reasons for a bear closing. In this case it was a dead animal:


http://yosemitephotos.net/main.php/v/yellowstone/sh-pa042523.jpg.html
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parklover
Re: Sierra Grizzlies Return?
July 24, 2014 03:06PM
The trail past the overlook to Hidden Lake in Glacier is closed because bears are feeding on spawning trout in the outlet of Hidden Lake. We did get to see mountain goats just before and at the overlook but really had wanted to go to Hidden Lake itself. I can't remember the reason for the bear closure in Waterton was for but the trail was to a lake you can fish at so it might be the same reason.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/24/2014 03:06PM by parklover.
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Jpsfirstresponse
Re: Sierra Grizzlies Return?
July 31, 2014 12:13PM
No reason to bring everything that is extinct back into the world

Grizzlies were taken out for a reason, ( Personally thanks to the men who came before us)

Man is steward of creation that is why man has the ability to reason and abstract thought unlike animals

Not all people who have guns are crazy, funny when your in danger you call another man with a gun to help (cop, ranger,army), I prefer to protect my self. History shows an armed nation is a safe one

Bear spray is good and a good option but not always better than a gun unless you've never shot before then please use bear spray which I think only makes grizzlies more mad.... Breathe.. Bear spray may work but better to have both in dangerous areas

I enjoy backpacking in the middle of Yosemite alone without worrying of being mauled by a grizzly

Animals are great but it seems like people care more about animals/creation than humans (not all but a lot of save the whales but its cool to kill the babies)

** that's my personal view.... Common ground.. We like nature and enjoy experiencing its beauty.. the rest we can talk about on the trail**
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chicagocwright
Re: Sierra Grizzlies Return?
July 31, 2014 06:23PM
Quote
Jpsfirstresponse

I enjoy backpacking in the middle of Yosemite alone without worrying of being mauled by a grizzly
**

Why would you be worried about being mauled by a grizzly in Yosemite?
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Dearborn
Re: Sierra Grizzlies Return?
July 31, 2014 11:12PM
For the last 20 years, I have engaged in light humor about re-introducing both grizzly bear and wolves to the Yosemite region but you don't deserve that kind of grief. Black bears are potentially bad enough (more in a moment), but the grizzly fears nothing and will stalk, kill and eat anything as circumstance dictates. You generally don't find black bear and grizzly bear in the same locale in Yellowstone - because the griz will kill and eat a black bear. I'm not sure what impact wolves would have in the Yosemite area, but I can readily imagine that you would not like it. The Yellowstone region is now seeing possible indications of wolf packs driving grizzly bear further afield from their recent range - with bad potential for rural residents! I have actually been surprised that Yosemite has not had more black bear/human confrontations. In 1969, I was false-charged by a sow black with 3 cubs at the Indians Caves and by a sow black with 2 cubs at Glacier Point in 1971. I have never forgotten the raw fear those incidents instilled in me at the time and I would not wish that on anyone else.
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Ken M
Re: Sierra Grizzlies Return?
August 01, 2014 09:05AM
Dear,

Your fear and surprise at what black bears do and don't do is due to misunderstanding of the species.....for example, the presence of cubs. You might want to check out this site, put together by the former chief bear biologist for the US Forest Service, and one of the most published authorities on black bear biology:

www.bear.org

And check out the "bear facts" section on black bears.

"Hunters, researchers, and rural homeowners who have encountered hundreds of real bears laugh at the unreality. Bears are not like cats and dogs that bare their teeth when they feel defensive. Bears typically run away, climb for safety, or show harmless bluster with no effort to show their teeth. Instead of baring their teeth, black bears signal that they are uneasy by making the muzzle long and narrow.

Unlike cats and dogs, black bears do not bare their teeth when they feel defensive. They sometimes exhibit harmless bluster like this bear is doing. It is lunging and slamming its front feet down while blowing explosively. Its muzzle is long and narrow, showing it is upset, but it is making no effort to show its teeth. This wild bear was part of a study to learn the meanings of black bear vocalizations and body language and to learn whether blustery behavior was a prelude to an attack or simply an expression of nervousness by the bear. The study showed conclusively that blustery behavior is not a prelude to attack or a sign of aggressiveness. It simply means the bear is nervous. "


"A big revelation to me was how reluctant black bear mothers are to defend their cubs against people, even when the family is cornered in a den and I'm trying to stick the mother with a needle to tranquilize her. Defense of cubs is more a grizzly bear trait. There is no record of anyone being killed by a mother black bear defending her cubs, and attacks are very rare. We routinely capture black bear cubs in the presence of mothers and have never been attacked."
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avatar Re: Sierra Grizzlies Return?
August 01, 2014 09:38AM
Knowing all that, I would still crap my pants if I were bluff charged!
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avatar Re: Sierra Grizzlies Return?
August 01, 2014 09:44AM
If you don't want to get attacked by a grizzly, just wear feathers!

