Re: Backpacking in february need help with itinerary !

Hi,

So I'm planning to visit Yosemite in February for 3 days 2 nights, starting from San Francisco. (Without car)

Are there hiking trails in the winter ? I've read there will be snow in February, what can you advise for a 3 day hike itinerary with snowshoes ?
I'm looking a trail where we could start from a point "A" and end to a point "B" where i can take a bus,train back to San Francisco ...
We won't have a car and we will overnight in or own tent, I've read on the website I will need a Wilderness permit for that, how can I get one if I'm living in Belgium ?


Thank you

Dimitri

(sorry for my bad English)

It will take you most of the day to get from San Francisco to Yosemite on a bus. And they don't have a lot of different drop-offs points in Yosemite. If you've never been to the park, and you only have one solid day (the middle day) and portions of two other days and no local transportation, I would suggest that you simply spend the time getting to see and know Yosemite Valley itself. The park is huge, but most of it is about 2500 meters, and will be covered in a meter or more of snow in February. Go to to the visitor center to get oriented and learn about the geology, flora, fauna, and native America elements.

Take the shuttle to Happy isles and hike up the Merced River to see the falls.

Take the shuttle (or hike the horse trail from there to Mirror Lake, then hike up the Snow Creek Trail as far as you want to see above the trees...and a great view of Half Dome.

Hike up the Yosemite Falls Trails for great views.

If you are dead set on backpacking ( and I am not sure how much gear you are going to bring in the airplane with you---tent, sleeping bag, pack, snowshoes, cooking stove...which they may not allow on the plane!) you could hike up Yosemite falls, and then take the North Rim trail east, to come back down Snow Creek. But if there has been a recent snowfall,. that's a long hike in deep snow for the time you have allowed. The shuttle will take you to both trailheads on a regular basis.

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Check our our website: http://www.backpackthesierra.com/
Or just read a good mystery novel set in the Sierra; https://www.amazon.com/Danger-Falling-Rocks-Paul-Wagner/dp/0984884963

I would not recommend North Rim from Yose Falls to Snow Creek for someone
who has not done it in summer... with snow.. it will take them 2 days ...
imo... to go from Yose Point to Snow Creek ... and w/o trail experience in
summer... it will be VERY difficult... and there is some Av danger imo... if
they try getting on Indian Ridge...
obvious my opinion... but have done from Pt to Ridge in winter...

Anywho... for poster... take bus to Yose Valley and explore valley...
there is more than enough to do in Valley... with hikes up
as pointed out... and simply camp in Camp 4... or get a Curry
tent cabin... bring your sleepy bag and such...

That's my 2 dollars worth... please ask more if you like
Regards,

---

Yep--As per my initial post, I would stay in the Valley and enjoy it. But if you have lots of alpine experience (in Switzerland, not Belgium!....

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Check our our website: http://www.backpackthesierra.com/
Or just read a good mystery novel set in the Sierra; https://www.amazon.com/Danger-Falling-Rocks-Paul-Wagner/dp/0984884963

Thank you for those advices. I will be prepared ... snowshoes, warm sleeping bag 4 season tent ... i have quite experience with Norway but never as much snow as a saw on pictures.
I was thinking is there any hiking trail that i could combine starting from the Valley, hike up to see some amazing views and make a loop to end back in the valley without coming back on the same trail if you see with i mean ? So i could sleep in my tent with a nice view and ending back to the valley and take the bus back to SF.

I saw those posts and the pictures i saw were exactly what i'm looking for, this makes me dream !!

http://yosemitenews.info/forum/read.php?17,82638,82782#msg-82782
http://yosemitenews.info/forum/read.php?17,82398,82571#msg-82571

Do you think i could experience this in 3 or maybe 4 days ? Without a car starting from SF how many days would it take me ?
Otherwise as you advised i will overnight in the Valley and start early in the morning for hikes.

Thank you for you time

Seems you burn 2 days ... two pretty much full days... getting to and from Yosemite from SF.
Investigate here:
http://www.nps.gov/yose/planyourvisit/publictransportation.htm

Quickly looking... in February... mid-week... Greyhound... Merced at 2:35pm .. then YARTS ... Yose Valley at 8pm
Fun..

