Re: Wildernes Permit rules, when do they end?

My buddy got a wilderness permit for the May Lake trailhead. The website asked him for an exit point so he selected "Happy Isles". I am very familiar with the park and don't need a trail map to get from May Lake to the Valley but my question is "How can this be legal?"

If you look at the map, the on-trail route goes straight through the Sunrise trailhead. If you did that you'd invalidate the permit because you exited the wilderness at not just an incidental road crossing but at a major trailhead. My understanding is this would not be allowed.

But I can think of routes that avoid the Sunrise trailhead, certainly, any cross-country (off-trail) route could do this but I doubt they issue permits assuming cross-country travel.

The usual destination from May Lake would be either Glen Aulen or Ten Lakes. If someone were to look at our permit (many times you do see rangers parked a mile up the trail, especially popular ones like Sunrise.). Would he say that going to Sunrise on a May Lake trailhead permit is "gross abuse
of the system?" I'd have to agree with him.

My buddy is totally new to Yosemite and just got whatever the website allowed. He said he selected "happy isles" pretty much at random. I think the website software was just too dumb to say "This is not right".

What are the rules about this? It seems unfair to start at one trailhead you don't really like and then walk directly to the trailhead you like and do the hike. If that is OK. Heck, we may do Lyell Canyon from May Lake, it only adds one extra day

I've always thought that walking through a trailhead ended the Wilderness Permit.

Passing through Yosemite Valley ends your permit. See https://www.nps.gov/yose/planyourvisit/wildregs.htm.

Passing out of wilderness per se, e.g. by crossing Tioga Road or Glacier Point Road, does not end a permit.

Not sure I agree with NQTG here - if it was that easy to circumvent the trailhead quotas we'd all be one the trail to Clouds Rest & HD from Sunrise all year haha.
A ranger will tell you if you cross 120 your permit is over. I actually tried this a few years ago & got turned around.

I like the argument though - next time I'm headed for Lyell on a Murphy Creek permit!

Sorry CNEWT, NQTG is right.

Nothing in the Wilderness Regulations, or on a permit refers to the HWY 120.
In fact the JMT actually crosses the 120 twice, and the PCT crosses it once.
Those people still have valid permits.
I'm calling your bluff on any ranger saying if you cross the 120, your permit is over.

Oh, BTW I've had multiple permits from Sunrise to clouds rest and HD, after all they are on the same side of the 120.

ChrisA,

The issue from May Lake is not whether or not you cross the 120, its whether or not you spend the first night in the proper area.
Some trailheads specify a required first night camping location (e.g., Happy Isles to Little Yosemite Valley) or that you camp before or beyond a certain point.
So its true that you cannot "start at one trailhead you don't really like and then walk directly to the trailhead you like and do the hike".
However it is legal (outside of the valley) to start at a trailhead you do not like, spend a night, and then hike to the trailhead you do like and continue.

Look at the Trailhead Map, If you start at May Lake TH, camp the first night legally past May Lake, and then head towards Sunrise and happy isles.

Exactly. On your first day, you have to go in the right direction, at least the distance shown on the map https://www.nps.gov/yose/planyourvisit/upload/wildernesstrailheads.pdf, and spend your first night there. Afterward, go wherever you want, as long as you don't cross Yosemite Valley, which ends your permit. If you couldn't get that Sunrise trailhead permit you wanted, but you've got the time and energy and are a fast enough hiker, you can start, say, at Porcupine Creek, and the next day make your way via Snow Creek over to the Sunrise lakes. I think the assumption of the powers-that-be is that most people do not have both the time and the energy to do the extra hiking.

Also note the the HSC loop involves crossing Tioga Road twice: on the leg between May Lake and Sunrise, and on the leg between TM (or Vogelsang of blessed memory) and Glen Aulin. Crossing 120 is a non-issue.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 05/05/2024 03:14AM by Not quite The Geezer, but getting there.

I wanted to bring up a hypothetical case to see what others think of it.

Say you had a permit for May Lake TH. You start in the morning, hike up to May Lake, keep going on around past Polly Dome Lakes and down to the Murphy Creek TH, cross the Tioga Road, and then continue along to the Sunrise TH, which you follow for four trail miles to get to a legal camping spot. Your total travel for the day would be a bit over 11 miles, so this is definitely doable (and probably even easy for those younger and in better shape than me!). But are you complying with wilderness regs?

My opinion is that, while the above route might not violate the letter of the wilderness permit regulations, it does violate their spirit. I thiink the intent of the regulations is that you hike at least the distance specified on the Wilderness Trailhead map, and that any additional miles you cover on day 1 of your trip should be taking you further into the wilderness, not back to any other trailheads. After a night of camping in the wilderness, you are perfectly free to turn around or hike out another direction to a different trailhead (not within Yosemite Valley, of course) and continue your trek from there.

Fatflatlander,

I would say if you spend 1 night between the May Lake and Murphy Creek Trailheads, then you are 100% in compliance.
But if you start at May LAke TH, push past Murphy Creek TH on the same day, then you arguably violate the spirit of the regulations, which state:
"Some trailheads specify a required first night camping location (e.g., Happy Isles to Little Yosemite Valley) or that you camp before or beyond a certain point."
For example, it is improper to spend the first night in Little Yosemite Valley if you have a Glacier Point to Illiloutte (3b) permit. But if you spend the first night along Illilouette creek, then you are guilt free allowed to spend the second night at LYV.
So under your hypothetical, it would be safe to stay between the Arrows leaving from May Lake or Murphy Creek.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/07/2024 03:11PM by Coolburn.

I agree with you, Coolburn. And I would argue that in the hypothetical, once you cross over Tioga Road and start heading up from the Sunrise Lakes TH on that first day, everything you did until that point becomes irrelevant - it's as if you just started on the SLTH that day, viz. on the wrong trailhead. And I'd bet that if you set up camp at Sunrise lakes, and a ranger asked to see your permit, you'd get fined. spend the first night between May Lake and the Murphy Creek TH and you're ok. And from there, on day 2, you can cross over to Sunrise.