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Re: Stereo View from Inspiration Point

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avatar Stereo View from Inspiration Point
January 30, 2011 04:30PM
Found this at the Library of Congress:


From Inspiration Point (E.N.E.) through Yosemite Valley - showing Bridal Veil Falls, El Capitan, Sentinel and Half Dome - California c1902.
http://www.loc.gov/pictures/collection/stereo/item/2002705613/
Re: Stereo View from Inspiration Point
January 30, 2011 07:30PM
Thanks for the stereo image. Love it! I had to make it smaller before my eyes could manage the stereo.
avatar Re: Stereo View from Inspiration Point
January 31, 2011 10:41AM
Wow! Thanks!

Follow that link and search for Yosemite. Great great stuff.

Check this one out:
http://www.loc.gov/pictures/resource/cph.3c36266/?co=stereo

Right there... just below is the Nevada Falls Hotel.
Re: Stereo View from Inspiration Point
January 31, 2011 11:20AM
Wow! 1902 eh...awesome record.
avatar Re: Stereo View from Inspiration Point
January 31, 2011 01:12PM
After doing three ctrl - strokes I got this small enough to do it. Very, very cool image.



http://www.flickr.com/photos/dqniel/
avatar Re: Stereo View from Inspiration Point
January 31, 2011 05:05PM
Dang... I just love these...

So much I snaggled a bunch of them so far.

http://picasaweb.google.com/yosemite.chick.on/Stereographs

(click on slideshow and then hit F11 to see it big... )

Esp. like the Moran Pt. one (there used to be a trail out to it..) and
the one up Indian Canyon looking at Pinnacle Rock which I'm pretty
certain is Arrowhead Spire.
avatar Re: Stereo View from Inspiration Point
February 02, 2011 07:32PM
Is this from the Four Mile Trail?

avatar Re: Stereo View from Inspiration Point
February 02, 2011 09:57PM
Quote
eeek
Is this from the Four Mile Trail?

Yes sir



Chick-on is looking at you!
Re: Stereo View from Inspiration Point
February 03, 2011 05:38PM
Quote
chick-on
Quote
eeek
Is this from the Four Mile Trail?
Yes sir

Well, in 1901, it would be the old alignment of the Four Mile Trail (when it really was 4 miles long). It was rebuilt in 1929 to it's current length of 4.7 miles. I'm not sure how different the two alignments are and it's a few years since I hiked up the Trail but I don't recall anything quite so "close to the edge" on the modern trail as what's shown in this picture.

According to Linda Greene's "Yosemite: the Park and its Resources":

The old abandoned trail parallels the present one up the talus slope below Sentinel Rock. It begins on the valley floor about fifty yards east of the present trail and proceeds via five switchbacks to the base of Sentinel Rock, which it avoids by swinging 1,300 yards to the east. After another 200-yard swing to the west, the oldtrail enters another series of switchbacks to avoid a short rock-filled chimney at an elevation of 1,200 feet above the floor. From there to Union Point is another irregular series of zigzags, turning to the east and southwest, a prime example of Conway’s engineering competence. Union Point is 2,314 feet above the valley floor, and from there one can see Yosemite Fall, Half Dome, North Dome, El Capitan, Cathedral Rock and Spires, and the Big Oak Flat and Wawona roads. The trail continues in several long, gentle switchbacks to an elevation of 7,000 feet. There it squeezes east under and over precipitous granite cliffs, emerging within sight of Glacier Point’s overhanging rock. Then the early-day hiker followed a level stretch of trail and made the last climb of a 100-yard rise to Glacier Point.

--David
Re: Stereo View from Inspiration Point
February 04, 2011 06:50PM
The two places I know of where the old alignment of the Four Mile trail is still somewhat visible are:

- From just before the second gate to Union Point (heading up). The old trail took a more direct route up, passing near now-occluded Agassiz Column (the subject of another thread on this forum). Several rock walls can be seen from the new trail between the second gate and Union Point. The place where it used to leave the new trail heading up--essentially right where the new trail takes a sharp right turn just before the second gate--used to be somewhat obvious, but the brush has since mostly obscured it. I haven't seen any sign of it near Union Point, but the brush is even thicker there.