Didn't do the reverse... took me couple minutes to do above...

Anywho. Yeah, um... Do not be intent on doing a loop... not in the time and conditions you have...
please

If it were me... I would try to be as minimalistic as possible... and only bring maybe a Jetboil stove
or like... and a really good sleeping bag... and just stay in Curry...
Arriving at 8pm... having to setup a tent in Camp4 and all... without knowing... may be a pain
in the rump... and prolly just annoying to anyone nearby... but what do I know?
So... yeah... I'd rent a 4WD and just drive in 140...
I'd hike up Yosemite Falls trail with microspikes... and come back down it...
I'd hike up Snow Creek to rim... and come back down it...
I'd hike up to Clark Pt... and come back down... maybe up to Nevada Falls... and back down...
Do those... and be VERY happy...
The links you provided... those trips originate from Badger Pass...
I would not recommend that to anyone that has never been to Yosemite.

I wish you the best. Have fun planning

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Seems like you are getting pretty consistent advice here. The trips from Badger Pass won't give you many views at all until you get right to the rim of the Valley.

In the Valley, the views are non-stop in just about every direction. And if you've never been there, you should not miss that.

---

Check our our website: http://www.backpackthesierra.com/
Or just read a good mystery novel set in the Sierra; https://www.amazon.com/Danger-Falling-Rocks-Paul-Wagner/dp/0984884963

A will follow your advices and explore the Valley !

I'm starting from SF on 21 February "Sunday" with Greyhound to Merced CA arriving 2:35pm change and take Yarts arriving 8pm set up camp ... and ready for Monday 22 ! (what kind of temperatures can be expected overnight ? )
I stay until Wednesday so two full days, do you think this is enough to enjoy the valley and the beautiful views of Yosemite ?

Basically these are my options ? Which trails would you definitely advice for those 2 days ? Knowing that I'm looking for stunning views

http://www.nps.gov/yose/planyourvisit/valleyhikes.htm
http://www.nps.gov/yose/planyourvisit/loader.cfm?csModule=security/getfile&PageID=294491


PS: i was wondering if i will get the chance to see sequoias or they are completely somewhere else ?

THANK YOU

Average Temperatures, Yosemite Park HQ. February's average low is 28 (Fahrenheit, the US hasn't joined the civilized world on this point yet), you can click a graph for extremes (along the left-side pane, click Daily Extremes and Averages) and see record lows around 10 F or so by mid-late Feb. I'd be prepared to enjoy lows of 20 F and survive colder. In an average year the coldest February day is 18 F (click Monthly Temperature Averages - Extreme Minimum on the left).

Note that the Park HQ is on the north (sunnier) side of the valley, not far from Camp 4. The south side of the valley (near Curry) will be colder. You're getting considerable cold air drainage into the valley and the south side doesn't see much sun.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 01/12/2016 02:04PM by ttilley.

Glad to hear you are going to stay in the Valley! Chick-on, Basilbop and I all agree best bet. ESPECIALLY since you have not seen it. We seem to never tire of the views!

My advice for any of walking/hiking during winter, carry traction devices like Kahtoola Microspikes.

At minimum, I would try to do The Eastern Valley Loop trail - Lower Yosemite Falls (definitely walk to the base of the falls) to Mirror Lake, (you should at least go to Mirror Lake and look up at Half Dome and beyond! There is an unpaved path around the lake if reasonable for snow conditions and your gear) and to Happy Isles (check out the islands), maybe walk to Lower Vernal Fall bridge, back around as far as you want. If you are doing this end of the loop and want more challenge - go up the Snow Creek Trail on the north side of the Mirror Lake loop trail above treeline for more views.

The views change as you walk around the Valley. There is the official undulating Valley Loop "trail" basically hugging the wall, but there are paved biking/walking paths (possibly under snow) that parallel and are not hilly, but offer different perspectives on the views of the valley walls.

Walk around the meadows on the boardwalks and paths. Look around! The free valley shuttle bus can ferry you around, if you want to jump around a bit.

There are so many little paths in the Valley, it can take days to wander them all if you are soaking in the views. In fact, Chick-on and I are finishing off little bits and pieces that he has somehow neglected over the years.