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/08/01/bear-saves-drowning-crow_n_5640384.html?icid=maing-grid7%7Cmain5%7Cdl7%7Csec1_lnk3%26pLid%3D509804
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avatar Re: Sierra Grizzlies Return?
August 01, 2014 10:41AM
Quote
Hitech
Knowing all that, I would still crap my pants if I were bluff charged!

The first time it happened to me was a bit much (underwear survived tough). After that it got a lot easier.
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avatar Re: Sierra Grizzlies Return?
August 01, 2014 10:49AM
I am not the least bit afraid of black bears. But I just can't imagine not screaming "like a little girl" if I were bluff charged and didn't have bear spray handy (I never carry it, BTW). Cry baby

And I can't imagine it getting easier! no, stop, enough!

You da man! Bowing to his greatness
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chicagocwright
Re: Sierra Grizzlies Return?
August 01, 2014 12:01PM
I don't think it is necessary but what is the stated, or unstated, reason for the ban against bear spray in Yosemite? You know, besides a human has never been attacked by a bear. What about other parks or bigger JMT type trips? The worst misuse of bear spray I see hear in Alaska is improper access----too many folks carry it in their packs or otherwise inaccessible spot where it might as well be dead weight because a brown or black bear is not going to wait for you to take your pack off and get your spray out...

I recently had a black bear jump out of a storage box about 20 feet away but he was more scared than I was. He did stop about 30 yards away to size us up and determine whether it was worth fighting us for his food. We scared him off. Later on a giant beaver surprised me and scared me more than the bear!
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avatar Re: Sierra Grizzlies Return?
August 01, 2014 12:19PM
Quote
chicagocwright
I don't think it is necessary but what is the stated, or unstated, reason for the ban against bear spray in Yosemite?

From what I've heard it's just part of the general ban on weapons (and includes people pepper spray as well).
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avatar Re: Sierra Grizzlies Return?
August 01, 2014 01:19PM
Imagine hordes of valley and LYV dwellers carrying around large canisters of bear spray.


Old Dude
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avatar Re: Sierra Grizzlies Return?
August 01, 2014 01:27PM
Quote
mrcondron

Imagine hordes of valley and LYV dwellers carrying around large canisters of bear spray.

Let's not. wink
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chicagocwright
Re: Sierra Grizzlies Return?
August 01, 2014 01:49PM
Bear spray, after expelled, is actually a bear attractant. They like to come and lick it.

Or, as the joke goes:
The Park Ranger at Denali park is advising hikers to be alert for bears and to take extra precautions to avoid an encounter. Park visitors are advised to wear little bells on their clothes to make noise when hiking. The bell noise allows the bears to hear the hiker coming from a distance and not be startled by a hiker accidently sneaking up on them. This might cause a bear to charge. Hikers should also carry pepper spray in case they encounter a bear. Spraying the pepper in the air will irritate a bear's sensitive nose and it will run away. It also a good idea to keep an eye out for fresh bear scat so you'll know if there are bears in the area. People should be able to tell the difference between black bear scat and grizzly/brown bear scat. Black bear scat is smaller and will be fibrous, with berry seeds and sometimes grass in it. Grizzly/brown bear scat will have bells in it and smell like pepper......
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avatar Re: Sierra Grizzlies Return?
August 01, 2014 04:04PM
Quote
chicagocwright
The bell noise allows the bears to hear the hiker coming from a distance

And be ready for a nice dinner?
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avatar Re: Sierra Grizzlies Return?
August 02, 2014 09:44AM
Quote
eeek
Quote
chicagocwright
The bell noise allows the bears to hear the hiker coming from a distance

And be ready for a nice dinner?

Kinda like this?

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parklover
Re: Sierra Grizzlies Return?
August 02, 2014 10:08AM
Quote
Bearproof
Quote
eeek
Quote
chicagocwright
The bell noise allows the bears to hear the hiker coming from a distance

And be ready for a nice dinner?