- Below the final long traverse to Glacier Point. Heading down from Glacier Point the place where the old trail leaves the new is still obvious--it is before the blasted out section. (Another old trail climbed up from just below the blasted out section to Sentinel Dome...)

Both of the old sections and the Sentinel Dome trail above (and the Sierra Point trail) are on the old govnernment Yosemite Valley topo--the one with the brown-orange cover with the Matthes geologic information on the back.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/04/2011 06:57PM by basilbop.
avatar Re: Stereo View from Inspiration Point
February 06, 2011 09:34AM
Quote
basilbop
Both of the old sections and the Sentinel Dome trail above (and the Sierra Point trail) are on the old govnernment Yosemite Valley topo--the one with the brown-orange cover with the Matthes geologic information on the back.

Is this avail online somewhere? elsewhere?

I think there was also a trail out to Moran Pt. at some pt. in time. Seem to recall seeing that on an old map too.

The trails in the park are constantly being "upgraded" and re-aligned here and there over the years
for various reasons. (same is true for JMT/PCT)



Chick-on is looking at you!
Re: Stereo View from Inspiration Point
February 06, 2011 01:03PM
This is the closest I could find online: https://store.usgs.gov/yimages/PDF/CA_Yosemite_Valley_1970_45934_&_45933.pdf (warning: this is a 50mb download). This map seems to have only the old alignment of the Four Mile Trail just below (west of) Glacier Pt., but it also has the Union Point comfort station, both segments below Union Point, the Sentinel Dome shortcut from the Four Mile Trail, and the Sierra Point trail. (Oddly, it also has the Yosemite Wilderness boundaries, which didn't exist until 1984.)

Based on old maps, the Moran Point trail seems like it would have followed the new Four Mile Trail north of Union Point, then continued past the first swithcback. I do remember a faint use trail continuing in this direction, but many switchbacks on popular trails have similar informal trails...
avatar Re: Stereo View from Inspiration Point
February 06, 2011 02:28PM
You are awesome. Thanks! Thanks! Thanks! That maps shows all kinds of goodness.
Both the new and old part by Union. The stuff up to Sentinel from 4 Mile (done some of that).
And the portion of trail to the waterworks (whatever has talked about this).

<edit> sorry, I repeated some of what you already said...



Chick-on is looking at you!



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 02/06/2011 03:02PM by chick-on.
Re: Stereo View from Inspiration Point
February 06, 2011 05:38PM
Quote
basilbop
This is the closest I could find online: https://store.usgs.gov/yimages/PDF/CA_Yosemite_Valley_1970_45934_&_45933.pdf (warning: this is a 50mb download). This map seems to have only the old alignment of the Four Mile Trail just below (west of) Glacier Pt., but it also has the Union Point comfort station, both segments below Union Point, the Sentinel Dome shortcut from the Four Mile Trail, and the Sierra Point trail. (Oddly, it also has the Yosemite Wilderness boundaries, which didn't exist until 1984.)

Based on old maps, the Moran Point trail seems like it would have followed the new Four Mile Trail north of Union Point, then continued past the first swithcback. I do remember a faint use trail continuing in this direction, but many switchbacks on popular trails have similar informal trails...

This is truly a great map. In addition to all the stuff that you have mentioned, it shows the location of Snow's Hotel, which was due east of the Emerald Pool and at the base of Nevada Falls. It also shows the Old Coulterville Road from Foresta down to the valley floor near the Cascades.
Re: Stereo View from Inspiration Point
February 06, 2011 06:44PM
Quote
wherever


This is truly a great map. In addition to all the stuff that you have mentioned, it shows the location of Snow's Hotel, which was due east of the Emerald Pool and at the base of Nevada Falls.
Which spot indicates the hotel?

avatar Re: Stereo View from Inspiration Point
February 06, 2011 07:18PM
It's the little square to the upper right of the 5 in 5305.
As bill-e-g mentioned above you can see the hotel
in one of the stereo-thing-a-dings:
http://www.loc.gov/pictures/resource/cph.3c36266/?co=stereo



Chick-on is looking at you!
avatar Re: Stereo View from Inspiration Point
February 06, 2011 07:41PM
Quote
chick-on
It's the little square to the upper right of the 5 in 5305.