You can also walk the Valley Loop trail towards the western end of the Valley past El Capitan, over the Pohono Bridge, past Bridalveil Fall. Over Thanksgiving, Basilbop and I did that one day (about 11 miles) and the next day the eastern loop hitting Mirror and all... another 14 miles the way we did it.

If, after getting a good dose of the valley in a day, you really want a more vertical hike rather than wandering in the Valley, I'd suggest going up past the Lower Vernal Fall bridge up the JMT to Clark Point. If you want, continue on the winter route down to the top of Vernal Fall and up the side of Nevada Fall. But that's gonna take some time with snow.. and you only see a part of the valley, but it's gorgeous too. You really can't lose on views no matter what you do. It's a matter of preference as to what you'd rather see at any particular time.

Guess it depends on what elements of the Valley speak to you... Nothing wrong in my book spending two days walking all around the valley floor! Enjoy!

As for sequoia, there are younger trees in the Valley in various spots... but the really big groves of really big trees... well, the Mariposa Grove is off limits right now. Kings Canyon and Sequoia National Parks (both to the south) have the REALLY big groves of huge trees. Tuolumne Grove is nice and Merced Grove is cute. But both are along Highway 120 and need private transport, I think, unless YARTS is running by there.. but even then, with your schedule... come back some other time to visit the sequoia groves! And, IMO, they are WORTH visiting! (I'll be in Sequoia again President's Day, to do just that!)

Thank you for all those informations, I will now take the time to plan and choose the trails Can not wait to explore Yosemite !!!

Just a few questions?

Are the trails marked in the winter ?
You think i will need snowshoes,micro-spikes or just hiking boots will do the work ?
A sleeping bag of -8°C comfort temperature will be enough warm ?
What about bears in the winter ?

Quote
Trooper
Are the trails marked in the winter ?

Not all trails are marked/blazed/signed well no matter what the season. The "winter" trails which are supposed to be marked are mostly in the Badger Pass area off Glacier Point Road and off Highway 120 in the Crane Flat area. Both areas, I think have been ruled out for your short trip this time around. Generally, popular trails are relatively obvious because of cut logs, old blazes and wear on the ground. In winter, good luck. In fact, on our latest trip, the few markers we saw were so close to the ground, the snow was almost covering them, and if this wet winter weather continues, they will be covered soon! Yay!

However, in the Valley, the network of paved paths and "trails" are usually obvious because of use by other people who (usually) *know* where the trail goes. There are no special winter signs *in* the Valley. But I think it's rather hard to really get lost in the Valley... and given the time you have, you really should hit the popular spots.. they are popular for a reason!

One way to enhance play and exploration is to have a GPS. Though you can use dedicated GPS units, another simple way is to use a smartphone and a GPS app that does the trick.

I'll give you an example for iPhone users: For Valley use, you could keep it simple with Maplets and get the geo-referenced Yosemite National Park map that has a layer for the Valley Map and then you'll know where you are in relation to other popular areas. You can locate yourself using GPS ON the map, which makes it more useful than just the paper map for first-timers.

Heck, I'm not nearly a first-timer and I use it with the winter Cross-Country ski/snowshoe maps for Badger Pass and Crane Flat in conjunction with Gaia GPS (a full-blown GPS app) and detailed USGS maps. The USGS maps don't show the winter snow course ski/snowshoe trails which don't always correspond to the trails marked on the USGS map.

Quote
Trooper
You think i will need snowshoes,micro-spikes or just hiking boots will do the work ?

For valley:

• Snowshoes - NO
• Micro-spikes - YES
• Hiking shoes - YES - Waterproof hiking mids or boots - Depending on conditions, you'll find even if you plan on staying in the Valley on pavement, you might encounter a lot of slush. Wet, soupy, dirty slush. Deep.

Quote
Trooper
A sleeping bag of -8°C comfort temperature will be enough warm ?

I'd say for regular nights that will work, depending on what else you wear with it. I have a 15 degree F quilt, but I wear a down jacket and down pants to bed with it, and currently in a tent with other body heat to help. The Valley is sometimes unconscionably cold, so be prepared with warm gear.