Kinda like this?


You could be right. LOL Some studies are showing that the bells are actually attracting curious bears and that people wearing them are seeing more bears than people hiking in the same area that aren't. It has been shown that snapping sticks, clapping, singing and talking loudly works better. On a personal note, on this last trip, I was starting to find the bells more intrusive than hearing people talking, singing, etc when I was hiking. You also have to wonder if the constant ringing of the bells habituate the bears to the sound so they no longer will go away, more than the off and on talking and singing - it starts to become like background noise. Not to sound grumpy, but people if you are wearing bells, please take them off when you go inside especially if you are returning to you room late at night.
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avatar Re: Sierra Grizzlies Return?
August 01, 2014 04:03PM
It's better than the singing:


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parklover
Re: Sierra Grizzlies Return?
August 01, 2014 05:55PM
When I was in Yellowstone last week, wearing bear spray on your hip starting looking like some kind of a fashion statement. There were people from bus tours wearing it and you could tell from what they were wearing that they were not even going to put a foot on a trail.
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avatar Re: Sierra Grizzlies Return?
August 01, 2014 08:41PM
Quote
parklover
When I was in Yellowstone last week, wearing bear spray on your hip starting looking like some kind of a fashion statement.

I kept mine inside my jacket so it wasn't visible.
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parklover
Re: Sierra Grizzlies Return?
August 01, 2014 09:47PM
I had it on my hip but sometimes I would wear a shirt on top of my t-shirt and that would hide it.
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KenS
Re: Sierra Grizzlies Return?
August 03, 2014 10:09AM
LA Times: California: The next grizzly habitat? Some want to see it happen
By Julie Cart | Reporting from Three Rivers
August 2, 2014

Black bears are a cherished part of the community here, a woodsy gateway town that funnels tourists to Sequoia and Kings Canyon national parks, where the first question visitors ask of rangers is "Where can I see a bear?"

Local shop owner Cindy Skeen said she often sees black bears around her house, finding them more mischievous than menacing. Has she heard that grizzlies — a larger, stronger and more dangerous cousin of black bears — might be transplanted to California, where they haven't been seen for nine decades? Skeen brought her hand to her mouth. "Oh, I don't know ... people let their kids go hiking by themselves out here," she said. "We get people from L.A. and Orange County and they are terrified of black bears," she said. "And grizzlies….?"

... Finding comparable space may not be possible in California.

Historically, grizzly populations were most dense along the California coast, in the estuaries of big river valleys — the Sacramento, San Joaquin and American — and in San Luis Obispo, Los Osos and the Bay Area.

Those lush tule marshes and coastal valleys offered bears a cornucopia of food at every turn: pronghorn antelope and tule elk, an abundant acorn crop in the fall and plenty of big fish. Fat grizzlies used to roam the Pacific's beaches feasting on washed-up whale carcasses.

But those areas are now dense with Californians.


http://www.latimes.com/local/la-me-adv-california-grizzly-20140803-story.html
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avatar Re: Sierra Grizzlies Return?
August 06, 2014 10:28PM
Quote
KenS
LA Times: California: The next grizzly habitat? Some want to see it happen
By Julie Cart | Reporting from Three Rivers
August 2, 2014

http://www.latimes.com/local/la-me-adv-california-grizzly-20140803-story.html



This is my favorite quote from that article:

“Elsewhere, notably in Alaska and British Columbia, communities live side-by-side with grizzlies, embedding nails and spikes in window and door frames. Residents carefully dispose of trash and rarely step outside without a rifle.

Dave Graber, former regional chief scientist for the National Park Service, has widely traveled in grizzly country and can't imagine Californians adapting the same way.

"Those people are orders of magnitude tougher than we are," he said. "They have incorporated in their worldview a certain measure of risk that most Californians would be horrified by."”

That's right. We, Californians, are soft!

.
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lschaaf
Re: Sierra Grizzlies Return?
August 05, 2014 10:23AM
Quote

Noah Greenwald of the Center for Biological Diversity, which petitioned federal officials to reintroduce the grizzly, said his organization sees the southern Sierra as the best choice in California. His group envisions releasing 300 to 400 bears in the region, a tract of public land with overlapping parks and wilderness areas

That would make the JMT interesting!