... quote the dyslexic chikin.
(AstutelyObservantly Yours)
The Marmots
avatar Re: Stereo View from Inspiration Point
February 06, 2011 08:38PM
Ooops... the other right.



Chick-on is looking at you!
avatar Re: Stereo View from Inspiration Point
February 08, 2011 08:14AM
Other interesting items include:
- Old alignment of El Cap trail near Ribbon Meadow (old trail has superior views IMO)
- Old trail heading S near Panorama Pt.
- Additional trail heading to spring source by Clouds
- Old trail by Ft. Monroe
Just a great map...

The old road from 140 to Foresta used to be on the map they gave at the entrance,
marked as a trail.

I'm scanning the one I have and will put it up... haven't found that one online yet...



Chick-on is looking at you!
Re: Stereo View from Inspiration Point
February 08, 2011 01:41PM
Quote
chick-on
Other interesting items include:
- Old trail by Ft. Monroe

Interesting...the map calls that the Pohono Trail but it's not the current alignment (the current alignment turns SE at about 119.69205 W longitude but this map, as nearly as I can tell, has the trail turning SE at 119.69547. Fort Monroe was the last horse changing station on the old Wawona Road before descending to the Valley so the Pohono trail must have followed the old road for a little ways beyond Inspiration Point at that point rather than continuing in a more-or-less straight line from where it hits IP after coming up from the Tunnel View parking lot the way it does today. For that matter, this map doesn't even show the Pohono Trail coming straight up from the parking lot...after it hits the old Wawona Road, it takes that up to IP. I don't recall reading about a post-70's realignment of the trail but this map certainly seems to suggest that one occurred sometime between 1970 and 1992 (the dates of the two maps I'm comparing right now).

I've really gotta get some software that makes it easy to overlay these maps on top of one another for this kind of comparison. (Anybody got any suggestions? Especially when you have the maps as PDF's?)

I really can't wait to get my butt out to California full time...I'm so jealous of you folks that can say "Let me take a run out there this weekend and get a closer look" (of course, I'm also VERY grateful that at least some of you post such detailed records of these "weekend runs!"winking smiley ).

--David
avatar Re: Stereo View from Inspiration Point
February 08, 2011 02:13PM
Quote
DavidK42
I've really gotta get some software that makes it easy to overlay these maps on top of one another for this kind of comparison. (Anybody got any suggestions? Especially when you have the maps as PDF's?)

You can load PDFs in gimp. Just put both maps into their own layers and adjust the scales so they match.
Re: Stereo View from Inspiration Point
February 08, 2011 02:20PM
Quote
eeek
You can load PDFs in gimp. Just put both maps into their own layers and adjust the scales so they match.

Thanks, eeek...downloading it right now! It even fits with my current "policy" of using open-source software whenever possible. smiling smiley

--David
Re: Stereo View from Inspiration Point
February 08, 2011 10:21PM
Another source of "historic" topo maps (unfortunately in a format that requires downloading a clunky viewer to see): http://alabamamaps.ua.edu/historicalmaps/us_states/california/topos/15index.htm. The accuracy of some of the trail locations on these is questionable, but there is still some good stuff, such as several now-abandoned trails in Sequoia NP.
avatar Re: Stereo View from Inspiration Point
February 22, 2011 03:35AM
Quote
basilbop
Based on old maps, the Moran Point trail seems like it would have followed the new Four Mile Trail north of Union Point, then continued past the first switchback. I do remember a faint use trail continuing in this direction, but many switchbacks on popular trails have similar informal trails...