Quote
Trooper
What about bears in the winter ?

I'd still worry more about rodents getting into your food if you leave it in a bag. If you stay at Camp 4 or Camp Curry and plan on using their bear lockers.. be aware, some of them have holes/gaps allowing mice to get in and nibble. So having a mouse-proof container to put IN the bear locker (at minimum) would be a good start. We always carry our bear cans.

What she said!

Seriously... I highly recommend... if haven't done w/o snow... you had better carry
a GPS or be VERY good with map and compass! .. (in winter you really don't
want to have to search around) ... you want to just bomb straight to where
you want to end up more or less...
Try to stick to trails others have been on... thus my original advice above...
There is MANY FEET of snow on the Rim now... and if you don't know where
the trail is sorta... then... good luck... the signs are all under snow now...
and the cut logs and blazes can be too...
Where is the trail?

(MLK Day)

So nice...

Have fun
Be Safe

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When are we going to see the trip report for this trip? ?

Impatient much? :-) The trip report publication schedule usually is:

First night after trip: backup and upload raw/unprocessed pictures and video (5-10 GB)
Second night: select, process (unless I'm lazy), and upload "curated" pictures to Google/Picasa
Third night: write TR, hand off to editors/proofreaders, and publish
Fourth night: pack for next trip!

haha I look forward to them! They get me excited for future trips!

Where are you guys planning on going next?

Would also add that most of the bear boxes might have a ton of snow on em! Had to thaw the locking mechanism to open it at camp 4!

We had to use a shovel last weekend to get access to a box to stash some stuff last weekend. Luckily, the latching mechanism wasn't frozen!

Hi, a few questions before i go ...

Can I use a Tentsile tent "Tree tent" in Camp4 ?
Is there any danger with bears in the park, I read that in the winter there is less risk to encounter a bear ?
Still a lot of snow ? Any accurate website where i could check the weather ?

Thanks

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Trooper
Is there any danger with bears in the park

Other than having your food stolen just don't try petting one.

Quote

I read that in the winter there is less risk to encounter a bear ?

Yep.

Quote

Still a lot of snow ?

Yep: http://cdec.water.ca.gov/snow/current/snow/pillowplots/TuolumneMerced.html

Quote

Any accurate website where i could check the weather ?

http://forecast.weather.gov/MapClick.php?lat=37.74859981600048&lon=-119.58842564699972&site=all&smap=1#.Vr-ewefgGEI

Click on the map to move to other spots.

Quote
Trooper
Hi, a few questions before i go ...

Can I use a Tentsile tent "Tree tent" in Camp4 ?

I'd be hesitant to do this. The rangers are VERY protective of the trees. If you do try it make sure to pad the trees so that there is NO chance of damage.

Quote
Trooper
Is there any danger with bears in the park, I read that in the winter there is less risk to encounter a bear ?

Usually the bears are just a afraid of you as you are of them. Bears are very smart however,and if people are careless with their food the bears will learn to associate humans with an easy source of food. The solution, ensure you aren't a food source for the bears! Anything with a scent of any kind should go in the bear box. Not in the car or tent. Leave NOTHING in the car at night. They know what a ice chest or backpack looks like, if they see it in the car they'll break into the car.
Be Bear Aware!
What to do if you see a bear.
Bears and Food Storage video
The odds of encountering a bear in winter are greatly reduced, but you should take the same precautions as you would in summer.

Quote
Trooper
Still a lot of snow ? Any accurate website where i could check the weather ?

Thanks

The webcams will give you an idea of what conditions are like at the moment.
Yosemite Webcams
For a 7 day forecast try he Hanford NOAA site. Its nice because it lets you click for a spot forecast.
Hanford NOAA for Yosemite Valley

Your sleeping bag should be plenty warm, make sure you have a good ground pad and some nice dry clothes to change into. I usually carry a bear canister even in winter. It makes it easier to snack during the night i would carry some kind of microspikes for extra traction. When we did mirror lake a couple weeks ago, there were some icy spots that could have ended badly if I wasn't paying attention and carrying trekking poles. If you stick to the valley and other these other areas mentioned above, you should have some footprints to follow. Good luck and have fun! Make sure and share when you return!