Seriously, this will not happen in our lifetime.
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pines
Re: Sierra Grizzlies Return?
August 05, 2014 11:37AM
speaking of the JMT, I recently returned from a great trip that ended with a descent from LYV- only 2 late night bear shows- and was shocked by the lack of (compulsory) bear bells by JMT trailers. also shocked to learn that bear spray is illegal in Yosemite. I wish someone had told me (twice) I could have saved a fortune in cans that I gave away.
Did see a mother and two cubs who were making their way uphill by crossing the switchbacks about a mile from the bridge at the restrooms. she seemed oblivious of the dozen or so people taking photo's from virtually point blank range (it was the one being followed by the coyote, if anyone else reading this saw it).
pepper spray not allowed but firearms are??? how does that work, then? I'm a Brit by the way, so I'm naturally gun unfriendly.
like 'chicago' I~ and probably others too~ are more afraid of fear than of anything else. I have recently been frightened by a falling branch: a falling pine cone (it was big and green and heavy) and the back end of a mule (it was seen through light shade). but never a beaver~ and certainly not one in GA (perish the thought!!) no, stop, enough!
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chicagocwright
Re: Sierra Grizzlies Return?
August 05, 2014 12:17PM
Unfortunately I don't have a picture but the beaver that surprised and scared me ran up through brush and stopped just a couple feet away from me. And he was HUGE. 3-4 feet long, I would guess 50-60 pounds. I was on a narrow sidehill path in his downhill hill path to the water and he EASILY could have run right into me, and knocked me 20 feet down an embankment into the lake. As it happened, he stopped, I stepped out of his path, and he scurried and dived into the water below.

As I read the rules, I thought it said discharge of the bear spray is illegal but not illegal to possess. Or maybe that was the gun...
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avatar Re: Sierra Grizzlies Return?
August 05, 2014 02:06PM
Firearms

As of February 22, 2010, a federal law allows people who can legally possess firearms under applicable federal, state, and local laws, to legally possess firearms in this park.

It is the responsibility of visitors to understand and comply with all applicable state, local, and federal firearms laws before entering this park. As a starting point, visit the California Attorney General's website.

Federal law also prohibits firearms in certain facilities in this park; those places are marked with signs at all public entrances.

Discharging a firearm for any reason is illegal.

:
:
:

Other Weapons
The possession, use, or discharge of pepper spray (including bear spray), pellet guns, and BB guns in Yosemite National Park is prohibited.


http://www.nps.gov/yose/planyourvisit/weapons.htm



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/05/2014 02:07PM by Hitech.
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chicagocwright
Re: Sierra Grizzlies Return?
August 07, 2014 10:12AM
Wow I had not read that article yet.

"embedding nails and spikes in window and door frames".---Really??? I have never heard of this and been out in Bush Alaska a couple times.

"rarely step outside without a rifle"---This is ridiculous. I will admit to buying a rifle recently but it rarely leaves my house. The closest thing to this sentiment I have heard is in polar bear country on the North Slope the oil companies sometimes build caged entry/exits so that when leaving a building you go outside into a caged area and are able to view your surroundings for possible bears. I've read of this being viewed as an excessive safety measure.

"Residents carefully dispose of trash"----Residents are supposed to carefully dispose of trash and there are fines if bears do get into trash that was not taken care of properly.

"Those people are orders of magnitude tougher than we are"--This may be true but I'm still Californian at heart but there is no doubt about the next quote...

"They have incorporated in their worldview a certain measure of risk that most Californians would be horrified by"---This one is absolutely true. There have been three recent bear attacks in the city of Anchorage. Each of the three attacks was a hiker/runner in the woods and often cubs are in the area. There was very little discussion (some of the comments on news articles portray different opinions) about whether the bears should be hunted down and killed. News reports from each of stories quoted Alaska Fish and Game as saying "The bears were acting in their natural state and we do not believe they pose an undue danger." I can't imagine many other places/cities where a hunting party would not be formed to hunt down the offending bear. These attacks do nothing to change our daily life, do not discourage us from continuing activities in the woods, and at most start a discussion about ensuring you are taking prudent measures such as carrying bear spray and being aware of your surroundings while in the woods (i.e. Not listening to music with headphones while running through woods)

Separately, a bear that was killed and hunted was a black bear with two cubs that was frequently seen in populated parks. The bear never showed aggression to people but it kept going back to the trash sources. Alaska Fish and Game finally decided the risk was too high in its frequent close proximity to lots of people, killed the mother, and the two cubs are in the Alaska Zoo waiting to be transported to a Lower 48 zoo.
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phantum
Re: Sierra Grizzlies Return?
August 07, 2014 07:47PM
Bear spray? Damn, all this time I thought it was BEER spray. No wonder that stuff tastes so bad . . .
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avatar Re: Sierra Grizzlies Return?
August 07, 2014 08:40PM
Quote
phantum
No wonder that stuff tastes so bad . . .