Nope. You can't get to Moran Point from that section of the Four Mile Trail unless you want to repel down a cliff.

The topo maps leads to this confusion, but Moran Point is only about 1000 feet above the Valley floor, and not really accessible from the Four Mile Trail. To reach Moran Point from the Valley one would need to hike up the gully/wash from behind the Sierras Club LeConte Memorial Lodge. Or one could take the old Ledge Trail from Glacier Point and break off from that trail to reach Moran Point.

The official GPS coordinates for Moran Point are: 37.7365925, -119.5815530 (http://goo.gl/1ecr8).

One can view the spot on Google Maps (where the green arrow is located): http://goo.gl/A1F8g
avatar Re: Stereo View from Inspiration Point
February 22, 2011 08:31AM
Quote
plawrence
Quote
basilbop
Based on old maps, the Moran Point trail seems like it would have followed the new Four Mile Trail north of Union Point, then continued past the first switchback. I do remember a faint use trail continuing in this direction, but many switchbacks on popular trails have similar informal trails...

Nope. You can't get to Moran Point from that section of the Four Mile Trail unless you want to repel down a cliff.

The topo maps leads to this confusion, but Moran Point is only about 1000 feet above the Valley floor, and not really accessible from the Four Mile Trail. To reach Moran Point from the Valley one would need to hike up the gully/wash from behind the Sierras Club LeConte Memorial Lodge. Or one could take the old Ledge Trail from Glacier Point and break off from that trail to reach Moran Point.

The official GPS coordinates for Moran Point are: 37.7365925, -119.5815530 (http://goo.gl/1ecr8).

One can view the spot on Google Maps (where the green arrow is located): http://goo.gl/A1F8g

I dunno... I'm not buying it. I've never seen a map or anything showing it E of the gully S of LeConte Memorial.
Been on the ledge trail... and if they wanted to name a Pt there... IMO they would have named the JUST below
the turn on the Ledge Trail.
Here's a map that shows it w/ elevation:

and


and (but not really much help):
http://www.yosemite.ca.us/library/yosemite_valley_place_names/

Also seen a map with it right ON the Four Mile/Glacier Pt. trail.
Even the map they give out NOW shows Moran W of the Gully and v. close to 4 Mile Trail.

Other questions I have is:
Would the real LeConte Gully please stand up.
and
Wold the real Panorama Pt. please stand up.

My answers to those are:
- LeConte Gully is the gully N of Grizzly coming up from HI
- Panorama Pt. is just E of the trail right on the Pan. Cliff... not the "peak" 7007
(GNIS lists it as 7007 but... I dunno about that one either... doesn't make any sense...
I think it's one of those map makers boners)



Chick-on is looking at you!
avatar Re: Stereo View from Inspiration Point
February 22, 2011 10:58AM
Quote
chick-on
Quote
plawrence
Nope. You can't get to Moran Point from that section of the Four Mile Trail unless you want to repel down a cliff.

The topo maps leads to this confusion, but Moran Point is only about 1000 feet above the Valley floor, and not really accessible from the Four Mile Trail. To reach Moran Point from the Valley one would need to hike up the gully/wash from behind the Sierras Club LeConte Memorial Lodge. Or one could take the old Ledge Trail from Glacier Point and break off from that trail to reach Moran Point.

The official GPS coordinates for Moran Point are: 37.7365925, -119.5815530 (http://goo.gl/1ecr8).

One can view the spot on Google Maps (where the green arrow is located): http://goo.gl/A1F8g

I dunno... I'm not buying it. I've never seen a map or anything showing it E of the gully S of LeConte Memorial.
Been on the ledge trail... and if they wanted to name a Pt there... IMO they would have named the JUST below
the turn on the Ledge Trail.
Here's a map that shows it w/ elevation:

and


and (but not really much help):
http://www.yosemite.ca.us/library/yosemite_valley_place_names/

Also seen a map with it right ON the Four Mile/Glacier Pt. trail.
Even the map they give out NOW shows Moran W of the Gully and v. close to 4 Mile Trail.