We've been walking the Valley Floor for several weekends in a row now before backpacking trips, and microspikes are a great idea period! If the trail gets packed down, it can turn hard and slippery. Very handy to have traction devices! snowshoes on the other hand, are not really needed IN the valley, too many people walk without them..

Now.. I WISH folks had used snowshoes on the Yosemite Falls trail! We had to take ours off and go down in microspikes and the path cut by the walkers was super narrow with a great risk of post holing off the middle. Grr. Would have been so much easier with snowshoes!

And I'm going to be very clear. I'm not kidding. Kahtoola Microspikes or something at least as toothy! And even then, it was tough carrying a pack now weighed down even more with snowshoes! Grrr.

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JustKeepWalking
Heck, I'm not nearly a first-timer and I use it with the winter Cross-Country ski/snowshoe maps for Badger Pass and Crane Flat in conjunction with Gaia GPS (a full-blown GPS app) and detailed USGS maps. The USGS maps don't show the winter snow course ski/snowshoe trails which don't always correspond to the trails marked on the USGS map.

Using the same Gaia GPS and maps, do you think its safe to snowshoe from Dewey Point to Taft Point through the Pohono Trail? Any major risk taking this route in winter (never done it before)?

thanks!

Quote
jvieiram

Quote
JustKeepWalking
Heck, I'm not nearly a first-timer and I use it with the winter Cross-Country ski/snowshoe maps for Badger Pass and Crane Flat in conjunction with Gaia GPS (a full-blown GPS app) and detailed USGS maps. The USGS maps don't show the winter snow course ski/snowshoe trails which don't always correspond to the trails marked on the USGS map.

Using the same Gaia GPS and maps, do you think its safe to snowshoe from Dewey Point to Taft Point through the Pohono Trail? Any major risk taking this route in winter (never done it before)?

thanks!

Safe? Yes. I would say the only "gotcha" is to make sure you cross Bridalveil Creek at the trail bridge--otherwise you may have difficulties crossing said creek. But won't you be on the trail...?

Not necessarily. Don't expect to be able to follow the trail unless it's been recently broken--which would be very unlikely. By now all the trail junction signs are under snow and what blazes may exist are ancient and hard to see. It may even be hard to see cut logs and other signs of the trail by now.

FWIW JKW, The Great Pink One, and I did the Pohono from Taft to Dewey earlier this season--several feet of snow ago. It was still possible to follow the trail then, but even so it was slow going. I could easily see it taking a long day--or more--to get from Dewey to Taft via the Pohono. It will almost certainly be faster to follow the road and the marked ski trails. But the Pohono will be more scenic.

Good luck and have fun!

Quote
jvieiram
Using the same Gaia GPS and maps, do you think its safe to snowshoe from Dewey Point to Taft Point through the Pohono Trail? Any major risk taking this route in winter (never done it before)?
thanks!

I don't know the specifics as I haven't been in this area in winter yet, unlike some other people in this forum. You might want to read about cornices and be mindful of those. Same for Avalanche zone, as some routes leading up to Sentinel dome might have avy risk (depends on recent weather patterns, terrain, and current conditions etc.).
Be safe n have fun!

Great, thanks basilbop!

In your opinion, would be easier to go from Taft Point to Dewey via the Pohono, or the other way? Our plan is to do the loop, starting from Badgers Pass>Glacier Point>Sentinel Dome>Taft Point>Dewey Point>Badger Pass (or the inverse).

And another question, do you think I should be fine with Gaia GPS app and maps/compass, or its better to have a specific handheld GPS?

thanks!

I don't think it will matter at all which direction you go: Taft to Dewey or Dewey to Taft. Most of the elevation gain/loss is dropping down to and climbing back out of Bridalveil Creek. Also, the snow itself will have a much bigger impact on the difficulty of the trip than any elevation gain/loss. I think the Glacier Point road is a bit more scenic heading towards Glacier Point since you (eventually) get views of the Clark Range. Also, it you are beat walking along the road, you may want to re-think slogging through deep snow along an unbroken route.