Have you tried it on tacos?
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phantum
Re: Sierra Grizzlies Return?
August 08, 2014 06:48AM
Quote
eeek

Have you tried it on tacos?

Yummm --not yet!
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KenS
Re: Sierra Grizzlies Return?
August 22, 2014 05:46PM
Originally published August 21, 2014 at 3:02 PM
Effort to restore grizzlies in North Cascades gets rolling
By Sandi Doughton
Seattle Times science reporter

Nearly four decades after grizzly bears were declared threatened in the Lower 48 states, long-stalled efforts to bring the species back to Washington’s North Cascades are rolling again.

The federal government announced Thursday it will launch an environmental analysis this fall to evaluate strategies to boost bear numbers. Among the options on the table, the most controversial is the possibility of transplanting grizzlies from healthy populations elsewhere.

“This is huge news for the Pacific Northwest and for grizzly bears,” said Joe Scott of Conservation Northwest, which has been pushing to restore grizzlies for 25 years. “This is the turning point.”

Chris Morgan, founder of the Grizzly Bear Outreach Project, said he had tears in his eyes when he heard the news. “These animals have always lived in the North Cascades, and I think they deserve an opportunity to persist and thrive there,” he said.

But not everyone is thrilled about sharing the woods with creatures that can tip the scales at more than 500 pounds, run as fast as a racehorse and wield fearsome teeth and claws.

The species’ scientific name — Ursus arctos horribilis — reflects the terror the bears inspired in early explorers, including Meriwether Lewis and William Clark.
“Grizzly bears are incredible, wonderful animals,” said Tom Davis, director of government relations for the Washington Farm Bureau. “I just wouldn’t want them living next door to me, and I think that’s how farmers and ranchers ... feel.”

The three-year analysis will determine the best approach to restoring grizzlies, and will involve extensive public debate, said Chris Servheen, grizzly-bear recovery coordinator for the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service.



http://seattletimes.com/html/localnews/2024363037_grizzlyrecoveryxml.html
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wherever
Re: Sierra Grizzlies Return?
August 22, 2014 09:55PM
Here's another one. From today's Mercury News:

Honoring the grizzly bear

By Jessica A. York

SantaCruz Sentinel

DAVENPORT — Giant, menacing and effective predators, grizzly bears did not stand a chance of peaceful coexistence in California as the Gold Rush drew human competition by the hordes. By the 1920s, grizzly bears could no longer be found statewide, officials said. “They were really misunderstood. It was something big and something scary, so they were hunted,” said Morgan Dill, California State park interpretive specialist. “It got to the point where the last bear that they say was killed in the Santa Cruz Mountains was in 1880s in the Ben Lomond area.”

In an effort to help rectify the long-past wrongs, Rancho del Oso fittingly holds a family-oriented annual Grizzly Bear Festival. The Big Basin Redwoods State Park’s ranch translates to “bear ranch” in Spanish.

During Saturday’s festival, hikers, vacationers and chance passers-by alike mingled at Rancho del Oso’s visitor center for an opportunity to meet a stuffed grizzly bear on display, put together their own yarn grizzly bear ear headbands, take a guided walk through the woods and compare their size and weight to what a typical grizzly bear looks like. Twin sisters Sara and Alisa Liermo and friend Victoria Bruere, all 11, of San Bruno, worked on creating bear-inspired art with magazine cutouts at the visitor center. The girls were camping with family at nearby Big Basin when a guide directed the group to the bear event.

Sara said she would be “really scared” if she were to come across a grizzly while out on a hike. Her sister added, “There’s no sightings out here because they’ve all been killed, sadly.”.

complete story here:
http://sanjosemercurynews.ca.newsmemory.com/publink.php?shareid=00555e6cf&pSetup=sanjosemercurynews

Personally, I think the idea of returning grizzlies to the California foothills is just plain nuts. "Peaceful coexistence", indeed!
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avatar Re: Sierra Grizzlies Return?
August 22, 2014 10:15PM
If the habitat could be restored to the way it was in 1840 (flora, fauna, and people) then the bears could have some peaceful co-existance. But today???