Yet, the official GNIS entry states otherwise. This determination was made originally in 1932. So I don't understand the discrepancy it and the newest map. Note that the famous Moran Point photograph by George Fiske appears to be near the spot that I listed The Domes - From Moran Point (Yosemite Valley). I was able to somewhat confirm this view using Google Earth.

Also, why on the newest map of Yosemite that the Park Service hands out to visitors did the Park Service decided to remove Union Point from it?
avatar Re: Stereo View from Inspiration Point
February 22, 2011 11:15AM
Quote
chick-on
Quote
plawrence
Quote
basilbop
Based on old maps, the Moran Point trail seems like it would have followed the new Four Mile Trail north of Union Point, then continued past the first switchback. I do remember a faint use trail continuing in this direction, but many switchbacks on popular trails have similar informal trails...

Nope. You can't get to Moran Point from that section of the Four Mile Trail unless you want to repel down a cliff.

The topo maps leads to this confusion, but Moran Point is only about 1000 feet above the Valley floor, and not really accessible from the Four Mile Trail. To reach Moran Point from the Valley one would need to hike up the gully/wash from behind the Sierras Club LeConte Memorial Lodge. Or one could take the old Ledge Trail from Glacier Point and break off from that trail to reach Moran Point.

The official GPS coordinates for Moran Point are: 37.7365925, -119.5815530 (http://goo.gl/1ecr8).

One can view the spot on Google Maps (where the green arrow is located): http://goo.gl/A1F8g

I dunno... I'm not buying it. I've never seen a map or anything showing it E of the gully S of LeConte Memorial.



Even the map they give out NOW shows Moran W of the Gully and v. close to 4 Mile Trail.

But even the newest maps the Park Service hands out (Rev. 2008) that omits Union Point, shows Moran Point a bit more southeast than the color map that you posted.

Here's the link to the newest Park Service map of Yosemite Valley: 2008 NPS Yosemite Valley Map

I think that the current park managers of Yosemite don't have a real clue where the actual Moran Point is.
avatar Re: Stereo View from Inspiration Point
February 22, 2011 11:58AM
Note from this Carleton Watkins stereograph:



And this photo by George Fiske:



that one should be able to determine if they are at the classic Moran Point depicted in these two photos, since Moran Point points east with distinctive rock formations on the left and another ridge to its right and the ravine between the two ridges in the center that points directly into Tenaya Canyon.
avatar Re: Stereo View from Inspiration Point
February 22, 2011 01:30PM
Quote
basilbop
Here's a map that shows it w/ elevation:

That map appears to be the most informative of where the real Moran Point is. Playing with Google Earth some more, I think you are right (and the official GNIS location is wrong).

Here's an image that I got from Google Earth using these new GPS coordinate: 37.735155, -119.584188

At that location, you'll get a view of something like this:



smiling smiley
avatar Re: Stereo View from Inspiration Point
February 22, 2011 02:42PM
Good stuff. Thanks for looking more. Between "working" I was looking at my Ledge Trail photos
and other stuff and just saying "I don't think so...".

Here's the view from Union Pt. which is about the same elevation and looks eerily similar to the Moran Pt. photos:


Thanks again. I wanna go find the Pt. now (ok, not now... but someday soon).

Chick-on is looking at you!



Chick-on is looking at you!
avatar Re: Stereo View from Inspiration Point
February 22, 2011 03:35PM
Quote
chick-on
Here's the view from Union Pt. which is about the same elevation and looks eerily similar to the Moran Pt. photos:

Your photo looks eerily similar because Union Point lines up with Moran Point and Tenaya Canyon. So your camera is pointed in the same direction and your shot shows the same nearby ridge line on the left (albeit father away) as the classic Moran Point shots.