The Pink One carries a dedicated GPS, but I don't think it's significantly better than a modern phone. The dedicated units may track a wee bit better, but I think as long as you keep the phone located where it has a decent "view" of the sky you should be fine. I put my phone either in the top of my pack or in a pocket on the shoulder strap. JKW keeps hers in a front pants pocket and that seems to work fine. I wouldn't try to stick to the trail exactly as it is on the map--first of all, the map isn't accurate in several places, and second, it may be easier to just go where the snow and terrain look OK. The only place you have to be on trail is at the Bridalveil Creek bridge--and the map has that accurately marked.

Can vouch for the phone gps! Been using mine for snow travel and its been a great tool. Seems to be as accurate as the gps in my inreach SE. I just use it though to determine position on a map and use a compass/topo map from there to navigate to points.

Any difference in battery life for phone vs. standalone?

Using mine with a compass + map every 400 meters or so, I generally can get about 4.5 days of use out of it. But that is if I'm bushwhacking in an area I don't know.

The longest I've gotten out of it was on a 7 day trip in oregon. Mainly used it every hour or so and used the compass the rest of the way. I also leave the device on battery saver mode (lumia 635) so it doesn't track where I go. Only tracks when I turn on the screen.

I've had an etrex and foretrex before and would get maybe about 3 days out of it. Could be because I had the tracking feature interval set to 5 secs...somewhere around there.

I personally prefer using the phone as I can load caltopo maps on it. Makes it a whole lot easier to figure where I am on a topo map since the gps map is the same!
If you need help setting it up and getting maps, I can make a tutorial later this week.

-Kevin



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/03/2016 04:10PM by KevinD.

Quote
KevinD
I personally prefer using the phone as I can load caltopo maps on it. Makes it a whole lot easier to figure where I am on a topo map since the gps map is the same!
If you need help setting it up and getting maps, I can make a tutorial later this week.
-Kevin

Hi Kevin, wondering what app do you use on lumia to access caltopo or is it more like importing gpx to nokia here or google maps? I have a spare lumia 635 that I bought around the holidays after hearing about it from basilbop.cheers


Update: just found this online How to install topo maps on smartphones



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/05/2016 12:46AM by nwhkr.

I have heard of Gaia and some people love it. I personally use Maloo and download maps to it using a software on the PC. If I want to mark trails, I just do it on caltopo and export the gpx/kml file and send it to the phone. If you're interested in it I can show you.

I was like you and bought the Lumia 635 after basilpop brought it up in the REI thread haha. It's been serving me awesome! Spare batteries are cheap so I have a few when I go on trips just in case.

-Kevin



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 02/05/2016 01:28AM by KevinD.

I have the iPhone 6S Plus now. I was using the 6 Plus for the year prior.

Now that iOS allows you to be in airplane mode and be able to use the GPS, I burn about 20% battery life on full summer hiking days- 20+ miles of trail, 8-10 hours of *constant* GPS tracking using GaiaGPS. I look at it for reference several times/day. Even though I've tested it and pushed into that 5th day of juice, since I carry a backup battery, I ended up using it to ensure a complete track.

If I read books or peruse maps or play with the phone at night on the camp, I'd have to top off more frequently.

I upgraded my external battery packs (different capacities depending on length of trip and number of devices I need to feed) so that they provide 2.4 A power for high-draw devices, like the 6S Plus. Which means my charge times are blissfully fast.

Might be a dumb question....but you guys carry a snow shovel while camping out there? Think I need it? Just wondering due to extra weight...

And again, thanks for all your help!

We carry a Snow Claw. I wouldn't use one to build an igloo or other snow shelter, but for making a flat spot for a tent or digging down to the soil for a cathole in the Sierra it's fine. I think it would be hard to dig an effective cathole without one.

I used to carry around an MSR avalanche shovel but forgot on one trip and decided to buy the snow claw at the REI in fresno. Fits PERFECT in the mesh pocket on my osprey pack. Also very lightweight and does a great job of digging out a cathole or luxury snow kitchen. Also makes for a great snow stack too!

Highly recommend it if you aren't traveling a lot in avalanche-prone areas.



-Kevin



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 02/03/2016 04:13PM by KevinD.