Old Dude
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Ken M
Re: Sierra Grizzlies Return?
August 23, 2014 11:34PM
I have found an online version of William Brewers "Up and Down California". It really captures the feel of Ca in the 1800's. He says, in the section near Monterey:

"While speaking of animals—the grizzly bear is much more dreaded than I had any idea of. A wounded grizzly is much more to be feared than even a lion; a tiger is not more ferocious. They will kill and eat sheep, oxen, and horses, are as swift as a horse, of immense strength, quick though clumsy, and very tenacious of life. A man stands a slight chance if he wounds a bear, but not mortally, and a shot must be well directed to kill. The universal advice by everybody is to let them alone if we see them, unless we are well prepared for battle and have experienced hunters along. "

" Here a stream was crossed by pulling off boots and wading, and then up a canyon into the mountains. This last I followed as far as I considered safe, for it was just the place for grizzlies, and I kept a sharp lookout."

" We got an early breakfast, and I started in the cool of the morning, with a bag of lunch, compass, canteen of water, and knife, pistol, and hammer in belt. As one is so liable to find bears and lions here, it is not well to be without arms."

http://www.yosemite.ca.us/library/up_and_down_california/
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druid
Re: Sierra Grizzlies Return?
August 24, 2014 11:54AM
I just finished reading Brewer's journal. It does indeed include lots of discussion of grizzlies but in the four years (1860-1864) he spent riding and hiking all around the state he never saw a single one, even though he did a fair number of long solo hikes in remote regions. Perhaps many of them had been killed already and the rest were understandably wary.

That being said, I agree with wherever, the idea of reintroducing grizzlies in California is just plain crazy.
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Ken M
Re: Sierra Grizzlies Return?
August 26, 2014 07:07PM
Interesting, isn't it.

I kind of got the impression that Brewer believed that if he actually saw a Grizzly, it would be about the last thing he'd see. no, stop, enough!
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phantum
Re: Sierra Grizzlies Return?
August 27, 2014 12:32PM
Similar topic in the Seattle Times recently -- http://seattletimes.com/html/localnews/2024363037_grizzlyrecoveryxml.html
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avatar Re: Sierra Grizzlies Return?
August 28, 2014 10:26PM
I was tying to decide what it would be like to hike in Grizzly country.

Is it always in the back of your mind that a phantom bear can jump out of the bush and ruin your life?

Is it stressful?

I wonder if the hyper-awareness distracts from the 'relaxation' of being outdoors?

In trying to compare what in my urban lifestyle would be similar, and I came up with these examples:

Walking anwhere in Naples by yourself

Walking in the far end of Jaffa when the prayer rugs are being laid on the sidewalk

Walking home from school in Hell's Kitchen (before it became gentrified)

I can sort of relate to the 'side-by-side' with grizzlies, now.


The body betrays and the weather conspires, hopefully, not on the same day.
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druid
Re: Sierra Grizzlies Return?
August 28, 2014 11:33PM
Quote
Bee
I was tying to decide what it would be like to hike in Grizzly country.

Is it always in the back of your mind that a phantom bear can jump out of the bush and ruin your life?

Is it stressful?

I don't claim to be an expert by any stretch of the imagination, but I've spent enough time hiking in various parts of Alaska to have seen a couple dozen or so grizzlies. Fortunately, in each case I saw the bear (or bears) well before they noticed me (or us). I've also hiked in Yellowstone and Glacier National Park.

For me, yes, it's definitely a different experience than hiking in the Sierra Nevada.
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avatar Re: Sierra Grizzlies Return?
August 29, 2014 12:28PM
It was always something that was on my mind while hiking in Yellowstone. But not enough to stop me.
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KenS
Re: Sierra Grizzlies Return?
August 29, 2014 10:38PM
I'd be just as worried if a cougar jumped out of the bush and lunged at me.

Teen recovering after cougar attack on Alberta hiking trail
11:25 am, August 27th, 2014
MICHAEL PLATT | QMI AGENCY

CALGARY - It's said there a few sounds in the nature as bloodcurdling as the scream of a female cougar.

Unless, of course, it's the scream of a 19-year-old woman - in which case, even hungry cougars are loathe to hang around.

It was that sound which likely saved 16-year-old Mykaela Belter from a serious mauling or worse after a large cat attacked her along a hiking trail in Waterton Parks in Alberta - only to release and retreat when Belter's sister Gabrielle screamed in horror.