That black & white 1954 Yosemite Valley map you posted upthread shows the location of Moran Point the best, and shows that there was a short .2 mile spur trail to it.
avatar Re: Stereo View from Inspiration Point
February 22, 2011 03:52PM
Here's a really good map that should put the question to rest:
http://gisserver.princeton.edu:81/navigatorMapViewer.htm?map=911

(and thanks to basilbop again for the links to lots of these maps!)

I need to email Princeton again and ask how to buy these babies... they're soooo good...

btw... if you look at that map it also has the correct location of Panorama Pt.
(NOT Peak 7006/7)

Have fun



Chick-on is looking at you!
avatar Re: Stereo View from Inspiration Point
February 22, 2011 04:04PM
Quote
chick-on
Here's a really good map that should put the question to rest:
http://gisserver.princeton.edu:81/navigatorMapViewer.htm?map=911

Access Denied.
avatar Re: Stereo View from Inspiration Point
February 22, 2011 04:17PM
Quote
eeek
Quote
chick-on
Here's a really good map that should put the question to rest:
http://gisserver.princeton.edu:81/navigatorMapViewer.htm?map=911

Access Denied.

Interesting, I had no problem accessing the map. I suggest that you try again.

If you still have problems, I would suggest checking your browser's security settings.
avatar Re: Stereo View from Inspiration Point
February 22, 2011 04:21PM
Quote
plawrence
Quote
eeek
Quote
chick-on
Here's a really good map that should put the question to rest:
http://gisserver.princeton.edu:81/navigatorMapViewer.htm?map=911

Access Denied.

Interesting, I had no problem accessing the map. I suggest that you try again.

If you still have problems, I would suggest checking your browser's security settings.

It's not the browser. I normally go through a squid proxy and it didn't like port 81.
avatar Re: Stereo View from Inspiration Point
February 22, 2011 04:29PM
Looking at the Princeton map of Yosemite, it shows the old alignment of the Four Mail Trail after it descends past Union Point heading toward the Valley. On the Princeton map, the beginning (first-half) of the spur that leads to Moran Point appears to be now part of the modern Four Mile Trail alignment past Union Point.
avatar Re: Stereo View from Inspiration Point
February 22, 2011 04:57PM
Quote
plawrence
Looking at the Princeton map of Yosemite, it shows the old alignment of the Four Mail Trail after it descends past Union Point heading toward the Valley. On the Princeton map, the beginning (first-half) of the spur that leads to Moran Point appears to be now part of the modern Four Mile Trail alignment past Union Point.
This is effectively what basilbop said above I believe.
Take a look at the 1970 map pointed to by basilbop again. (link is also below on this site - USGS Yosemite Valley)
It's a great map. Have fun

Within a few months I'll post the modern day pict. of Moran Pt. (unless someone beats me to it..)



Chick-on is looking at you!
Re: Stereo View from Inspiration Point
April 04, 2011 03:47PM
Oh wow. Love the 3D terrain effect. I wonder if Google Maps has it yet in "street" or terrtain view
avatar Re: Stereo View from Inspiration Point
February 03, 2011 02:54AM
"From Inspiration Point (E.N.E.) through Yosemite Valley - showing Bridal Veil Falls, El Capitan, Sentinel and Half Dome - California c1902."

What is E.N.E.?
avatar Re: Stereo View from Inspiration Point
February 03, 2011 04:30AM
Quote
qumqats
What is E.N.E.?

Isn't it east northeast?
avatar Re: Stereo View from Inspiration Point
February 03, 2011 07:10AM
Quote
eeek
Quote
qumqats
What is E.N.E.?

Isn't it east northeast?

Yes sir



Chick-on is looking at you!
avatar Re: Stereo View from Inspiration Point
February 03, 2011 11:59AM
qumqats does not do crossword puzzles



Old Dude
Re: Stereo View from Inspiration Point
March 26, 2011 11:42PM
Awesome images thanks. I have always wondered what it would have been like back then. Luckily, the park has been preserved so development has not been 'that bad.'
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