"I gave her a thank you," said Mykaela, who's now at her grandma's house, nursing four stitches and bruises along her thigh and lower back.

The attack has wildlife officials in the national park baffled, because the 90-pound female cougar - since captured and killed - shows no signs of starvation or distress, and the typically shy animal was stalking people in a crowded area.

... Wildlife officers tracked the cougar to the same crowded trailhead where Mykaela was clawed, and ended up destroying it after they found the animal stalking another group of hikers.


http://www.sunnewsnetwork.ca/sunnews/canada/archives/2014/08/20140827-112514.html
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KenS
Re: Sierra Grizzlies Return?
September 27, 2014 10:57AM
Back in 1994, Mark Palmer, then director of the Mountain Lion Foundation, initiated a feasibility study for the reintroduction of the grizzly back to California:

http://www.counterpunch.org/2002/11/08/bring-back-the-california-grizzly/

=========================

Information about the California grizzly bear in Wikipedia:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_grizzly_bear

=========================

Upcoming broadcasts of Glacier Park's Night of the Grizzlies on KQED San Francisco:
KQED Life: Thu, Oct 23, 2014 -- 7:00pm
KQED Life: Fri, Oct 24, 2014 -- 1:00am



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/08/2014 10:19PM by KenS.
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parklover
Re: Sierra Grizzlies Return?
August 30, 2014 12:55AM
Quote
Bee
I was tying to decide what it would be like to hike in Grizzly country.

Is it always in the back of your mind that a phantom bear can jump out of the bush and ruin your life?

Is it stressful?

I wonder if the hyper-awareness distracts from the 'relaxation' of being outdoors?

When we were in grizzly country in July, I didn't find it stressful but I was more vigilant and did take more precautions. I was more conscious of my surroundings especially when there were things that could block my view if a bear was coming or if a bear could not see me coming like bends in trails or vegetation. We also did more talking and making noise than we usually do. I also made sure that when we were fishing that I did not go off too far by myself which I sometimes do in non grizzly areas and I did not fish in areas where there was vegetation that would hide a bear. My son and husband usually hike ahead of me because I can't go as fast as them but when there, we hiked together. I always made sure my bear spray was on my hip and ready to go. And no, it did not distract me from the relaxation of being outdoors. There was only one time that we felt a bit uncomfortable and that was when we were hiking in Glacier in an area of thick brush and trees, a trail with lots of bends in it so we couldn't see very far and there was noise from a river. We whistled a lot of songs to make noise and stayed really close to each other. .



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/30/2014 11:40AM by eeek.
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chicagocwright
Re: Sierra Grizzlies Return?
September 04, 2014 07:14PM
Quote
Bee
I was tying to decide what it would be like to hike in Grizzly country.

Is it always in the back of your mind that a phantom bear can jump out of the bush and ruin your life?

Is it stressful?

I wonder if the hyper-awareness distracts from the 'relaxation' of being outdoors?

In trying to compare what in my urban lifestyle would be similar, and I came up with these examples:

Walking anwhere in Naples by yourself

Walking in the far end of Jaffa when the prayer rugs are being laid on the sidewalk

Walking home from school in Hell's Kitchen (before it became gentrified)

I can sort of relate to the 'side-by-side' with grizzlies, now.

I frequently hike where others have been mauled in the past and it really is not something that distracts me. I carry bear spray, make noise on the trail, and otherwise find other things to worry about on the hike like big river crossings or difficult trails. I usually secretly want to see a bear even when others I am with are a little paranoid.
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KenS
Re: Sierra Grizzlies Return?
September 15, 2014 09:25PM
September 15, 2014 at 11:42 AM
Bear attack in Wyoming kills Utah man
By BOB MOEN

CHEYENNE, Wyo. —

A 31-year-old Utah man doing research alone in a remote backcountry area has died in a bear attack in the Bridger-Teton National Forest in northwest Wyoming.

Officials aren't certain yet what type of bear killed Adam Thomas Stewart of Virgin, Utah.

"I'm assuming grizzly, but we don't have the bear so I can't say for certain," Fremont County Coroner Ed McAuslan said Monday. "At this particular time we're still putting stuff together."

Fremont County Undersheriff Ryan Lee said Stewart was in a remote area checking on a research plot when he failed to return as expected on Sept. 5. He was reported missing on Sept. 7, prompting a search.

http://seattletimes.com/html/nationworld/2024545745_apxbearattack.html

====================

Grizzly bear broke into victim's home before fatal Yukon attack: coroner
The Canadian Press
Published Monday, October 20, 2014 5:38PM EDT

...The Yukon Coroners Service said a family dog alerted the couple that a bear was on the property. The man ran to grab his rifle while the bear went through the window, a news release from the coroners' office said.

The husband and wife ran outside while the bear gave chase and caught the woman. The man managed to kill the animal and get his wife to the closest medical centre.

Claudia Huber, 42, died at the Teslin Medical Centre despite attempts to resuscitate her, the coroner said.


http://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/grizzly-bear-broke-into-victim-s-home-before-fatal-yukon-attack-coroner-1.2062580
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/north/claudia-huber-yukon-woman-killed-in-bear-attack-1.2804980



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/21/2014 07:25PM by KenS.
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phantum
Re: Sierra Grizzlies Return?
September 23, 2014 06:59AM
http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/09/22/us-usa-grizzly-wyoming-idUSKCN0HH2R520140922
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parklover
Re: Sierra Grizzlies Return?
September 24, 2014 03:11PM
Adult and cub foot prints, sleeping depression and deer carcasses in the area - a accident waiting to happen. Poor man looks like he was in the wrong place and the wrong time.
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chicagocwright
Re: Sierra Grizzlies Return?
September 24, 2014 11:23PM
In 2014, New Jersey has had more fatal bear attacks than Alaska.
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parklover
Re: Sierra Grizzlies Return?
September 25, 2014 08:16AM
Just goes to show that you need to be bear aware no matter what kind of bear it is or where you are. EDIT: I just looked at an article on another thread and that was the first death since 1852 so I would not call that statistically significant. There was a woman attacked by a black bear in Carpenteria, CA so my first sentence still stands.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/25/2014 08:28AM by parklover.
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chicagocwright
Re: Sierra Grizzlies Return?
September 26, 2014 11:16AM
In 2014, there have been multiple bear maulings that I know about just in areas I frequently visit. But non of them were killed and I am pretty sure all of them were brown bears (grizzly) and not black bears. I wonder what the rate of death is here of brown bear vs. black bear attack. The adage is to fight a black bear attack but play dead with a brown bear attack.
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KenS
Re: Sierra Grizzlies Return?
September 18, 2014 08:49PM
Interesting accounts of what life was like for the Indians in California when grizzlies were the top predator:
California Grizzly by Tracy Irwin Storer, Chapter 4, Grizzlies and Indians (pg 76 -95)

http://books.google.com/books?id=1QVZFQu01KcC&pg=PA195&lpg=PA195&dq=california+grizzly+storer&source=bl&ots=N6qjXszJq9&sig=PsuNjgPGdnBzbswDFKKLi4U4fzY&hl=en&sa=X&ei=oqQbVIqlBom3ogSBhIHABA&ved=0CFcQ6AEwCw#v=onepage&q=california%20grizzly%20storer&f=false
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avatar Re: Sierra Grizzlies Return?
September 18, 2014 10:04PM
Quote
KenS
Interesting accounts of what life was like for the Indians in California when grizzlies were the top predator:
California Grizzly by Tracy Irwin Storer, Chapter 4, Grizzlies and Indians (pg 76 -95)

http://books.google.com/books?id=1QVZFQu01KcC&pg=PA195&lpg=PA195&dq=california+grizzly+storer&source=bl&ots=N6qjXszJq9&sig=PsuNjgPGdnBzbswDFKKLi4U4fzY&hl=en&sa=X&ei=oqQbVIqlBom3ogSBhIHABA&ved=0CFcQ6AEwCw#v=onepage&q=california%20grizzly%20storer&f=false


This link will take you right to the correct page: http://books.google.com/books?id=1QVZFQu01KcC&pg=PA76&lpg=PA76&dq=california+grizzly+storer&source=bl&ots=N6qjXszJq9&sig=PsuNjgPGdnBzbswDFKKLi4U4fzY&hl=en&sa=X&ei=oqQbVIqlBom3ogSBhIHABA&ved=0CFcQ6AEwCw#v=onepage&q=california%20grizzly%20storer&f=false
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Ken M
Re: Sierra Grizzlies Return?
September 27, 2014 04:29PM
Fascinating and revealing narrative of times past. Thanks for the links!
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